Trad Gang

Lenny's recent thread on ILF bows, (How many are shooting ILF bows?), has gotten me interested in putting together an ILF hunting bow.  Seems that there are a bunch of risers out there, many I have just now heard about.  I'd like to know all that are available, and I'd bet from the interest on that thread, that some of you others would as well.

   Let's start a list.  Giving what you know, like/dislike about each.  What materials, if they are made for shooting off the shelf or rest, lengths, ET.  Find pics and post if you can.

   Let me start.
I am not very knowledgeable in ILF setups, but have had a couple.  I may have made mistakes in my descriptions. If so, please point them out.

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1. DAS (Dalaa/Master)

Machined Aluminum
Some draw weight adjustability
Tiller adjustability
Center shot adjustability
Burger Button Hole (for screw in type rest)
Will take any ILF limbs, (but you have to change bushings).
Comes in 17 and 21" lengths

Likes:
   Quality Product

Dislikes:
   The sideplate for the adjustable centershot is flat (because it turns) and would at times catch the feathers on my arrows.
   Would prefer an all wood or phenolic more traditional looking riser.


    (http://www.3riversarchery.com/images/medium/8147.jpg)

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2. TradTech Pinnacle


• Accepts TradTech & all ILF Recurve and Longbow Limbs
• 19" ILF Riser with the Beauty of Wood
• Crafted of Thick Phenolic Layers and Maple Hardwood Lams
• Custom-Made by Samick Exclusively for TradTech's Design
• ILF International Limb Fitting for standardized use with all ILF Limbs
• 19" Long Riser in RH/LH yields a 60", 62" or 64" Bow w/ ILF Limbs
• Weight Adjustable up to 10% of Minimum Limb Weight
• Easy Tiller Adjustment for Split or Three Fingers Under
• Lateral Limb Adjustments Allow Perfect Setting for Any Limb
• Narrow, Medium Wrist Grip w/ Shelf Radius for Arrow Rest Rug
(The bove is Trad Tech's description)

Likes:
   Wood
   Radiused Shelf
Inexpensive ($250)
Accepts ILF limb bushings as is


Dislikes:
   The Quality you would expect for the price. (Not BAD, but rough around the edges, sharp corners and edges.  It's been a while, but I remember it as a bit heavy and clunky. (This might just be my poor memory).
   NOTE: The above is about the original design.  I just read on Pete Ward site that there is a new sleeker version out now.


ORIGINAL

    (http://peteward.com/2008photos/lancaster/Pinacleriser.jpg)

NEW STYLE

    (http://peteward.com/2008photos/lancaster/Pinnacle2front.jpg)

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3. WARF

A design developed by Bob Gordon.  Who probably started the whole movement to putting ILF limbs on hunting style bows.  He basically adapts old metal compound bow risers, and machines the risers to accept ILF limbs.  There are several old risers that make a nice WARF bow.  Not sure of them all, but :

HOYT TD3  (one of the best)
Black Bear
Proline
(That is all I know that other more knowledgeable folks can chip in.).

Likes:
Cheap.  (You can build one yourself with parts now available from Lancaster for under $80).

Dislikes:
Not much to dislike.  May be getting hard to find old risers to convert.  Forget the lengths, but most are on the long side 19+ inches. Can be heavy.  Can be clunky.  But if you build your own, you can trim them down.

Here is a Hoyt TD3 that I had owned

    (http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/genecharb/belly-1.jpg)

Sidenote:
   Pete Ward has full details on building your own at his web site. Plus a real slick TD3 conversion that he did, and got a nice film dip on.  I hope he sees this and pitches in. He got a lot of knowledge on these things.
   
Hope you all can pitch in and educate us on all the rest of the stuff available out there.

if you have an open mind about what trad is and you want to put an arrow thru a turkeys wingnut at 25yds, the Bernardini Mamba and Cobra are a great choice.

 (http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww66/rustycraine/texkit.jpg)

Mike and Jason at Dryad Bows have a wooden 15" in the works.  I saw the prototype the other day.  It will a another moneth or so, theyh are going to get it right on the first go around.

 (http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww66/rustycraine/oriongrp1a.jpg)

I had them build me an Orion riser string enough and arrcurate enough to use a sight, stabilizer and plunger.  their 15" will be a stiffened up riser like mine but have the same feel and look as their Orion riser.

Borders Bows also has a line of wooden ILF risers one the way.  Triple Carbon, stiffen enough to cut past center.  stab and stight bosses available.

I seems like Sky (Belchers) is coming up with some pretty dandy alloy riser,  I haven't goten to shoot one yet.

OH btw Dryad is Warfing some old Alpine compound riser.  I shot one the other day with their new ILF lonbgbow limbs.  riser was real nice to shoot.

rusty

Rusty

Thanks for the input   :thumbsup:  

I saw where Mike posted on that Alpine riser they had converted.  Pretty slick.  I will be watching for the new Dryad ILF riser.

I'd like to keep to a 15-17" riser, so that is what I am personally looking into.  But curious on ALL the ILF stuff.

I got a feeling we will be seeing lots of new risers in the near future.

if you are opened minded  :) , don't over look the 25" FITA risers.  here is the one I hunted turkey with for over a decade. 25" Hoyt Gold medalist.  took a little thought to get in quieten down but I did.  ILF recurve shorts will give you a 66" bow.  I put a pair of 48# 25H 66" (shorts) on the bow.  It was not in Guru's class but for an old geezer it was a killing machine.

 (http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww66/rustycraine/dryadgmedal1.jpg)

a 23" ILF fita riser will give you a 64" bow with ilf short recurve limbs.  a bow will with the hunting lenght IMO

rusty

Gene - Ah sorry.  the 17 and less are just now coming online since the DAS risers.  Hoyt and Black Widow (wilson bothers) had some 16" riser but were not really ILF.  

the Bernardini's are 19" and 21" sorry

rusty

Rusty

Not ruling out longer risers.  
May even go all the way to 19"  :biglaugh:

I appreicate your open mind as to what a traditional hunting bow is or is not.  we mostly see the narrowest little slice of what tradtional was just before the compound made us tradtional.  

This little  riser was a 16" Hoyt hunting riser.  it has cut out for drawing the  BH indside the shelf.  it has a eye lash brush rest.  Now I am not sure what they wanted you to do with the shiny gold rods.  it is clear to see that precompound hunting bows were getting plumb techy  :)  Don't let the trad police scare ya off.  shoot what ya can hit the spot with and have the greatest cofidence in no matter if it is a HH Big Five or a surenuff techy trad rig

 (http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww66/rustycraine/hoythunter.jpg)

rusty -was an bowhunter before trad- Craine

Good point.

I have nothing at all against the high tech stuff.  May very well try it again some day, when I have more patience to tune it properly.

I am of an age (OLD)  :cool:  that all new things take time.


I am going to keep my eyes for used IFL stuff in the classifieds.  Going to be a long winter here in Maine.  Looks like 12"+ of snow this weekend on top of the 10-12" already on the ground.  Makes it hard retrieving errant arrows.  :o

I guess it would all depend on what you consider a "hunting" riser but there are getting to be quite a few different options out there.

The actual ILF risers that I know of (designed as a "hunting" risers) are...

Tradtech
Titan
Pinnacle
Pinnacle II
Galaxy
Recon
Black Onyx

Morrison
Mini 14 custom wood
Mini 14 (machined aluminum)
16" custom wood
18 custom wood

Sky Archery (Belcher)
TDX 15"
TDX 17"

TAC
Black sheep
Firefly

There are a number of others that I know of that are in the works including...

Sapphire
Zipper
Dryad

There are a number of risers that will accept ILF limbs if the bushings are modified.

Hoyt
Gamemaster
Gamemaster II
Tiburon
Dorado

3Rivers
Dalaa

There are also a few like the  Hoyt Excel  that many are successfully using as hunting risers and of course all the other ILF target risers out there that have been used for years.

There are probably quite a few that I missed and even more that are in the works that nobody knows about yet.

Thanks Lenny   :thumbsup:  

That's just what I was trying to find out about.
I guess by "hunting riser", I mean one not designed and dedicated primarily for target use. But from Rusty's posts I see than even long target style risers are adaptable, and with shorter limbs can make a compact bow.

I hope that this not only helps me, but is of use to other folks interested in ILF.

Having two risers (long and short) and a couple sets of limbs including longbow, and recurve leaves you with many possibilities.

Thought I would bump this up, as I decided on what I wanted, got my new bow, and with the interest in ILF limbed bows, figured others would be interested.

I settled on a Trad Tech Black Onyx Riser.  Its 15". Its black phenolic, with what looks like zebrawood trim. Very nicely made.  Excellent grip, and balance. Being phenolic its got mass, but being 15" not excessive.  Seems to be about the same weight as my BW PSA. $279

The limbs are Trad Tech Black Max Carbon over a Maple core.  From what I read everywhere.  These limbs are HOT, and very reasonably priced, make that CHEAP.  I got the 45# longs(on a 17" riser)  $219 pr.

End product is a 47# at 28" bow at 60" AMO.

Add a $15 Dyna '97 string and that $513 total.

Initial impression is that its faster, quieter, smoother than my 49# BW PSAII.  I like the grip better, and it pretty darn good looking as well.

(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/genecharb/Best.jpg)

(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/genecharb/Best-2.jpg)

For those wishing more info on just what ILF bows are all about see this link to Pete Ward's web site.  He lays it all down.
Just look for the ILF GUIDE on the left under "Projects"
 Pete Ward\\'s Web Site (http://peteward.com/)  

Thanks to all who were of assistance. Lenny was a huge help, as was Pete.

Can you get the Black Onyx without the Zebrawood trim? Not that it looks bad I just like all black.

Nope!

There is another version called the RECON , but its got more wood, and an extra $50.

(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58/genecharb/TradTechReconRiser-15in329.gif)

That's a beauty. How long are you going to keep that one   :biglaugh:

LOL  
I hope longer than I kept your ACS!    

Take care, bud!

that is a very handsome bow.

rusty

Hey Rusty

Thank you for your help.  :thumbsup:  

Gene

Rusty, where did you get the bow holder in the pic. with the camo dipped bow and yellow jacket target.  I was thinking about making something like that for blind hunting.  Scott

i love the versatility of the ILF stuff . i normally shoot Hills tyle bows with wooden arrows but more and more i'm getting drawn to the versatility of the ILF gear .
i'm also really looking foward to get back into barebow target shooting ... 30 arrows at 60 metres will sort the wheat from the chaff!!!
now if i can get some glasses that'll let me actually see the target at 60 metres ....

2 questions

1> what does IFL mean?
2> Do you feel these Bow are more accurate then other 3-piece Bows?

rusty you have the coolest toys!!. gene on another site they said the onyx was a mistake on the recon order you can see the its reverse i think they look great. how do youlike the grip?

Trad tech is really coming out with some nice risers the Recon and Onyx are sweet looking.

QuoteOriginally posted by mysticguido:
2 questions

1> what does IFL mean?
2> Do you feel these Bow are more accurate then other 3-piece Bows?

1. International limb fitting.
2. CNC metal accuracy.  No changes like wood.  More rigid so more energy into the limb and not soaked up by the riser.  I am sure there are others, but if international level shooter only shoot metal risers I would think they just plain or more accurate.

Sal

ILF stands for Intenational Limb Fitting.  The origin is in intenational olympic style target bows.  So they could swap limbs from one country with risers from another.  Its all about the mounting system.  The limb design is very high tech, especially at the high end.  Limbs start around $100 for entry level limbs to $600+ for carbon/foam limbs.

More accutate?  That's a loaded question. LOL.  Lets say the limbs are target limbs made to be very accurate.  Some of the new short risers are very high tech machined alum to high tolerances.  I guess they have the potential to be more accurate.

There is some adjustability to weight (3-5# on most), and tiller.

You can learn more from this link...

http://peteward.com/

Go over to the right column, look under "PROJECTS" then " ILF Guide".

Steve

The grip is very nice.  The fit and finish are very good.

Thanx...

the stand is a hawglite stand.

http://www.hawglite.com/order.html

rusty

Do you feel these Bow are more accurate then other 3-piece Bows?

ILF limbs have benefited from all the r&d that has gone into developing the most accurate and consistent limbs in the world for target use.  In my opinion though, it is the entire ILF "system" (and it's inherent versatility, tuneability, and customization) that lends itself to a  "system"  that has the potential to be more accurate.

Nice looking bow. I keep looking at these ILF bows and may have to pull the trigger on one.

How do these risers work with the longbow limbs that are out there? Is the perfomance better with the recurve limbs? Are the longbow limbs quieter? Just wondering........

What about limbs?  When I was asking, the limbs that came in on top where; the Trad Tech Black Max Carbon limbs.  What are you shooting?

Ron,

Those that have tried our longbow ILF limbs tell me they are quieter then the recurve limbs.  We just got our first prototype curve limbs done so I'll be able to compare the two shortly.

Mike

If it shots as good as the ACS I am interested.   :wavey:    :wavey:  Thanks, Randy

QuoteOriginally posted by ron w:
Are the longbow limbs quieter? Just wondering........

That would depend on the riser being used and the construction of the limbs.  The absolute quietest limbs I have ever heard on an ILF riser have been recurve limbs.

Lenny,

Have you ever shot or heard shot longbow limbs on an ILF riser?  They haven't been around long, just wondering.

Rusty has been using his stringwalking (usually very noisy) and has commented that they are very quiet and much quieter then his collection of curve limbs.

Mike

QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
Lenny,

Have you ever shot or heard shot longbow limbs on an ILF riser?  They haven't been around long, just wondering.


Mike

Actually Mike, ILF longbow limbs have been around for a couple of years now.  Yes, I have a set of the TT glass longbow limbs and a friend of mine has the Carbon Masters limbs and I have shot them quite a bit. Another friend has a set of Morrison longbow limbs.  As far as I know, other than yours, that's about all of them.

Cool!  Hadn't heard of the Carbon Master limbs.  We have a set of TT limbs here but can't afford a set of Morrison's.  LOL

Mike

Lenny,

I had the privilege of test-driving a prototype set of those TradTech Master longbow limbs a couple years ago.  I have never shot anything quite like them--very quiet, smooth, and quick.  They shot faster than all my recurve (chronographed) limbs too.

The Carbon Masters are made by TT also.  They've been around for a couple years I think.  I shot them quite a bit last year.  I borrowed them from my buddy and hunted with them all last year.

I'm not positive but I think they are the same construction as the Samick Masters recurve limbs.

carbon
------------
carbon
------------
carbon
------------
wood
------------
wood
------------
carbon
------------
carbon
------------
carbon

Yeah, the Morrison limbs are nice but way out of my price range.

Yep, I've seen them advertised.  I think your right, probably the same as the Samick being they make both.

Mike

You are right Mike, I think Samick makes all their limbs.  If I'm not mistaken, TT (samick)actually came out with the first ILF longbow limb.  

Back to the original question though, the guy who owns the Masters Longbow limbs also has a set of the Extreme bf limbs and at least to my ear, they are quieter than anything I have heard on any ILF bow. I wish I could afford a set.  I have the Black Max carbons and they are very close to being as quiet.

So, if you purchase a IFL friendly riser, any set of IFL limbs will work to make a bow? And bow length would depend on the riser length? Just trying to get educated!!! Does it matter if the riser is straight or deflexed?

ILF risers tend to be within a few degrees of each other on limb angle so that's not usually an issue.

Risers come in different lengths and so do limbs.

Limbs are usually short, medium and long.

Mike

For example Ron,

17" riser + short limbs = 58" bow (amo)

17" riser + med. limbs = 60" bow

17" riser + long limbs = 62" bow

-----------------------------------------

21" riser + short limbs = 62" bow

21" riser + med limbs + 64" bow

21" riser + long limbs + 66" bow

------------------------------------------

The longbow limbs that I have come in one size and would be considered "longs."

Not sure what the length is on Wingnuts limbs.

There are some limbs that are available in "extra short" but not all.  These would result in a bow that is 2" shorter than the "shorts."

Make sense??

Gene, I have a Black Onyx on the way, with the Black Max limbs.  I went with the medium 50 lb limbs.   If I like the setup, I think I will call Mike at Dryd and get a set of longbow limbs!

Mel

Same setup that I have.  But I also have the Trad Tech Titan riser (17") on the way.  I want to have two ILF risers, and play "switch" with various limbs.

The Black Max Carbons are super limbs so far.
The riser is "almost" great.  Only issue is the flat spot on the front of the riser in the grip area.  This leaves two (I dont want to say SHARP) but two distinct edges that are noticeable on the fingers when shooting.  I am going to try to smooth the transition with a piece of black Velcro a little narrower than the width of the flat tomorrow. I am pretty sure that will help.

Gene,

Nothing there that a drum sander won't fix for you.  :^)

Interesting how we see and feel things differently.  I usually have to work on grips, but on the Onyx... well... it was perfect for me.

Gene, how would you compair the grip to a Widow?  I really like the Asbell grip, not so much the regular Widow grip.   I am thinking maybe a roll on rubber grip.  I have that on most of my bows.

Gene, where did you set your brace height at?

Hey Jim

Generally I like the grip fine. Just noticing something that feels a little different than the Widow     :rolleyes:    

I am going to leave it alone for the time being, but as you said, a little sanding might just be in order!   (http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/images/smilies/animated/eyebrows.gif)

Mel

Its more like the Asbell grip than the std Widow grip with moderate palm swell.  Nice slim throat.

My brace is at 8" even, but I've got the long limbs.  The TT tech guy said 7 3/4 to 8 1/4 for me. Probably more like 7 1/2 to 8" for your 58"

Intresting, I think I'm learning something...lol! Thanks for the info,your never to old to learn!

ihave a pinn. 2 with TTlongbow limbs i like it its two turns out from factory to try and get 30" draw and labeled wieght to come togther. so i ordered limbs from mike 50@30... should i be able to turn those two turns back and get 50@30? the pinn2 is a little slender for me the onyx looks interesting .

I have read several post that the 58 inch black onyx riser and black max limb bow shoots best at   8 1/4 to 8 1/2.  I have one coming this week.

These ILF longbow limbs that have been built for going on 3 years now.
With foam and carbon also

 (http://www.morrisonarchery.com/assets/images/MyMiny_1.jpg)   (http://www.morrisonarchery.com/assets/images/MyILF1.jpg)

Are there any new manufactures that make a ILF risers?

Zipper is making an ILF set up now. There is one in the classifieds

Getting a Zipper riser next week, can't wait to try it out!!

I often hunt with my 25" Greenhorn Victory B+ riser. Camoed it up. I didn't read this whole thread because so many pages but hell, you can hunt with any ILF riser out there. Even if its flourescent pink, throw a limbskin over it and off you go.
My only concern with metal risers is how horribly cold they get. It goes right through any glove or mitt I've ever had.
Hoyt
Win&Win
Samick
PSE
Greenhorn
Spigarelli
Cartel
October mountain
Bernardini
Best
Fiberbow
Kaya
Sebastian Flute
Yamaha
Plus all the newcomers probably mentioned already..Daas, warf, Black Swan, Morrison, Zipper,etc. etc.

I shoot several ILF at the moment:

DAS Hunter excellent riser(17")
DAS Elite goota love these(21")
Nilo makes a loong longbow with dryad limbs(25")
Border all wood a real beauty(19")

And I can change all my limbs back and forward and with that up and down in #

Really good alternatives and man they are good to shoot with  :)

Never shot any of them,but Black Swan Archerys
takedown longbow and recurve limbs can be ILF
compliant by installing the dovetail plunger assembly onto the upper limbs attachment bolt hole. They have some radical designs,look pretty
sweet,and push arrows to the 200fps mark. Around
$500 beans,not sure about wait time.

We have two styles of ILF risers.The Standard and Extreme they are available in 13",15" and 17".
Examples of Standard risers
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/zipperbows/redon17ILF.jpg)
Examples of Extreme risers
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/zipperbows/redone13ILF.jpg)
Bill

I have a friend that has the Hoyt Excel riser with Black Max limbs, he is trying to figure out what quiver to use with it, he likes a five or six arrow model. Will a limb bolt  model work on an ILF riser?

Tight spot

I just picked up a hoyt excel to try for hunting and found this useful thread.  Thanks