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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Chris O on December 13, 2009, 01:30:00 PM

Title: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Chris O on December 13, 2009, 01:30:00 PM: I saw a thread about how long to hang a deer before you butcher it the other day. I didn't realize you were supposed to let em hang a few days but it got me wondering if you should leave the hide on or off or maybe it doesn't matter?
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Chris O on December 13, 2009, 01:31:00 PM: This is my first poll so I hope it works! Thanks in advance for replies!
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: oldskool on December 13, 2009, 01:40:00 PM: I don't buy into all the stuff about hanging for three days or what ever. All my deer get butchered the day I kill it.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: xtrema312 on December 13, 2009, 02:42:00 PM: Hide on to keep the meat from drying too much and keep the bacteria out and flies off, but most times I skin, quarter and put it in the fridge the same day. If it is real hot and I don't have a fridge then I do the same, bag the quarters and trim then on ice. I never skin and leave exposed to the air. It probably cools way faster, but if cooling is an issue a fridge or ice is best. I hunt farm land deer, do a good job of field dressing, and cut out all bone, fat, and white skin. My venison always tastes great with no hang time. I guess if I shot some big old deer I would maybe be more concerned with hang time, but the 4 year old I shot this year is just fine eating so far.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: maineac on December 13, 2009, 02:44:00 PM: Depends on the temp. I have butchered same or next day and let hang for over a week. I leave the hide on to help keep in moisture.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Buckeye Trad Hunter on December 13, 2009, 04:50:00 PM: It's really not necessary to let them hang for a few days but it does help the meat. In reality most of us don't have meat lockers so we let them hang for as long as the weather permits. If it's warm we skin and quarter right away, if it's sub 40 you can let them hang pretty much as long as you want within reason.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: LKH on December 13, 2009, 05:02:00 PM: I often leave the hide on. Keeps them from freezing.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: customcrester on December 13, 2009, 07:01:00 PM: I butcher my deer the same day or the next if the weather is cold.I leave the hide on until i butcher.The sooner it's in the freezer the sooner you can enjoy the venison. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: lpcjon2 on December 13, 2009, 07:07:00 PM: I keep the hide on.and hang it for 5-10 days if temps permit.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Killdeer on December 13, 2009, 07:07:00 PM: It all depends on the weather.
Deer hide and hair is chock full of bacteria and stuff.
I leave it hang with the hide on if it is going to stay cool and dry.

I take the hide off if it will be warm, or rainy. When the hide comes off, I butcher the deer.

The hide is much easier to remove while the deer is still warm. I would not let the deer hang hideless because the meat will dry out.

Aging the meat is a whole other matter, and can be done in the cooler or refrigerator, before or after freezing the meat. So, I can kill a deer some days before going home, and age it on the rack or in the cooler. Then freeze.

Or, I could kill a deer on the last day, butcher it, freeze it at home, and age it when I pull it out of the freezer and place it in the fridge. On the whole, conditions are most controlled when I age the meat in my fridge.

That is, if I don't miss.
Killdeer
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Killdeer on December 13, 2009, 07:09:00 PM: BTW, I did not vote in the poll because there was no way to allow for these variables.

Killdeer :coffee:
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Don Stokes on December 13, 2009, 10:19:00 PM: I hung one in January for 17 days one time, hide on. Some of the best venison I've had. It was unusually cool for MS. I've never had conditions that good before or since down here.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: 30coupe on December 14, 2009, 12:09:00 AM: Let me ask you this: if you had a beef butchered and the locker left it hanging for a few days with the hide on, would you eat it? How about if they let it hang outside with the hide on for a day or two?

The longer meat stays warm, the more bacteria can take over. What is the hide designed to do? Keep the critter warm, right?

I want that hide off as soon as possible. As far as the meat drying out with the hide off...so what. Do you think that doesn't happen if they hang in a locker?

The sooner you take care of the meat, the better it will taste and the lower your chance of food poisoning. I cut mine up as soon as the rigor is out.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Killdeer on December 14, 2009, 05:55:00 AM: Actually, once the animal stops producing heat, the hair on the hide serves to stabilize the temperature of the meat. So you cool it down as quickly as you can, and the hair slows its reheating, as well as retarding any freezing overnight. I am not saying that the meat can not get too warm, or freeze, I am just saying that it is slower to attain unfavorable temperatures than hideless meat.

As long as the meat is staying cool, I don't care where it is. Bacterial action is necessary to tenderize the meat. Too much action and the meat goes bad. Beef does not dry out in commercial lockers because of carefully controlled humidity levels.

http://www.ehow.com/about_5085414_tenderizing-meat.html

Whatever way you control that, it's all good.
And yes, I would eat the beef hung with the hide on.
Killdeer
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: frassettor on December 14, 2009, 10:24:00 AM: Quote
Originally posted by oldskool:
I don't buy into all the stuff about hanging for three days or what ever. All my deer get butchered the day I kill it.
same here!
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: joevan125 on December 14, 2009, 10:44:00 AM: Im lucky that i hunt a few miles from the deer butcher and he always lets the deer hang in the cooler for at least 5 days with the hide on.

For those of you that dont believe this makes the meat more tender i have to disagree. I have done it every way that it can be done and letting the meat age for a few days makes the meat a lot more tender.

I use to hunt with a college buddy of mine who had a 6,000 acr farm and we had 100 doe tags. I use to let some of those deer hang in there walk in cooler for over a week and man it was some of the best deer meat i have ever ate.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Don Stokes on December 14, 2009, 12:13:00 PM: It goes without saying (or should) that if you plan to leave the hide on, you should cool the carcass as quickly as possible. I do it with cold water from my hose, or by dunking the field-dressed carcass in the nearest creek. Some say you shouldn't wash out the carcass, but the thought of that grosses me out. I don't want coagulated blood or worse in contact with the meat that I want to eat! Paraphrasing what Killdeer said, having the hide on protects the meat from drying and temperature fluctuations. Deer hair is an excellent insulator! That's how they can sleep in the snow without melting it.

Beef is not the same- the carcass is much larger, and consequently harder to get cooled down. If it could be done, I'd prefer to age it in the hide, too, after having the experience of turning a couple of old, stinky, rutting bucks into much better venison by aging them for a week in a cooler with the hide on. It makes a big difference in the flavor to me.

I wouldn't shoot a bit old stinky rutting buck if I couldn't age it properly in the hide. And if you believe that, I have this piece of prime real estate in the Florida Everglades...
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: inn8hunter on December 14, 2009, 12:56:00 PM: Ever since I started skinning them as soon as possible and only letting them hang one day at the most, the meat has been so much better tasting.

I believe it comes down to cooling a deer asap by getting the hide off. Hanging after that may help, but I think you lose meat due to drying if you hang too long.

Tim
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: bawana bowman on December 14, 2009, 01:42:00 PM: I voted to leave the hide on, only because I believe it will help to protect the meat. But...

Have never let a deer hang, have seen people do it up north, why I don't know.... don't agree with the aging of the meat theory. Never seen a cow carcass hanging to age the meat. (At least not outside with the hide still on) Meat can be aged very efficiently butchered and left in a dry cooler. I know many butchers which do it this way, and their product is excellent.

Also where I live, and most areas that I hunt, if you were to leave a deer hang for a day you best be digging a large whole cause that suckers gonna be real ripe when you get back to it.
We generally will have any deer we kill hung, skinned, back straps and tenderloins removed and quartered, within an hour and a half of killing. Then refrigerate over night and process in to steaks, roasts, or ground meat next day. Very efficient, and meat always tastes great!

:archer:
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: jindydiver on December 14, 2009, 03:19:00 PM: I voted it doesn't matter. You are only talking a couple of days and then you are going to butcher it, the meat wont dry significantly in that time unless it is particularly warm or dry where you are.
If the drying worries you (and it worries me) then get your deer broken down and into a fridge as soon as it has cooled. I put the muscles onto a teatowel in the bottom of a tray and then stick them in the fridge for a day or two till I can get to it and sort it for freezing. I stick the whole butt end in if it will fit too
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/jindydiver/yearlingbutt.jpg)
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: sweeney3 on December 14, 2009, 03:27:00 PM: It's very temperature dependent and there will be varying preferances, as usual. Try it several ways and see what you like best. I like to hang them a couple of days if it's neither hot nor freezing, but that's rare. Really, venison is tasty enough as it is that there's nothing wrong with working them up as soon as the heat is out.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: talkingcabbage on December 14, 2009, 04:18:00 PM: "Have never let a deer hang, have seen people do it up north, why I don't know.... don't agree with the aging of the meat theory. Never seen a cow carcass hanging to age the meat."

I'm with you. I've talked to guys that work in meat producers, and they only let the bodies hang for 24 hours at the most, and that's only to bring the temp down to 40 degrees. Then they butcher right away. That stuff about the meat getting more tender after it hangs for days is a bunch of bull. You're just letting the meat rot, imo. That's why everyone thinks deer tastes gamey. The quicker you get it cut up and cooled, the better it is. If a packing house doesn't let meat hang for days or weeks at a time, why should we?
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: joevan125 on December 14, 2009, 05:21:00 PM: If i can i leave the hide on and let the deer age for at least 3-5 days in a cold storage and the meat comes out more tender than any other way than i have tried. Living down here in Alabama i have tried them all and this work better than anything.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: joevan125 on December 14, 2009, 05:23:00 PM
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: hunt it on December 14, 2009, 05:41:00 PM: It's not rocket science. Fact is if you take the hide off asap the meat will cool faster. The faster meat cools the better it will taste period. This is the same if it is plus 40 or minus 40 that hide is insulation. Any butcher worth a dang would not allow deer with hides on them in his cooler. The bacteria,insects,dirt etc in the hide would contaminate good meat. The exception being a butcher that has a seperate cooler just to keep deer in until he gets hide off. Meat will taste better if hung with hide off for 3 to 5 days in a controlled cooler. One has to weigh all the variables first and decide which is best. If at hunt camp and it's snowing and all you have is a pole and no cover then I'd leave hide on vs get meat all wet.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Longbow Jake on December 14, 2009, 05:52:00 PM: Same as oldskool.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Don Stokes on December 14, 2009, 05:54:00 PM: With all due respect, some of you guys need to research the aging of beef. The best beef is hung until it grows mold inside the body cavity that has to be scraped off. I HAVE hung deer for a week or more, and it does make a difference. The processors that don't age their beef are just taking the easier and cheaper way out.

Certainly deer is good if you don't age it, but that doesn't mean it can't be better, under the right conditions!

Here's the first reference on aging beef I found on the search engine:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/nutrition/DJ5968.html

I think they probably know what they're talking about.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: kevgsp on December 14, 2009, 06:34:00 PM: Hide off asap.

I would not be dunking my field dressed deer in any creek
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: frank bullitt on December 14, 2009, 07:03:00 PM: Yes, I leave the hide on, and then I take the hide off! :)

Jindydiver, is that a gas can next to that hind quarter?
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: ArrowAtomik on December 14, 2009, 09:52:00 PM: Same with the best ham. It is aged until there is a full layer of mold on the outside. I've hung deer for 15 days with outstanding results. I've also butchered immediately and everything in between. All was good, but the aged loins off the grill... by far the best yet. I've heard of hanging pheasants by the neck, and when the body separates from the head... it is ready! Most all meat can benefit from proper aging.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: jindydiver on December 15, 2009, 03:52:00 AM: Quote
Originally posted by frank bullitt:

Jindydiver, is that a gas can next to that hind quarter?
That is just a huge bottle of tomato sauce :)
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: frank bullitt on December 15, 2009, 12:08:00 PM: Jindy, I was hoping you would answer....HOT SAUCE! :bigsmyl:

Good shootin, Steve
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: FerretWYO on December 15, 2009, 12:20:00 PM: If it is cold then I like to leave the hide on that will keep them insulated during the day.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: swampbuck on December 15, 2009, 12:31:00 PM: Genrally I cut them up where they lay and don't even gut them but...

The one I took this yr was a week ago Sat and the temps have been cold all week.I skun the half frozen deer and started cutting this past Sat after a wk I think it'll be fine either way
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: Chris O on December 15, 2009, 05:54:00 PM: I really appreciate everyone's input! Thanks so much.

Of the two deer I got this year, one I let hang for 3 days and the other I butchered that night. The one that hung tastes much better but I attributed that to it being the younger of the deer.

Thanks again for all the great info and experience. Hopefully I keep up the success so I can try some more ways of aging/not aging to compare.
Title: Re: Hide on hide off?
Post by: BTH on December 15, 2009, 08:24:00 PM: Hide comes off ASAP. Out here in my deer season we have high heat. I skin the deer asap and hang it in the skinning shed until I go home on Sunday night. Sunday night the butcher is open at 6pm to 7pm to take in deer. He hangs them for about a week in the cooler.