Trad Gang

Any comments/opinions on wood arrow material.  I am especially interested in knowing why folks may choose sitka spruce, or ramin, or forged wood arrows.  I know they are different weights, what about strength and resistance to shock, penetration etc.

I would love to hear what you think.

Bob.

I've never shot any of the above mentioned woods I have shot cedar and lam birch with great results and I have also shot cane and boo arrows. The toughest in my opinion is the lam birch its just a bit heavy. I prefer to shoot cedar.I think as long as you have at least a 500-550 gr arrow penetration would not be an issue with any shaft.

Personaly I prefer bamboo then douglas fir,pine,poplar.Maybee its my bow or me but cedar or carbons are useless with my bow.I have shattered plenty of cedar and carbons to never use them again.

I've shot sitka spruce (good target arras), chundoo (lodepole pine) which were tough shafts, and poc woodies. Hard to beat a nice cedar shaft, but I'm working on a big batch of tonkin cane for next year. That'll prolly be my go-to material from now on. Flies great, tough as nails, looks cool!

Do yourself a favor and check out Surewood Shafts. They are the best douglas fir shafts on the market! They are a good weight, durable,and really straight. Just a great shaft to work with when making arrows. Love them! They are the only wood I will use now. I have made arrows out of other woods. But after finding Surewood shafts my search is done. Good folks to deal with too.
Forged wood shafts haven't been made for several years. They were a great shaft in their day. But you have to have wanted to shoot a heavy arrow. I have some with 160gr. heads that weigh over 800grs.

They hardwood shafts like Ash are heavier and tougher but they require constant maintenance because they warp easily and are more affected by moisture in the air.  The spruce or cedar shafts don't require as much straightening but they aren't as tough or heavy.  As far as the toughness goes, unless you're gonna be shooting rocks it won't make much difference.  I personally choose to give up the extra weight and shoot cedars because they're easy to maintain and plenty tough, and at 28" they come in at around 500 grain.

I love my "super cedars" - that unfortunately are no longer available.  They are poplar.  As I always comment, its a darn shame they aren't made anymore.  Don, you did good!

Like most things, wood arrow material choice is a compromise, with straightness, mass weight and durability being the main differences.  They will all shoot well when well made and tuned to the bow.  In general, the softwoods: spruce, cedar, fir and pine(hexpine), are lighter in weight and less durable than the hardwoods: ramin, birch, laminated birch, maple, hickory and ash.  The softwoods are generally easier to straighten and maintain.

P.O. Cedar has been the wood standard since the hey days of the 40's, 50's , 60's and into the 70's.  It makes fine arrow, is easy to work and was relatively cheap to obtain. It is also on the light side, probably the least durable and quality shafts, altho available, are getting tough to find.  Spruce is a bit lighter on average but tougher and fir is heavier and tougher.  Lodgepole pine is pretty much only available currently as Hexpine, a radially laminated product heavier and tougher than POC and a very good arrow wood also.  Personally, I'm shooting Fir these days as I can easily get the weight, toughness and quality I need at a reasonable cost and IMO is a superior arrow wood.

The hardwoods definitely have their place.  I have shot a bunch or ramin and lam birch over the years and won't hesitate to use it again.

Fletcher, are the fir shafts available in high spines like 100-105 and longer lengths like 33-34"?

Any good sources?

I'll second the surewood shafts recommendation...best out there, easily...

Dave,

there is little or nothing for us.....  

For target and big game hunting, I like Port Orford Cedar. For stumps and rabbits, I prefer ash. I have ash arrows that are now 10 years old. They do warp easy, but not that difficult to straighten. Sitka Spruce makes a nice arrow that's a reasonable compromise between straightness and toughness.

Dave and Bob,  The high spine shafts are available thru Surewood up to about 115+ but only 32" full length.  Need to foot them by one method or another to get more length.  Not all that bad tho as the front end becomes MUCH stronger.

I plan to jig up for footing over the winter.  I want some for myself and would gladly do some for others.

I second the douglas fir from Surewood Shafts that Snag mentioned.  I've used compressed, tapered cedars for years and this is the first wood shaft that got me to change. They come incredibly straight - you should only have to do minor touch-ups on a few - and they are very strong.  I always double check all the spine and weight measurements when I get my shafts and he has always been right on.  You can't go wrong with them.

BobW, thanks again! I still have about 80 dozen left in various spines. Selling them off a little at a time... but I'll make sure I have a lifetime supply for myself!

The name "Superceder" was a play on words that not many people caught. Too hip for the room, as my bro the musician was fond of saying.

Personally, Ramin is in my Price Range, they are plenty Tough for Me, and they arent hard to Straighten. Besides that, if ya got a Wally-World, ya got Arrow Shafts! LOL

Don, what spines you have in your arsenal? I am down to about 1/2 doz. of your Superceders. Thanks.

God bless,

José

Bowferd,
    Google "The Bowyers Edge" to access Dean's site.

Hard to beat a good tapered POC shaft, fir is second on my list. but you will shoot the spine out of a fir shaft long before a cedar.
Ramin make a very good shaft, hard to pick out the grain layers. Lodgepole pine(chundoo) also makes a fair shaft, stinks when you sand it, and almost always has blue stain fungi. Pine makes a beautifil shaft, but hard to keep straight. Maple-Ash-Hickory,IMO are made for furniture, not so good for arrow shafts. They are overly heavy, and are not straight. You can steam them straight, but they will go crooked just shooting them. Poplar is too light. Haven't made arrows out of the other woods, so have no advice.
Jim

Jim, poplar is a little heavier than POC, on average. My 28" arrows usually weigh around 600 grains with 160 g. points. It's the lightest of the hardwoods that make good shafts, but a little heavier than most softwoods.

Don, those Superceders are Magnolia aren't they?

"you will shoot the spine out of a fir shaft long before a cedar".


Jim:
 40years of shooting POC and 30years of shooting Doug fir, I find the opposite of this to be true. IMHO

stump

(http://i842.photobucket.com/albums/zz343/getstonedpimitivebowhunt/webredoserdebarked-1.jpg)

debarked Red Oser shafts for primitive arrows

Ramin, Ramin, and Ramin! I still have quite a few 5/16 shafts in 50-60 lb spine and alot of 11/32 dia. in spine up to 100lb.

I bought mine back in the early nineties, that were sold thru Acme. Sure wish they could get them again!

I have pine, chundoo which are are fine shootin shafts also.

Like Tom Leeman, I have been shooting cane this past year, very impressive. I should have heeded Jay's advice years ago, instead of the progression of trying different shafts. But it has been fun!    :)

Bob W. I sent you a PM about poplars and where to get em but he dosent have actual
"super cedars" just regular poplars and not sure on what all spine he has sorry bout that

I've tryed almost every wood arrow out there.cedar,pine,chundoo,Hexpine,lam.birch,ash and sitka spruce.And by far in my opinion the sitka spruce are the best.They are as straight as premium cedars and tough as nails.I was told once that sitka spruce is one of the strongest woods pound for pound there is.

Dave and Bob W check out seigworks he makes long shafts out of some Texas bass wood.

Bjorn, yes. Yellow poplar is in the Magnolia family. Yellow poplar isn't a true poplar at all. The true poplars, genus Populus, like cottonwood and quaking aspen, aren't as good for arrow shaft material.

Don;
My 50 lb, 28" bop tapered cedars weigh in at 550 grains, with a 125 gr fp.
I was told back in the day, that "Supercedars" were yellow cedar?
Stump;
You must be about 90? LOL
I'm a youngster, I've only been hunting with a stick bow for 40 years, made arrows professionally for better than 20 years. Made, and sold tapered cedars since the early 80s.
My observations are my own, just because I see something different than you is fine, we are entitled to our own opinions.
I always figured Fir was second behind cedar.
Jim

poc for aesthetic nostalgia, aroma and inherent straightness

hex pines for durability, 360 degree rotational spine, and good straightness

ash or hickory for added weight and punch, though both typically need hand straightening after use

i almost always use the braveheart weight footing on all woodies

Jim, we experimented with Alaska yellow cedar for the Superceders, but it didn't work out well. We settled on yellow poplar (Magnolia) because it had the best strength/weight ratio of woods in our area, and the straightest grain.

Alaska yellow cedar is very hard to obtain (high demand), and even though it's in the same genus as POC, we found it to be much heavier for the same spine, and it had lower spine than POC in normal arrow shaft diameters.

I use ash. I have had some GREAT results with arrows I made from sourwood shoots.

In my experience, Hildebrand Sitka Spruce shafts are VERY straight and want to stay that way and Surewood Douglas Firs are close in both categories and readily available in heavier weights. Cedar equaling these in quality seems hard to come by and on hard impacts breaks more often.

I'm also a big fan of Sitka Spruce.  I've got a couple dozen that I footed with purple heartwood and they are great.  I just footed them 2-wing style, which can be done completely by hand without any Jigs.  It takes awhile but gives me something to do on winter nights.