sorry if this is a dumb question but what is a foam core limb???
The foam core is just that. The core of the limb(inner laminations) is made up of a synthetic foam material as apposed to wood or glass. As for the foam I believe it is a ceramic base.
there are several people here who can give you a more in depth answer than I. Maybe Bob Morrison will jump on here.
Whats the point of the foam? I can't see how it could contribute to the speed of the bow at all. The only real benefit I can see is if it lightens the limb and the outer core provides the speed. Downside here is that the outer core if compressed could crack or break causing a failed limb.
TTT
The foam is a very consistent material. It is also very stable across a large temperature range. As for the weight per cubic cetimeter it is very close to red elm. This is not foam like you would normally think of. It is a very durable material. I have a Pronghorn longbow that took a pretty good fall this year with no serious damage.
I'm not convinced myself as to there being any advantage to a foam core bow. If you measure the draw force curve of identical bows you will see the same increments. So how then can the foam core bow be smoother? If it weighs the same as elm (in the example given), then how could a foam core bow be faster? Bow "smoothness" anyway, is mostly about string angles and limb geometry, little else. I have a glassless bow that will outperform the same glass version but that is because the carbon used is much lighter than glass and with all the other variables remaining the same you are inevitably going to pick up some speed. Carbon is more resistant to torguing as well so it will be more forgiving. That being said, I loved the foam core bow I shot but I would bet if you blind folded me I wouldn't be able to tell it from the wood version.
One uncertainty: FerretWYO brings up an interesting question, that of what materials would be the most stable across a large temperature range? How would elm compare? Would there be a significant difference that you would notice?
I'm not sure about the technical aspect of foam core limb but I do have a recurve with carbon limbs with foam core. It is 46# @28 and my draw is close to 28" it put a four blade broad head in one side and out the other on a deer at a pretty severe angle so it had to travel through a lot of deer to get this done, that impressed the heck out of me.
I've talked w/ Bill Dunn about foam and shot his foam core design.Very impressive!I did notice w/ his design,is that it has a thick core and wonder if you use this design along w/ trapping the limbs if you would have something very special?
I have a Morrison Cheyenne. It had a set of Boo core limbs then I bought a set of foam cores. You can definitely feel and tell the difference in Bob's limbs. I sold the boo limbs.
Smoother to draw with less shock and faster.
Quote"I have been using the foam cores for over a year now, I'm very happy with it and the only core I will use for my personal bows."
This is what Bob Morrison said some time back about foam cores. He might know a thing or two about limb design.
Foam cores originated with FITA shooters who would shoot hundreds ofshots in very hot summer-like temperatures. The foam adds consistencey to the limbs under variable climatic conditions and in addition add some performance variables. FITA archers shooting at 100 yards are sensitive to changes in their equipment and foam limbs seem to dominate that scene for that reason. Not all bowyers are completely sold on foam. i have a pair of Winex foam core limbs on my DAS and on my wife's DAS. Best shooting bows I have ever shot. Sid from Border claims that limb design (geometry) is about 90% of a bow's performance. I will be getting a set of Border HEX V limbs in late winter with wood cores. Sid told me I would only gain perhaps 2 fps with the foam. I will be happy to report on my experience with the limbs compared to the foam cores after I have had a chance to shoot them.
I've done some research on foam cores because I've had all the same questions as you guys. What I found is that Hoyt has used foam limbs since 1972 in the olympic bows. Many, many compound manufactures are going to foam cores. I've also talked to numerous guys(non-bowyers) about the foam. Some are sold while others are on the fence. I personally have shot 4 bows by 4 bowyers who've used foam in the limbs. All bows drew smoother and felt like they were 10# less weight than marked. Doc Springer has a super sweet Morrison recurve with foam. It is an awesome shooter!
I've only heard limited bad about the foam. I'm currently waiting on a foam core Morrison to arrive. I'd love to hear from some bowyers about all the specifics. Hopefully Bob will drop by and have time to chat. Otherwise his phone is about to ring. :readit: Where are you Bob? :bigsmyl:
Properly made foam will give you a more torsionally stable limb than a wood core. It is more consistent and once a bowyer has their formula down for making weight, the limbs tend to be more even from bow to bow. You pick up two same model 50# bows from the same bowyer and they'll shoot pretty much identical where as wood core can have differences from limb set to limb set which is one of the reasons so many went to actionwood/actionboo cores at one time. Foam is forward progression from that material. I find them smoother to draw and a bit better in speed. While the weight is similar to Elm for some foams, the recovery time isn't.
What I can say about foam core is, No more torsionally stable than wood maybe less? that is where the correct layup of carbon comes in to play or the correct layup of Fiberglass. The foam is lighter than any wood, that is why you gain a few FPS, with less after shot vibration. It draws no moisture as Bamboo and woods will, Big problem in southern humidities.I have never had a failure that was caused by the foam, always some other component (wedge mostly in the beginning) It is quieter and smoother than anything else I have ever used in Laminations. Speed is not much if any better than a Maple core. It is harder for us anyway to hit weights, I think every batch of foam is just a little different. In testing the Maple cores with carbon speed is pretty close. Feel isn't, I still prefer the foam cores over any wood or Bamboo. Smoothness, Preformance and quietness is all there, and as far as I can tell so is the durablity.
Not sure of all the technical stuff about the foam cores but I've owned both boo and foam in my Morrisons. The foam was definately smoother, but more so, it was quieter. I don't need a bit of silencers on my bow! I couldn't believe how much quieter it was. That,to me, means alot.
Interesting stuff! I'm currently shooting the foam core Dakota. It came in earlier. I can certainly tell in drawing the bow the difference. It draws very smooth. I'm still messing with brace but she's very quiet right now. It certainly feels different. It shoots very well! CK
QuoteOriginally posted by Littlefeather:
Interesting stuff! I'm currently shooting the foam core Dakota. It came in earlier. I can certainly tell in drawing the bow the difference. It draws very smooth. I'm still messing with brace but she's very quiet right now. It certainly feels different. It shoots very well! CK
All the hogs in TX just went and finished their wills....they heard CK now has a Morrison. My oh my but the critters are in REEEAAAALL trouble now! :readit: :bigsmyl:
:readit: Still shootin!
I want that old Morrison of yours JC. The curve you were shooting when we filmed the bunny bust. Still got it? CK
QuoteOriginally posted by JC:
All the hogs in TX just went and finished their wills....they heard CK now has a Morrison. My oh my but the critters are in REEEAAAALL trouble now! :readit: :bigsmyl:
I think he could kill a pig with a broomstick and a long shoestring. Obviously pigs don't talk much amoung themselves, or they'd have all gotten the heck out of South Texas years ago. ;)
We've been using foam cores on some of the Shrew bows for some time now with good success. Benefits have been on the plus side with no negatives so far.
My initial decision to try the foam was after talking to Bob Morrison. Bob has always been willing to share his findings with other bowyers, something that puts him on my list of good guys. :readit:
Right now I'm shooting a Shrew prototype Model-T which has a foam core and carbon backed. I'm loving this bow, smooooth and fassst ...for lack of a better description. :archer:
I have to find out why all the Korean Olympic shooters (I've heard) are going back to wood. Anyone know? I've carbon in three of my bows.
I'm not adverse to any materials in limbs, I just haven't heard anything definitive yet that would make me want to spend more money. I'm annoyed with myself already that I keep upgrading my cell phone all the time! :rolleyes: :D
I'd still like to see a "blindfold test" where you didn't KNOW you were shooting foam. There are so many other products that have come out with new materials only to later be abandoned for various reasons. I see this in skiis all the time-as they need to flex, return and minimize vibrations as do bows. I'm constantly seeing "new cores" show up there as well; my experience in that sport probably contributes a bit to my cynicism here.
I've always really appreciated Mr. Morrison's honesty particularly and I am not doubtling anyone elses honesty/impressions. I may well be completely wrong! Hopefully I'll get to try out more of these foam bows on the PigGig! :)
Regardless of what you shoot, over the years it seems to me that the biggest error archers make, trad archers in particular, is that they fail to tune their equipment correctly. You can have the best foam core limbs, ILf riser, tricked out to the limit, but if your arrows are not tuned to the bow or vice versa, you don't practice enough, can't identify and correct shooting problems you have, you are not going to shoot well or at least consistently well. Over time products, materials and designs will evolve. If foam turns out to be a flash in the pan then it will be just that. There was a lot, a whole lot of flap over aluminum shafts when they first were talked about being used as hunting arrows. Same thing happened with fiberglass and then carbon arrows. Take a look around. Lots of things have changed since I got my first bow in 1951. But the basics still apply. Arrows and bows must be tuned to each other and the archer needs to use good form. Everything else is a personal choice.
Steve come up to Rutland and you can try same weight limbs with both cores.
QuoteOriginally posted by Littlefeather:
I want that old Morrison of yours JC. The curve you were shooting when we filmed the bunny bust. Still got it? CK
Sadly brother, I sold it before Bob developed his longbow limbs for the Cheyenne. I sure wish I had that riser back... :banghead:
I think the speed foam in and of itself contributes is marginal, it's a very small side benefit. But to me, the smoothness, sound characteristics, and that ethereal quality of "it just shoots better" are the reason for foam. My eye opening test was shooting foam core exclusively for a couple of months and then putting on the same poundage boo core limbs....the boos went up for sale the next day. Can I quantify why? Nope...but it was still real.
I have to tell what I did just yesterday. Before hunting I was doing some leaf shooting with a set of carbon Maple limbs, I had tested these next to foam and Carbon, speed was the same, that is were everything changes. Draw feel was close, Foam a little sweeter, At the shot no comparision. Foam is worth the extra $35. Dead quiet no vibration. I now have a set of Carbon Maple limbs for sale.
I've been holding off on using foam Bob. You just convinced me LOL.
Jeez Bob, Now that you've said that, how are you going to get rid of all your wood stock?! I feel a sale coming on! :D :thumbsup:
I have three sets of longbow ILF Morrison limbs. All are Carbon Foam and they are fantastic. One thing about them is they have a very high brace height weight and they make up several pounds on any bows that I have except for a carbon BW PL.
I'm also a Pronghorn man and I've seen the new foam core/glass limbs at the same time with several bows of different wood cores; actionboo, ash, and red elm. The foam core bow was noticeably lighter in the hand and just as fast on the crono, actually picking up a few pounds (shooting as fast as a heavier bow with the same arrow) on some of his bows there at the time.
I have foam core limbs on my Morrison Cheyenne's and I can say that I have never shot limbs as smooth or as quiet. I'm sold on them.
Claudia
I have foam core limbs on some of my Shrews and Morrisons. I prefer the foam cores to the boo cores in my other Shrews and Morrisons for the same reasons mentioned by JC and others. Design and quality of the bow are still the overriding factors for me, but the foam does give significant improvement in the limbs I have used compared to otherwise identical limbs from the same bowyer. Bob Morrison is the one who made a believer out of me and Ron LaClair and Gregg Coffey confirmed my beliefs. Now that Arvid Danielson has gone to foam and David Knipes is praising its virtues, I am positive the foam is a good material for limb cores.
Allan
I too had Boo Limbs first for my Morrison Cheyenne very nice limbs fast,quiet,and just a nice set of limbs. Since then I have bought foam core and foam/carbon core cheyenne limbs they are even faster,quieter, and smoother feel to them when I draw. Myself thats all I will buy now this could be different in other bow designs but foam works in the Cheyenne.
I found this old thread here and thought i'd ask if there has been any changes of heart since this thread started. i'm considering doing some prototyping with foam cores myself now, and thought i'd ask you seasoned vets, both archers and builders alike what you think about this stuff after some time has passed...
Thanks.... Kirk
I have a foam core Pronghorn coming in the next couple weeks. From reading this discussion, I think I'll like it. I'll let you all know.
I ordered a 58", 3 piece, green staind actionwood or laminate riser, with green glass, foam core limbs.
I can't wait to break it in on an antelope in about 6 weeks. Should be a great little bow for hunting out of a blind.
I had a used set of carbon/foam limbs I picked up. Had limb blowup at the wedge about 3 weeks after I got them. Have never had this happen with wood core limbs. Out of luck as far as warranty, makes me hesitant to try another set.
I just bought a set of foam/glass limbs for my Morrison Cheyenne here on the classifieds. They are very smooth and quiet. Still working out a good arrow set up for these limbs and they are pretty fast as well. Would like to try a set for my Shawnee too. Overall, I am pleased with these limbs.....Randy
Foam is light and actually very consistent, it gives the limb a very smooth feeling on the draw compared to anything I have used. All my new ILF limbs will have a foam core. Shawn
I still can't tell the difference in a set of Bamboo limbs and Foam limbs. All of Bob's limbs are great!
Foam core limbs are quiet and smooth. I have not had any issues.
I have LOTS of foam core limbs in Morrisons and Shrews and think it is perfect in all but my heaviest poundage bows. I have had zero problems with the limbs, including a near dry fire when nock broke recently.
Allan
I'll try anything once. Where do ya'll get the foam laminations?
Thanks guys... i appreciate the feed back. I'm ordering my foam from Dale Stahl.
i should jump over to the bowyer's work bench and see what some seasoned builders have to say regarding any practical application tricks...
From what I've gathered, not all carbon limb material is created equal. Is it the same for foam core?
Anyone have sources for foam core and carbon fiber limb material?
Thanx
QuoteOriginally posted by Zbone:
From what I've gathered, not all carbon limb material is created equal. Is it the same for foam core?
Anyone have sources for foam core and carbon fiber limb material?
Thanx
boy you have got that right about the carbon materials being NOT crated equal....
contact ACP and you can build your own recipe using different weaves and unidirectional lay ups.
the difference is incredible to say the least.
WARNNING! the stuff is pretty nasty to work with, and VERY expensive.
KirkII - Who is ACP?... Thanx