Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Oliverstacy on December 21, 2009, 10:12:00 PM

Title: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Oliverstacy on December 21, 2009, 10:12:00 PM
I screwed up again on "Horse Head" tonight...that is twice this year that big #$%@# has given me the slip.

I had her come with the other two, another adult doe and fawn, but from the south this time.  I wasn't trying to be greedy but I had the first adult doe at about 13 or 14 yards away broadside and standing still...I then realized it was the two does and fawn that I've seen several times this year.  I looked back to see the HH doe on a trot following a string to the other two...and well I just had to wait at that point.

She drifted into the shooting lane as I was coming to full draw and was about ½" from anchor and instant release and she must have caught the movement and bolted to the same spot she did in September some 3+ months ago...I really don't like this deer.  

I'm truly beginning to wonder what I have to do to get an animal with traditional equipment.

I guess tomorrow I'll try to figure it out.

Josh
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: red44 on December 21, 2009, 10:45:00 PM
Some years an animal is tough to collect period.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: sweeney3 on December 21, 2009, 10:55:00 PM
It's tough.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: hayslope on December 21, 2009, 10:57:00 PM
Those old girls can give you fits!!!
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Colotrad on December 21, 2009, 11:00:00 PM
Patience and tenacity.  Keep on her.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: jhg on December 21, 2009, 11:07:00 PM
Josh,
I think you should make a special HorseHead Doe string. Play your favorite songs while making it. (the older the better and if Johnny Cash is in there better still!)
Then take it ouside that night, give it a name and imbue it with HorseHead Doe Mojo.


Joshua
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: kennym on December 21, 2009, 11:12:00 PM
Move your stand a bit,make her look for you! LOL

The old longnecks are hard!
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: DVSHUNTER on December 21, 2009, 11:18:00 PM
slick heads are good at busting your best setup
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: 30coupe on December 21, 2009, 11:22:00 PM
Josh,

Shoot the first one that gives you the opportunity. You have to get blood on the ground first. Then you can worry about a particular deer.

If you get that adult doe at 13-14 yards again, put her in the freezer. Horse Head will be back next year and you will be smarter and more confident. As Kenny said, an old doe is a tough target. They are every bit as difficult to take as a trophy buck. You are being schooled by an expert in that old girl.

Russ
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: xtrema312 on December 22, 2009, 10:07:00 AM
What 30 coupe said.  I kill about one big old doe every four or five years.  I will shoot 8-10 other between those.  Once they know you are around they realy get hard to take down.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: kadbow on December 22, 2009, 10:14:00 AM
Patience patience patience, it will happen.  Just keep your shooting sharp and pick a spot when that opportunity presents itself.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: 2treks on December 22, 2009, 10:18:00 AM
I was typing my response and looked up to read 30coupes and xtrema312.
SHOOT THE VERY NEXT DEER THAT GETS IN FRONT OF YOU!
  I shot that monkey years ago. waited for...(fill in the blank). went too many YEARS without killing a deer. made up my mind FOR SURE that year to do it. Had some doe and fawns coming in and busted the first one that came out from behind the brush. A tasty 54# doe fawn(aka dead monkey).
  Now, I will take up the challenge of that one horse headed doe that has laid down the challenge. But I will usually cave and bust the first deer that gets in the way. I LIKE VENISON.
  It will come, you just need to decide WHAT you want to come.
MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Chuck
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: David McLendon on December 22, 2009, 10:25:00 AM
One of my best personal trophies was an old wise doe, what it took to get one up on her was way more than most bucks. Big bucks like old men are creatures of habit and we have learned to play to their weaknesses. Many a big buck has had his bacon saved more than once by an alert old doe. They are always on point, a 5-7 year old doe is a true test of ability and like most women they remember everything that ever happened in vivid detail when we can barely remember what we ate for lunch yesterday.
Good Luck
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Spectre on December 22, 2009, 10:28:00 AM
An old doe is worse than a buck. They have radar or something-----mothers instinct.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Oliverstacy on December 22, 2009, 10:41:00 AM
At first I wasn't sure if the first two were fawns or not...the button bucks are getting big this time of year (well some of them) and I just didn't want to send an arrow into one.

The first deer was easy to tell that it was a fawn...I had seen a couple different groups of deer in that spot this year.  I had two does with two fawns each and then this old gal with a doe and a fawn.  I really thought it was a doe and two fawns with the doe being the last one so I waited.  

So as the line was making it way to me I had it in my mind the first two were fawns and the trailing deer was the doe.  I focused my attention on the last deer but I was half paying attention to all of them so I wouldn't get busted...that was when I realized the second deer was an adult doe.  There was some sticks between me and her but I could have made the shot (and should have).  But I looked back one more time and saw HH picking up the pace so I decided to wait for the big old gal.  

I'm not at a point where I'm trying to kill a specific deer but then again I not trying to kill just any deer so I have a traditional harvest under my belt.  

Oh well this was my last morning to hunt so I'm going O'fer for the 3rd year in a row.

For the record I've had more fun in the last 3 years of Trad than I've had in the most if not all the other 22 years before them with a compound.  

Josh
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Over&Under on December 22, 2009, 10:49:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by kadbow:
Patience patience patience, it will happen.  Just keep your shooting sharp and pick a spot when that opportunity presents itself.
I think we all went through similar feelings before connecting for the first time.  

Like Mark says, be patient and don't forget to pick that spot!!!

Good luck!!
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Oliverstacy on December 22, 2009, 10:51:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by David McLendon:
One of my best personal trophies was an old wise doe, what it took to get one up on her was way more than most bucks. Big bucks like old men are creatures of habit and we have learned to play to their weaknesses. Many a big buck has had his bacon saved more than once by an alert old doe. They are always on point, a 5-7 year old doe is a true test of ability and like most women they remember everything that ever happened in vivid detail when we can barely remember what we ate for lunch yesterday.
Good Luck
I really think this deer is at least 5 to 6 years old...she is a big old gal.  I have some trail camera photos of her that I will try to post later when I get back home.

I really should have shot the first doe when it dawned on me she was indeed an adult doe.

I agree they are very tough to kill!

Josh
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: George D. Stout on December 22, 2009, 10:53:00 AM
A mature doe is the most clever critter in the woods; heads above even a big buck when it comes to survival.  Patience, Grasshopper.  In this day of "I want" and instant gratification, some things need to not change.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: recurve_shooter on December 22, 2009, 08:48:00 PM
Old does can give you fits, that's for sure, especially late in the season.

Just think of how you'll feel when you finally get her or another old gal like her.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: BWD on December 22, 2009, 08:59:00 PM
The worst part about a clever old doe is she can prevent you from getting a shot at the old man.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: BEN on December 22, 2009, 09:52:00 PM
Yep----those old gals are the WORST!!!
I had one on my propoerty that had an odd patch of fur on her rump, and she always had triplets. She was the dominant doe when I bought my house 4 summers ago. I hunted her 3 yrs. and never did get her----she ALWAYS knew where I was, wether I was on the ground or in a tree!!! The first 2 yrs. was with a compound and the 3rd. yr. was when I stated Trad. Then she was gone-----don't know if she finally succumbed or just wanted to get away from me!?  

Anyway, she sure taught me a few lessons about deer hunting that I have put to use since then!!

Keep at it Josh----- I've found that with Trad gear: the hunt is just as (if not more than)fullfilling than the harvest with other gear--IMO!


Ben
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: don kauss on December 22, 2009, 09:59:00 PM
If it were easy, they'd call it harvesting.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Bruce Martin on December 22, 2009, 10:22:00 PM
They are smart for sure. This time of year when the leaves are off the trees those older does are likely the ones that will look right in your eyes and bust you! Small bucks never know you are around.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: 30coupe on December 22, 2009, 10:42:00 PM
Those old girls have some kind of sixth sense for sure. I've had them come close upwind, never look at me once, but stomp and snort and blow themselves and everything else out of the area. I don't know how they do it, but they do it really well!

Bucks get stupid during the rut, but mature does are on edge ALL the time. I managed to tag one last year and consider it my greatest kill to date. I made a great shot on a nice 8 point this year, but I called him in, he busted. Then I called him BACK and shot him...stupid buck. That would NEVER happen with a mature doe.

Hang in there Josh. Two years ago I ate tag soup, but I had a great time hunting with my son who ate the same. This year it came together for both of us. We had a blast! I wouldn't change a thing about either season. It is the hunt, not the kill. Though, I do like venison.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Whip on December 22, 2009, 10:58:00 PM
Oh, it will happen.  Just a matter of time and you have no way of knowing when that time is going to be.  Sounds like you had a great year to me!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: rickshot on December 22, 2009, 11:33:00 PM
Can't tell you how much time I put in on the buck no one could get close to or how much sleep he cost me. Finally narrowed in on where he had to be and got busted by the old girl, on my way. She ran downhill to my left and stopped within sight...did everything she could do to tempt me to follow, but always just out of bow range. I decided to play predator and followed her until I could drop off to the side, changed my approach back up the hill and finally saw him standing right in front of me, with his body straight away but his head turned backwards, facing me. By the time I figured out there was something wrong with the "stump" I thought I was staring at he slipped away. And, I'll always remember that hunt every bit as much for that doe as I do for the buck. Them old girls are the definition of smart...I'm well-pleased every time I can get close to one. Rick.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: luv2bowhunt on December 22, 2009, 11:35:00 PM
Those old does are every bit as smart and wary as any big old buck! Sometimes I think that they are even smarter. If you stick an arrow in that old doe you have done something special! Keep at it bud, you'll take her sooner or later... if not this season it will give you another year to practice up and show her who the real predator is  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: k. sisco on December 22, 2009, 11:56:00 PM
Im not disagreeing with most guys on here but here is my take on hunting does.
Are they really harder to hunt? yes and no.
Yes because they usually are moving around in family groups,meaning more eyes and ears to fool.
But on the other hand no,they move around earlier and more often than an old buck.
Meaning alot more opportunities than a mature buck.
Just hang in there and shoot any mature doe,and then if the old HH doe gives you a shot take it.
I usually shoot 2 to 3 mature does a year for freezer meat and hunt hard for a nice buck.
Good luck and have fun.

Ken
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: joe ashton on December 23, 2009, 12:12:00 AM
patience grass hopper patience then drill the old girl
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: ronnyg on December 23, 2009, 07:00:00 AM
Yea, it sounds like she got that big for a reason.  Some deer just have that extra set antennas working overtime.  I can certainly relate.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: mike hall on December 23, 2009, 07:34:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by 30coupe:
Josh,

Shoot the first one that gives you the opportunity. You have to get blood on the ground first. Then you can worry about a particular deer.

If you get that adult doe at 13-14 yards again, put her in the freezer. Horse Head will be back next year and you will be smarter and more confident. As Kenny said, an old doe is a tough target. They are every bit as difficult to take as a trophy buck. You are being schooled by an expert in that old girl.

Russ
Good advice right there........ switch things up a bit or try a little vanilla on the ground cover to divert her attention.    :campfire:
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: pitbull on December 23, 2009, 07:37:00 AM
I harvested an old doe this year and I didn't realize how old until I chewed on the first steak I ate from her. Shoe leather, only the 2nd deer I ever shot that was nearly inedible. If you like to eat venison shoot one of the younger ones, she will still be there and you can continue to play the game. I would set up in a different spot for her next time as she will remember. It will happen!
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Tom Leemans on December 23, 2009, 09:01:00 AM
There's a 1-1/2 year old doe that travels alone where I hunt. I think she has ADHD because she can't stop moving long enough or walk a straight enough line for me to shoot!
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Oliverstacy on December 23, 2009, 09:11:00 AM
Some Pictures of the old gal...notice the brisket on this one!

The time is off by 6-1/2 hours on this one...
 (http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h138/oliverstacy/MDGC0098.jpg)

 (http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h138/oliverstacy/MDGC0143.jpg)

I will get you one of these days.

I do have a friend that is going to try to get her before the years is over.  I'd love to know her true age.

Josh
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: sou-pawbowhunter on December 23, 2009, 09:51:00 AM
Mature deer are always more difficult to take, but those old does don't get testosterone stupidity.  IMHO that makes them a great trophy.  BTW, I have had a few of them mess things up enough that getting them became more of an obsession than the local stud.  :banghead:
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: rickshot on December 23, 2009, 03:28:00 PM
Maybe that game camera can answer a few questions. We used to call them real old does "dry does." It seems to reason that the does she will mingle with are her own maternal group...but she don't necessarily lay with them. These suspect does are usually either outside the other does, with a different vantage point, or blocking the door to a big buck...probably a non-participant when it comes to mating.

Anyhow, just always tossing around a theory for their particular behaviors. Can't tell 'til Spring comes whether or not any fawns will be nursing from her...video would be useful. Rick.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: jcar315 on December 23, 2009, 03:37:00 PM
I agree....what a great season of hunting!

As has been mentioned....might try moving your stand. While I don't think deer are "smart" per se I do think they do have great memories for certain things and the older they get the more memory they have to draw from.

Few years ago we had a doe like that on our farm and finally my partner had to shoot her during gun season to get her out of the way! She would bust you nearly every time regardless of wind and how long between sits in a specific stand.

These kind of chases are what make hunting great!
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: turkey522 on December 23, 2009, 03:48:00 PM
Like Kennym said move your stand a few yards.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Brian Krebs on December 23, 2009, 04:06:00 PM
I agree with jcar315 - deer do have memories of terrain. I once played cat and mouse with some deer that bedded with their backs to a swamp; and then would walk out a fence row and look for danger in the oak/hickory woods (Me) so I found a place to hide where a shot was impossible; but observation was easy. I then cut off a bush that was at the edge of a plowed field they crossed before going into the woods. I cut the bush off ground level; and moved it 6 feet to the right; and stuck it in the ground.
When those deer came out; the lead doe stared and stared and stared at the edge of the field. She didn't know what was different; but she knew something was.

I dug a hole in the middle of the day right next to the fence they walked down; and got a 6 yard shot on the buck in the bunch the next day.

I never did get that doe- but taking an old doe can really be the key to bucks and other deer coming into an area. The nervousness and caution that the does use- well it just makes other deer nervous; and they will avoid your hunting spot- even if your doing nothing discernible to them.

Deers teeth wear down; and then they starve; or succumb to disease - don't hesitate on a clean shot on her. Its hard to explain to others- when you have taken a doe- why your feeling so accomplished.... unless the others have been there too.
I have been there and hunted those old does more than once and have taken them. Its hunting at its best.

Its not just whitetails either. I had a  muledeer doe with an ear cut halfway down the middle; that was coming into my pack animal feed. For 3 years she  had new fawns with her; and then none; and I tried to seek her out and take her. I would hunt her all fall ( much to the confusion of others- as I passed up bucks to try and get her) - and every winter; she would show up again eating my alfalfa.

I am waiting for her to show up again - but I think last years winter took her.

Does may not have a tangle of antlers to show off; but they can be till the end; just one bit smarter than a hunter.

Tip of the hat for trying !! And hopefully you will get your shot !

    :thumbsup:      :archer:
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: ron w on December 23, 2009, 04:16:00 PM
Ah, the old girls......who do you think teaches the bucks how to play the game......it ain't dad!!!
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: whitebuffalo on December 23, 2009, 04:38:00 PM
Just let me have a crack at her Josh,,LOL,, just kidin,, be patient it'll happen,, Sometimes the old one in the hand rather than two in the bush really works,,it is what I live by when hunting. I don't have the time to rack hunt nor do I have the time to be picky,, My family eats deer meet and I love to eat it too so I fill the freezer every chance i get,,Take care,,J
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Stone Knife on December 23, 2009, 04:45:00 PM
we had one like that by us years ago, we called her  "The Mule"
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: m'gobo on December 23, 2009, 05:57:00 PM
Oliver...PM sent.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: illianabowhntr67 on December 23, 2009, 07:28:00 PM
I have a doe that has my number.It don't matter what way I approach my stand she is always there!If I can ever get her I swear she will be mounted.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: J-dog on December 23, 2009, 07:40:00 PM
hey man, feel your pain - this year has been whoopin me from the getgo - feel tottally like a rookie after this year. Dont think I could make a kill in a zoo!

Hunt harder I say though - stay after it - cant kill em from the couch.

J
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: rightminded on December 25, 2009, 08:32:00 PM
Yea, just shoot the first legal deer in your range.  Just gives you much needed mojo.  Keep doing it till you know you can and then get selective.  Good Luck, rightminded
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: Ethan Grotheer on December 25, 2009, 11:28:00 PM
I feel you man. A very worthy foe indeed Lol. I love hunting those old does. I concur with all the statements above concerning the challenge of taking an old horse head doe over a nice buck. I hunted and took one a few years ago with training wheels, and I still have a little venison left from her. There is a very distinguished taste to that meat. But oddly I feel like it was one of my favorite all time harvests. There really is a sense of accomplishment to taking one of those old gals.

She'll be around for you next season, and I hope you get her then...shoot some other does too.

Ethan
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: BWD on December 26, 2009, 01:09:00 AM
If her head gets much bigger, it will outside her ears.
Title: Re: I'm beginning to wonder (added some pics of her)
Post by: blueslfb on December 26, 2009, 02:18:00 AM
Being a fellow MI hunter of very pressured deer, I bet she has had a few arrows go zinging over her back and she now has a PHD on how to frustrate a hunter.

Good luck!