Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: razorsharptokill on December 26, 2009, 02:13:00 PM
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My new Widow I got for Christmas is bare shafting my GT 35/55's nock high left. They are full length. I had 100 grains of GT weights and a 200 gr field point.
Too weak?
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Try the grouping method with bare shafts and fletched shafts as per this link and save yourself much frustration:
http://bowmaker.net/index2.htm
Then click on "bow tuning".
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My broadheads are squirrely and hit right more often than center or left. My bare shafts hit way nock high and left too.
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Are you RH or LH and your draw length and weight of bow?
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Doug,
I don't get the rationale for bare shaft and fletched. I have O.L.'s tuning guide handy. It seems like if you get your bare shafts flying right at 15 yds. or so, the fletched shaft is only going to be "gravy" after that with the help of the fletching. I just don't get the idea yet.
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Dick,
His arrows are flying right not correct. As in right and left. LOL
Right would indicate weak shaft.
found the specs on your widow on the other thread.
Your bow specs out needing a dynamic spine of 67.9.
The arrow you have assembled has a spine of 23.4.
I see a problem!
Mike
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Thanks for the correction Mike. :knothead: I guess I should have said "flying correctly" :banghead: Still, I don't understand why you need fletched shaft comparison if the bare shaft is going where and how you want it to.
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Dick,
That would be fine if you are going to shoot unfletched arrows I guess. You will find that comparing the two will lead to adjustments in nock pt, bh, and pt weights.
I don't like bareshafting but use the BAB (big a$$ broadhead) method. When you get everything flying together and hitting the center of the target out to your range limit, well then your done.
Mike
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I am right handed. I have a fletched GT 55/75 with no insert. I put a 150 grains of GT weights behind an insert. I then screwed in a 160 gr. snuffer. It flew awesome! Nice and flat as well as straight.
Only problem is that the insert wasn't glued in. Shaft was sticking out of the back of the foam. No bh, no insert, nada... Have to wait for the snow to melt LOL!
Well at least I found a good combo. LOL
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dick,
I'm just recommending using the method O.L. Adcock outlines because it saves much, much time and frustration and leads to the same goal of near perfect arrow flight. Trying to get a bare shaft to go into the target straight is very, very difficult at best and sometimes leads us in the wrong direction because of the variables involved. Variables such as: the target material used, the distance we are shooting from, the angle we are shooting into the target, etc.
With the method Adcock describes, you get the same results, just in a lesser amount of time, usually. And it's much simpler, especially for beginners.
wingnut's preferred method with a large broadhead is another good way to get great results in tuning your trad bow. It, too, is outlined in detail on Adcock's website. ;) :readit:
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That combo should come in around 570 gr I believe for 10.1 gr per lb.
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Jim,
You didn't mention your draw length or weight, but a full-length 35/55 with 300 grains up front is a pretty limber setup, especially for a bow with a relatively high brace height.
The Easton tuning guide (available on-line) discusses the relation between brace height and spine.
Glen
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Jim,
Take the 200 gn. point off and screw a 100 gn. point on and see how it behaves then.
If it helps but is still weak, take out the heavy adapter weights and try the 100gn. point again.
Don
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I draw 28 and this bow is 56 @ 28". Yeah I thought it was pretty limber too. I want to keep the total weight up to 9-10 gr. per pound. Maybe I need to drop the point weight and load the shaft with cord?
What's weird is that some cedars that were built for a 48lb Hoyt pro medalist shot like darts.
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Wingnut..you mind elaborating on the BAB method??
Do the Ace 200 grainers qualify?
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bareshafting is a great tool in the beginning to start getting close. Especially for those who have a ton of shafts laying around in different spines (and spine testers or those that have been tested by ONE spine tester), or some different spined alum/carbons. Or for those who have friends with a crapload of shafts.
Group testing would be the next step, which at this point would almost be fine tuning. I still like to shoot through paper just for kicks.
Yes nock left is weak on a bare shaft. Nock high is USUALLY to high of a nock, try lowering it. A slight nock high is ok bareshafting. To low and you'll kick off the shelf.
I dont know why more people dont learn to bareshaft honestly before going to the ol method. It WAS the standard for quite some time, that and paper tuning. They are all tools in the bag of tricks to get your bow tuned perfect. If your form is that bad you cant bare shaft..maybe bareshafting is telling you something!
Razor, there are a lot of factors invovled in finding the right arrow...suprising or not what some will or wont do. I'd find a couple of those good shafts and find someone with a spine tester and try them. If you plan on shooting wood. You're not worried what bow those arrows were made for..you are worried more on the specifics of that arrow...total length from throat of nock to bop, tip weight, spine, and diameter of shaft. Also those nocks can play a factor in how a arrow flys, to tight on the string they'll act stiff..so if they snap on hard it's something you have to factor in!
Honestly I'd stop worrying about weight so much and find the right spined arrow that'll fly perfect. But take note what those ungodly heavy tipped arrows mean. Which is odd being adding all that weight up front even weaking the shaft more would allow it to fly better. Almost contradictory!
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Originally posted by razorsharptokill:
I draw 28 and this bow is 56 @ 28". Yeah I thought it was pretty limber too. I want to keep the total weight up to 9-10 gr. per pound. Maybe I need to drop the point weight and load the shaft with cord?
What's weird is that some cedars that were built for a 48lb Hoyt pro medalist shot like darts.
Lose the brass insert and see how 200 up front flys.35/55's are way to soft for 300grs up front.they'll be at they're limit with 200 I'd say.
OL's method is nice if you want to overthink stuff.One bareshaft shot twice at the target will tell you what you need to do(Go up or down in point weight).Ignore the nock high...you won't be nock high when you're fletched.Just pay attention to the left or right.
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why would you completely ignore an extreme nock high? It's a simple correction. It's funny you say it as that is the first thing I adjust once I find shafts that are spined close lol.
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You gotta be in the ball park because I had two LAG's that were 57 and 58 lb. I shot 29in 55/75's with 250 grain heads and both shot perfect for me.
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Originally posted by AkDan:
why would you completely ignore an extreme nock high? It's a simple correction. It's funny you say it as that is the first thing I adjust once I find shafts that are spined close lol.
Why would you move a nock point when bare shafting?You're just going to have to move it back were it was when you fletch the arrows.Makes no sense to move it level and then move it back.
The nock points will be completely different for a fletched shfated and a bare shaft.LOL
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I get the best results bare-shafting when my nock is just a fudge high. If the nock is too high, it allows a weaker spined arrow to shoot straight. I don't have to move my nocking point after bare-shafting for fletched arrows if it's just barely high.
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I also get my best fletch clearence with a slightly high nock when bareshafting...but as was said it sounded pretty dang high in the orignal posters posts. The less the fletchings have to correct for the more accurate an arrow is going to fly.
Like I was saying, bare shafting atleast for me is just the beginning of tweaking a bow to perfection. SOme are easier then others. Some things just fall into synch. Either way get close here and the rest of your tuning will come quite easily!