Which type of arrows would you recommend for a Newbie!! Which will be easier to tune? Which are more durable? What size for 29" arrow with 51# @ 27" draw.
A 600 carbon or a 1916 aluminum. A 2016 aluminum may also work well at 29".
I like aluminum since the sizes are readily available to match spines to weight and length without front loading to soften the shaft. If you want to front load, go with a 29", 600 carbon, and try about 200 to 250 grains up front.
Carbon are much more durable for me....
AND easier to tune....for me. I don't even have to tune them....just cut them 29" BOP and they shoot out of everything own.
I use Arrow Dymanics from all my bows ranging from 55 to 70 pounds with bhead weight ranges from 150 to 225 grains.
My STOCK carbons weigh more that the aluminums I use to use....so don't buy the broad brush statements that they are all light weight.
I also like aluminum arrows. They're easy to tune and I tune them by using Stu Miller's free Dynamic Spine Calculator program. It will give you a tunalble aluminum arrow without a lot of experimentation. This program also does wood and carbon arrows. The DSC program is opened up automatically with Excel or the free Open Office progam.
http://heilakka.com/stumiller/
http://www.openoffice.org/
Carbons are tougher. But you're going to pay a little more for the toughness.
Gold Tip blem's are pretty reasonable if you're starting out & are making your own.
As regards arrow size, it depends on your draw length & the weight of your bow at that length.
If as you wrote, you draw 27" & your bow is #51, somewhere around 29" would be close. Longer won't hurt. As you tune, you can shorten the arrow about 1/4 inch at a time until you get good flight. You want to leave at least an inch before the back of the point for knuckle clearance in front of the shelf when you're at full draw.
If Gold Tips, I'd start with 35/55 shafts & a 125 gr. field point. As you shorten them you're going to get closer to the #55 number which should bring you near what you're looking for. You can experiment with flight & tuning by going up or down in point weight.
Some will also recommend 55/75's & add weight up front until you achieve satisfactory flight.
It's all part of the fun!! Be patient & enjoy yourself! :thumbsup:
Larry
Ever since I got turned on to Arrow Dynamics Carbon arrows... they are all I use. Like Terry, just start shooting them. I cut to 30" I like the hammer heads. I'm putting any thing from 125 to 200 up front and can shoot them out of all my bows.
I like to shoot all types of arrows. One of my friends has a bow that will not shoot a carbon arrow well at all. He tried spine, weight, legnth, and other changes, but they just did not work out like a wood or aluminum shaft would.
Myself, I just like the pretty bright feathers... :knothead: :biglaugh:
carbons are going to last longer and will not bend
I did a post a week ago called carbon vs aluminum vs wood check it out!
Check my signature....it should be very close to your stats. Perfect arrow flight for me.
QuoteOriginally posted by bornagainbowhunter:
I like to shoot all types of arrows. One of my friends has a bow that will not shoot a carbon arrow well at all. He tried spine, weight, legnth, and other changes, but they just did not work out like a wood or aluminum shaft would.
Myself, I just like the pretty bright feathers... :knothead: :biglaugh:
Perhaps your friend would do better with a different spine carbon arrow? Never knew a bow that just wouldn't shoot a carbon arrow well at all. If you find the correct spine carbon arrow for the bow, a carbon arrow isn't any different than any other arrow material, as far as tuning goes. There is a correctly spined carbon arrow made for virtually any bow. You just have to experiment until you find the right combination of point weight, length, etc.
CARBON IS THE BEST tough and recover faster than wood or aluminum oh yea! no straighting!!!
I hve used alums. for thirty years and have no reason to complain. Have only tried carbons a couple of times didn't like having to fool with point weight. I need to be more open minded and give them a honest chance, old ways seem to die hard.
Aluminums and wood for me. Don't really know why, I own them all. I guess they just seem less confusing and more stable in my opinion. And I hate carbon splinters. :)
I shot some carbons one time. The next day I had some ordered and put my aluminum's and woody's up for sale.
They shoot like darts out of all my bows.
I ordered some gold tip blems from Big Jim. I never looked back, I really love these carbons.
Also want to say another good thing about carbons, well really it is a fellow tradgangers statement that I shoot with all the time.
"Carbons are either strait or they are broke."
As a year long newbie, nothing pisses you off more than a bent aluminum arrow! I would rather have my arrow break than bend....it's just an insult! LOL!
I have had 1 Gold Tip for months and I just can't seem to break it....go figure!?!?
I'm about to order some wood AND carbons for 2 different bows. I just would rather them break than bend.
Give those Gold Tips a run...You'll like them!
i can just second the opinion of fido dog,
at the beginning you will hit things you dont wanna hit, and aluminiums will bend, and you perhaps wont even notice and you will wonder why youre not hitting what you want anymore etc.
been there done that.
and there are carbons like the cx heritages that are nearly as consistent in spine as alus and are even heavier/ the same.
I shoot a longbow mostly but also have a recurve, both 60lbs, but I have both wood and aluminum arrows. I mainly shoot aluminum arrows and agree with Byron Fergason as to why he went to aluminum arrows.
Later,
FB
I have shot carbon arrows out of trad bows for years and wouldn't consider anything else. My arrows weigh anywhere from 785g to 950g and fly perfect, or at least as good as I can shoot them.
I have shot a 785 g carbon express out of a 84# bow dead into a steel saw blade only to have it bounce back at me unharmed. Well that was the first shot. The second shot, I shoved the insert back about 3/4". I just can't hit that hole in the saw blade @#$%@#$. I probably have 200 field tips stuck in the trees around my 3D range and seldom ever a damaged shaft. Oh yeah, I never ever bent one either.
good luck, BigJim
35/55 Gold tip Blems are all I shoot. Reasonably priced, pretty durable and never bent. 100 grain brass inserts up front in addition to my 125 grain broadhead. Weighting up the front really made a noticeable difference in penetration and is worth the time and the extra cost IMHO.
I shoot arrow dynamics and have all cut at 30" and shoot bows from 55-61 pounds and broadheads from 125 to 220 grains.
Aluminum is easy to tune, easy to cut, easy to glue, easy to 'un-glue' and cheap. Durability depends on the size (2016's bend pretty regularly, 2018's don't).
Carbon is tough. You'll need a high speed cutting wheel. Can be fussy to tune and more expensive. I don't like the idea of a carbon shaft breaking inside and animal an ruining meat, nor do I like the idea of it breaking on release and getting a handful of carbon fiber.
That said, I shoot both. The spine calculator by Stu Miller already mentioned has been right on so far, so give it a look before you buy to get in the ballpark.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
My STOCK carbons weigh more that the aluminums I use to use....so don't buy the broad brush statements that they are all light weight.
The other night after offering someone my carbons to try on his ELB i was told that you can't shoot carbons out of an ELB cause they're too light and it would damage the bow - too low GPP!
I then pointed out to the guy that my carbons weighed more than his wood arrows - he still refused to try them though. There's lots of funny information out there.
But back to OP's question - i love carbons. I started off shooting with wood and got fed up with breaking them and having to straighten them - whereas i haven't broke a carbon since i started shooting them in August and they don't need straightening. Haven't tried aluminium and can't see any reason to as they bend and my carbons do not.
A debate that will never end!! until they quit making aluminum arrows that is.
They are already difficult to find. I'm told so by everybody who calls me looking for them or the customers coming into our show tent at events looking for them.
I have to disagree(of course what we expect)about the difficulty of tuning arrow and weighting them down. I have absolutely no difficulty whatsoever tuning arrow for my customers or myself. Amongst most of the other advantages, there are usually only 4 spine groups to choose from. Unless there is something terribly wrong, with some effort, you can typically make two different groups shoot out of the same bow, although one will certainly tune easier and shoot better. How many differen't groups do you need to go throug with aluminums to find the "just right" one.
You can cut carbons with a dremmel, or there are other saws out there that can be purchase for as little as $35. In the rare event that a shaft were to break inside the deer and ruin any meat, it would be extremely minimal. Besides, shoot them in the ribs. Not much meat to ruin there.
I am a sucker, I get lured into these things all the time.
have fun, bigjim
alums are fine for shooting into relatively soft butts and foamies, but from my experience they just can't cut it when roving afield with judos and field points - they bend far too easily.
carbons are by far more durable and never need straightening.
forget the carbon arrow sizing charts - go weaker than suggested.
for a bow that's 51# @ 27", a 29" beman ics bowhunter 500 should do you well. look to create an arrow around 10 gpp and load as much weight up front as possible.
my 29.5" beman ics 500's weigh 255 grains (nock, 4" four fletch, alum insert) - if you were to use a 125 grain point (field, judo or broadhead) epoxied to a 125 grain steel adapter you'd have an excellent arrow setup that's real close to 10 gpp and with an efoc of around 25%.
for a heavier shaft and even higher foc, substitute a 100 grain brass insert instead of the 40 grain alum.
Nothing beats Carbon for durability, but make sure you flex them after you hit something hard or you might find out the hard way like some knuckle head I know very well how much those jagged pieces of carbon fiber hurt when you are pulling the out of you skin. :eek:
I'd second Rob's arrow setup. That is just about identical to mine. I wouldn't worry about a carbon arrow breaking in a critter. Mine shoot right through. The only deer I have shot with an aluminum arrow broke my arrow. The ones I shot with carbons didn't. I also couldn't get the high FOC I do with carbons. That said, my son shot right through a big old Iowa buck this year with his 1916s and 150 grain Woodsman.
The worst part of aluminum arrows, as far as I'm concerned is they can be loud, especially if they get bent just a little...not enough to really affect arrow flight visually.
The ICS Bowhunters that Rob mentioned are no more expensive than aluminum arrows. If you consider how much longer they last, they are much cheaper. I tried several other carbons, including Gold Tips, but these were the easiest to tune of all.
Carbon, aluminum or wood are all good arrow materials. All three have killed countless critters and will continue to do so. Beman ICS Bowhunter 500s work great for me, don't break the bank, and I haven't managed to break one yet...well, I did Robin Hood one, which messed up about 1/2" of the tail end. I just stripped the feathers off, turned it around, added a 100 grain brass insert and aluminum footing, refletched, and use it for stump shooting. Now it's virtually indestructible! It is kind of heavy though :rolleyes: