Hi all:
A fellow AT member sent me this way and from what I've seen so far, this is going to be an awesome site and awesome resource.
I am a "trophy" hunter that has had pretty good success but after this year was "lacking something" in my hunting. I bow hunted the most I ever had, and seemed to have less fun. Of course, Wisconsin's horrible season didn't help, but I just found something missing.
The quest for continued "trophy hunting" seems to be getting out of whack mentally and financially. It took a $10K out-of-pocket surgery expense for one of my son's to "put me over the edge" per se, but I have decided to enter the world of traditional and get back to "enjoying the hunt" rather than "chasing the rack."
I ordered two Samick Sages for myself and my 17 year old son (15 year old wanted to stick with modern) as it seemed like a good bow for our current financial situation. I am giving up my 1/3 of a 500 acre lease (my share $1500+/year) and going to hunt smaller parcels of land that will likely be FREE - lol.
My question is this - WHERE DO MY SON AND I START?
I am more video driven than book driven. And, I am hopefully going to see if I can track down a traditional archer in my local area as I was started in archery 15 years ago with a compound, peep, release and sights.
Thanks again and we look forward to being a part of this community. I feel that it has already brought back excitement to my hunting once I clicked "pay" on those Samick bows.
Tim
Welcome from Kentucky this is a great site.
TG is good help & advice. Most here have similar background. To start, you might decide on your style of bow design (LB vs recurve) by trying out as many as you're able at various ranges & shoots. Your eyes & heart will let you know PDQ. Then it's just a matter of fun & preparation for your hunting technique. If I can help just ask. Welcome from Texas.
Welcome Tim! And your sons too!
You're off to a good start for sure. There are more people here with a lifetime of experience than you can possibly imagine. There are certainly some good video's out there to be had. Tradgang just produced one recently but the name escapes me at the moment.
A couple basic item I'll throw out that some guys switching from compound to trad sometimes don't realize.
First is that you don't tune your bow to your arrows nearly as much as you tune your arrows to your bow. Not sure how much you know but longer arrows act weaker than short ones and heavier points make an arrow act weaker than light ones.
If you are shooting off the shelf, you need to use real feathers.
A heavy arrow will out penetrate a light one and will make your bow shoot quieter.
A well tuned arrow will fly and penetrate better than one that is not.
Trad broadheads for the most part do not come pre sharpened. Some do but most don't. It's just part of the annual ritual of getting ready for the season that you sharpen your broadheads.
Do a search here for anything to do with Dr. Ashby or EFOC to get some really good, up to date data on arrow performance and penetration. Most of it will deal with carbon arrows but it applies to woodies too.
A good cedar arrow can fly just as good as a carbon and they smell good too. They are more work though but again, part of the experience.
Check out the sponsors list at the top of the page. There are a ton of vendors selling anything you could possibly want archery related. Lots of good books available.
Lastly, feel free to ask right here!
p.s. Explore the site and do searches for basic questions. Most things have been asked many times and you can find a lot of great info by reading other peoples questions and answers. Notice the "Shoot on over to" at the bottom of the page. Click the down arrow and it opens a window to an index of all the topic areas. There are sections just for shooting tips, target stuff, classifieds, trad events and a bunch of others.
p.p.s. There is a link there to the Dr. Ashby report. I strongly suggest you read it if you have interest or concerns about penetration performance.
Thanks Dave. One other quick question if I could. So, does everyone here go 100% completely traditional? I.E. Wood arrows, shooting off shelf, sharpening broadheads?
Or, are there some hybrids here? I.E. Using carbon arrows, manufactured arrows such as the buzzcutt, and flipper rests?
As you asked/mentioned earlier - I know NOTHING - lol. I had gathered that arrow selection was paramount to good shooting from what I've seen so far. I don't know anything about spine as I have always brought my modern equipment to the bow shop for all tuning and such. I'll check out the links you mentioned.
Tim
If you are "video" driven, check out the G. Fred Asbell Instinctive Shooting Videos. Outstanding piece for learning. Sponsors carry them here. In fact, his direct link is at the top of this page....
Tim,
Sure there are a lot of guys who do not go all primitive. In fact, I'd say carbon arrows are almost more common that woods anymore. At least you see a lot more questions about them. As for flipper rests, nor sure which type you mean. There is a stick on sideplate/rest that has a little black plastic shark fin kinda rest that some guys use but I'd say probably 99% shoot directly off the shelf. The general idea is to get the arrow as close down to your hand as possible to help shooting instinctively. It's just a more natural "point and shoot" thing. Even if you are gap shooting or using some sort of aiming method, it still helps you develop a better feel for the shot.
As for arrows, you can buy pre-built arrows in either cedar or carbon but you still have to buy broadheads. Most of the time if you buy a dozen cedars from a vendor, they will cut them to length and put target points on them for you.
One word on broadheads too. Stay away from the mechanicals and modular types common with compound shooters and go with either a two or three bladed cut on contact head. They out penetrate the others by a BUNCH.
If you already have arrows left over from your compound, you could probably have the vanes replaced with feathers and shoot them if the spine is correct.
Have you had your draw length checked yet? Most guys seem to loose an inch or so going to a corner of the mouth anchor, fingers shooting traditional style.
Search also for O. L. Adcock's arrow tuning page. He's got a good explanation of the whole arrow tuning process. Really more info than you need but a great source.
If you know nothing about spine, here's the short version.... There are two categories of spine. Static and dynamic.
Static spine: What arrow makers use. An arrow shaft gets placed on two supports 26" apart, hang a two pound weight in the middle and measure the sag (deflection) in thousandths of an inch then convert with available spine charts to determine bow weight range the arrow will work in. If testing wood arrows, grain orientation makes a difference. Test with edge grain going up and down.
Dynamic spine: How the arrow acts while being shot. Trad bows are usually not quite center shot so the arrow has to bend around the riser when you shoot. Dynamic spine is just that. It is a moving "dynamic" flexing of the arrow when yo shoot. Because it is dynamic, multiple factors effect it. That's where I was talking about arrow length and heavier or lighter points above. Other factors are the actual power or performance level of the bow, string material, string weight and the shooters form.
Most guys bare shaft their arrows to tune them to their bow. If you are right handed, a stiff arrow will fly tail right and a weak one tail left. However, point of impact is equally important and O.L's site explains all that.
For actually tuning your bow, the two main things are to adjust the brace height (distance from the string to the lowest point on the handle) and adjust your string nock position. Usually it is around 1/2" above the shelf give or take 1/8" but sometimes close to 3/4".
Ok Dave, now you are scaring me - lol. This "project" will begin after Xmas for us. I think the deal I made with the wife was that these are now officially Xmas presents that will be wrapped up until Xmas - lol.
That may give me some time to order some video stuff for Xmas as well and hopefully hook up with a local traditional guy in my area. I am pretty much mechanically illiterate, so this traditional shooting will be a struggle for me until I get the hand of it.
I can def. see where the reward is great when shooting a good shot and ANY animal with a stick and a string.
Tim
I don't know what the breakdown is but you will see a mix of wood,aluminum and carbon users here.A few use elevated rests but more shoot off the shelf.
Go to bowmaker.net and follow the tuning advice.That will get you where you want to go.
I think you will find a new excitement in your hunting.You will have to get used to seeing a few deer pass outside your effective shooting range.Some converts focus on the fact that they could have taken the shot with their former equipment.Forget that and enjoy the moment.There will be as many opportunities that you can sieze with the trad equipment that you couldn't with the other gear.It is smoother and faster,though you may give up a few yards.
Learn to enjoy the entire process from unwrapping the new bow to tuning arrows and bow to practice,to working strategies to get close enough to game to make your shot.It is all about the journey not just the end result.
It sounds like you are looking for a way to bring new enjoyment to your hunting.You have found it and you have come to the right place.
Welcome Tim! Where in WI are you from?
You will find this forum very helpful in your new pursuit of traditional archery.
Even though you stated that you are more video driven, I would suggest your get a copy of Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook By: TJ Conrads. I fact I have a copy you can read if you would like.
It is a great book for any beginner Traditionalist. It will help you understand the history of the sport and hopefully give you a better insight of the journey that your are about to embark upon.
I switched back to Traditional about two years ago and I am having the most fun I have had in years. I want to warn you! It is addicting, but don't expect instant success, it takes some time to make the transition, but I think you will find the people and the journey worth while.
PM Sent...
QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin Winkler:
Welcome Tim! Where in WI are you from?
You will find this forum very helpful in your new pursuit of traditional archery.
Even though you stated that you are more video driven, I would suggest your get a copy of Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook By: TJ Conrads. I fact I have a copy you can read if you would like.
It is a great book for any beginner Traditionalist. It will help you understand the history of the sport and hopefully give you a better insight of the journey that your are about to embark upon.
I switched back to Traditional about two years ago and I am having the most fun I have had in years. I want to warn you! It is addicting, but don't expect instant success, it takes some time to make the transition, but I think you will find the people and the journey worth while.
Kevin:
I am about 20 minutes north of Lacrosse. It is usually good hunting around here (even with the horrible conditions this year I still passed up a few lesser 3.5 year olds) so I hope that getting close to deer won't be a problem. I'll have to learn some new hunting ground, but I am quite positive I'll be excited to shoot any deer with a recurve.
I'd love to borrow the book if I could. I'm pretty reliable and am impressed by the pm's I have received already on this site. I am more concerned about getting my 17 year old started off right and wonder how he'll do as he is heading off to college next year.
Thanks again,
Tim
Tim, Welcome! I switched over about 2 years ago.
Besides all the wisdom on this site I would recommend, as Dave said this site
http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html
there is a wealth of information for you to print out and read regarding the tuning process.
To help you get in the ball park with arrow selection and weighting I would suggest you take a look at Stu Millers Dynamic Spine Calculator. It has helped me immensely with my selections.
Stu has contributed it to the community and may be downloaded at
http://www.heilakka.com/stumiller/
I have found it accurate and FUN. You need a spreadsheet program like excel to run it.
If you do not have a program you can download a free one from Openoffice.org
Your in for some fun times. Merry Christmas!!
Les Heilakka
Agree with BobW. G. Fred is a great teacher. It is a gift. His instruction will get you on target and trad hunting pretty fast and in a hurry. And welcome to the school of hard knocks!
Welcome and you bath are now enrolled in Traditional archery college and these are your professors.Enjoy the school year.
My son got involved with me. He is now a junior at University of NH and a member of the Archery Club. He shoots wheel hunter class but loves to pull out his recurve for relaxation and fun.
Welcome to the Gang! If you scroll way down to the end of the TG menu page, you will find a link to the Wisconsin Traditional Archers. You should be able to find some local trad shooters there. I'll also second the T.J. Conrads book. There is a ton of good info there.
Enjoy the journey!