in your opinion...
does someone harvesting an animal, using a recurve or a longbow, but using aluminum or carbon arrows ... in you mind decrease their accomplishment?
what i'm trying to ask is if taking an animal with a stick and wooden arrows is better than a stick and carbon? or is it equal in your mind?
just curious on everyone's opinion
nope, Now if you ask if it's a bigger deal to take one with a selfbow that you built and arrows that you made from scratch and knapped heads you made yourself.
I'd say yes, but if your buying the trad equipment and hunting with a modern glass or carbon bow, the arrow choice is all the same.
Mike
Short answer, "No". I think if you start getting too specific, then you need take it to the ultimate conclusion. Wood arrows, then tapered or not; footed or not; laminated or not; type wood or not; etc. Stick, string and arrow is about it. Besides, the accomplishment and the satisfaction is to the individual.
This has been up a few times , what ever you shoot the best is the bullet for you!!
Not at all, the choice of equipment still requires the skill of an archer to complete the shot. As long as you are not reducing the draw weight or using a device to assist in release, it's all trad to me.
No it doesn't decrease the accomplishment. Hunting is a personnel choice, it shouldn't matter to the choice of your equipment. What works for you and makes you a better Shot equals out to cleaner kills and less lost game.
Al
well i asked simply because i'd love to take a deer with wooden arrows, mabey even with a stone point. however i know that even with really good wooden arrows, there is no way they can last as long as carbon arrows. i could be wrong, but i doubt it. i changed years back from aluminum to carbon, and unless you top an arrow or shoot a rock or tree they last along time. i was just curious on what others thought
A smidgen.
No. It is hard enough to get within range. You have to learn to shoot whatever arrows you use. They still need to be tuned to your setup.
Each person has value & confidence in their setup no better or worse than the next. If you got'em smoke'em.
Thats one even I can answer....NO!
It may be more special to you. Jay Massey loved building his own bows and using river cane arrows, topped with hand knapped points. I'm sure it was very special to Jay when he took a moose with his 75# hickory selfbow, and stone tips. Only you can answer that question.
That said, Fred Bear used fiberglass arrows in the early 50's, then went to aluminum in the 1960's. I would never question that choice either. 8^).
Personal choice to me...I feel better shooting wood, and in truth, I personally think shooting a traditional bow with carbon arrows is an oxy-moron. However, where DO we draw the line??? If you REALLY want to go FULL TRAD, you'd either walk or ride a horse out to your hunting area...your clothing would be brain-tanned hide...you'd knapp your heads and knife...etc., etc.
We wont Hold It Against Ya Buddy!! :archer:
NO.
A clean kill is the top priority of a hunter. so use what works best for you to insure humane kills.
If not splitting hairs....then NO there is not difference.
If you want to split hairs...then MAYBE a little more for the wooden arrow hunter only because wooden arrows are a little harder to get straight and weight the same, etc.
I hunt with what I want to hunt with, not what others think I should hunt with. For me, I want it as simple but effective as possible. By simple I mean self bow, cane or hardwood shoot arrows with stone or trade points. What anyone else hunts with is up to them. Hunting like other things in life is a personal thing. As long as it is done ethically it doesn't matter to me what others use.
I think some people confuse traditional archery with primitive archery
i understand that a clean kill is always what we each strive for. with that being said i feel that i can make an accurate shot regardless of the choice of arrow. mabey i'm coming off cocky but i think that i can kill a deer or whatever with a wooden arrow same as with as a carbon. i see all too often people blaming their equipment for not recovering or getting their game, most of which is blamed on the broadheads. nothing beats a well placed shot. i guess i was looking more at when do you cross the line and it's not consider trad hunting. at least in your opinions
Doesn't bother me one bit what someone hunts with or what they think about how I'm hunting! I do it legal and hopefully they do as well. Oh yeah, I'm havin' tons of fun doing my way!
It would be better for me because I made the wooden arrows. But that is my personal thing.
George you said it best my friend. :thumbsup:
no difference to me, if your just hunting its a great thing. Billy
It's a personal thing.
For me to shoot an animal with a self bow I made, harvested from a tree that I planted, arrows that I made from the arrow bamboo that I grow in the back yard, and points that I made from rhyolite that I hauled from a site nearby, that would be the ultimate. Also, I would have made the quiver, and would have further enhanced my camo with live branches tied to my clothing. I may even field dress the harvest with a steel or stone knife that I made as well. That (to me) would be the ultimate. Again, it's a personal thing.
Seems many go through stages of what they feel is right at a particular time in their archery career. Shoot what you enjoy,satisfaction should only be measured from within.
No, but I like to hunt with Wood....I think that you should use what gives you the most confidence so you make a clean kill.
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Glenn
Nope not all..but i have admiration for folks that go the extra mile and build woodies, selfbows, knap heads etc.... I also have admiration for folks that hunt only from the ground.....
The only person you need to satisfy is you! shoot what you want and don't worry what others think.
No difference to me. I think some people realy like making up their own wood arrows and that is great. They really do look neat, but I love my carbons.
Of course it matters!
To the person that has an opinion on everything, not his way.
Otherwise, Nope.
You can't kill anything with a carbon or aluminum arrow that a wooden arrow won't kill.The distance of an average Traditional kill shot doesn't require that your arrow be within +/- .003".We all experience different levels of satisfaction with the various equipment we choose.
I'm sure taking game with a weapon made entirely by you using only the resources found in nature gives a different feeling of accomplishment.
Not BETTER just DIFFERENT.
to me i think it would be a greater accomplishment just for personal satisfaction but i think ANY deer buck or doe is a trophy if taken with trad equipment. Personally i shoot aluminum and wood but wood is my favorite. I tried carbon and to me its out of place on a longbow or recurve but thats just me, to each his own.
I'm sure that if the stone age peoples had aluminum or carbon arrows or even quality Port Orford Cedar available to them they would've shot them instead of what they shot.
Sure, I would feel more of a sense of accomplishment had I harvested my whitetail deer with river cane arrows or even wood arrows versus aluminum or carbon. But, I wouldn't go as far as to say modern arrow materials are any less trad.
The beauty of a method is in the eye of the beholder. It's all in the individual's way of looking at it. like said above: Selfbows and knapped heads, and cane/wood arrows would be a special accomplishment.
if the arrow heads are Knapped left handed they are ok! right handed arrow heads shouldn't be allowed as everyone knows the original were done left handed tand thats only real acceptable way of traditionalist! ----------right?
A wood arrow never made my hunt any more difficult than an aluminum, carbon or fiberglass arrow...nor did the man made shafts make the hunt any easier. The odds were the same, scent elimination was the same, remaining undetected was the same, pre season scouting was the same, hanging the stand was the same, practice was the same...everything was the same. The choice of arrow shaft material never enters my mind at the moment of truth.
Anyone who has hunted with traditional equipment for very long knows that taking any animal is a great accomplishment. Taking an animal with gear that you have made yourself,(bows, arrows, points, strings) adds to that accomplishment. But in no way does that lessen anyone elses.
But those guys that shoot carbons from a selfbow still make me scratch my head..LOL
Eric
Challenge is a personal matter, more affected by opportunities for learning and the environment you hunt in than by the equipment you use. I think the key is to set the bar where whatever you use imposes a substantial personal challenge with some reasonable prospect for success.
No, but then again I don't harvest critters, I kill them.
I used to love making wooden arrows and still do from time to time. The satisfaction came more from the fact that I made the wooden arrow rather than the material itself. I put a lot of time into selecting, straightening, crowning, cresting, and fletching the arrows. Killed a lot of critters with wood, aluminum, and carbon. I haven't hunted woodies for about 5 years now. I made a great shot on a nice buck this year with a carbon. That was a lot of satisfaction regardless of the shaft I used.
I really get more enjoyment out of shooting deer with bows I've built. I always have to have some equipment with me that I made.
Putting more of myself into the hunt brings the satisfaction. For the life of me I don't see how some of these folks enjoy a hunt where everyone else does the work and all they do is pull the trigger.
When I make my wood arrows, I feel like they're all mine. When I shot aluminum, I felt like I was shooting someone else's arrows. Purely personal. I get much more satisfaction from hitting the target with "my" arrows, whether it's foam or meat. More of a sense of personal accomplishment.
I only shoot wood arrows; and could care less what material someone else uses. No, doesn't diminish that person's accomplishment at all.
How would I feel killing an animal with a synthetic arrow? No idea.
No.
Folks get wrapped up in the whole "this is trad" and "That ain't trad" thing.
I couldn't care less what other folks use.I shoot wood carbon and aluminum,but this year I'm heading towards wood because I want to.I've killed deer with carbon and aluminums,but never wood.Next season I plan to use wood.
I get great satisfaction out of shooting any arrow I didn't have to make. Have I ever mentioned "I Hate" building arrows. Way back when, I tried ti and it's just not for me. I hated shooting the ones I did make, either I could see where they weren't as good as they should have been or I hated the thought that on any particular shot I could ruin or loose something that put a lot of blood, sweat, and anguish into making. It didn't matter whether they were the woodies or the XX75's
I have found that even though I have some of all the different kinds of arrows sitting in the arrow buckets in my shop. I haven't been drawn to grabbing anything to shoot that isn't wood.
Is one more traditional than another? I doubt it Do we prefer one over another? Almost always. All any of this simply means is..... shoot what you like. Have fun, be safe!
God bless,Mudd
Carbon was wood at one thime. If you make your own shafts thats one thing but if you go to the archery store and buy them there is no diffrence. carbon wood and aluminum are the same
It's a very subjective thing, but I PREFER to shoot something with wood but honestly when I get really serious about my hunting I like my aluminum---and even carbons.
I've kilt critters with wood, aluminum and carbon. Trust me, the dead ones are all dead. As long as you take the time to make sure your arrow flies good and is placed properly......I don't think it matters what you use.
First of all, I don't shoot a longbow because someone else thinks I should. I do it because it is the most efficient weapon I have found for hunting whitetails. Whitetails are my favorite quarry. I have shot three different compound bows and couldn't hit a bull in the butt with them. Others shoot tiny groups with them. I don't care. I kill stuff with my longbow. I've used wood, aluminum and carbon arrows. I like the carbons. They shoot well, are tough as nails, and are easy to front load. Woodies shoot well, but take a lot of work to make, are easier to break, and are hard to front load. Aluminums are easy to make and tune, but are nearly as fragile as wood (they bend) and make more noise.
Is one more trad than another? I don't care. I do this for my enjoyment, not that of others.
Does it make the deer taste different?
NO!!!!!!!
I'm perfectly content shooting my recurve with my aluminum arrows! a selfbow would be a different story! Jason
not at all!1 it's the choice of weapon and the ethical shotmaking that makes it an accomplishment.
I shoot aluminium and occassionally wood, haven't gotten around to trying carbon.
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
Does it make the deer taste different?
:) not sure yet, haven't killed anything with wood yet :)
and i'm not looking to get permission or actually take advice, i'll do whatever i can afford and feel like doing :) . i was just more curious on others thoughts and opinions because i find it interesting, thanks to everyone for all their opinions/ beliefs and comments, i love this stuff :)
I do think it is a little "cooler" to take an animal with equipment entirely made yourself but not really less of an accomplishment. Unless your homemade stuff shoots poorly; then I'd say it's something more of an accomplishment! :biglaugh: I haven't made any of my own stuff though and don't care a whit. Maybe I will someday.
That I hunt and shoot with wood arrows means something to me. I may wonder about what others do, but I'm not gonna worry about it.
With any accomplishment, the more of yourself you put into it, the more satisfaction you will feel from it. I do alot of things myself, but I still have more to learn and add.
i can shoot a wood arrow just as good as a carbon or aluminum, and wood is definitely more classic, but for me wood is more high maintenance and i'm hard on things so carbons are a good choice. If you are shooting instinctive with a stikbow that's all its about.
1. I think that any animal you harvest with a traditional bow, be it a bunny,squirrel,deer, elk, bear...whatever is an accomplishment in and of itself.
2. No one, (at least IMHO), in here is gonna criticize a fella for using Carbon, or Aluminum over wood.
Good luck in your hunting and enjoy the Tradition of Traditional Archery.
Ah! who cares as long as your having fun and getting outdoors. Too few of us to be that picky.
Steve Hohensee, Hatrick and Don Stokes pretty much echoed my thoughts.
It's not that carbon or aluminum are any less traditional to me, it's just that wood arrows are what feels right to me. I've tried carbons for the last two seasons and while they certainly shoot real well, to me there is something missing. It is a part of the personal process of preparing my gear.
I don't know that there is much difference in the amount of work it takes to build one or the other either because while the process is different, the number of steps is about the same.
When I build wood arrows, there is a certain amount of forcing my will upon the shafts. They are not all straight. Not all can ever be straightened either. Still, I cull and straighten. I let them sit for a few days and check them again to see if some have stayed straight or some have warped again. Some WANT to be straight and others do not. I have to force some to become arrows. There are little victories along the way. There can be little defeats when I break one by trying too hard to straighten it. With each step, a little of myself goes into each arrow.
Wood arrows are part of what I think of when I think of traditional archery. Like sharpening your own knife and choosing to do it by hand on a whetstone. It's not that you HAVE to do things a certain way, it's that you CAN. It's part of basic woodsmanship, part of archery. Later down the road if you want to take a shortcut and use prebuilt arrows or mass produced shafting, more power to you. But I think that if you jump right into artificial shafting and components, you are missing out on a big part of the experience.
Maybe it works the other way too and artificial shafting can produce a better arrow for a beginner and help him shoot better sooner.
Like I said, I hunted with carbons for two years now but I think next year I'll be back to wood arrows. Maybe I'll bounce back and forth in future years but at least I'll know HOW to build both kinds.
p.s. Just reread the original question...."does someone harvesting an animal, using a recurve or a longbow, but using aluminum or carbon arrows ... in you mind decrease their accomplishment?"
Ah....gotta say no. I don't much care what somebody else uses as long as it is legal and they hunt by the rules. For myself only, yes, it does make a difference but not a lot.
No, good woodies are more a function of time and money than anything else. At some level there is a lot of expertise and craftsmanship but for hunting it is primarily time and money.
The only way that I would say one is more of an accomplishment than the other would be making your own shoot shaft's, knapped heads, and selfbow. All made by you of coarse.
there is alot of time and effort into making your own rig from scratch tip to string.
I've been learning how to build selfbows and arrows and it is an endeavor in it's own, Makes a guy realize just how smart our predecessors actually were.
Other than that any type of trad equipment is only as effective as the guy behind it and egually as challenging.
I shoot aluminums only out of my recurve cause they are a little quicker to build.
I'm getting my striker and plan to shoot a set up of woodies and build a set of carbons for it.
To each his own, being a member here at the gang puts you among fine company and there's a miriad of archers here wether aluminum, carbon or wood and from selfbow to laminated bow and they are some of the finest gents I have ran across in cyberspace.
If you aint do'in it with wheels and sights then your doing the hard way plain and simple. :bigsmyl:
No. Remember the fiberglass and aluminum arrows were used by many of our "heroes and mentors" of earlier times. Nobody talks down Fred Bear for using the fiberglass arrows in so many of his films.
My best friend uses wheels on his bow and we go out to hunt we both have the time of our lives and we both kill things to each his own.
Sights are fine, too, as far as I'm concerned. As long as YOU are pulling the string, feeling the power of the bow and using your muscles to send that shaft, then you are an archer.
Looking to gain status, or out-trad other folks is a blind alley that leads away from the path of the true hunt. Use what you like, what makes you feel good and works for you. Don't worry about the other guy, unless it is to say to yourself, "I would like to try that!" or "I remember doing that...it was a fine hunt." Even an "I'll never do THAT again!" is a worthy response.
This is supposed to be simple, and like hunting, and life, it is an individual journey. There are many of us, and we are all similar, but different in our own ways. Let's celebrate that, instead of cloning ourselves to a single, limited ideal.
Killdeer
I dont think so. I use wood out of 2 bows, Alum out of one and wood,carbom and alum out of one. I would like to use wood out of all of them, but I couldnt get them to fly right. I have been taking alum out here lately because I like shooting that bow the best. I'm more worried about a clean kill than wether its trad to shoot something other than wood......Roy
I was thinking along the lines of Killy!!
Don't know what all the fuss is about, I miss equally, both with wood and aluminium.
...."does someone harvesting an animal, using a recurve or a longbow, but using aluminum or carbon arrows ... in you mind decrease their accomplishment?"
NO, the "accomplishment" for me is the HUNT while using a bow, not a machine. I've hunted with stickbows shooting wood, aluminum, and carbon arrows.... and haven't yet noticed that any of them make the HUNT any different.
And I feel the same way about anyone else doing the same thing. Pidgeon-holing "traditional" regarding specific equipment has never been a good thing IMO... and the less I see of that mindset, the better I like being a part of it.
Dead is dead. :) I have used all kinds of bows but bowhunting has little to do with what you are shooting.It has to do with getting in range and making the shot.Really no difference in you know how to use whatever you are hunting with. jmho
I don't care if you shoot a recurve, a longbow, a self bow or a BB bow with carbon, aluim. Or wood arrows you are still my brothers of the bow.
Enjoy what you like
QuoteOriginally posted by Killdeer:
Looking to gain status, or out-trad other folks is a blind alley that leads away from the path of the true hunt.
Killdeer
:readit:
:thumbsup:
...."does someone harvesting an animal, using a recurve or a longbow, but using aluminum or carbon arrows ... in you mind decrease their accomplishment?"
In my mind - NO! "Traditional" bowhunting is not [ WHO I AM! ], it is part of who I am and what I do.
Charlie
Mudd - I get the feeling you hate to build arrows.
Killdeer - I very much appreciated your eloquent post.
NO does not matter. Widow
what Killy said.
If you're proud of what you did that's all that matters.
As fast as was possible, Native Americans switched from stone to metal. Why? Convenience for one, they could "trade" for a double handfull of metal heads it would take them a week to make. Durability for another, they miss an animal, no problem....just touch up the new-fangled metal point...you're good to go. No need to have to re-haft another knapped point to replace the broken one you just shot. What do you think they would thought about a fast flight strings...or carbon arrows.....? I think they were always trying to gain an edge, improve their chance at success, who knows. I do know this, as long as it is a longbow, or a recurve (all inclusive) it's good with me!
the ONLY person who can make that decision is the person taking the animal.
Who are we to judge someone else's accomplishment in this way?
You're right... that's a REALLY strange question
This is one of those questions that start to separate groups. Reminds me of a club I belong to. Shot gunners against rifles, pistols against archers. No I don't think it makes much difference what you shoot as long as you can harvest the animal humanely.
Nope, I've taken critters with wood arrows, aluminum, and carbon... What I felt with each is the same... proud!
I think the choice of arrow material adds little to the difficulty in harvesting game (much less than the choice of weapon) and therefore doesn't detract any from the accomplishment. For various personal reasons, the sense of SATISFACTION can be influenced by material choice - especially harvesting game with materials you've made yourself.
Ted
I think the choice of arrow material adds little to the difficulty in harvesting game (much less than the choice of weapon) and therefore doesn't detract any from the accomplishment. For various personal reasons, the sense of SATISFACTION can be influenced by material choice - especially harvesting game with materials you've made yourself.
Ted
I used to be of the wood arrow only for trad bows camp but really it doesn't matter one bit as to the accomplishment of the hunt. The only difference is in the amount of pride you take in crafting your own gear. There's a bit more work involved in making a good set of woodies, and quite a bit more if you make the shafts from scratch. Anything that requires more out of you will give you more back when you're successful. That doesn't take anything away from your accomplishment, it adds to it.
QuoteOriginally posted by hunterace:
in your opinion...
does someone harvesting an animal, using a recurve or a longbow, but using aluminum or carbon arrows ... in you mind decrease their accomplishment?
what i'm trying to ask is if taking an animal with a stick and wooden arrows is better than a stick and carbon? or is it equal in your mind?
just curious on everyone's opinion
As far as I'm concerned, no it doesn't. Grassing a deer with a recurve or LB impresses me, irregardless of the arrow, fletching, or broadhead.
I use alums & carbons and let me tell ya, the day someone comes up with a viable synthetic feather fletch (ie, that has the durability and weather proof qualities of vanes), I'll be the first in line to buy a couple hundred...
Well here's my two and and half cents worth.
It's all personal choice, but when I see all the technical advantages out there and they still try to call it "BOWHUNTING" I just get angry....
It was called fair chase in my day and that mean't "fair for the game and the hunter" and we had a special season for it.
We had to spend the time in the field to learn the habits of the game we hunted from squirrels to elk, bears whatever.
Now people have got themselves into such a "BUSY" world and they seem to be proud of it cause when you ask ppl how they are they SAY "BUSY" like it's a friggin medal they wear or something.....well the ants are busy too but doing what?
So then we come up with all these gadgets to give "US" the advantage cause we don't "HAVE THE TIME"to put in the field like we used to.
It drives me crazy.....I have a problem with compounds because of the gadgets and advantage it gives ppl.
When they first came out there was very little advantage..not much let off, no sights, no triggers (yes triggers - that's all those things are to me) etc, but give me a break...you might just as well have a gun now with them.
Range finders - lighted sights - TRAIL CAMS - scents - Christ the next things ppl will catch them in a net and then go out and stick it while it's in the net.
Oops loosing it again (redneck coming out).
My point is I use all kinds of different arrows and it takes me time to tune them all...if they aren't flying right..THEY AREN'T FLYING RIGHT PERIOD.
So get them flying right and practice and get out where the animals are and LEARN TO HUNT.
I haven't taken much game lately and I would love to post and animal or two BUT.....I HAVEN'T HAD THE TIME TO PUT IN THE FIELD to get that hunting SAVVY BACK.
It's my doing and it's my fault, but I am not going to turn to technology to help me there.....no TRAIL CAMS to see when and where they are coming (that's why they leave tracks)..
No range finders so I know the exact yardage...no pins so I know they are dead on the hoof as soon as I can get the range finder back in my pouch....NO 99% let off so I can shoot 90 lbs flat as a die at 60-80 yards so I don't have to get CLOSE and actually LEARN TO HUNT.
We have trouble getting close to Bison up here (well I don't, but)...know why....well when they were introduced they fead them with snow machines and hay.
they did that for years...then they told us we could hunt them (well gun hunters anyway). Then ppl would ride out on their snow machines...guess what... the bison would come running...thinking they were getting fed....
Now they are smarter and they hear one they bugger off...don't blame them...but the "SO CALLED HUNTERS" were shooting them off the machine.
Instead of using the machine to locate and then go on foot (hunting) they would drive as close as possible and start shooting...now they are shooting at tremendous distances now and as soon as they hear the whine they bugger off.
Well I saw one the last time I was out about half mile a way....it took me 2 hours to get close - 15 yards.....If it was legal to take it with a bow I could have taken him easily....he didn't even know I was there..I don't hunt with guns EVER..my choice.
I circled him and pushed him slowly to my hunting bud with his rifle and he got him about 100 yards from the road.
THEN we got the snow machine and packed it out to the road.
Anyway what it comes down to is getting more time to do the things we love to do. how you do that is your problem, but you need to buy it back somehow.
I have started down that path and the future looks bright for hunting, fishing..family etc...but I have been biting the bullet so to speak waiting and working at getting my time back.
I love reading about your hunts successful or not and I am envious. When I see you with a doe or a hog or a nice buck I am PROUD to be a bowhunter and I think BOWHUNTER is a TRAD HUNTER period.
Sorry about the rant
Jer Bear
Jerry
well said
It's a shame that the question even exists!!!
Personally I've only shot selfbows,wood,2 blades for the last 20 years.It's totally up to the hunter and the handycaps he puts on hiself.
Personally I've only shot selfbows,wood,2 blades for the last 20 years.It's totally up to the hunter and the handycaps he puts on hiself.
DEAD IS DEAD NO MATTER HOW FAST YOUR ARROW GETS THERE
Jerry,
that was great.
Dan
Whatever set of factors you set in place toward the achievement, this renders the resulting accomplishment vindicated or not..
I think that is a question each person must answer only for theirself. Personally I prefer woodies when I can find quality shafts, but the reason has nothing to do with what I or others think is traditional. Woodies are repeatable, consistant, and easily fine tuned, as well as quieter and more foregiving, and I do need forgiveness.....
Interesting topic. Me personally, I find killing a deer from the ground to be a hair cooler than from a treestand. And killing a deer with a wood arrow a hair cooler than with aluminum. That said, I still do most of my deer hunting from a tree because it usually works better, and generally use aluminums because I'd rather spend time hunting than extra time working on arrows.
All of that having been said, I think hunting animals successfully (or unsuccessfully for that matter) with traditional bows and arrows of any kid is very cool in own right. After that, we're splitting hairs in degrees of cool-ness. :)