Trad Gang

Gentlemen!  I have a very hard time seeing blood  being red/green deficient for color blindness.  Therefor the more blood on the ground the better for me.  Have always used 3 blade broadheads but I'm real interested in going to a 2 blade single bevel for penetration. Id have to believe that the 3 blade (woodsman elite) would allow more blood to escape the body all else being equal... So give me your opinions please... Would the woodsman elite outperform an abowyer single bevel or the other way around (penetration, blood trail)?

Looking at around a 200 grain head and a 100 grain insert leading an AD trad lite arrow for alittle over 600 grains total out of my RER 49# @ 26 inches.

(wouldn't mind shooting the abowyer brown bear head on a 75 be adapter but that would bring my head weight up to almost 300 grains and my finished arrow to almost 700 be which I really don't wanna go that heavy, and I don't want to go to any aluminum adapted or insert... Any input here is appreciated too!)

Thanks in advance.

My 2 cents would be to shoot what you feel most confident with... both are excellent broadheads that will kill quickly with proper shot placement. The larger hole of the woodsman would most likely allow for more blood , but the 2 blade may penetrate better....a pass thru would most likely provide more blood on the ground ..especially hunting from a tree stand with the exit hole low........i shot a buck off the ground this year with a 2 blade with a pass thru and had squat for blood....

Note the "be" in that last paragraph should be "gr" for grains.  iPod doesn't like my fingers for some reason!

Here's the question: are you having penetration problems with your three-blade heads? If not, there's no need to fix what isn't broken. If so, and you want a little better penetration and are concerned about getting every drop of blood possible on the ground, I'd suggest a four-blade head like a Zwickey Eskimo or Delta.

Something I'd highly suggest since you're red/green color blind is to carry a spray bottle of peroxide when you blood trail. When in doubt, must the area in question. If it foams, it's blood.

My best hunting buddy is red/green colorblind and we've tracked lots of game together.  My advice would be the 3 blade but I'm relatively new to trad heads.  

More important I would say is getting down the system of info processing that happens right after the shot. Listen hard after the shot for direction, crashing, etc.   DO take the time to shoot that field tip to mark the area where the wounded deer entered the brush again so you dont have to rely on your memory. Do carry binos.  On more than one occasion I've hit deer to have em run 100-200 yards and stop/stand/bed. Wish I WOULD have had binos then! I do carry em now. The more info you can gather right after the shot the better. This year a buddy told me he was watching @ 100 yards his arrowed buck bleeding from mouth with blood running down leg ..yep he was wearing binos w/o em he would not have been able to see that detail.

I also put a lot of importance on finding the arrow and that can be hard sometimes, thats why I always use relfective wrap on the nock end, hit it with a  flashlight and it lites up like a diamond.  Other ideas:  bring a kid they have great eyes.  Bring a woman, they do too!  
Having 2-3 partners helps so much in the blood trailing game so long as they know what they are doing.  I always carry food and water so if someone tries to 'back out' of a tracking exercise 1/2 way thru b/c they are hungry/thristy....they have no excuse.

Another idea....get good at tracking footprints. Thats what I wanna do next.

I've gotten better blood trails with three blade (Snuffers and Woodsmen) broadheads than with two blade (Grizzly and Zwickey Delta). The Zwickeys zip right through whitetails though. Your deer won't be far away with a double lung shot with either one. Unless you stick the shoulder blade, penetration isn't much of an issue with whitetails no matter what broadhead you use.

How has penetration been so far?

My current setup is 40# @ 28, 590 grain arrow from 125 grain WW + 75 grain adapter + 100 grain brass.  

I have only shot 1 deer w/ this new setup and it was sligthly quartering towards, blew in and out at 17.5 yards. Single lung shot and no hard bone was encountered. Wont be taking that shot again. There was a blood trail but it was not needed as I saw the deer go down in sight 179 yards later (previously thought it was only 100 yards...they can cover alot of ground quickly). In my opinion the more blades the more blood so long as you get passthru.  I'm gonna try the unvented woodsman as soon as I move up in bow weigth to 45#. The unvented woodsman looks stronger to me.  But its a toss up, every once in awhile I will start thiking 'what ifs' when it comes to single bevels.

It's about getting an exit hole.  Shoot the head that will provide an exit hole all the time you will have more blood on the ground.

I've had real good luck wth the woodsman on deer and elk.  Switching to BrownBears for hogs and our moose hunt.

Mike

I know that this is not one of your broadhead choices that you mentioned, but here it is anyway.  Zwickey Delta 4 blades.  I am also color blind, badly.  There are several different levels and types.  I am red green deficient.  That means on those charts they show you, I see nothing.  The delta 4 blade, as earlier stated, zips through deer.  That leaves a great blood trail for my 5 year old boy to track.  :goldtooth:    He has been tracking my deer for 2 years now.  I shot one in early november 2 years ago, seen it fall, and he wanted to go with me to find my arrow.  He immediatly spotted the blood trail and walked right to the arrow.  I knew he just got himself a new job.  Anyways the delta 4 blade has always done me right, I would reccomend it to everyone.

Try the Simmons Treeshark or the Centaur Battleax 2 blade, havent shot anything w/the Centaur yet but shot a huge doe with the Treeshark and anyone could of followed the blood trail, at the hit blood sprayed 3 ft. out both sides and looked like someone followed her for 60 yds. spraying a hose out both sides... plus entrance hole you could stick 3 fingers in and exit you could put your fist in, brought a ball of fat out of it with broadhead as big as a softball.

Just shoot the biggest broadhead you can get a complete passthrough with.

I shoot close to your setup and have no trouble with pass throughs on deer.I`ve shot about every broadhead there is and I`m convinced most all of them work if sharp and PUT IN THE RIGHT PLACE.
 If I was worried about 2 blade bloodtrails I would`nt shoot them. The woodsman is a fine broadhead and I can`t see you going wrong. My choice in a two blade is the Magnus I. I`ve used the centuar,all kinds of Simmons and the zwickey delta. They all work good but the Magnus is easiest for me to sharpen.I believe a good head to try would be the Zwickey no mercy in 4 blade . Right now I hope to kill my next deer or pig with a ss phantom 4 blade. I`ll let you know how it works out but I am conifident and thats what matters most.RC

In my opinon, there are too many varibles to be able to say one broadhead will leave a better blood trail than another. Whatever broadhead you choose make sure YOU can shoot it well and that it is very sharp. For me, I have been using 190 grain El Grande grizzly with great results.

Gilbert

Its amazing how opinions change over the years. Back in the early days of modern deer hunting everyone thought it was better for the broadhead to stay in the body cavity "to do more damage while the deer was running off". A hunting buddy quit hunting with me in 1969 because I bought a 57 pound bow. He said I was going to shoot through everything and not recover my animals. He was a very ethical hunter and honestly thought I was being unethical for getting "such a heavy bow". Most everyone shot 40 to 45 pound bows in those days.

Bill, I have heard that as well and it probably does more damage rattling around in the body cavity but back to the question...will there be more or less blood on the ground? In my experience and I have no scientific reaserch or journals I`ve kept to prove it but I believe a deer with the arrow still in it seams more panicked and will run farther and hard whereas a quick clean pass through the deer will sometimes even bound a few jumps and fall over.But, they all tend to react different and I would much prefer a hole coming out the other side. Good comments guys...this stuff is cool.RC

I shot a buck this fall with a 4 blade Magnus Buzzcut broadhead and it was the best blood trail I have experienced.  I have no experience with 3 blade broadheads but have shot multiple deer with 2 blade heads.  I will be using the 4 blade buzzcut again.

Greg

I got my first trad deer Friday here in CA, shot her @ 30yds with a VPA Terminator 200gr (AKA the non-vented WW Elite @ 3Rivers).

  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=081428


She was about 10ft above me vertically, spot and stalk, and my arrow entered a tad too tight, shattering the bones in the lower leg just below the elbow, going through the heart and lungs and stopping in the offside shoulder before being broken as she ran off.  

I have no doubt that even though I hit bone going in, the only reason it didn't pass through the opposite shoulder was that she jumped and broke the arrow as it hit her, but that is my opinion.

She only made it 20yds, but every 3 feet was a huge spray that I could see easily from a distance under the canopy of trees.

I was very impatient and got to the spot of the shot to mark where she went into the thick brush, only to find her stone dead 20yds away.

Maybe a 2 blade would have cut through faster and passed through, but that blood trail was as good as I have seen with a pass-through and a 4 blade head.

That broadhead is still good-to-go, and is in my #1 spot in my quiver.  I will hopefully give it a shot at a bear in the next week.

Good luck.

Also, upon inspection the broken section and the broadhead had worked to the top of the lungs in teh top of the chest cavity in that short 20yd dash she made before dying.  

FYI BW PSAII #55 @27", 27" draw.  200gr VPA Terminator with CE Heritage 250's.

An arrow placed well with 2, 3, 4 or 10 blades results in plenty of blood and dead animals. I am using 2 blade Eclipse this year with great results. What the broadhead passes through, and shot angle determines how much blood you will get. Stevie Wonder could have followed the blood trails from the Eclipse this year. Last year I shot one with a Woodsman that left very little blood. That deer was dead in 100  yards, but the arrow hit back and excited forward leaving little blood. So, in conclusion its not the broadhead its the hit.

Shoot the head you have the most confidence in. Just make sure its very sharp and your shot is as good as you can make. Experience will refine your setup.

I agree with Jashu.

Location, location, location.

I find it MUCH easier to get a two blade head hunting (RAZOR) sharp as well as much faster than a three blade, and have never really had an issue with a lack of blood.

I also believe a two edge head zips thru with much less resistance providing no heavy bone is encountered, creating much less reaction from the animal. I have killed two hogs with arrows, and both of them ran till they dropped, so it does not matter with some animals, but for skittish whitetails, I believe the quicker they stop to survey what happened, the easier they are to find.

I have alot of friends who bowhunt, and my bloodtrails (if you want to call them trails) are significantly shorter than any of them who use multi blade heads. I rarely have a deer out of sight or hearing when it goes down. I also do not shoot at alerted deer, this may actually be a bigger factor than I realize.

I might use a cut on contact three blade, IF I could get them as sharp with as little effort as a two edge.

While I can not prove it, I am of the suspicion that single bevel 2 blade heads leave better trails than double bevel two blades.  It might be the rotational nature of the wound, it might be because I can personally get single bevels sharper than anything else...or I might just be flat out wrong...but that has been my personal observation thus far.  Time will tell I hope.

If your only criteria for selection between the two heads you mentioned is blood on the ground, I'd suggest the Woodsman.

Several have suggested two blade w/bleeder style heads and I concur they'd be a great option, likely outpenetrating the Woodsman while still generally putting more blood on the ground than a two blade.

All that said, I am still firmly a believer in shot placement and broadhead sharpness trumping everything else in regards to blood trails.  Like most anyone who has bowhunted any amount of time, I've experienced gusher trails to no blood till recovery with just about every style of head.

If your red and green deficient maybe you should luminal or some of the spray's like it it turns the blood luminescent blue with certain lights.or I hate say it use Grim reaper razor tip expandables they are devastating!!

Tim here's a little tip for ya I carry spray bottle of Hydrogen Peroxide if you see something wet and are in doubt if it is blood spray it with HP and if it is blood it will foam up white. works great.

I'm colorblind like you.  I shoot the biggest broadhead I can consistently get out the other side, which for me is a 2" Treeshark.  I need super-heavy blood trails (and I usually get them).

Getting 2 holes and hitting the vitals at a good angle are the key, especially from a treestand. With your setup you should be able to shoot through deer with any broadhead as long as its truly shaving sharp. I am shooting a setup very similar to you and have been very pleased with Muzzy Phantom 4 blades. They fly true and leave great bloodtrails. I think every style head has its pros and cons. I use the one I can get the sharpest.

RC gave the smartest advise on broadheads... he shoots a Magnus because he can sharpen them the easiest.   I choose the broadhead I shoot for the same reason.   I've seen good and bad blood trails with 2,3 and 4 blades, most if not all were determined by the shot angle, shot placement and sharpness of the head not the number of blades on the head.

Bill,
That is a great observation too.  Same way I was taught when I was young. dino

I love this one!  Why? Because I too struggle with this same question all the time    :banghead:    . In over 30 years of bowhunting deer, I have shot 'em with 2,3,4 and 5 blade broadheads.  I have gotten nonexistent to great bloodtrails with all.  With broadheads that exit, I normally have enough blood to find 'em.  Broadheads that don't exit, well; bloodtrails can be spotty at best.        I shoot about 45-46 lbs. and hunt from treestands.  The areas I hunt have heavy cover so I'm always trying to balance pentration with blood on the ground.  If I shoot a deer with a 2 blade and have a marginal hit resulting in little blood on the ground I beat myself up thinking that I should used a 3 or 4 blade.  If on the other hand I hit one and don't get a pass-through, why didn't I use a 2 blade?    :confused:    I have a love/hate relationship with Woodsman broadheads. They are one of the best flying, easily sharpened broadhead I have ever used.  I have used them on and off for several years. Some bloodtrails were great, others not. Some times I thought I should have gotten more penetration.  Other times they blew through.  Unfortunately, the biggest buck I have ever dropped a string on was hit with a Woodsman.  I thought I had heart shot him but I must have hit the leg bone. Trailed him for a long, long ways before the bloodtrail petered out. If I had been using a 2 blade would I have gotten him? I have used some single bevel broadheads too.  I had problems sharpening them.  I have killed some deer with them though. Bloodtrails?  Some good some not-so-good. Shot a doe last week and got a liver hit.  I was using a Zwickey 4-blade Eskimo.  The arrow blew through her (15 yards) and stuck deep in the dirt. Before I got on the bloodtrail a light misty rain set in. I my mind if I had been using a 2 blade, she might have been a meal for the 'yotes.  I think that the Zwickey 4 blade Eskimo is looking like its going to be my go-to-broadhead.  I finally got a system down that I can get'em and the bleeders real sharp.  The hydrogen peroxide is a great idea.  It works on dried blood too.  
Which broadhead should you use?  Don't ask me..I'm still working on that one myself.

If you want more blood then you need a sharper cutting surface.

We all know that everyone says your head needs to be scary sharp.  Most think that this is for penetration purposes and to some extent this is true.  However that is only part of the story.

The bigger reason is lethality.  When a body receives an injury to a blood vessel the body knows this and the tissue factor pathway kicks in.  If the cut is rough, shredded, and torn there are more cells that yell "fire" then if the cut was just slipped through.

This is from Wikipiedia:
"The main role of the tissue factor pathway is to generate a "thrombin burst," a process by which thrombin, the most important constituent of the coagulation cascade in terms of its feedback activation roles, is released instantaneously."

Huh you say, well thrombin is the chemical that signals your body to make clots.  The screaming cells makes this chemical active and it is what makes your blood turn fibrous at the injury site so you can stop bleeding.  

So bottom line If less cells know they are hurt then there is a smaller burst and you bleed longer.  The sharper the edge... the fewer cells hurt... the longer you bleed.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Tell:
So bottom line If less cells know they are hurt then there is a smaller burst and you bleed longer.  The sharper the edge... the fewer cells hurt... the longer you bleed.

In my opinion, it's not about "how long", but more about "how much" over a given distance.

If and animal is hit so as not to be immediately fatal(heart,lungs, or major artery), the body will know that something is wrong before too long. I'll count on the bigger wound to give me more blood to follow over a longer distance.

Given that the sharpness is the same, hit location is the same, the more tissue you cut, the more something is going to bleed...right?

Shot for shot, a "hole" will spill more blood than a "slit" of the same size don't ya think?


I think you'll be better off with the Woodsman if you can get them very sharp    :thumbsup:

Both 2- and 3-blade BHs, if sharpened correctly and the shot is properly placed, will provide great blood trails.

If this is a confidence issue that you are struggling with, and you are hunting from a stand or blind, you might consider using a string tracker.  Many have used string trackers successfully and they could give you useful information on their application.

Shoot straight, Shinken

QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Tell:
So bottom line If less cells know they are hurt then there is a smaller burst and you bleed longer.  The sharper the edge... the fewer cells hurt... the longer you bleed.

In my opinion, it's not about "how long", but more about "how much" over a given distance.

If and animal is hit so as not to be immediately fatal(heart,lungs, or major artery), the body will know that something is wrong before too long. I'll count on the bigger wound to give me more blood to follow over a longer distance.

Given that the sharpness is the same, hit location is the same, the more tissue you cut, the more something is going to bleed...right?

Shot for shot, a "hole" will spill more blood than a "slit" of the same size don't ya think?


I think you'll be better off with the Woodsman if you can get them very sharp     :thumbsup:  [/b]

I completely agree with all you said.  I am not advocating a wound like a slit.  I am not saying that a 2 blade is better then a 3 or 4.

What I am advocating is a very clean cut versus a tear.  A very precise cut from a very very sharp blade will bleed more and longer.  A dull blade tears the tissue.  A cut from a dull blade will bleed less in volume and will stop bleeding sooner.

When you cut yourself shaving you typically don't even feel it and it will bleed for a long time.

I have become a fan of the big boy two blades the ones packing 1.5 + inches of cut. I sharpen them razor sharp and shoot them out of bows around 50 to 52 lbs at 27" draw. I have had no issues on blood trails and recovering game on deer/wild hogs.

Lots of good opinions here, so thanks!  I should have been more specific... I've used 3 blade broadheads with my pulley popper and had good success, as well as with a very large popular 2 blade.  I'm switching over (back) to traditional, and am not sure what I'm going to use...

Although, I am now considering the Magnus 4 blade 150 gr, with a 100 grain brass insert for 250 gr up front on an approx 550 grain arrow.

I guess that's part of the fun is playing around and trying things...

Keep the advice coming!

-Tim

You left out a four blade, those little bleeders will keep the wound open giving great blood trails with little effect on penetration. I shoot 45# my arrows are weighing 460 grains and I routinely get a pass through on deer.

Well if everything is the same size I would vote for more blades.More cuts makes more blood.If you shoot enough weight bigger is always better no matter if it is a two blade or any other head.When I am looking lots of blood (hogs) I use a treeshark myself.For deer hunting since I shoot light weight bows and my arrows are not that heavy I use a small multibled head like the VPA or stinger 4 blade.They won't bleed like a treeshark but I am not color blind and usually see deer fall anyway.

I think SlowboMo said it best

"All that said, I am still firmly a believer in shot placement and broadhead sharpness trumping everything else in regards to blood trails. Like most anyone who has bowhunted any amount of time, I've experienced gusher trails to no blood till recovery with just about every style of head."

I started out using the Zwickey Eskimo, killed my first Black bear with one. Now Im using Grizzly El Grandes. With both broadheads I have never seen a "slit" just elongated holes
Gilbert

I've had 5 recent bow kills where the shaft was snapped off as the off-side shoulder came back as the arrow was "passing through", snapping off the broad head and leaving the shaft sticking in the deer.

2 blade or WWoodies, I had dismal blood trails when the shaft plugged the hole.

Speaking to Ed Ashby on the topic, he pointed out some "sharp" heads are indeed, sharp going in but not so much so going out.

Now I sharpen with a 25* bevel instead of a 20* and with diligence (and KME equip) I get much, much sharper 2 blades.

On that note, I've read and heard all the "scary sharp" for 3 blade, but some I've seen weren't...and those that might be, I know I can't do it myself...so I go for blades that I can get super sharp,---that is a durable edge 2 blade.

Doesn't stop the issue where instant reaction on the off-side leg snaps the shaft and it remains inside the deer, plugging the hole... but I've had most deer die within 60 yards and either saw or heard them fall.

As Rc noted, pass throughs, where it didn't get snapped off...deer just mozied off and dropped over or jumped a few jumps and keeled over.

I think blood trails are related to fat layers too. Several years in a row, deer had so much fat on them, the low pass through hole was clogged with fat when retrieved.

Indeed...many variables.  I'd say "shoot what YOU can get sharpest!"

The 2 blade vs 4 blade blood trail thing will always debated. Take two plastic bags and fill them with water. Puncture one with a 2 blade and the other with a 3 or 4 blade and see which empties the quickest. I wanna bet on the multi-blade bag!

Very good analogy Bill    :notworthy:

I've had extremely good luck with 2 blade heads over the years. They were literally razor sharp.
Good blood trails are expected but occassionaly a trail isn't so great, depends on placement.
  For whatever reason my experience with 3 blade heads hasn't been as good. Just within the last 2 years I've learned to get 3 blade heads sharp, shaving sharp.. Still, based on my experiences I'll stay with 2 blade heads, more confidnece in them..
   This year I've used Abowyers only. The steel and temper in them is excellent allowing a degree of sharpness rarely seen.. And they hold their edge while penetrating.. Certainly among the best out there..
      Good placement equals good blood trails!

:confused:

What's wrong, Joe?

I shot quite a few deer with a 2 blade head and I never had much blood to follow and I'm not color blind. I had much better trails with the woodsman. I also liked the 4 blade magnus II. for penetration, I'd recommend shooting at least 10 gpp and make sure the bow and arrows are tuned well to get the best arrow flight. you should be good to go. best of luck brother.

I have killed a bunch of game with snuffers, woodsmans, and various and sundry 2 blades: this year 4 deer with grizzlies and one with a snuffer.  The snuffers leave 2x the blood of woodsmans, the woodsmans leave a very good trail, and the grizzlies leave a mininal trail.  HOWEVER, the grizzly trails are always VERY short, and I am using a 74# bow with 800 grain arrows. Last year I hit a very large buck in what should have of been a double lung shot instead got only a couple inches peentration because the tip curled on the angled rib.  I think the woodsman would work well for you, but ensure you snub the tip. I also think grizzlies would work well, but don't expect a great blood trail, you should see/hear them fall. I would not recommend snuffers for big game from your setup.

The only 2 broad heaads Ive used for the last serveral years are Magnus 2-blades and WW's. No comparison really, the WW in just about every case put more blood on the ground.

Hmmm... this is an interesting thread, and a topic that comes up often, as it should, because, ethically, we are talking about a clean kill here.  I applaud this... I have been on some compound shooting forums where guys talk about speed and 'whack em stack em'... its refreshing to have a discussion about ethical hunting that puts the animal down as quickly and painlessly as possible.

For me, I have only taken one deer (2nd year hunting) and did so with the training wheels, a mechanical broadhead, and a 35 yd shot that put the deer down in 20 yds flat.  What I saw there was a BIG hole and complete pass through.  The broad head had 5 blades, 2 cut on contact, then 3 opening 'main' blades.  I had good placement high on 1 lung slights back and quartering forward to the 2nd lung.  Now, all that said, with my recurve (which I still have yet to kill anything with) I use 2 blade broadheads.  I have the Eclipse single bevels (which are HARD to sharpen due to the very think tip of the blade... infact, Sharpster suggested I put a double bevel on the tip and single on the main blade... easier said then done, yet certainly easier than trying get a single bevel all the way down with a file... shulda got that wheel sharpening system from Alaskanbowhunting!)  Right now, I have sharp tip, but sharper main blade.  I believe these will zip through a whitetail with a good clean shot, and the single bevel nature should give me a little extra punch.  If I get an opportunity to use one this season, I'll post the results!

I have always had good success with a sharp Snuffer  :eek:    :thumbsup:

(http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg295/j2adams/DSC00599.jpg)

Bill said "The 2 blade vs 4 blade blood trail thing will always debated. Take two plastic bags and fill them with water. Puncture one with a 2 blade and the other with a 3 or 4 blade and see which empties the quickest. I wanna bet on the multi-blade bag!"

Bill your example is true, when it comes to plastic bags or any other type of empty container. But the anatomy of animal is nothing like an empty plastic bag. When it comes to blood on the ground, to use that analogy is misleading. I say this with all due respect, not trying to start anything.

I don't believe that there is a broadhead that will guaranty good blood trials 100% of the time. Too, many varibles are involved. Your best odds at getting a good blood trail are razor sharp broadhead, 2 holes, and shot placement. I believe your odds go up a lot if your exit hole is lower than your entry hole.
I guess the debate will go on forever and thats good. I think it makes us better hunters.

Just my opinon and some experince.

Take care

Gilbert

This is strictly a personal opinion. This is the first year in fifteen years that I have went to a three blade head from a two blade. It is the first year that I lost a buck due to lack of penetration when I hit him square in the shoulder. Now maybe that still would have happened with a two blade, I will never know. What I do know is from now on I will be shooting two blade where I get complete penetration and very short blood trails.

I have shot numerous different animals with 2 and 4 blade (bleeders) heads. I have never felt I had adequate horsepower (45-50) for WWs or Snuffers.

So I will not argue which head produces more blood from one hole as I have had mixed results even amongst 2 and 4. The only thing I will say is that in my experience animals with two holes left more blood on the ground than animals with one hole. Especially treestand shots where the entrance wound is typically higher.

I have had the same results as champ,as far as blood trails. Properly tuned arrows and sharp blades are critical for reliable results. My 2cents.

Have always shot 2 blades, mainly magnus I and zwickey delta with good results.  That being said I shot a doe with a woodsman out of a 46lb widow this week and it was the most impressive blood trail I've ever had.  Stevie Wonder could have followed it.

I've killed deer with 2, 3 and 4 blade (Zwickey Delta) heads.  My best blood trail is a toss between the Delta and a 2-blade Ace Express.  Two kills with very sharp and well placed Woodsmans left very little blood, but neither went over 60 yds.  Sharpness, what gets cut and where the holes are is what makes the difference, IME.

woodsman elite bleeds greeat, but never shot one with a two blade.

I think for deer, I'll take a woodsman or snuffer every time.  That is if you are able to get a woodsman as sharp as you can get a two blade.  I mostly use two blades for big stuff when penetration may be an issue such as with African game, and in this case I use an eclipse head that I sharpen with a KME sharpener. By the way, the best way that I have been told to get either heads sharp is to lightly heat them with a torch and then use a snuffer tamer.  3 rivers tells you not to use a snuffer tamer on woodsmans, but I'm telling you I can get them 3 times sharper with this thing than with any other method.  Killed two does this season and both went down in sight and left a gruesome blood trail.  I can get woodsmans sharp enough to shave my face with this method. Works great!

I used 3 blades with my wheel bow and got good results. I also got good results with Magnus Stingers 2 and 4 blades with the same set up. Blood trail seemed more about the shot than the Broad head I used. If it was in the zone we got blood especially on a pass thru.
I have switched to Abowyer Brown Bears as my poundage has dropped way down and without penetration there won't be a blood trail. I am new to traditional hunting and this site has been a great help. I hope this set up will connect shortly and I can see the blood trail for myself.

One thing I have noticed for sure is that at least for me, I can get these Brown Bears sooooooooooooo sharp I'm afraid to look at them  :eek:

If you got the pounds to push it ...Snuffers Rule. I killed this pig with a Pronghorn that if I remember right was under 50 lbs.But from the ground. From trees I would shoot a smaller head and I do.RC (http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0152.jpg)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0149.jpg)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0153.jpg)

(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/rcswampbucket/IMG_0158.jpg)

that pig was what I call SNUFFERIZED  :thumbsup:

I've got some 125 grain Woodsmans but I think they are around 80 grains now(probably just my sharpening skills).....Just can't get them as sharp as I think they should be. My Brown Bears make great straight razors in a pinch.

I have heard what everybody thinks makes a better blood trail. It would be interesting if we new how many pounds of draw weight the bows shooting that preferred 2, 3 or 4 blade. That might show a weight that corresponded with 2, 3 or 4 blade preference in heads?

Maybe a survey    Broadhead preferences  

40#

45#

50#

Etc, etc..............

builder, not to pick on ya but that wasn't the 3 blade's fault that was a shoulder shot!  Not a good shot with any head if you hit the wrong part of the shoulder.  But I hear ya, if you don't have confidence in it then you should stick with what you do have confidence in.

Myself, I am a 3 blade guy and I've always got fantastic blood trails and penetration, but I've also never killed a deer with a bow under 60# at my draw length.

Here's my Snuffed doe from earlier this year.  Short and well painted blood trail.

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/varmint101/101109027.jpg)

 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v75/varmint101/101109028.jpg)

"Although, I am now considering the Magnus 4 blade 150 gr, with a 100 grain brass insert for 250 gr up front on an approx 550 grain arrow."

I use this same setup and before the 150's came out I used the 125's. Every animal I have shot with these heads died within eyesight. One was an elk that only went 50 yards, a few others walked 75 or so and fell over. My 2 deer the last 2 yrs went 20 ft and fell over. Blood trails on all of them was awesome, like walking down a red highway. All hits have been pass throughs.

They're easy for me to get super sharp and I do believe that sharpness makes a big difference.

Honestly, I think too many folks discuss this topic from the wrong premise...as soon as "Good shot placement" is assumed, then broadhead choice, frankly, doesn't matter.  You hit 'em in the heart/lungs and what is on the end of your arrow matters very little.

My feelings, having done this for 25 years and been in on LOTS of blood trials, is that MANY, MANY more deer are lost (and die) from an inadequately sized broadhead through the guts - where penetration is a non-issue - than to poor arrow penetration.  The majority of heavy bone hit deer that are lost are non-fatal injuries - ie shoulder or high back/loin shots.  A gutshot deer will ALWAYS die -- at that point it is up to you to find him.

When, not if, but when, you gutshoot a deer you will be glad of the extra cutting size/blades - the more of the insides you can let outside at that point the better off you are.

My opinion is any reasonably efficient setup of 50 lbs or over is sufficient for the larger multiblade heads on animals up to whitetail/pig/bear size.  Personally, I shoot bows in the mid 60#s and arrows to match - and I'll hunt anything in North America with 160 gr Snuffers and that setup.

.....and by the way, I'm color blind too - we are currently training a blood trailing dachshund, so I'll take all the insurance I can get on recovering my deer!

Best of luck with whatever you choose

R

My thoughts exactly Ryan!  Same thing I've been trying to stress on so many of these bh threads    :thumbsup:

In response to the comments posted by Mr. Rothhaar and Guru, all I can say is....   :clapper:

Exactly!

Well said.

May be off topic alittle but confidence in your shot placement is way more important than confidence in your broadhead when a poor hit is made,believe in positive reinforcement I will hit the goodies when I shoot,I carry 5 broadheads in my quiver all same weight 250 grain,but all different brands,1 stos,1 woodsman,1 ace, 1 semerod,1 eclipse,have faith in all of them when put in right spot,I would never do this but a field point through the goodies is better than any broadhead through the guts.As in blood trails when the arrow hits good stuff 2 or 3 or 4 blade does not matter blood trail will bring u to the animal,other factor is I see lots of people blood trail to fast and go right to quad. search instead of getting on knees and staying on blood,I kill lots of game and this is just my experience.

Me concurs with Ryan too.