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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Basinboy on December 13, 2009, 03:56:00 PM

Title: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on December 13, 2009, 03:56:00 PM
Well Gang,
I recently posted my first trad kill. A big doe that I spine shot.
Well, since then I have missed four deer! All under 20 yards! I had a pretty 7pt come in feeding and stop broadside at 13 yards and I slung one right over his back! I took out a field put arrow and shot it at my arrow that missed the deer and nearly hit it. Hmmmm....

Well yesterday I'm on the public land and here comes this doe and yearling. They come in and I wait for a good shot at the doe. Finally she comes in to 18 yards and I stop her with a mouth bleat and draw, anchor, release! Yep, you guessed it, right over her back!
They run only a short distance then settle down and ease back in. The doe steps into the clear and I aimed low thinking they are jumping the string. I hit her but she was wheeling and it hits her forward near the neck. She drops instantly! She stayed down for nearly a minute then kicks forward with her back legs a few times then gets on all fours and stumbles away. I watch her for as far as I can. I figure she won't go far. while waiting a lil spike comes in. We can legally take a buck and doe in the same day so I take a 13 yard shot at him. Right over his back! Dangit man! I get another arrow knocked as he only hopped off a piece and he takes a few steps back and I shoot again about 17 yards and miss again! I'm out of arrows now!
So I get down and trail the doe. Found my arrow with the muzzy phantom broken to pieces. No blood since it was raining and no deer to be found. I went back out this morning and looked some more to no avail.
I can hit my deer target every time in the vitals at home. How come I can't hit a live one?
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Earl Jeff on December 13, 2009, 04:01:00 PM
A sure sign that your not picking a spot and concentrateing on it is shooting over. Pick a spot and concentrate on it till the arrow gone.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Santiam on December 13, 2009, 04:01:00 PM
Pretty simple really..You are picking a spot on your target at home..In the excitement of the hunt you don't...Age old problem that has happened to about everybody at one time or another...
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: HcSmitty on December 13, 2009, 04:10:00 PM
Dont worry man, lol i have the same problem.  Slow it down, u and i both are gettin WAYYY to excited.  Ive even started lettin a few deer walk, just so they are in their n i look at em and get calmed down.  You and i both probally pick a spot n then forget about it as we rush to shoot.  I think we are tryin to hard.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on December 13, 2009, 04:19:00 PM
Yeah, you all are right i'm sure. I kind of feel that is what's happenning but it is hard to do in the heat of the moment! lol I just got through shooting arrows for an hour with a buddy of mine who has never seen a deer in the wild while on stand. Until this morning. I set him up in a funnel and he had two does come in and he got so shook up he missed at 5 yards!
I told him welcome to the club! lol
We should have three deer down in two days. It's a learning experience!
I wanted to give up, but I know the rewards are much greater once it all comes together.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: George D. Stout on December 13, 2009, 04:28:00 PM
You need to spend some time among the deer to get used to their presence.  Then, maybe, you will decide to pick a spot before you shoot 8^). That's the trouble right there.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: peak98 on December 13, 2009, 04:53:00 PM
Try this, draw back and pick a spot but DON'T shoot, let bow down, relax, smile, enjoy, then repeat process and release. I think Mr. George nailed it, you are worrying more about shooting than picking "the" spot. You are putting to much pressure on yourself to shoot, watch them for a couple minutes, the hunt will be more enjoyable and you it will help you calm down. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on December 13, 2009, 05:00:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by peak98:
Try this, draw back and pick a spot but DON'T shoot, let bow down, relax, smile, enjoy, then repeat process and release. I think Mr. George nailed it, you are worrying more about shooting than picking "the" spot. You are putting to much pressure on yourself to shoot, watch them for a couple minutes, the hunt will be more enjoyable and you it will help you calm down. Hope this helps.
i think you nailed it my friend! Drawing focusing on a spot then letting down would be a positive. Now actually being able to do it is another thing lol! Instinct takes over and the arrow takes off lol
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: hill boy on December 13, 2009, 05:32:00 PM
Sounds like you have a lot of deer.That is a big plus.I missed some deer last year.Not picking a spot can become a habit if it's not addressed.Experience is a big help and with lots of deer you will be a pro in no time.Good luck
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: ron w on December 13, 2009, 05:44:00 PM
Your seeing deer...thats good. Next time your out, let one of them come in close, get ready pick a spot on its side in the vitals and then... pass up the shot, thats right let her or him go. Get relaxed to them being around and then next time do the deed!!!
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: wingnut on December 13, 2009, 05:45:00 PM
heck that's nothing, I missed five shots in one day at does a few years ago.  Came home and practiced my butt off all week in the treestand in the front yard.  Pick a spot, draw, drop eyes to bottom of chest, release.  Over and over I shot, connie retrieved arrows for hours.

Finally I had it down.  Off I went and saturday morning I sat and watched does and a nice buck feeding just out of range.  When they moved off, I went to another pasture where I'd seen a huge buck.  I hunkered down in a root wad and rattled.  Here he comes on a string.  Goes behind a big ash tree and I get ready.  He steps out and I go on automatic, Pick a spot, draw, drop eyes to bottom of chest, release.  Shot right under the biggest buck of my life.  LOL

Mike
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: tradtusker on December 13, 2009, 05:57:00 PM
Next time you get a shot Draw down and hold, then let down, don't shoot. Try get used to the deer being within killing range, drawing, picking a spot etc Evaluate what would have happened if you had let the string go? where you on? where you going to drop your arm and peak? Did you pick a spot? etc
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: lpcjon2 on December 13, 2009, 06:06:00 PM
Don't you just love the wisdom.The boys got you fixed up in no time.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: swampdrummer on December 13, 2009, 06:10:00 PM
I'm to new here to be giving much advice but what these guys are suggesting sure helped me a bunch.
About 3 weeks ago I had a doe come in and spend over an hour under and around my stand. Since its bucks only right now. I spent that hour drawing on this doe, picking a spot and letting down. Everytime she would look away or step behind a tree or bush I'd draw, pick that spot, and let down.Must have drawn on her 30 times in that hour.
The next weekend in the same stand I had a little 6 point come in. Very little buck fever. All I remember seeing was his front right elbow. I picked it, and hit it.
keep at it, You'll get it.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Brian Krebs on December 13, 2009, 06:23:00 PM
When we say spot  -  we mean a little tiny spot- if you can see a hair missing shoot for that- the smaller the spot; the better.

Nutter thing - are you shooting from the ground when you practice; and from a treestand when you hunt ? You might want to take a couple practice arrows with you to where you hunt; and shoot them from you are getting shots at the deer.

When you lean over; and don't bend at the waist; to shoot from a stand; it can totally throw off your shot.

I would take a paper plate; put it above the ground right where you are expecting a shot; and get hunkered in and shoot at the paper plate.
You might be surprised at what happens.

Nutter thing; is that with all those shots and deer- your getting some adrenaline going; so you will really have to concentrate on your form; your anchor points and such.

When ever you hit a deer in the spine; follow up with an immediate shot to its vitals; like as soon as you can put an arrow on the string.

You are practicing with the same arrows as you are hunting with? Broadheads fly different than field points.....

Keep your broadheads really sharp- and get totally serious when you get a shot. Concentrate....

Good luck - we all miss or suffer from 'convenient Alzheimer's  '   :)
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on December 13, 2009, 08:40:00 PM
I haven't been shooting out the treestand like I should. I have shot some out the tree but most of my practice has been on the ground and using my fieldpoints. I hunt from a treestand.
I did shoot my broadheads before hunting and they were hitting on target.
My hunting broadheads are new and very sharp Bought 4 packs before the season. All of them haven't hit the dirt yet lol

Today I shot from the ground and as usual I'm shooting well.
I hung a stand in the back yard and didn't shoot to well. I was hitting low out the tree. Just below the deer target, right behind the front leg.
I worked on it until I was hitting in the vitals.
Shot for two hours with an hour break between.
Will practice more tomorrow.
You guys are great! Thanks for all the advice and support!

Corey
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: bartcanoe on December 13, 2009, 08:47:00 PM
I'm frustrated too, but I have another reason.  I've been out five times this season, but I haven't had a shot.  I've seen a dozen deer, but they always seem to be just out of range or smart enough to keep some limbs in the way.

Oh well, I soothe my frustration by taking it out on stumps when I come out of the woods.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Spectre on December 13, 2009, 08:57:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by lpcjon2:
Don't you just love the wisdom.The boys got you mixed up in no time.
There, fixed it fer ya.....


*ducking for cover*
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: LongStick64 on December 13, 2009, 09:20:00 PM
Dumb question but do you practice shooting at home with your hunting clothes on. You could be getting clearance issues. Only way to know is by real practice.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: varmint101 on December 13, 2009, 09:35:00 PM
My guess is you're pulling your concentration off right before you release.  You almost hit your arrow stuck in the ground because you kept concentration because no pressure and a tiny spot(nock).

Don't forget to bend at the waist on the tree stand shots.  Sometimes just a little sometimes a lot.  You will shoot high then a lot times.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: fnshtr on December 13, 2009, 09:43:00 PM
Most people shoot HIGH from an elevated position. Make sure you bend at the waist and keep good form... do not just lower your bow arm. The upper body must stay in the "T" form throughout the shot.

I think George and others said it best... PICK A SPOT! It is easy to get distracted in the "heat of the moment".

Good luck, keep the "faith", and you'll be fine.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Fletcher on December 13, 2009, 09:47:00 PM
Brian mentioned something that I wanted to second.  Whenever you spine hit a critter, get another arrow in the goods ASAP!  I learned it the hard way, too.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Robert Honaker on December 14, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
Don't forget, Your arrow will naturally hit high shooting from a stand also.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Pinecone on December 14, 2009, 07:30:00 AM
All of the suggestions mentioned have been excellent.  I would add that it helps to take the pressure off of yourself and to remind yourself that if you can hit a spot in practice, you can hit a spot in the field.  If you can get your brain to focus on the point of aim (you are trying to hit a dot, not a deer), it can help to calm your nerves as you shoot.  
That said...sometimes we just plain miss!  So, it's back to the practice butt to shoot, shoot, shoot!

Claudia
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Plumber on December 14, 2009, 07:58:00 AM
I can say over the years the last 5 I have gotten better.however I shot over the back of the biggest deer I have ever seen I shook for 5 min.uncontrolably.I dont normally get that way.It is because I dont see deer that big.I freaked out an didnot pick a spot.There has been alot of learning going on this year for me.Every time I miss I useally know why in about 3-5 sec. after the deer bolts.This form of hunting takes alot focus an control.when my bow is tuned an I know I have good form then the rest is something I did not realize I was soooo weak at. focus an mental control.When I used a compound it was faith because I was relaying on all my gagets an when you do this you have very little control.so as a new trad hunter I had to learn stuff I was not use too. An frankly never gave it a thought at the time.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: wtpops on December 14, 2009, 08:32:00 AM
Spot, a small spot, a tiny spot. the center of and asperin is the same size as the center of a water mellon.

Dont worry sounds like your in the deer, in will happen.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: frassettor on December 14, 2009, 08:44:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by HcSmitty:
Dont worry man, lol i have the same problem.  Slow it down, u and i both are gettin WAYYY to excited.  Ive even started lettin a few deer walk, just so they are in their n i look at em and get calmed down.  You and i both probally pick a spot n then forget about it as we rush to shoot.  I think we are tryin to hard.
Bingo!! I got all excited as well, and missed 6 TIMES  :mad:  Until.....I relaxed, and took things in stride. Then it started coming more easily.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: rickshot on December 14, 2009, 10:12:00 AM
Firstly, congrats on your first trad deer. You now know that it is doable with the equipment you carry...that's a plus.

I am very much in the camp that encourages drawing and not taking the shot. When I watch a gun hunting video and the hunter is young or inexperienced I often think how much easier it would be for them to steady the crosshairs, first, on something they do not intend (but still legal, of course) to shoot. And the point being that level of anticipation changes if one realizes the option not to shoot is available and is sometimes the better choice, at a particular moment.

Personally, I think "picking a spot" is a good recommendation, but I look at animals a bit differently than any other target. Whether the game is small or large my focus extends beyond the point of contact, to the arrow's path internally and then the off-side. With small game I might be fixed on something the size of a walnut inside the critter and on large game maybe a softball, but it's always suspended in the middle of the boiler room and my eyes stay riveted on only that target and the path to it, from every angle.

Lately, I've been examining how I look at things differently when I'm hunting. Most of the time my eyes are picking the woods apart, over and under everything in all directions and for as far as I can see. At other times I will look at something to shoot at and my mind plays through the shot experience...so it's kinda like I am shooting half the time, even when I'm not.

And one more thing, that might tie some of this together. Probably the most common thing that happens to me every year is that I get my first shot of the season at a squirrel...and most of the time it's a miss. From that point on, the next squirrel I run into is in some serious trouble...I will make up for the miss.

You are very fortunate to have had the opportunities you've had. Sounds like a bit more practice with your downhill shots and you're going to have a lot of dragging to do. Good Luck. Rick.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: joevan125 on December 14, 2009, 10:18:00 AM
Im new to trad also and i missed the first 3 deer i shot at, all were to high. Then one afternoon i had 2 8 pointers and 3 does come in and i kept telling myself, pick a spot, pick a spot. I made a 25 yd shot on the biggest of the 2 bucks.

I think those first 3 misses i was putting to much pressure on myself and for sure was shooting at the whole deer. Pick a spot, pick a spot.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: maineac on December 14, 2009, 05:32:00 PM
A lot of great suggestions, and I am no expert, but you said your broadheads were on target, but have you shot a group of arrows with mixed BH's and field points from your stand?  Maybe they are actually shooting high.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on December 14, 2009, 06:08:00 PM
I shot both broadheads and field points today. My broadheads were actually shooting lower than my field points.Shot pretty good out the treestand yesterday. today wasn't so good. All over the place. But my muscles were sore from shooting so much yesterday.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: peak98 on December 21, 2009, 10:16:00 AM
Any updates on your progress ?
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: FerretWYO on December 21, 2009, 10:18:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Earl Jeff:
A sure sign that your not picking a spot and concentrateing on it is shooting over. Pick a spot and concentrate on it till the arrow gone.
Rather till the arrow hits for me. I have this same problem. You are not alone. I have to tell myself everytime to pick a spot and follow through to the very end.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Guss on December 21, 2009, 10:34:00 AM
I don't like stopping a deer with a grunt or any other noise,  I would rather take the shot at a slow walking, or feeding animal than alerting them with a noise, as long as the range is short. I think this contributes to some of the high shots. The deer in my area are wired pretty tight, I guess it would depend on the hunting pressure in your area. Picking a spot is tough on a live animal, but that's the key!
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: tawmio on December 21, 2009, 11:20:00 AM
It'll come don't worry, been there done that....
I had an arrow setup i thought was good -i shot a two blade magnus i thought they came out nice but they dropped like a rock between 18-20 yards...and i happend to find out hunting. now i spend a lot of time practicing with my broad heads.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: ronnyg on December 21, 2009, 12:49:00 PM
It sounds like you had an exciting day in the woods!  IMO after the first few days of bow season, the deer become much more aware of "predetors" in the trees.  If you don't shoot low, then you are going to shoot high.  It took me many years to covince myself of that.  At this point in the season ALL the deer are on full alert.  If they have picked you out and you shoot, chances are, they aren't going to be there when the arrow arrives!!
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: thunder1 on December 22, 2009, 11:27:00 PM
A friend of mine (really) went through 2 years of non lethal hits on deer. I joked that the deer in our area have a beautiful plume of turkey feathers. He just did get his first trad his year. A nice six. He wasn't picking a spot those first two years.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Hooked on December 23, 2009, 12:04:00 AM
Great advice above, but I have another thought...

Are you shooting off the ground at home and then from a stand when hunting?  You might be dropping your arm to shoot downward instead of bending at the waist.  If you already know this it could be a combo of not picking a spot and not bending at the waist in the heat of the moment.

I am guilty of both!
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: hunterace on December 23, 2009, 12:22:00 AM
missing is part of hunting, everyone does it, and i mean everyone. i look at it after having some misses of my own that if God had wanted me to have that deer it'd be dead. i missed a small 4 or 6 pointer earlier this season, but it was a clean miss so i wasn't too disappointed. then later in the season i got the biggest buck i've ever shot. now it was with a compound( please don't kick me off this site) but misses happen, and it's for a reason, whether we like it or not. good luck it'll happen
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on February 01, 2010, 08:30:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by peak98:
Any updates on your progress ?
Well, I have taken three hogs. Two one evening and one the next morning but they were close shots. I still haven't had the chance at another deer so we will see when the moment arrives if I can focus on the spot. Only a week and a half left in the bow season here to get it done.
Then I will wreck havoc on the hog population!
I got some good ones coming in!
Looks like I need to be on stand before 7am!
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/Basinboy39/hogspot010.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/Basinboy39/hogspot039.jpg)
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg16/Basinboy39/hogspot206.jpg)
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: ottertails on February 01, 2010, 09:08:00 PM
Do yourself a favor, stop watching the Outhouse channel or whatever cable c@#p is out there. Do not try to stop a deer (grunting,bleating,whistleing etc.), when you do, all you're doing is putting that deer on alert! Ready to dodge your arrow. You say you're new to trad/bow, are you a compound convert, if so, you no longer have to get the deer....or any game animal to stop so you can line up all those ridiculous gadgets.

You may have to work on other things, you will find your way.
Good luck and welcome to shooting Real bows.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: NorthernCaliforniaHunter on February 01, 2010, 09:25:00 PM
Fantastic wisdom on Tradgang. Never ceases to amaze me.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: bowmaster12 on February 01, 2010, 09:39:00 PM
not sure if this is a problem with trad gear or not as i am fairly new to the sport but i know with the wheels if you dont bend at the waist when shooting from a tree stand ll shoot high its a big problem people just lower thier bow ar instead fo bending at the waist on the close shots had to help a buddy with this problem this season after he missed three at close range took him shooting explained the problem and how to fix it 8 pointer down problem solved
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Don Stokes on February 01, 2010, 09:46:00 PM
FerretWYO mentioned something very important: Follow through! If you raise your head to see where the arrow is going at the release, it will mess you up every time. Keep your bow up and your form fixed until the arrow hits home. And like ottertails said, forget stopping the deer with a noise. The worst thing you can do is get the deer alerted before you shoot. A slow-walking, calm deer is much less likely to jump the string before the arrow gets there- they can do it so fast that you think you shot high when you didn't. They will drop at the shot, and it can happen so fast it takes a slow motion camera to see it. I've seen video of a buck actually putting a "U" bend in his spine to let the arrow go by.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Sam McMichael on February 01, 2010, 10:40:00 PM
I have found that I often look up to see my beautiful shot hit exactly where I aimed it. The problem is that some of the time I look up an instant before I release, so even if the perfect spot has been selected, that brief break in concentration ruins the shot. When you pick your spot, is your focus still on that exact same spot when your arrow passes over the animal, or have you begun to view the entire deer?
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on February 02, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
Sam, I'm sure thats my problem. Not focusing on a spot in my excitement of getting an oportunity at a deer! Probably peeking as well.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 02, 2010, 03:17:00 PM
Basinboy, I would kill to have that many opportunities in a day!  My best freind hunted HARD all season without getting a single opportunity.  I say hard, but he hunted HARD when he could, which wasnt often.  Anyway, it happeneds to the best of us.  I have a question for you!  DO you have something valuable that can break easy?
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on February 03, 2010, 01:23:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Shelton:
  DO you have something valuable that can break easy?
Ummm, I'm not sure if I follow where this is going? lol
Talk to me!
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 03, 2010, 01:27:00 PM
Alright, well it will make sense in a second.  What you do is put that valuable think right next to the target and shoot at the target.  TO me that simulates somthing similar to buck fever.  In my case I wanted that awesome camera angle. SO I set the camera, right above the vitals on my deer, using a tripod!  boy did that get the nerves a flowin.  I would seriously be careful if you try this, but that is what works for me.  That and my buck fever was pretty bad in the beginning, so I would even get nervous when shooting at anything.  Alot of small game hunting will also help ease the nerves, gets you used to shooting at a living creature!
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: bornagainbowhunter on February 03, 2010, 01:34:00 PM
I tought a guy to shoot a few years ago.  He always looked up to see where he was going ot hit.  He missed alot.  I finally told him that if he kept looking up all he would see is an arrow bouncing off the trees and not going into a deer.  He laughed at me, but it is the truth.  Don't change anything about your form until the arrow hits your mark.  You will be amazed with the difference.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Sean B on February 03, 2010, 02:56:00 PM
I haven't read all of the replies, so I don't know if this was mentioned or not, but I've found out a while ago, that you really have to aim low when hunting out of a tree stand. Esp if your shot is under 15 yards.  I was shooting over close deer like crazy from a tree.  So now I practice from an elevated position. I pick a spot on the lower 3rd of the deer.
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: Basinboy on February 03, 2010, 10:05:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by bornagainbowhunter:
I tought a guy to shoot a few years ago.  He always looked up to see where he was going ot hit.  He missed alot.  I finally told him that if he kept looking up all he would see is an arrow bouncing off the trees and not going into a deer.  He laughed at me, but it is the truth.  Don't change anything about your form until the arrow hits your mark.  You will be amazed with the difference.
When I practice I do really well holding my form till the arrow hits the target. I have my friend Leo L. watch me to make sure I'm folowing through. Now what happens in the heat of the moment when shooting at a deer, I can't tell you lol
Title: Re: Very Frustrated!
Post by: LA Trapper on February 03, 2010, 10:31:00 PM
Hang in there Corey.

Billy