I've finally found a 15&1/2 foot square stern canoe I plan on useing for hunting as well as fishing, does any of you happen to have any pics, experiance, or both I would like to see them or hear them if you do! I'm purdy excited about this!! :thumbsup: Jason
Kewl!! I always wanted one of them sit-on-top kayaks..
I've used one before and they work fine on small water. Just depends on what type of water you are traveling. Boats add a lot of adventure to bowhunting and can get you into some places where nobody else goes. I hunt from a boat quite bit - currently have a 16' War Eagle flat bottom boat. Have fun.
Kayaks are great for fishing & bad for hunting. Canoes are hunter's ticket to solitude. Get the longest widest you can find. I've had (3) canoes all 17'. The last was a Grumman wide body perfect for hauling everything including gear, gadgets, & game. One man can handle it alone if need be. Also important is the canoe rack for the truck. It will make hauling much easier.
I've been looking at one called nucanoe. Its a kind of hybrid betweeen a canoe and kayak. This way I could use it for fishing and duck hunting on marshes and small waters. Would like to bowhunt and bowfish with it too.
Any future hunting trips would probably be based out of a base camp with paddling each day from the base camp..not long multi-day float trips.
I love square back canoes, they're stable as far as canoes go, have a pretty good weight capacity, and work equally well for both fishing and hunting. Great thing about the square back is how easy it is to mount a motor if you so desire, but they paddle nice too. I think you'll have a ton of fun with it!
I personally prefer the kayak myself. I use a 16' extended cockpit 2man kayak that allows me to lay flat in it for ducks.
It's also great for bowfishing once you get the hang of it.
The thing I like best about the kayak over the canoe is that it is much more manueverable, and not affected by the wind. I've had days in my old canoe where navigation was almost impossible due to heavy winds which kept blowing the front of the canoe off course.
The square back canoe is great if you are using a motor or carrying alot of weight. Either way, using a boat for hunting is a blast. Good luckk,
Bill
My first canoe was an old flat back and I did a lot of learning in that boat. About 35 years ago I went bow fishing down a river, got caught up in some swift current and dump it. I never did recover the bow and at the time it was an expensive lesson, but then it was only a compound.
I boated into my stand in Iowa last year for this guy (10 ft jonboat with electric motor):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/08IowaBuck2cropped.jpg)
The boating had less to do with access or getting away from folks and more to do with being sneaky (getting in the backdoor to the bedding area). Here's the boat eye view. I park the boat by the big oak on the right and the stand is in a big oak at the back of the cove to the left.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/DSC00992.jpg)
Deer eye view of the stand (you'll see it peeping out from behind the cedar tree).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/DSC00990.jpg)
This is one of those rare setups that worked out as planned. Killed the buck within the first hour of the first morning I sat this stand.
I've also spent quite a bit of time boating into public areas in IN (gettting away from other folks) using a canoe, or my favorite, our plastic 8 ft pontoon "bassboat".
Ryan
Jason,
I just used my canoe to go hunting for the first time this year. Bill Watts already brought up the effect wind can have on handling your canoe, and he is spot on.
Since we usually hunt in cooler weather, be mindful of safety, buy a "dry bag" to carry extra clothing. When something goes wrong' don't try to tough it out in wet clothes, strip down and get into dry duds fast.
Transport of your canoe can be made very easy with a device Cabelas' sells, Called a canoe caddy, it fits in your hitch receiver, and allows for easy loading and unloading when you are alone.
Have fun
Don
I have a sweet 16' Michicraft square stern with a 6 horse motor available for sale if someone is interested. It is a very stable alluminum boat that has been a great carper.
PM me
Bob Urban
They are the ticket when in comes to getting in away from other hunters. I hunt public ground most of the time and they are very useful. I have a 15 foot canoe/kayak hybrid that has served me well over the years. Dry bags are a good idea. I also use plastic containers that they ship 2 liter bottles of pop in, they are light weight and keep my equipment dry up off the hull.
I use Google earth to look for pinch points along the rivers and stream. Then do ground truthing during the spring and summer.
The best advice I can give you is get to know your canoe. Take your canoe out and load it down with gear, they will handle differently than they do empty.
Have fun
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/bluegill68/Picture207.jpg)
I have used a 10' flatbottom. Works great. I bet the kayak would be alot easier to steer.
My TG handle "Morning Star" is actually the model of canoe that I use for hunting / fishing. Ya can't beat paddling in....in the dark and paddling out in the dark. Many of my favorite hunts have taken place because of my canoe.
It's made by Bell Canoe Works. It is very stable, great load capacity, easy to paddle, solo or tandem, and is only 58lbs. You can't find just one canoe design that'll do everything, but the Morning Star is about as versitile as I've come across.
You're gonna love having the canoe.
I live on an island, so boats are part of life. I have had canoes, a 17 footer worked well for 2 guys and a quartered moose. By wearing hip waders we were able to walk the canoe in right to the moose, dragging it over beaver dams both ways. Saved us a lot of work.
I have a 2 horse motor that putt putts along on longer trips, when it is worth the bother to use it. Weighs about 25 lbs. This would work great on a square stern rig, I have to use a side bracket on a double ender.
Seems like deer tolerate you getting a lot closer in a canoe or kayak, if you just coast up with no paddling or maybe a sneaky sculling stroke.
I am using a kayak now, which is better and worse for reasons already stated. It is dryer and warmer in the rain when I use the spray skirt. But for just hunting and hauling large loads what you have is the ticket.
If you are going against current, learn how to line a canoe upstream by making a continuous loop from bow to stern with 30 to 40 ft of rope. You shift where you are holding the line until the bow catches the current to stay away from the bank, and just walk along the bank pulling it through swift water. Attach as low as possible to minimize tipping.
Various dry bags are handing for camp gear or lay a tarp in the canoe, load things in and fold the ends over and tuck to surround the load with the tarp.
Have fun, and wear your PFD.
I love my canoe!!!
Used to have a fiberglass/wood flyfishing canoe made in Stowe, VT. It was a bit heavy (especially loading and unloading from atop a suburban), but it sure was stable.
I used it quite a bit to bowhunt in New Hampshire when I lived there. I had a mill pond between the house and property that I had permission to hunt. Certainly was convenient. I regret selling that canoe! Would love to use one like it again.
What the $#%& now I have to find a canoe,Thanks guys real nice,way to spark my interest,and send me on another quest.
I used to hunt with boats a lot to access remote areas to get away from the crowds at public hunting land.I used my fishing boat,cut some old carpet to put in the bottm to shield from the mud and blood,took all the seats out for room,wear knee-high boots, and keep your life jacket on,it's tuff to see those stumps in the dark, and sometimes it's tough to get the deer in the boat!
This one is 42" wide 15'5" old town predator the fella has a canoe rental buisness and this one was an extra, sold it for cost! that's about half the price it retails for. I went to another buddies tonight and he just happened to have an aluminum ladder rack that fit my little truck perfect! I'm just gonna buy a short shaft trolling motor for now! this spring come turkey season it's gonna be game on!! can't wait, Jason
This is just the sort of thinking that prompted me to make an Adirondack Guide Boat for myself, 16' long and extremely stable and it turned out beautiful. It is cedar strip built with fiberglass inside and out with 7'6" oars. Building one is fun (if you have the room) but it is addictive. I would like to build more but the wife put the halt on that. There are loads of resources out the for plans and such. The guide boat is heavy 70-90# but it so stable compared to a canoe and can hall all your gear, just something to think about, winter is here.
The wife and I are getting a 22 foot Scott "Hudson bay" canoe in the spring. I have a 25 horse motor for it and In my opinion freighter canoes are the ultimate go anywhere fresh or salt boats! I guided for both sea kayaking and white water and kayaks are great but they can't haul the 2,000 pounds the Scott is rated for, its virtually impossible to mount a motor on a kayak and you can't get up and stretch in a kayak. I can run a 22 foot freighter standing!
PS freighter canoe = square stern designed for a motor in this case.
This year I bought a used 12ft Meyers sprotspal canoe. Works great, can't wait to harvest a deer with it. I picked one of my favorite lakes on google earth and located the farthest point from a road or parking lot that would make it a real pain to walk to, never seen another bowhunter either (to much work). Seen 2 seperate flocks of turkeys and a nice rub last time I canoe hunted. I know where I'll be in the spring.
Funny this thread popped up. I just bought a 12 foot sit on top kayak from Native. Its seems like its gonna fit the bill for hunting cant wait to get out on it this spring.
I would like to know how you guys manage to get into and out of a kayak with your hunting duds on without getting wet/tipping over. I bought an Old Town Predator, had it out once and sold it. Water dripping off the double blade paddle into my lap wasn't fun, even with the things on the paddles to deflect the drip. Can't imagine trying to hunt with one. I'll stay with my Old Town Penobscot 16 footer.....Dave
My opinion ( I have a canoe, kayaks and larger boat) Wind is not so much a factor where I tend to use one. This would be smaller lakes and ponds and rivers / streams. A canoe is fine and in fact, I can haul two men and their gear in.. and all that plus a deer out, with the canoe. Most kayaks will not allow that.
For big water that can get rough, well a larger boat with a motor is the answer there. Just safer, especially loaded down. Remember, you are going out there to kill a deer (or larger game). You need to be able to get it back to your vehicle.
Kayaks are cool, and I like to fish and duck hunt out of them, but for deer hunting, my opinion is as above.
ChuckC
Kayaks are pretty cool, but for load and capacity....canoes are the way to go. If you pick a good hull design in a canoe, there won't be much difference in paddling.
I have hunted and gone on heavy and long trips to Canada with my various canoes. My Bell Northwood would be my choice for handling heavy loads and dangerous conditions. As far as handling in wind and waves, I have paddled in two to three foot seas often with my Northwood and my Seliga. The thing about square back wide canoes, they are great when there is a motor and have vehicle access to the water, but slow and difficult without power. If you have to carry your canoe you would be happier with something lighter weight. But in high winds going alone a canoe like a 16' Souris River or a similar symmetrical 16 footer paddled backwards with a kayak paddle will get you around and still carry your game out with capacity to spare and plenty of stability. The Bell Morning Star is an asymmetrical canoe, great boat but it does not like to go backwards, they do solo nice from just back of center from the kneeling thwart. Now I have to go out to the garage and pet my canoes, it is a long time to wait for the soft water season.
QuoteOriginally posted by David MItchell:
I would like to know how you guys manage to get into and out of a kayak with your hunting duds on without getting wet/tipping over. I bought an Old Town Predator, had it out once and sold it. Water dripping off the double blade paddle into my lap wasn't fun, even with the things on the paddles to deflect the drip. Can't imagine trying to hunt with one. I'll stay with my Old Town Penobscot 16 footer.....Dave
Water dripped into your lap because you neglected to get a spray skirt. To stay dry while landing use proper landing technique, it's not a canoe and had you taken a basic class you would have gotten the instruction you needed. I'm not going into how to land your kayak here because there are several ways to do it depending on conditions and you already sold your Kayak.
I use a 14 foot jon boat with a 10 horse motor. I use it to access public land and get away from the crowds. I have killed some nice deer with it. It makes it easy to drag one 100 yards to the boat verses 1.5 miles uphill to the road. I also have a sit on top kayak that I use for flyfishing. The kayak would be ok for small game but I would not attempt to haul a deer on it. Boats give you access to places that most hunters won't make the effort to get to.
Amen,flyfixer,back that Lund into the water,pull the rope on the trusty Mariner25, and about 30 minutes of cool boat ride down the mighty Mississippi,ease her up on the sand, and head to the spot,put the ol' man on the tree and climb on up, wait for sunrise...
Hi Folks.
This is my favorite method of bowfishing. All the fishing is done from the kajak. This is not as simple as it looks, it is made more difficult by being at water level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g07TLllL8Y
Have fun with your boats.
Daniel
Now that looks like fun.cool place too. :thumbsup:
I got mine home the other day, this thing is bigger than I expected. I'm danged excited about this! headed to BPS today to get me a trolling motor, hope to find me a nice used 4.5 johnson to put on the back! bad part is I'm already looking for a bowfishing rig! HA! o'well it's all good! Jason
QuoteOriginally posted by yononindo:
Hi Folks.
This is my favorite method of bowfishing. All the fishing is done from the kajak. This is not as simple as it looks, it is made more difficult by being at water level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g07TLllL8Y
http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad132/yononindo/Yononindocarp.jpg
Have fun with your boats.
Daniel
I've tried hunting out of canoes, kayaks, ski boats, just about anything that floats. This one serves my needs the best.
(http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g144/spencsj/bw001.jpg)
Yononindo,
Yeah, it takes some getting used to for sure.
Sometimes a fella's gotta cheat a little.
(http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab129/billwatts2/P6270012.jpg)
Although raising ones line of sight in a kayak is an endeavor that is not without mixed blessings.
(http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab129/billwatts2/P6270014.jpg)
Still one of the funnest things I've ever done.
Hi Bill.
Yononindo,
Yeah, it takes some getting used to for sure.
Sometimes a fella's gotta cheat a little.
What do you exactly mean by that???
We should get together one day and have us a little bowfishing.
(http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad132/yononindo/Kayak.jpg)
(http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad132/yononindo/Carp.jpg)
(http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad132/yononindo/MollyFish.jpg)
(http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad132/yononindo/Camp.jpg)
Waiting for spring ..
Daniel
A few pics of my boat...
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0205.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0506.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0317.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/inboat.jpg)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0386.jpg)
Sweet pics guys! Just got a boat and cant wait to use it next year.
I've hunted from kayaks, canoes and flat bottoms. I have spent the most time in a canoe not just hunting but on canoe treks as well. I've paddled a canoe thousands of miles and in my opinion they are the best of both worlds. They can carry alot of crap, for extended outings, they are fairly stable, once you are used to them, and not to big a deal to portage. Kayaks are of course more agile and easier to portage, but carry less crap and are less forgiving for mistakes. I love them for trekking but for hunting, not so much. Flat bottoms are wonderful platforms for bowfishing, hunting, camping etc. But if you have to portage one o'them babies, you are in for a long day. They are heavy. It absolutely depends on where you are hunting, lake, slow moving river, fast river, as to what will work best for you. I like them all but I fish from a flat bottom or canoe and hunt from a canoe, its sneakier. Just my opinion hope it helps.
Hillbilly
Yononindo,
"What do you exactly mean by that???"
Sometimes I shoot off my knees as opposed to sitting, which although it makes the angle of the shot a little higher, sometimes means rolling the kayak.
You've got some pretty unusual carp there. Here's a freak I shot this last spring on the Saginaw river that had about 1/2 it's scales.
(http://i856.photobucket.com/albums/ab129/billwatts2/scales.jpg)
Yes, we should get together to do some bowfishing. Where abouts are you?
Watts
Bill, we have several types of carp here. I believe that the "freak" you got was called a "mirror carp" and they have some with scaling like yours and others with no scales at all.
ChuckC
I have to agree about a canoe in inclement weather.
A few years ago I was paddling alone in an aluminum canoe in the winter. The bow was lifted out of the water due to my weight with me sitting in the stern.
It was calm paddling in the cove, but when I rounded a point and turned into the wind, a strong gust flipped the canoe over so fast I didn't know what happened until I was in the water.
No worse for the wear, but a good learning experience.
The moral - Be careful in inclement weather in a canoe.
Theres nothin better than hunting out of a canoe. Used to have a square stern with a 2hp evinrude. Felt like I was going take off in that thing. Now I hunt out of a 17' wenonah tandem with a removable sling seat in the middle. There are some great books about float hunting and canoeing out there, some great vids too. check out Bill Mason. Have fun.
Nice pictures and videos. Now I am more inspired to try the B and B. :-)
Think I might try my kayak or canoe to access some hunting area next season. Gotta find a way to carry the bow on the kayak.
They make stabilizers for canoes. Do any of you guys that use yours for hauling lots of gear, and maybe deer have any experience with them. Seems they would add greatly to the safety factor. I used to have a SOT kayak and I made a pair out of crab-pot bouys and pvc and they were nice. They were adjustable and easily removed by using Scotty Rod Holders. I could stand-up with them on.
Remembering this old thread got me wanting a canoe/kayak. There is so much that needs to be explored. I can't wait to pick up my Nucanoe in a few weeks.
I have a 15 ft Grumman Sport Boat which is a fairly beamy square stern canoe. I run a 6hp Merc or a 2 hp Honda depending on situation. Its a versatile setup hunt/fish/camp and general knocking around. 110 lbs , have it on a trailer.
I also have an Old Town Pack that is about 11 ft and 33 lbs. Unless I am camping this usually gets the nod when bowhunting. I like to use it for access as it is light and quiet. Very handy but also small when it comes to carrying out a load.
Overall I think a 15-16 ft tandem that can solo is the sweet spot for a bowhunter (and overall). Forget price and buy the right boat. Canoes are one of the best deals going for what they offer the practical sportsman.
My hunting canoe and general messing around in rivers and ponds is a Kevlar Mad River, It had a small skid spot that needed fixing. The boat retailed for $2500 at the time, I got it for $500 and a small strip of Kevlar and epoxy for $10. It works well enough for Canadian canoe trips as well, with loads that get close to 700 pounds. I have found that flat bottom canoes are slower when soloing and more reactive to waves than shallow Vs or shallow arc canoes. The flat bottom canoes do not rock as much when you move around in them, but have limited secondary stability when challenged.
I use a boat to access most of my hunting spots. It makes it easier to get away from the crowds but best of all it makes it easier getting animals out.
(http://i.imgur.com/66PFov0.jpg)
These days I live aboard a 26ft sailboat, and bowfish off out of the cockpit all the time.
When I lived in Oregon I bowhunted deer and small game along a lot of the small tributary rivers off of the Willamette and Columbia. I used a 14 ft x 30" wide 'john boat' that I built from a sheet and a half of 1/4" ply. Sort of like a Cajun Pirogue. Dead-flat bottom with square (not flared) low sides so I could paddle with a seakayak paddle, and a 1x2 keel to help it track straight.
I have a 13' fiberglass canoe that I bought back in the mid 80's. It's been a great hunting partner over the years. I used it most when I hunted some land along the Unadilla river. It wasn't a big chunk of land, but it was thick and mostly used as a bedding area. I found a place where I could come in from the river without disturbing the deer, and made a brush blind where three trails intersected. I had some good times hunting that spot until it was sold.
I'm a firm believer in flat bottom canoes, especially in hunting weather. I'm also a firm believer in tying everything that you don't want to lose to your canoe, just in case you go over. Id also say to stay away from the models with an inverted keel. They're made for quiet water, and don't track worth a darn in anything with much current. Have fun, and hunt safe.
Bob
Two old farts just hanging out!
(http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q291/bjornweb/DSCN1704.jpg) (http://s139.photobucket.com/user/bjornweb/media/DSCN1704.jpg.html)
You really don't need a square stern canoe to run a motor. This Old Town Tripper has a bolt on bracket in the rear and a 2 hp Suzuki outboard on the bracket. It runs like a scared rabbit. My grandsons are paddling in to the dock with it shut down. I gave them this rig two years ago since they live within walking distance to the river.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0603/reddogge/Fishing/IMG_2172_zps6lo7uaxd.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by DannyBows:
They make stabilizers for canoes. Do any of you guys that use yours for hauling lots of gear, and maybe deer have any experience with them. Seems they would add greatly to the safety factor. I used to have a SOT kayak and I made a pair out of crab-pot bouys and pvc and they were nice. They were adjustable and easily removed by using Scotty Rod Holders. I could stand-up with them on.
I did the same thing Danny for my 16' canoe with the crab pots. I tell ya though since I lowered my seats I have noticed a difference in "feel", even my daughter is more comfortable.
Just been used to my yak and it is utmost stable, daughter loves the yak -- Took me awhile to get used to the canoe. Daughter even more as she is used to a 20' skiff.
If I am taking wife and daughter and camping, hunting, fishing gear then the canoe. Me with gear hunting camping fishing -- then yak. Wish I'd made a kill this yr with it but no dice.
Bows and canoes I really like to get away more often solo with my Old Town camper 16' but sometimes let my nephews come with me.
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/Kip_album/DSCN1064-1.jpg) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Kip_album/media/DSCN1064-1.jpg.html)
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/Kip_album/DSCN1065-1.jpg) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Kip_album/media/DSCN1065-1.jpg.html)
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p191/Kip_album/190.jpg) (http://s128.photobucket.com/user/Kip_album/media/190.jpg.html)
Like everything else, the "best" boat depends on where, how, when and who is using the canoe or kayak, and its usually a matter of compromises. On moving water, my 16' Old Town Kennebec, a big whitewater boat no longer made, is ideal for hauling large loads, up to 1100 lbs ...unsinkable, indestructible, can be paddled solo or tandem, basically a bathtub with pointy ends. But it is a lot of work to paddle solo on flat water and virtually impossible to track into the wind on big water. For this reason I have a 2.5hp short shaft outboard and side mount. I also have a "saddle" made out of a giant block of styrofoam so I can paddle solo from a kneeling position with absolute stability and maximum control in moving water, but it is also perfect for shooting a bow . My 18' Old Town Columbia has half the payload capacity but moves easily through big swamps and lakes without a sound. My sit-on-top kayaks, 11' and 12', are great for fishing and playing in the boulder gardens in the river and paddle easily enough to be enjoyable in the swamps and even in the surf. I can scuba, jump shoot waterfowl and shoot carp from a SOT, but there's definitely no room or capacity for hauling out a big buck. you also get wet in a SOT kayak, so you have to dress appropriately..Gore Tex pants or bibs work great.
Thanks guys, now I'm looking at a radisson! Had a canoe a few years back and loved it. Went to a motor boat but just wasn't the same and always wanted another canoe. This thread made the itch worse
I am actually looking at getting a Native Watercraft Ultimate FX 12 footer. Anyone have any experience with these hybrid kayaks?
DaveT, I have a Native Manta Ray 11 and a MR 12. The Ultimate FX is a great boat!Very high quality hull and fittings . Design retains a lot of the form and function of a canoe. The Hi-Lo seat is also very handy for adjusting stability and POV ( a 200 lb buck in the bottom of the boat significantly improves stability !)
If maneuverability is not an issue , you might consider the 15 FX or even the 15FX tandem which gives you the option of a buddy... noticeably faster hull to paddle and significant increase in load capacity. Only a bit harder to load .
QuoteOriginally posted by DannyBows:
They make stabilizers for canoes. Do any of you guys that use yours for hauling lots of gear, and maybe deer have any experience with them. Seems they would add greatly to the safety factor. I used to have a SOT kayak and I made a pair out of crab-pot bouys and pvc and they were nice. They were adjustable and easily removed by using Scotty Rod Holders. I could stand-up with them on.
I've found they aren't needed in a canoe provided you stay low and keep your center of gravity low. A dead deer on the floor along with your gear will give you plenty of stability. You just have to learn to move with the boat. Don't ever grab the gunwales when they rock. Paddle on your knees and you can withstand anything.
Right now kayaks are trendy but canoes are the workhorses of paddlecraft and always have been especially to haul lots of stuff and heavy loads.
DaleT I have a native ultimate 14.5 solo. Great boats, the fx versions are even better. Stable and will haul a LOAD - hailed all kinds a camping/hunting gear coolers.
You won't regret it, I was standing and poling mine first time out.
Course ha swamp it it is swamped!
I was talking to a Trad Ganger on the phone last night. He has a Poke boat which is a stable, light (less than 30 lbs) sit-in open cockpit kayak made for duck hunting with a 450 lbs capacity. No one boat will do it all but I imagine the canoe is as versatile as it gets. I went with Nucanoe because for its versatility and 650 lbs capacity. The ability to self-bail sold me since I also want to use it for fishing a few island flats in the Chesapeake. I was real close to buying a Native Ultimate but it came down to having those scupper holes in the hull.
Mike - I believe the FX version has the holes to bail out water?
Hi Dave, the Ultimate is a single layer hull without the holes. The Slayer is a self-bailing sit on top with scupper holes. I think the main improvement of the Ultimate FX was a wider foot platform molded in for standing and the adjustable height seat.