I have heard alot of good things about the single bevel broadhead and picked up some last year BUT how do you get them sharp?????? I ended up filing in a double bevel to get an edge. :knothead: How do you sharpen them and are they worth it?
PS: I have no trouble sharpening a double bevel head.
I don't know about the broadheads, but one sharpens a scandinavian Puuko knife, or a sailors knife(both single bevel) by laying the WHOLE bevel on the stone(or file, as the case may be). Just pretend that the whole bevel is the edge your working, and DON'T lift it and deviate from this, or you will get to start over.
There is no magic to any of the better made broadheads. They all work.
You just need to find one that fits your needs and that you can get sharp enough, easy enough. Then go for it.
ChuckC
There is a thread in the "how to" category on sharpening Grizzley broadheads,they are single bevel style,it helped me out some.Check it out.
Better yet Buy a KME sharpener and they will be razor sharp in no time.
I use the system by alaska bowhunting supply and have absolutely no problem with abowyer or grizzlys, or anything for that matter. And Ed Schlief has been a pleasure to deal with...always available to help out with a quick phone call. I just raise a burr on the "non sharpened" side, then simply polish off the burr while holding the broadhead as flat as possible to the polishing wheel. With very little practice I achieved hair popin' sharp. I wouldn't call myself sharpening challenged, but with this system I am 100% confident my heads are "razor" sharp.
Travis
Travis
os, have a look at this,
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=076335#000008
Andy.
They must be sharp or they are no more useful than any other dull head. Put through the ribs and into the lungs of an animal, they will work fine....just as well as any quality two, three or four blade that has history to it. Put in a bad spot, they will be as useless as any other.
Goerge has it right. I used Tusker SB heads this uear and got a KME sharpener. As they say up here 'It's a no brainuh!".
OS, the key to sharpening a single bevel is to make sure the nonbeveled side is flat before you work on the bevel. IMO single bevels are easier to sharpen no matter how hard the steel. Are they any better than double bevels? As long as you put'em where they belong they both do the job.
Regarding single bevels...
"Put in a bad spot, they will be as useless as any other."
If I am not mistaken, there is a whole bunch of good research to prove otherwise. Am I mistaken?
I'm STRONGLY on George's side with his statement.
Research (Ed Ashby)"suggest" single bevels perform better on bone. There are a whole lot of other kinds of "bad spots" on critters than bone hits.
Yup. Right on George , Charlie etc. Although an "Ashby approved" head appears to be able to do things that others might not, they are not magic. A gut shot is simply a gut shot. From the ground and certain elevated positions, a shoulder blade shot is typically not inside the chest cavity, a ham shot is still just a muscle cut.
Get a quality broadhead, make it sharp (find a way to do this easily or you are gonna tend to accept "whatever" for sharpness), then place it where you are supposed to. They will all work fine and have for years and years and years and . . .
ChuckC
George, Charlie... :thumbsup:
Ritchie, Dr Ashby's data tends to indicate that single bevels twist going thru substrate. Actually, that is pretty much a given. Try it on a potato or nearly anything. He also states that in bone this twisting tends to cause a split, not just pounding a hole thru it. If the bone is split and wide open, there is less pinch pressure on the shaft going thru and there is then a tendency for greater penetration.
I don't argue with any of that. The point being made is that even if it had lasers and scalpels that whirled and a roto-router. . . if it goes thru the guts, it just well.... went thru the guts. There is not a whole lot of large vasularization in that area as compared to the heart lung region.
Try to make your equipment suitable and realistic, but also try to learn the other skills such as WHERE to place that arrow (and why that is a good spot), how to control yourself so that you CAN put the arrow there, and to sharpen the broadhead, any broadhead, so that when it gets there it cuts everything in its way.
There is a lot in that statement above. A lot of skills to learn, a lot of control to learn, just a lot.
Many folks today jumped into this bowhunting paradigm and haven't yet learned all of this.
ChuckC
Richie,
I think Ashby's research shows just the opposite of what you wrote. Singles are supposed to twist and break bone. I don't know for sure because I haven't tried them. A hit in the shoulder blade is still bad, no matter what as far as I'm concerned. Even if you penetrate enough to make a kill, the likelihood of a pass-through, and thus a good blood trail, is low. It is also unlikely that you would get both lungs that way, so the trail could be rather long.
Anyone who hunts very long will make a bad shot and fail to recover an animal. It stinks, but it is bound to happen regardless of the design of the broadhead, weight of the bow, phase of the moon, or any other factor one could cite.
Richie,
Single bevels with a tanto head have been shown by Dr. Ashbys research to penetrate on bone hits better and they keep spinning giving an S shaped cut. A single bevel also gives a cleaner cut causing more blood loss. Either way single or double bevel they must be placed in the heart or lungs to give a good, clean, quick kill.
Shoot either one but make sure they are sharp and you are able to place them where they need to be to kill. :archer:
"What can a double bevel head do a single can't?
break and twist through bone
What can a single bevel do a double can't?
nothing"
Ah man..I had that completely backwards...
That was terrible.
Yeah Richie, you did have me scratching my head on that one.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=078155;p=1
I can get them sharp with a file but this takes it to a whole new level. The key is ensuring the zero bevel side is flat. Works really good and only takes a few minutes
JW
Oops , sorry. Looks like that site no longer exists.
JW
QuoteOriginally posted by Richie Nell:
What can a double bevel head do a single can't?
break and twist through bone
What can a single bevel do a double can't?
nothing
You guys know moe than I do about this but simply put..
Is that correct?
I think you have that backwards. Dr. Ashby's data shows that the single bevel breaks bone by torqueing and splitting it and the double bevel just tries to push through - so the single bevel needs less force to get through the same bone, which increases the probability of getting through and into the vitals.
Arne
ArneJ,
Yea I noticed that..I mentioned it in my next post.
I thought the question was how to sharpen a single bevel... :confused:
Like Vaughn said, first remove any factory burr from the unbeveled side of the blade. Use a file or coarse stone to do this, just make sure that it's flat and true. We do this to remove any factory defects and so that we can tell when we've raised our own burr later on. Then work the bevel side with a file till you can both see and feel a small burr running continuously from tip to heel of the blade (on the unbeveled side). At this point you can continue to work the bevel side through as many grits of stones as you like. As you polish, the burr will get slightly bigger and heavier. When the bevel side is polished to your satisfaction, all that's left to do is to flip the head over and do the minimum necessary to the unbeveled side to remove the burr. The burr can be removed with either a smooth file or stone but either way, I like to move the stone or file "into the edge" same as you would sharpen a knife. This creates a shearing action which eliminates the possibility of chasing the burr back and forth from one side of the blade to the other. Soon as the burr is gone, strop both sides on plain brown corrugated cardboard and it should be plowing hair.
Ron
Are they worth it?? If your willing to pay the asking price AND you see an improvement over your current BH.....New things/ideal come and goes....I tryed them (single bevels) shot one deer with them and went back and put on my old "Z's!!! I'll stick with them for now.
longarrow,
grizzlies are 24 dollars for six broadheads...hardly a budget busting purchase by any stretch of the imagination.
They sharpen like a chisel...Ron (Sharpster) gave you a perfect description of how to do it.
Dear ArnieJ, Richie and other interested readers.
It's not often that I visit the Pow Wow because after being on the computer and phone all day, I need a break. This thread first started with a sharpening question but then moved on to the issue of single vs. double bevel broadheads. Everybody seems to have an opinion on the subject. Some think that it is just a passing fad thought up by some marketing wizard. Some think otherwise. So I thought that I would add the following. Click on the below link and read about what an orthopedic surgeon/bowhunter has to say about the bevel issue. He gives his perspective from the operating room... and the field.
http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Single-Bevel-Chisel-Shatters-Bone-W40.aspx
Ed, with alldue respect, I am guessing that there are a number of tools available to the surgeon to cut thru OR shave bone that won't cause destruction, including variable saws. They have been doing knee and other full joint replacements for years.
The point that some folks are trying to bring up has nothing to do with discrediting Ed Ashby's work, on the contrary, I can't think of a singe person that disagrees with it.
It has to do with the rest of the story. The rest of the game if you will. Even with a high power rifle you don't TRY to shoot the animal in its leg or paunch. There is a reason for that.
Archery (OK bowhunting) is a game of placement, of sharp broadheads and of getting close enough stealthily enough to make that arrow placement happen. It is not a matter of just shooting the animal and breaking bones and then make a follow up kill shot. Frankly that is why I almost never gun hunt anymore.
We try to do it right the first time, often because we only get a first time.
Arrow placement IS AS important, no, MORE important than any quality a broadhead can have.
As I recall the first thread indeed asked about sharpening, then went on to ask if they (single bevels) are worth it. . . and the debate began.
Nobody seems to state that they are not worthy and well qualified. Just that there is more to the game.
ChuckC
I've taken big game with both and it all still comes down to shot placement. Doubles are easier to sharpen so I believe. But I'm going to stay with my singles if for no other reason than to start a discussion like this one at my local club.
Richie, I believe you are stating the facts in reverse order. Dr. Ashby and others research has shown that single bevels "break and twist through bone".
The reason I asked this in the first place is that after a shoulder injury I have dropped poundage in draw weight, In doing this I am also moving from the big SNUFFER to a two blade thus the question
Is this still on topic?
Jim,
Yea I know....I made reference to that in my next two posts.
To address the original post; I never had much luck getting single bevel broadheads sharp so I gave it up as a bad job. Single bevel have served me well.