Trad Gang

Well, as I've already posted I've started making my own flemish strings, getting the hang of it.
Now the problem I seem to be having is serving the darn things.
I had bought the BCY Bearpaw serving tool @ Gander Mtn., served one string with it but didn't like it because it was, IMO, too heavy. The weight of it would cause it to droop if I flipped it too hard, and if I tried tightening it up it was TOO tight and wouldn't spin freely without twisting the string while trying to serve with it.
Took that back and traded in for a Bohning serving tool. I find that I CANNOT get a good setting on it. I have two settings: too tight or too loose-nothing in between. When it is too tight the TINIEST loosening of the tension screw then allows it to droop.
Is there some trick to adjusting this #$@%?   :help:

try teflon washers instead of the cheapos that come with it.

Thanks AkDan, I'll give that a try. I've been fighting this #$@% for the last hour trying to serve my string. Another problem with it is as I try to spin it around the string I will hit the wing nut and it's all of a sudden TOTALLY loose and drops to the floor!

Kinda like swinging a hoola-hoop,there's an art to it(LOL).I have the same troubles,I sometimes give up and do it one turn at a time.Takes longer but still gets it done.
Good luck-Ray.

What I do with all my serving tools is I replace the bolt with one about a 1/2" longer.Then went to the hardware store and got a small round spring and put it between the wing nut and the server body.This will help you keep tension on the wing nut,not to tight or too loose and the serving tool doesn't become loose as you are serving the string.It makes it easier to maintain proper tension,the wing nut doesn't get loose as you serve and is not too tight,works great on my serving tools.

Great idea John!!
What I have done is sandwich a lock washer between a couple of steel flat washers on the wingnut side and it gives me much more control of tension.

As you may know as you use more serving off of the spool and the spool becomes smaller you will need to lighten up a little on the tension.

A small piece of cardboard works,just cut it like a washer.

I love reading thread like this one, being new to trad Archery, you guy's save me a lot of head aches.

Thank for sharing

Tim,
tried that. Tried TWO of them, no joy.
John,
sounds like that just might work. Going to Home Depot!

I use Cajun serving tools--got 50 or so.  I replace the bolt with a longer one and add a few fender washers for a little extra weight.  They are dang near bomb-proof (still using my first ones)and the tension is more adjustable than any I've used.  They aren't the cheapest, but aren't too expensive either.

I have always used the Serve Tite jig and don't have any problems. I have had the same one for 20+ years. Just tighten or loosen the wing nut and adjusts tension easily.

Chad,
thanks for the info, I checked into one of those, looks better than this Bohning piece of.....errrr.....plastic.    :bigsmyl:   I'll pick one up-found it for as low as $12.44-including a spool of serving. Actually less than what I paid for this one.


John,
thanks for that tip. Yep, that worked! Had to buy an assortment kit of springs to get what I needed-$3.97-but I had an assortment of springs to try. I also replaced the washers that came with it with some nylon ones as AkDan suggested. Of COURSE I couldn't find the right bolt, hadda go with a 1/4 x 3.5 one in place of whatever metric size the original one is. The head doesn't fit in the recess, but with the spring pressure it seems to be holding OK.

Dan,
then I must have a lemon, because that's the same model I'm having trouble with. I am not exaggerating - it is (or was until I did what John suggested) either totally locked or totally loose, nothing in between!  If I DID manage to get it set where it WOULD have acceptable tension I'd get two or three turns before I bumped the wing nut and watched it unspool to the floor-it only took LESS than a 16th of a turn for it to go from locked to loose.

Now that I THINK it's going to work gotta go make up another string!

Thanks for all your inputs. Been a big help.    :thumbsup:

that model you have is like the older bjorn..actually exactly alike...I think the bjorn is about 1/16 of an inch wider.  It's kind of a built in spring.  The outfeed on it's bigger..I had to use a hot needle to open up the opposite side.   The washers on the bjorn are also teflon but much much thinner then what I could find locally so far, adding to that spring effect by making the sides have to move more before they contact the spool.  

I'll have to try that spring idear..that's a helluva idea.  

That new red one has been nothing short of frustrating for me also.   Great serving tool..and they did a great thing increasing the outfeed side hole to a much bigger diameter.  The tool needs to be a touch wider and come with better washers and it'll work great.  Unfortunatly it's made in china so that'll likely never happen.

Chad got me using the serve tite servers for a little while also.  They were ok, I didnt like them as much as I liked my bjorn.  To many adjustments lol.   I need to make a trip to Chado's to have him school me in the fine art of tuning this jig.  I have two that have done nothing but sit as spares in my tackle box lol.

If you can find a bjorn, BUY IT!   Mine is black.  You'll have to feed the serving material backwards through the holes (reverse from the little arrows that tell direction), and you'll need to open a hole up on the opposite side of the tiny outfeed hole for the thicker servings..but they work great!  no binding whatso ever.

here's a link to the bjorn....unfortunatly I havent been able to find them for awhile now...http://www.abbeyarchery.com.au/p/BBBSS/Bjorn+Serving+String+Jig.html

Notice the black and red teflon washers.  You wont see the difference in width till you actually measure them outright.   The red look alikes made in china are just narrower enough they either come tight or are loose..the sides dont have to move much at all before locking down on the spool.

fwiw ...

i have 7 or 8 different brand/model string serving servers, plus a few i made from scratch.  

in the long run, a simple server like the little spinner ...

(http://www.3riversarchery.com/images/medium/4148.jpg)

... works as good -if not better- than the complicated and expensive ones.  a simple serving tool is easy to make, to boot.  

i bought the 'high tech' bear paw serving tool and think it's a total waste of money, a real 'bear' to make work well if not at all.

ALL serving tools need fiddling and adjusting and adding washers (and/or springs) of varying materials and thicknesses as adjustable spool drags.

with a new, fully loaded serving thread spool, more tension is required to keep the jig under control when its spun.

and finally, ALL serving tools have a learning curve.  have patience, think logically, practice, stay the course and you will be rewarded.

Rob,
yeah, I thought the Bearpaw would be a good one, too, from the looks of it. Like you I found it a real pain in the rear to operate. It's just too darn heavy to manipulate easily.
I like the looks of the Lil' Spinner though, I watched the video on 3Rivers, I think the longer arm sitting over the string would make it a lot easier to use. Gonna order one.

WOO-HOO! FINALLY got a 63" string made up! The spring on the jig definitely made a difference, thanks for the tip John.   :thumbsup:

you know I got to thinking and tinkering, whats new.

I wonder if some, or if not all of that binding isnt caused by the bolt being to small diameter causing the spool to spin basically in an oblong fashion.  

If a guy could find a sleeve or sleeved bearing to fit inside the spool that the bolt could go through?!?!  

Everytime I pull on the red serving tool, I noticed it pulse's when pulled fast like it's spinning oblonged.   So grabbing ahold of the spool you can see how loose it is.   The washers help but arent the cure.  The old bjorn works great by minimizing contact and also basically taking place of that spring built it to the server itself by having the width being a little wider.  The spool still doesnt roll on the bolt smooth but it's definatly as good as I've played with.

I'll have to try a spring on the bohning serving tool....and maybe see if I cant find a bearing to fit inside it...heck even if a guys gotta drill it out some to get a bearing inside on each end to spin smoother

Curious what sized spring you found to work Dan as I believe I can buy them seperatly at the local hardware store.  I can also buy some bearings....

Just saw the video on the lil server too..that's a pretty dang slickm idear also.......

thin, wafer 'bent' washers act like springs and won't require going for a longer spool bolt.

another trick to smooth out the spins is to use a bearing washer somewhere in yer washer stack.

here's an ancient 35+ year old plastic server that i use exclusively for #4 nylon braid serving.  a real work horse that serves all my endless string loops ...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/serve2.jpg)

here's the spool drag complement.  notice the bearing washer and the short spring ...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/serve1.jpg)

here's most of my serving tools ...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/serve4.jpg)

here's one of the home made servers - works darned good, too! ...

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/archery/serve3.jpg)

Rob,
thanks for the input, I'm going to see if I can find that bearing washer. Quite a collection of servers!
I'm going to pick up one of the Lil' Spinners from 3R, I think the wider arm sitting on the string would be a help to me. I am constantly fighting with it to stay oriented the right way on the string as I spin it around.

i used a friend's li'l spinner and really liked it - if i hadda start all over again, i'd buy a buncha those.  

my black 'n' tan ...  :D

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/rfdee/dogs/rosky.jpg)

Hey bub, how's Lubbock? Amarillo good. I cut some washers from an old bicycle inner tube for mine and fixed her right up.  Ralph!

Some spools just serve better than others. Once in a while I get a spool that I can't wait for it to get used up.

Rob,

Awwwwwwwww....it's a little furry version of mine! Right down ta the look on her face when she's laying next ta me.    :saywhat:    
Like it here well enough, but miss the little things in Missouri ..... like hills, trees, streams, GREEN!    

if ya look at the top most pic that's of my ancient server, notice the huge entrance hole where the serving goes into after coming off the spool.  that huge hole took decades of string making to enlarge!  just realized that after taking a second look at that pic!

though i like the li'l spinner server, i'd say it's a solid good bet to go with a time honored old fashioned serving tool like this ...

(http://www.kustomkingarchery.com/images/1210SpeedSpinServerS.jpg)

just a bent piece of metal, but that wide groove on top where the thread emerges really helps to keep the serving on track.  it WILL need a spring and maybe a few more washers to tame the spool drag - an easy and quick fix.  i used a buncha these servers for over a decade, then gave 'em all away and bought a gaggle of 'hi tech' bjorn and cavalier servers - big mistake!

Rob,
I have had some success with the serve tite I have now.It's just that with the jig HANGING from the server thread itself if I get a gap between the bowstring and the groove then it is real easy, and in my case usually does, to twist off the groove and get a loose spot I have to adjust.

I think the Lil' Spinner, just my thought anyway, using that arm for suspension instead of the server thread would allow a more consistent contact between the bowstring and the serving thread.

You know what might make the one in your pic better? If it had a set of arms that slid out over the bowstring once you backed the server up to it. Just two little pieces of metal, say one one each side at opposite corners. Like this:
 (http://www.pcpics.net/pictures/1210SpeedSpin2.jpg)

Slide the arms forward after the string is cinched up to the serving tool to support the weight of the tool instead of the serving string itself having to support the weight. Also as you spin it it wouldn't come off the string at any point of the revolutions.

Whatcha think?

if your tension is right it wont come off the string.  Well if the tension is right and the jig doesnt bind up LOL!  I didnt get a chance to try the sleeved bearings inside the spools, or pick up any springs yet either....thanks for the pics Rob of that layout!

dan, although the 'fingers' you depict will probably work fine, it's something i'd probably not want.  those fingers might mask the loosening of spool drag and that will vary the tension of the serving, which is not a good thing.  

for the most part, spool tension needs a fair amount of fiddling and tweaking.  sometimes you can set it and forget it for 4 or 5 servings and then need to adjust it again.  this is at least partially due to the weight of the spool lessens as serving is removed.  it's just something i've learned to deal with and it's second nature.  i just get to know my servers, but i've also served thousands of strings over the decades so i've got lotsa familiarity with all kindsa servers.

in the beginning of the skinny endless string video you'll see me spin a loop serving using the old serving tool and #4 nylon ...

www.tradgang.com/videos/rob/es1.wmv (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/rob/es1.wmv)

I thought I had mental problems trying to serve.  I have the same one as Rob and all it does is aggrivate me.  I guess I can pull it out and try your tricks.  Thanks Guys.

i'll say it again - getting a smooooooth adjustable server spool drag tension is paramount.  having a washer that sticks will make for a very erratic serving tool that will change the serving thread tension with each turn of the jig.  i recommend some smooth metal washers, teflon washers, bearing washers ... and a small spring between a pair of smooth metal washers.

another thing - imo, those serving jigs with the 'tension holes' or 'tension bars' are a total waste as they amplify any spool drag inconsistencies.  for the very most part, i just run the serving thread right off the spool and into the jig's thread hole, bypassing all the holes, bars and dohickeys.  tension is always controlled by the spool drag.  yep, ya need a good spool drag tension system, so get the good washers and a small spring and have at it a bit, it'll work out fine, promise.

OH! yes - when you use the serving tool, serve from LEFT to right, and the spool MUST revolve from bottom to top (that is, as the serving thread loads on to the string), and the thread that comes off the spool and goes into the jig hole MUST be on the LEFT of the spool and you.

"...OH! yes - when you use the serving tool, serve from LEFT to right, and the spool MUST revolve from bottom to top (that is, as the serving thread loads on to the string), and the thread that comes off the spool and goes into the jig hole MUST be on the LEFT of the spool and you. ..."

Thanks for that big bit of info Rob.     :thumbsup:     Was never really sure which way was supposed to be what.

Clear up one point for me if you would be so kind:
When you say: "...the spool MUST revolve from bottom to top (that is, as the serving thread loads on to the string), ...." do you mean that I will be serving from the bottom limb towards the top limb? Just wanna be sure since, to be honest I don't know.

Thanks Rob.

the "OH! yes" remark is for a right handed bow, do the opposite for a leftie (serve right to left), so that the center serving is 'twisted' tighter as you draw back the bowstring.

in the skinny string vid, where i'm serving the first string loop with #4 nylon, notice that the serving tool moves from left to right, with the thread coming off the left side of the spool in order to keep the thread that's already served on the string packed tight, and that with every turn of the jig it's laying down a spiral of serving.

in essence, when the spool is hanging off the string, you pull it up towards you and then over the top of the string, completing one revolution.  

it's kinda hard for me to explain in just words - geez, we need a video chat room!  :D

Then, following the left to right rule, and to have the serving tighten as I grip it (right handed), I would be standing with the upper limb to my left and the arrow shelf facing me, and serve downward towards the lower limb. Looking down the string from the top nock to the bottom (looking through the string) the server would be spinning in a clockwise direction.

~ Whew! Mental videoing is draining!~    :saywhat:

QuoteOriginally posted by DngrsDan:
Then, following the left to right rule, and to have the serving tighten as I grip it (right handed), I would be standing with the upper limb to my left and the arrow shelf facing me, and serve downward towards the lower limb. Looking down the string from the top nock to the bottom (looking through the string) the server would be spinning in a clockwise direction.

~ Whew! Mental videoing is draining!~     :saywhat:  

no no no - for a right handed bow/archer, serve the center serving from the bottom limb to the top limb ... that 'locks' the serving as you pull on it with yer bow hand.

I'm loving this thread.  I have one of the servers like Ron shows with the little aluminum bar and a groove.  Been using it for years and only had one serving that came undone.

Never had a problem with the thing and have not experienced any of the problems that were mentioned here.  Don't have a spring and am able to get good tension any time I use it.  I guess I'm either lucky or too dumb to over-think it.

But you guys have me confused with the last couple of exchanges.  I'm not following everything that is being said.  I do serve from bottom limb to top.  And I always serve with the string twist so that tightening the string tightens the serving.  It seems to work, at least for me, and based on the discussion above, I can see how it could be either way.

When I make my strings, I make a smaller loop for the bottom limb since it won't be sliding up the bow.  I've never thought about where I make if first or second when I'm twisting a string.  Would the twist be backwards if I made it as the first loop, compared to the second loop?  Or since I am twisting the same direction, would the twist be the same looking from either end?

Another serving topic I'd like to see discussed is serving size.  As mentioned above, I have the one serving jig I have used for years.  I'm still using the original serving spool that came with it.  It's almost empty and will have to be replaced.  I can probably look at the spool end to see what it is, and re-order the same thing, but what about other materials or sizes.  Since I'm going to be buying something anyway, is there something better than what I currently have?

for the most part, if you serve the center serving backwards - that is, from the top limb to the bottom limb on a right handed bow - it's not all that bad, but just be aware that if your serving isn't tight and locked, the action from your tab or glove on that serving as the bowstring is both drawn and released could contribute to it loosening up.  why take a chance?  just server correctly.

for either flemish or endless strings, it doesn't matter one bit which end is used for what limb loop.  all that matters with a flemish is that all of the twisting goes in the correct direction.  with endless strings it's even even easier as there are no twisting issues to be concerned about.  

i also make the bottom loop smaller than the top loop, so that the string stays on when the bow is unbraced.

finding the correct diameter center serving thread is just that - mating the proper diameter thread to the existing rounded string diameter.  

this relationship can change at a moment's notice if you use less strands in your string, or use a different string fiber diameter.

this is why i have serving threads in incremental diameters from .014 to .026.  

ALSO, what kinda nock-to-serving fit do you require?  

if you're a 3 under archer, that fit is CRITICAL - it must be enuf to just barely hold the nock onto the serving whilst at full draw.

for split finger archers, it's much easier - you WANT a LOOSE fit so that the arrow will NOT hang on the string of it's own weight when nocked on the center serving.  WHY????  think about it for a second - you want nothing to impede the release of the nock/arrow as your fingers let go of the string, for best transmission of limb energy to the string, and best undisturbed arrow flight.

I am hoping to put all of this useful info to use once I have to repair the serving on my longbow.

Excelent info Rob!!!

I guess I was doing it right, but didn't know why.  This helps.

AkDan made a comment about the wobble of the spool on the shaft, so I checked how mine is, and, sure enough, it wobbles. Which got me to thinking about what I could put in as a bearing like Ak said.

After thinking about it for a while I got up and shut off the smoke alarm, it was very distracting.     :knothead:    

I ran across a couple of empty magnetic bobbin spools I happened to have at home with me, and tried to fit one of them in the end of the spool. It was an ALMOST but NOT QUITE fit.     :banghead:  
  (http://www.pcpics.net/pictures/bobbins.jpg)

Never one to let an idea die from loneliness I checked to see if I had a drill bit the size of the bobbin spool.

Fortunately for my original idea it turned out to be a 3/8th bit that worked and the idea survived another day.     :D  
 
I drilled, at high speed, into the end of the server spool from both sides and the bobbin spool slid right in pretty as ya please.
  (http://www.pcpics.net/pictures/bobbin.jpg)

And here's the original bolt back in place, through the new nylon washers, through the two spools, waiting for the rest.
  (http://www.pcpics.net/pictures/installed.jpg)

Surprisingly Murphy must of been causing grief in some other poor souls life for a change, because the bolt fit PERFECTLY through the spools. I'm going to fix it up like Rob showed now with the bent washers and bearings. I'd also like to find a thumbscrew bolt to replace the wingnut.

The server spool spins without a hint of wobble, very smooth travel.

Heck, may end up I like it after all.


If any of ya want a couple of those spools, I throw 'em away by the dozens daily.
~*OK....try guessin' what I do fer a livin'. Give ya'll a hint-it involves lots of threads, bobbins, and logos.*~     :biglaugh:

***LATE EDIT***
I have been experiencing MAJOR computer problem (Guess Murphy ain't fergottin' me after all) and have had to re-boot several times trying to get this posted.    :banghead:      :eek:  

Here's everything put together using washers and spring as a tensioner.  

 (http://www.pcpics.net/pictures/server.jpg)

It feels MUCH more consistent and smooth now, no wobble, no jerkiness when pulling on the string-a steady tension through the whole pull.

Now I gotta make up another string to try it on.

lookin' really great, dan!  i suspect you've got a winner there!    :thumbsup:

QuoteOriginally posted by LBR:
I use Cajun serving tools--got 50 or so.  I replace the bolt with a longer one and add a few fender washers for a little extra weight.  They are dang near bomb-proof (still using my first ones)and the tension is more adjustable than any I've used.  They aren't the cheapest, but aren't too expensive either.

Those are the same servers I use. As I recall, Bohning used to make them, or at least sell them under their name.

I've tried a lot of other servers over the years, but none that I've liked as much as the Cajuns.

(http://www.nationalarcherysupply.com/contents/media/t_cajun_string_server.jpg)

That's great idea JRY309

Same here JRW.  This has been an interesting thread, but I don't like to tinker nearly as much as some folks.  The only modifications I've needed (well, didn't actually require them, I just like it) was adding some extra weight to the tool.

I don't know who makes them now.  I was getting mine through BCY, but they quit carrying them.  Last time I ordered a bunch of extras, just in case, although I've yet to wear out my first one.  I like to have a separate serving tool for each different spool of serving--different colors, different sizes, different types.....if I counted correctly, I've got 38 in use right now, all Cajuns.

Chad

i've had a few cajuns, they're quite good.  my fave is still the cavalier, with added washers and/or a spring.  whatever works.

Chad,

I picked up an extra Cajun server last year from The Nocking Point. He has them listed on his web site as "Serve Tite Server with wheel" for $10.50. If you Google "serve tite serving jig," you'll find a few other retailers who sell them.

I only have two in use (I know, I'm a slacker), one for center serving and one for end serving.

That's the problem with finding them--you never know what the dealers are calling them!

Think I have 20-25 extras right now, so hopefully I'll be good for a while.

This has been an interesting thread, in that it tells me I have built literally dozens of strings over the last 17 years and served the centers from the wrong direction (never had even one come unravelled either).  I have one of the "Cajun" servers and have never had any of the problems as described here in this thread.  I guess some things in life are just dumb luck after all.  I learned how to twist Flemish strings about that long ago from a demonstration given my Dave Doran (Archery Past)and have never had any problems of any kind (slippage, creeping from skinny strings, etc.) At least now I know how to do it correctly. Thanks for the info.

do i detect a bit of sarcasm in yer post, greg?     :saywhat:  

anyhoo, good to hear yer wrong doing can be so right - for you.

Greg, don't believe everything you read!  ;)

Chad,

20-25 extras? Geez! I thought I liked to stock up on things. If I ever need another serving jig, I'm going to give you a call.   :biglaugh:

Greg,

Wrapping the center serving top-down or bottom-up doesn't make a lick of difference one way or the other. The only thing that's important is that the serving tightens, instead of loosens, as you twist the string.

Personally, I always apply my center servings from the top-down (no particular reason, I suppose). I've neer had a problem with a Cajun server either.  ;)

Dan, did the spool washers help?  I was hoping to find some cylinder bearins this weekend and give that a go.

QuoteChad,

20-25 extras? Geez! I thought I liked to stock up on things. If I ever need another serving jig, I'm going to give you a call.  

You'd think it was overkill, but........I'd ordered 25 extras before the last batch, and wound up using or selling every blasted one of them.  May not have as many as I think right now--I haven't counted lately.

If you need one, just holler.  I get a better deal ordering them in bulk.  :bigsmyl:

QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Greg,

Wrapping the center serving top-down or bottom-up doesn't make a lick of difference one way or the other. The only thing that's important is that the serving tightens, instead of loosens, as you twist the string.

Personally, I always apply my center servings from the top-down (no particular reason, I suppose). I've neer had a problem with a Cajun server either.   ;)  

exactly what jason sez.  you can serve top limb to bottom if you properly reorient the serving jig.  

as i've said elsewhere in this thread, if you center serve in the wrong direction, and the serving is tight, with a drop of glue at each whipped end, all should be well.  Even though your bowhand fingers are providing pressure on the wraps that want to make them unravel.
 
but, why not do it right from the get-go?

Rob,

I have to say that I've never before heard of anyone serving bowstrings specifically for right- or left-handed shooters. I remember when every archery shop and sporting goods store sold bow strings in tubes (Bear and Martin strings mostly), and don't remember ever seeing "right-" or "left-handed" on the packages. As a matter of fact, prior to this thread, I've never heard anyone say that hand orientation is a determining factor in serving direction.

What I tried to convey in my previous post (possibly unsuccessfully), is that being right- or left-handed, or serving top-down or bottom-up, are irrelevant in and of themselves. The only thing of importance with respect to serving direction is the twist of the string itself (whether you twist the end loop clockwise or counterclockwise to shorten the string).

If shooting right- or left-handed causes a center serving to come loose, it probably wasn't wrapped very well to begin with.

yep, that was my point as well, only i didn't phrase it properly ...

the center serving should be served on so that when the archer's bowhand grips and pulls the string, the serving coils are actually tightened.

if you were around in the 60's, you'd know just where i'm coming from - the mono center servings we used would literally spring off the string if they were served in the wrong direction, if weren't glued down at the ends, if they were showing signs of wear .... boooiinngggg!  :D

Oh, I remeber mono servings. I remember cursing them too. Sometimes fishing line should just be left on fishing reels.   ;)

FYI, Jason, back in the '80s in Traditional Archery magazine, there was a gentleman who advertised with serving direction, dependent on right or left hand.

Someone always comes up with gimmicks to sell something!

QuoteOriginally posted by frank bullitt:
FYI, Jason, back in the '80s in Traditional Archery magazine, there was a gentleman who advertised with serving direction, dependent on right or left hand.

Someone always comes up with gimmicks to sell something!

not a gimmick, a fact.  

if the center serving is spiraled on in a direction that's contrary to your fingers movement on that serving, the tendency is to loosen the serving.  pure physics, not pure bs.

Rob,
I can see it's really not a gimmick. Yes, makes sense to have the serving going in the direction you'll twist the string when gripping it.

Sooooo.....if I am serving from left/right-bottom/top then I would be standing on the off side from the arrow rest if the bow is fastened down on it's back, and the serving tool would have the serving string on the far side of the string when it is suspended from the string-on my side on top of the string.

Gosh archery is hard!   :biglaugh:

QuoteOriginally posted by frank bullitt:
Someone always comes up with gimmicks to sell something!

I suppose if a company can sell hunters little packages of deer poop, anything's possible. Either way, a little humor is good for the soul.    :biglaugh:

actually that is shown in a couple of the string building videos.   How to serve so you are tightneing not loosening the serving.....you're not THAT old Rob  ;)


ok ok..yes you are  :D

dan,

i've found that for a right handed archer, serving from the bottom limb side on up just feels more natural.  the few times i tried it from the top limb down towards the bottom limb, going from right to left, it just felt awkward - but it will correctly lay down the spirals as long as the spool direction is from under to over.  it's not really the side that counts, it's the direction the thread gets served on to the bowstring.  

"Sooooo.....if I am serving from left/right-bottom/top then I would be standing on the off side from the arrow rest if the bow is fastened down on it's back, and the serving tool would have the serving string on the far side of the string when it is suspended from the string-on my side on top of the string."

ummm, now i'm cornfused and it don't take much for that to happen these dayze!  here's a cut from the skinny string vid that shows the center serving, 25meg file, hope this helps ...

www.tradgang.com/videos/rob/es1x.wmv (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/rob/es1x.wmv)

Rob, I think you misunderstood, stop and think about a flemish twist string. If I make them one direction, I would need to serve,so like guys say with the twist, so when shortened the serving stays tight!

I don't twist strings left and right!


when you make an endless string, after done do you twist it up left or right? And why. With an endless you can go either way  :biglaugh:

That's just wrong!


Good shootin, Steve!

firstly, 'frank bullitt', you have a pm already waiting for you.

secondly, clearly i see you just don't get it.  perhaps it's my fault for not explaining it well or at all.  

in any case, respectfully, yer wrong.  

endless strings do need to have some twist in them to 'round off' and you ALWAYS twist with regards to which hand pulls back the string.  the same is perfectly true for flemish strings.  

in both cases of string twist, or of serving twist, your bowstring hand will either look to tighten the twist or remove it.    

in any event, you enjoy and keep the faith in your way of building strings.

Rob, didn't say that endless strings don't get twisted, but, factory stings, are served in one direction! They don't know if your right or left handed when you buy them!

You, yourself said your coRnfused :biglaugh

Good shootin, Steve

QuoteOriginally posted by frank bullitt:
Rob, didn't say that endless strings don't get twisted, but, factory stings, are served in one direction! They don't know if your right or left handed when you buy them!

because they could care less and that's why you buy superb custom bowstrings from good folks like chad @ champion bowstrings.

You, yourself said your coRnfused :biglaugh

i'm not laughing or even smiling - and i'm not at all confused about how to correctly build flemish and endless bowstrings.  i sold custom bowstrings for decades and have lost count of how many i've spun up.

your understanding about string and serving twist is just wrong and will only confuse newbies to string making.  i suggest you stop perpetuating nonsense.

good bowstring making to you.

Good shootin, Steve

........

QuoteOriginally posted by frank bullitt:
 If I make them one direction, I would need to serve,so like guys say with the twist, so when shortened the serving stays tight!

Exactly correct! Left- or right-handed is irrelevant. Otherwise, how did/do left-handed archers get by for decades shooting factory strings without servings slipping off all over the place?    ;)  

Sometimes I think we overcomplicate things just for the sake of doing so.    :rolleyes:

yes, for the most part a righty twisted string and serving will work for a lefty archer.  you guys are absolutely right.  

but i'd never ever sell that string to my customer because ... it's just plain wrong and there very well could be issues as a result.  setting the twist of the string and serving was common knowledge and practice at least back in the 60's.  wasn't at all overcomplicated, it just made perfect, constructive sense.  my how things have changed for some folks.  i'll stick to my old ways, thank you.

I just got back to this thread and noticed some replies regarding my post.  Rob, sorry if I sounded sarcastic - didn't intend to. It is like so many aspects of this sport wherein I just sort of flew by the "seat of my pants" so to speak, because I had no better information available.  I truly wish I had had access to the information currently available on sites such as this many years ago when I was developing bad shooting habits and learning as best I could how to be a "traditional archer". I definitely could have been a better and more knowledgeable longbow shooter. Let me just reassure you, I appreciate the expertise of those like you who are here to share the things you know.

#$%#* I HATE MURPHY!

I found the longer bolt I would need for this server. I found a 1/4 x 3.5 that WOULD fit, but it WOULDN'T fit through the spools I installed. The original bolt does, but I wanted a slightly longer one so I could try different springs for tension.

I couldn't find what I needed at HD, and I stopped into Sutherland"s just to see what I can find.

Found the EXACT bolt I needed, it's a 6 x 75 metric that's about 1/2 inch longer than the standard bolt.

Outstanding! So I got one and stuck it in my jacket pocket and ran a few more chores.

Guess what's no longer in my jacket pocket when I got back home?

Now I gotta wait til tomorrow so I can experiment some more!


#*&^% MURPHY!

Unfortunatley, most guys don't serve up enough strings to get the hang of the spinning. I have used several different servers also including the little spinner and have settled in on the bear paw as the easiest for me. My son has comandeered it and I must now buy another.

BigJim

QuoteOriginally posted by BigJim:
Unfortunatley, most guys don't serve up enough strings to get the hang of the spinning. I have used several different servers also including the little spinner and have settled in on the bear paw as the easiest for me. My son has comandeered it and I must now buy another.

BigJim

you can have mine, jim - pm sent to ya.

I haven't tried a Bear Paw...probably shouldn't, because if I like it better I'll have a dang bunch of Cajun's sitting around.

I only make around 1,000 strings a year, and so far so good.  I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it" kind of guy.

Chad

Only Chad lmao!

I couldn't deal with just one or two serving tools--I'd loose 'em.  40 or so is easier to keep up with.  :bigsmyl:

QuoteOriginally posted by LBR:
I haven't tried a Bear Paw...probably shouldn't, because if I like it better I'll have a dang bunch of Cajun's sitting around.

No, because you could send your Cajuns to me.

(note to self: I can get 40 Cajuns for the price of one Bear Paw.)

Hey Chad, what's your mailing address?   :jumper: