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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: rappstar on January 03, 2010, 02:09:00 PM

Title: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: rappstar on January 03, 2010, 02:09:00 PM
I purchased some of the inexpensive Beaman arrows from 3Rivers a few months ago and I've been dinking around with them.  I was down in the basement shooting a few minutes ago.  I drew the arrow and released...then the lower limb jumped up, the arrow went about 8 feet over the target into a concrete wall and there was a very noticeable TWANG after my arrow had left the bow.

I picked the arrow up and it was missing the nock.  I've looked my bow over and didn't see any noticeable damage.  I finally found the nock and it wasn't cracked either.  I then put the nock back into the arrow and noticed that the shaft cracked at the nock.

The black easton nocks that came with these arrows fit VERY tight into the shaft.  So tight that its difficult to rotate the nock to get the cock feather where I want it.  

Would the nock fitting too tight into the arrow be the cause of the shaft cracking?  Has this happened to anyone else?

Thanks for your input!
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: George D. Stout on January 03, 2010, 02:15:00 PM
It maybe cracked with they put the nock in and didn't get noticed.  Crap happens.  Any carbon or fiberglass arrow can get a split in it and that can cause issues.  Examine them all as best you can before shooting.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: xtrema312 on January 03, 2010, 02:27:00 PM
I shoot Beman arrows.  My nocks fit tighter than the ones in my GT's.  They make a lot of noise when I rotate them and I need a tool.  I have never had a problem.  The Beman nocks I use are very durable. They will take a hard hit and not break.  Are you sure you didn't get a hard hit and crack the shaft at the nock? Like George said, check them out and keep an eye on them.

BTW what cheap shafts are they?
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: rappstar on January 03, 2010, 02:32:00 PM
Thanks guys...the shafts are the ICS Bowhunter shafts.  

I'll keep my eye on them!
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: sdpeb1 on January 03, 2010, 02:36:00 PM
Could of the string come off the nock a little and when you realeased this caused the damage? What's the poundage of your bow? -Steve
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: Earl Jeff on January 03, 2010, 02:40:00 PM
Make sure you flex them before shooting. I had a very bad experience while stump shooting last year with Beman ISC Hunter shafts that required the removal of four slivers of carbon shaft from my hand.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: rappstar on January 03, 2010, 02:56:00 PM
sdpeb1,

I guess anything is possible, but those nocks fit so tight that I doubt it came off/loose prior to release.

I could have also came off after impact with the concrete wall....Don't know for sure when the nock left the shaft.  

All I know is the shaft is has several small cracks at the nock end on one side of it.  

I'm shooting a BW that draws around 72-75lbs.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: George D. Stout on January 03, 2010, 03:16:00 PM
Well I would really hate to hit a concrete wall travelling at probably 180+ feet per second.  I reckon I would get a few more splits in my rearend as well 8^).
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: Jim Picarelli on January 03, 2010, 03:17:00 PM
A 29" Beman Bowhunter shaft only weighs out to around 410gr w/125gr point...pretty lite arrow(about 6 gpp) for that kind of draw weight
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: rappstar on January 03, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
No doubt George!

Jim - The arrow weighs 690gr.  The shaft alone is over 8gr per inch.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: xtrema312 on January 03, 2010, 03:47:00 PM
Good shaft for the $.  I have shot them for years.  I have broken a few.  Just blew one up a couple days ago in the frozen ground.  Also had one with a little splinter on the side.  I caught that only because it was dragging on my rest.  All my breaks have been way down the arrow.  Never at the nock unless hit by another arrow.

What Beman bow hunter shaft is 8 gpi and can take a 70+ # bow?  I think that is the weight of the 400.  I wouldn't think a 400 would take what you are shooting.  You are probably shooting a 300 at over 9 gpi.

Any chance you could have bounced a nock part way out and they slammed it back in on the shot?  Are you using weight tubes to get all that weight.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: rappstar on January 03, 2010, 04:01:00 PM
xtrema312 - No weight tubes, just brass insert & steel adapter and 160gr point.  

I'm shooting the 300...I thought it was just north of 8 gpi.

Anyways, something happened that wasn't good.  I un-strung my bow and really looked it over.  It looks fine.  

So I guess I don't know whether the shaft was cracked prior to the shot or if it cracked on release.  Either way, it was pretty spooky.  I guess the good news is that I didn't totally dry fire my bow.

I don't shoot groups so another arrow didn't hit this one.  

I'll keep my eye on the shafts.  I always flex the shaft after each shot but never thought to flex the nock around a bit to see if the nock end is cracked.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: wingnut on January 03, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
My guess is the shaft was cracked.  You need to examine the carbons and flex them.  Also give them a slight twist to make sure it hasn't cracked.  The older bemans were bad for that.

I've seen defective carbon shafts shatter in bows.  Usually not a good outcome.

Mike
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: bentpole on January 03, 2010, 05:25:00 PM
I had a half dozen Beman classics  that came with bad nocks. Seems a whole batch from the factory was bad after 2 near dry fires I replaced them. Problem solved. If I remember they were lime green?
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: dpowers311 on January 03, 2010, 05:31:00 PM
When shooting carbons you should check for cracks before every shot I was always told. It is usually at the nock that you will find there is a small crack. The crack you found after hitting the wall could have been caused by hitting the wall. Not sure what happend with your shot.

Dave
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: Deadsmple on January 03, 2010, 06:11:00 PM
I'm a little confused why most replies are focused on the arrow. I know we all want to be helpful, but sometimes we can do more damage by jumping to conclusions without getting the full story. I saw nothing in the original description that would indicate any problem with the arrow. Actually the description sounded more like there was a problem with the shot.  
QuoteOriginally posted by rappstar:
  I drew the arrow and released...then the lower limb jumped up
Why did the lower limb jump? Did the string catch some clothing or some other object to interfere with the shot? Have you shot this bow again since the incident?
Carbons are not indestructible. Hitting a concrete wall at those speeds never results in much good.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: TSP on January 03, 2010, 07:52:00 PM
I've had problems with carbons of various brands...cracked shafts at both the nock end and behind the insert, nocks coming completely off the shaft during flight, nocks breaking on release, feathers coming off (I don't use wraps), etc.  It's happened often enough that I have little confidence in them.  Aluminum and wood might break or bend with a hard hit but at least they don't self-destruct in flight, lol.  There's more to arrow reliability than just impact resistence.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: foxbo on January 03, 2010, 08:05:00 PM
I epoxy a small piece, 3/8", of aluminum shafting over the carbon at the nock end and foot the front end with another piece of aluminum shafting, 1 1/2". Makes the shaft much stronger. I use the Axis 500s and 400s mostly and never had a problem.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: huntindad on January 03, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
I think Deadsmple is on it! The description on first post sounds like the string or the limb caught something at the shot which sometimes affects the sound and feel of the shot as well as its impact.JMHO. Bill
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: NDTerminator on January 04, 2010, 02:06:00 PM
Had a Browning Graphlex blow up upon release with a compound back in the mid 80's.  Not much left of the bow and it was an interesting trip to the ER...

That really colored my view of carbons even to this day.  I consider them sneaky, disingenuous projectiles that will not warn you before they go south on you.

I much prefer alums, particularly with my recurves.  Alums at least have the common decency to visibly bend, kink, or crack, thus giving some warning...
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: Paul Mattson on January 04, 2010, 02:17:00 PM
A loose fitting nock is a good indicator that the shaft is cracked.  Hitting a concrete wall will crack the nock end 99.9% of the time.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: blind one on January 04, 2010, 02:25:00 PM
I broke the end of a carbon shaft by hitting the peg(spike) that was holding the target on the straw bale before. I was told that the force of solid impact flexed the shaft hard enough that when it flexed back the nock was coming out and cracked the end of the shaft.....Roy
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: waknstak IL on January 04, 2010, 02:38:00 PM
I agree with Badger on this one. A lot of times when you hit something hard the nock pops out and sometimes the back end splits. I'm not smart enough to know exactly why, but have seen it happen a lot.
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: rappstar on January 04, 2010, 02:46:00 PM
Thanks everyone for your input.  The concrete wall happened to be the thing that stopped my arrow.  The point is that something happened upon release and the suspect is the cracked shaft at the nock end.  

Nothing interfered with the bow itself during the shot (i.e. hit a pant leg or something).  I'm not a great shot but I don't miss my target by 8 feet and my bow doesn't torque the way it did on that shot!   :)

I was curious if this had happened to someone else and what might have caused the nock end to crack if the arrow hadn't hit anything hard in its life.  I was curious if a super tight fitting nock on the shaft would add stress during release and accelerate a failure.  

To Wingnut's point, the shaft was probably cracked before I shot it.

Thanks again everyone!
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: ChuckC on January 04, 2010, 04:03:00 PM
Not being funny here.  Look at your ceiling, did you by chance hit it with the top limb tip of your bow upon release ?  I have done it twice and the reaction of the bow is identical to what you described.  I have also broken nocks on release (also Beeman) and although it was a dry fire it did not do as you described.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Carbon Arrow Failed on Release
Post by: huntindad on January 05, 2010, 12:53:00 AM
ChuckC that is EXACTLY what I thought!Bill