I received a Spine-O-Meter as a birthday gift this week and have been having fun playing with it. It is very consistent in checking the shafts I have, as I've checked the same shaft multiple times on it and it always reads the same. It has readings for carbon, wood, and aluminum spines. It was funny to put a 2216 on it and see the reading bounce right up to 2216 :) Some of the shafts I checked weren't nearly as consistent, however. The Arrow Dynamics Trad shafts I have had 7+ pound spread between 6 of them, and most had at least 5 pounds in spine difference around the diameter of the shaft...there were basically two groups of shafts within the ADs, shafts that were between 94 and 102 pounds in spine around the diameter and ones that were between 90 and 95. However, all carbons are certainly not equal ;) All 6 Carbon Express Heritage shafts I have read either 94.5 or 95 lbs on the tester. My Grizzlystik Safaris were better than the ADs as far as spine goes. Three read 120 lbs, two read 118 lbs, and the other was 114. I weighed them all, however, and they have at least a 15 grain spread in weight :( I also tested two of my Surewoods that were in the 90-95lb group (they came in a test pack), and they both came out to exactly 93 lbs, and they were within 5 grains of one another on my scale...I like them a lot so far :D
The Surewood shafts actually surprised me with their consistency around the shaft. Most only had a 3 to 5 pound spine range around the diameter. I have so many arrows I plan on checking with this thing..I'm anxious to see how my Axis shafts fare. I think it will be a valuable tool for separating hunting from stumping arrows ;)
Craig
One of the reasons I don't shoot AD shafts is precisely because I found what you did...way too much variation in spine. Having a spine tester and grain scale are really two things every archer should invest in. They open a lot of eyes that would prefer to stay closed
I was very disappointed in the ADs AND the Grizzlystiks for my personal needs...I honestly think I'll be able to get the Surewood shafts matched better...looking forward to seeing how the compressed cedar shafts fare as compared to the Surewoods.
Craig
It can also give you the reason why "that one arrow just wont fly right"
Eric
Without a doubt!
I came to the same conclusion as you....some carbons are not well matched at all!
Also made me realize that my wood arrows were as well or better matched that a lot of the carbons on the market.
You can learn a LOT with a good spine tester. Many shooters will weigh their arrows but far fewer will spine check them, especially if they're not shooting woodies.
All the above is why i shoot aluminum. You buy a 2216 a year from now and it will be the same as the one you bought yesterday.
Love my spine-o-meter! Use it all the time.
QuoteOriginally posted by wtpops:
All the above is why i shoot aluminum. You buy a 2216 a year from now and it will be the same as the one you bought yesterday.
Now im not putting down anybodys choice of arrow but for me and the little man in my head that bounces all around my skull when my arrows dont match, my wife named him the little anal guy, i will shoot aluminum to keep him quite.
Man i wish i could get rid of him i just love shooting wood.
I dont have a spine tester...what are you coming up with on the carbons...how would you rate goldtip, carbon express, easton..etc....
jacobsladder,
I intend to test a bunch of Eastons in the next few days, but from what I've checked so far, the Axis arrows seem consistent. All 6 Carbon Express Heritage shafts I tested were within 1/2# of each other in spine, so I would rate them VERY highly. I also have some Goldtips I'll mess with and get back to you.
Craig
thanks!
have you done any goldtips yet?
My limited experience says carbon express heritage and beman ICS have tighter tolerances than gold tip traditionals.
ive heard of issues with goldtips.... anybody test the gold tips..and how do the blems rate...?
slight variances probably wouldnt show on a fletched arrow with a field point....but could definitely show with a broadhead attached or a bareshaft with a consistant release.
It would be interesting if the arrows could be shot from a bow that was mounted in a stationary device with a mechanical release to see what difference variations in spine make on certain arrows. I have found that changing point weight (which changes effective spine) has little impact on the way my AD arrows fly. Changing point weight has a much greater impact on the way my aluminum and straight walled carbon arrows fly. I'm not sure the variation in spine from one AD shaft to another is significant for arrows made from tapered shafts like that, especially when we are dealing with trad bows. However, I have insufficient empirical data to support such a conclusion. I have no doubt that some arrows are more consistent and that consistency leads to better accuracy, but what I am not convinced of is the extent to which spine variations affect particular designs of arrow shafts.
Allan
When Kevin was making the first Spine-O-Meter, we tested every type of shaft we could get our hands on. Like most have found, some carbons are all over the place. I have a custom one he made me with a few options I wanted. this is by far the best tester I have used. One tester that can do all type of arrow shafting... Alot of time and thought went into it. I'll never get rid of mine, I'll just past it down to my son....
For what it is worth I'll try to relay what I have learned and why I think every archer should have both tools. When carbons first came out I was making custom arrows. i did a lot of buying and trying. I tested as well with the spine tester and scale. Initially carbon arrows were very difficult to get matched. AD's were the worst of the bunch. In addition, every year each mfgr. would come out with a new "model" which meant that the inserts, nocks, etc. would not work from year to year with the same mfgr.
Fortunately things are getting better. What I have concluded is that the old standby, Easton, had the best quality control and as an established company I felt i could depend on them for the same shafts year after year. That has proven to be true. Even though they make changes and improvements they basically have he same shafts and components all fit and work well. i would say that Carbon Express made excellent shafts as well.
I have not been in the arrow making business now for almost ten years but I still find that the Easton/Beman line and CX to be very reliable. Before the advent of the Axis shaft I was ready to shoot just wood or go back to aluminum.
I would say this, however. I do think that the carbon shafts are still in the developing stage. I would encourage every bowhunter out there to shoot their carbon hunting arrows with broadheads before you go off to hunt. Some of the unexplained bad shooting sometimes comes right back to a poor arrow. This is one area where aluminum seems to me to have the upper hand....consistencey. If you cannot be very careful about your shafts and check them with the proper tools stick with the aluminum or make the investment in a spine tester. It may cost a few $$$$ but I, for one, cannot put a price on confidence in my equipment. On the large auction site I got a digital scale for less than $10 and it does a great job and it is small enough I can carry it in my shirt pocket if I needed to.
Surewood Shafts come through again!!! :thumbsup:
This is a very interesting thread, with a great deal of valuable information, regarding arrow spine.
Thanks for the updates and input.... :thumbsup:
Did some testing last night, I ordered some Footed shafts form Great Basin Footed Shafts. In the past when ordering wooden shafts I would have trouble getting the correct spine as ordered. I ordered 3 different spines from GBFS and all were spot on, also a perfect shafts. I also found that Victory carbon shafts to be perfect spine. I find when building any arrows it's real inportent to know the spine. Like others I found that the spine was off on different sides of a carbon shaft. Here is on result from a carbon I tested last night, .400 spine shaft (GT 55/75) cock feather, .410, hen feather .421, hen, .416... I don't know if it makes any real differance but just FYI. This seams to be my findings on alot of carbon shafts. I have found shafts that were marked .500 spine that were in the .440 spine area, I think this would make a differance.
The gold tips that I have tested in the past have been terrible with some plus or minus spines ranging over 10#'s different in the same dozen. It got so bad, I switched to CE's and have been VERY happy. The best spine tolerances I have tested in carbons. To bad too, cause I really liked the looks of the GT trad's. Maybe they have improved the last year or two, but I haven't wanted to take the chance and try them again, even at the great prices for the blems. Maybe someone with a new dozen of the GT trad blems can spine them all and give me some hope!
I just received a new dozen of Big Jim's blems, Vapor Hunter Camo Series 400's which he said are close to identical with GT 55-75. I checked them all on my Ace Spine Master at random, rotating some to check for uniformity on different sides of the shaft. I found them to be quite uniform, showing .33 - .34 deflection consistently (.825 x .400) and also uniform as I rotated the shaft. I also checked some GT55-75 camo shafts I got previously from Big Jim. They seemed to vary a little more (.33-.36), but I have been shooting them out of a couple of different bows and have not really found the arrow flight to be erratic. I have heard that the GT Trads were more inconsistent spine-wise but I have not checked any of them. I have a bunch of 35-55 trads that I can't get to shoot out of anything so maybe I'll check the spine for consistency.
I did the same thing with my Surewoods. They will stack up against any shaft for consistence. Only aluminum is better.
I'd be interested in hearing what you guys are coming up with on the goldtip trads....3555 etc....
Well, I shoot AD Trads, and I am very happy with them. They fly great out of all my bows. Now I prefer the woodgrain ones and to me they are better than the black ones(I have had some of those that did not fly correctly for me)But I do have a couple doz of the black and they fly just fine. I do not check their spine like I did when I shot wood. I shoot from 245 to 400 gr up front and they all fly just great.
AD Trad's have been like that for a lot of years and years. Their design makes them the great flying arrow that they are. I don't have any flight issues with them even with the static spine variation. Like Danny said, they also offer a lot of flexibility in point weight too. dino
I'll give the ADs this, they were straight. I didn't check them for weight variation. Personally, I need my shafts to be matched well. It may just be in my head, but it bothers me ;)
Craig