Trad Gang

I was just wondering how many here on TradGang only shoot Bucks?????

I started my hunting career in western NY on my Grandpa's and Uncle's farms in Madison Co. There was no doe shooting on the north side of US Rt.20.(unless you were bowhunting) The first 2 deer I killed were does with an old Bear Alaskan recurve. Then a spike with the gun,then more bucks and does followed with both bow and gun.....

Over the years I have killed a bunch of does,but as time went on,I let more and more does walk by. I like horns on the wall. I'm not a trophy hunter by any means,a spike is as good as a monster. I only had one deer head mounted,that was a big 8 point that I shot in 1985. It was the first,and it will be the last.

Over the last 10 years I have let many does pass only to end up with "tag soup" at the end of the season. No mind though,I LOVE deer meat but I have VERY limited freezer space. Now I know all about "deer managment" and "herd quality" etc. But I just don't like shooting does. It's a personal thing,I have no problems with anyone shooting does. It's just that I prefer not to.

Anyone out there "just like me"?????  :archer:

Only during the rifle season when that's all they allow me to shoot with my bow. Still have only shot one though.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your preference.  Myself, I look for one anterless and one antlered deer a year.

Ive only shot bucks so far but thats partially because I haven't had a good shot opportunity on a doe that wasn't a fawn or with fawns yet.

Everyone has their preferences.  As far as herd management, you have to keep the does down to keep a decent buck/doe ratio.  We are really starting to notice the benefits of this, and a 4 point on one side antler restriction on the family farm.  There are more bucks, and rattling/grunting bucks in is working for me for thr first time this year.  Also some of the best eating!!  Just my 2 cents.

No, not in the least.

I happily shoot either, but I respect your decision not to.

My family eats alot of deer meat. I always shoot does because they are trouble makers. I have killed two does and a buck this year and I am still chasing slick heads. I hunt counties where there is no limit on does as long as you have the tags.

I am the exact opposite.  I rarely let a doe walk unless a fawn, but bucks I think I let walk too much LOL!

Chuck,
I hunt for the meat.  I love to shoot bucks beacause it was the way I was raised.  That being said, I don't see alot of deer here now that all the farms are gone, so with a bow I will shoot either.  If I am not seeing many deer on our property I will not fill my doe tag if I have one.  I have done this many times.  I usually get a super sportsman license, so I treat my muzzleloader tag like a doe tag, and again end up leaving it unfilled.  I really wish the DEC would adopt the 3 point rule  for Delaware county, but they voted it down.  It does us no good to use that mentality on our 50 acres because the spike and forks will be gunned down as soon as they walk off our land, therefore we shoot them before someone else does.

20 years ago we never thought of shooting a doe on our property, but after 5 straight years of being skunked I ended up taking one. (2007 rifle season)  I was having venison withdrawl!

I haven't shot a doe in years mostly because there aren't enough deer here in my opinion. Have 6 tags of which I can shoot 2 Bucks. Have a Moose in the freezer so being picky. Have a month to do it with the best to come.

I've been buck only for years and eventually became buck only over 200lbs dressed.

But take into consideration that where I hunt whitetails are: 1)very big bodied and 2) I have access to a lot of private land and/or land that gets very little pressure.

So adding those extra conditons to the hunt have less of an impact than if I hunted in an area that saw lots of pressure. Its very unusual to even see another hunter all season, but it is still quite a challenge to fill my tag. Older whitetails are, if anything, careful...


Joshua

Down here in Alabama in the county i hunt in we can legally kill over 100 deer a year. I shoot every doe i get a chance at and i have 3 walls full of mounts of some pretty dang good deer. Our herd is just to big down here and the does need thinning out. Plus i just took up trad and im having a ball chasing those slick headed suckers.

I guess if I saw more deer I mite get picky,but the numbers of deer I get to see will make me take the first deer that offers its self to me. I like eating venison and have'nt had any in a long, long time. Buck or doe, with a bow, down it goes. Most trips afield I'm am just as happy to see a deer.....I'm not happy very often...lol!!!

Let me also add that i hunt 3,000 private acrs so im given lots of chances on deer. If i hunted a place where the deer herd wasnt that good i might try for a buck only.

I try and shoot all the doe fawns I can! I really don't like shooting older does as I feel ya kill 3 deer by doing that, The one ya shot and the 2 fawns she would of had. In areas where there are to many deer shoot those older does. I used to be able to see 15-20 deer in my bow only area and now on agood day I will see 6-8 deer. I the last 5 days I have seen 18 deer and only 6 were does. It is up to the hunter but if ya want a good rut you should try and thin the does Shawn

Shawn, I agree with you about shooting the fawns,from what I've seen most don't make it through the winter anyway. But,thinning the does for a good rut??? Yeah I know,buck-doe ratio etc. but how do you know which does to shoot??? If you shoot a doe that's already come into heat and been bred,then she is done and no longer an attaction,but what if you shoot one that hasen't come into heat yet??? Now you have taken "Buck Bait" out of the herd.

I tend to think that if you leave the does alone,the bucks will just keep coming back as more of the does come into heat.

(JMHO but heck,what do I know)LOL

A good rut is all about availability of does and competition to breed them...

I've hunted places (not in NY!)where the ratio was very good and it's like a different world!

Hmmmmm.....   :confused:  

Years ago I had a piece of propery to hunt exclusively. There was no doe shooting allowed by the owner. The place was LOADED with does AND bucks!!!!! Nobody on any of the surrounding properties were seeing ANY deer,but we killed 9 bucks off that land in a week.

(just looking for feedback and info,I know what are considered "good managment" practices.But experiance has kinda taught me otherwise)

In New Jersey you can only get three bucks the whole year except during permit season then they cost you $32.00 a zone and it's one per zone so you have to travel from zone to zone that is a lot of car time.

Shoot does early and as Nov. approaches hold off and hunt those doe groups to bring you a buck. Too many does and the rut is nothing but a trickle rut lasting a few weeks,when actual breeding should be mostly complete in a 10 to 12 day period. Also there is no competition for the bucks and a lot of young inferior genes go back in to the herd as with so many does those inferior bucks get to breed. In a herd with good buck to doe ratio mostly dominate mature bucks do the breeding. Shawn

OK, So lets say that you have a 1-2 buck to doe ratio..... Not all of the bucks are dominate,so let say you have 10 bucks and 20 does (fawns don't count lol)assuming that NONE of these deer get shot during the rut.(as in NO HUNTING ALLOWED)

For bucks you have 2 dominate bucks,3 good bucks(big 6-8 points) and 5 spikes and forkhorns. Reasearch has proven that a buck usualy stays with a doe for about 3 days breeding her mulitple times over that period. If a "good rut" usualy lasts 10-12 days the 2 dominate bucks could only possibly breed 3-4 does during the rut leaving the other does left to the lesser bucks.

This is why I have a problem with QDM being instilled on public land.As soon as a buck gets "legal" he is usualy promptly shot.Leaving the "protected" smaller bucks to do the majority of the breeding.

(Just one "old farts" oppinion)

Are you a hunter or a bookie...LOL

I shoot what ever gives me the shot. I have seen two deer form my stand on public land this year and I shot one of them. It was a five point, just my opinion...Howard

Chuck - Im starting to feel the same way. The last 3 deer that I have taken have been bucks and I have let alot of does walk on by. I don't understand the ratio advantage of having less does available for the bucks to breed. I always thought that the more does available to breed results in more chances of bucks being born in the spring next season. What am I missing?

Which brings up another point John.....

Research has shown,that in areas where there is a high doe to buck ratio(i.e. 6-8 does to 1 buck) the majority of the does will drop buck fawns. Mother Nature's way controling the deer herd. Personaly I think she does a better job of controling the deer population than we ever can. Unfortunaltly,years from now when(if)our deer herds are a "mis-managed" mess,it will probly be to late to learn that the old saying rings true.....

DON'T MESS WITH MOTHER NATURE  :scared:

I've quit shooting small bucks. Doe meat is my preference, so if I don't want to show off the antlers the young bucks keep walking.

I only shoot a buck if it's a mature whitetail ( 3 1/2 years or older) otherwise, I'll gladly take a doe.  I enjoy the meat, so I'd rather have a doe than a buck for meat.  I do love chasing those trophies though!

Nothing wrong with trophy hunting!!! or shooting does for meat deer either!!!   :thumbsup:  

Just wanted to make that point!!!!! I think each of us in our own way are "selective" and there is nothing at all wrong with that. If each of us shoots what we choose,(i.e. trophy bucks or any buck - adult does or fawns - or "brown is down") then we as hunters will balance the deer herd by our own "selective" preferances. I think when man trys to skew the deer herd for "bigger and better" we are only asking for trouble down the road. Years ago it was a real feat to bag a HUGE buck. Now they are available on just about any game farm if you want to pay the price.On private land QDM can and does work.But what are the "long term" effects..... There was a study done that I think was published in "BuckMasters" magazine last year and I'll try to find the exact issue,I believe it was titled "Does QDM really work on public land" (or something like that) It was a study done on public land in the NorthEast(Penn.???)over a period of about 10 years. The first 3-4 years they saw an enormous jump in the amount of racked bucks harvested. After 5 years they noticed a sharp drop in the buck harvest but hunters were reporting seeing more and more spike bucks as the years went on. The possible theory was that the legal racked bucks were being shot and the spikes were doing most of the breeding. By the end of the 10 year study,the buck harvest was low and the herd totaly skewed. I just tend to believe that if we as hunters are allowed to harvest the deer that we choose,we can balance the herd just fine without "antler restrictions" or "earn a buck" rules. It's sad to say,but if N.Y. ever went to "earn a buck" rulings,I would be done hunting.(at least untill the law changed)

I like antlers on the wall also but I will most definitley shoot a doe.

Sorry Chuck, but I don't buy the Buckmasters story....not saying I don't believe you...I just don't buy the spike thing...no way!

They're trying to say that they're shooting so many of the older,wiser bucks that the young one's are breeding most of the does...no way, I don't buy that for a second!

Personally, I like the antler restrictions, as i really like hunting "racked" bucks...but then again, I enjoy doe hunting as well    ;)

I hear ya Curt!!!!! and I TOTALY understand what your saying!!!!! But.....

How do you explain this????? (and what keeps me questioning)  ;)

If you have even a 1 to 1 buck to doe ratio.....

ONLY (if that) half of your bucks are dominate bucks. If a good "intense" rut only lasts 10-12 days,and each buck stays with the doe for about 3 days breeding her mulitiple times over those 3 days.the each buck can only possibly breed 3-4 does over this "intense" rut period. If a good rut depends upon all of the does coming into heat during a short time,and the dominate bucks are busy with all they can handle during that time,SOMEBODY has to be taking care of the neglected ladies!!!!! Which is why I just can't except that "ONLY" the dominate Bucks do the breeding theory.

(C'mon Curt, Help me out Brother)   :confused:

I will shoot a doe only in the morning, due to the geographics of where I hunt.

Anyone else wanta chime in????

We can only shoot a buck in this part of Wyo. Regs state, " Antlered mule deer, or any whitetail". It's rare to see a whitie down here. So, it's buck only for me.

In Indiana, we can shoot 1 buck.  Every county has a doe limit. I have access to private land in 2 counties that have limits of 8 each.  So I can kill one buck and 16 does if I tag out.  My family eats 3-4 deer per year.  I guess the math means I have to shoot does  :)

What say's that every buck stays with that doe for 3days what if he gets run off by another buck after being worn out by the chase.And don't forget one night stands even we had them (maybe the doe nagged him or talked to much).

I think that some breeding probably does get done by some smaller bucks.  
However, I don't think the big boys will stand for much of it.  
I would say every hot doe that a mature buck sees with a lesser in-mature buck, gets moved out of the picture immediately.

To me it depends on where I am hunting and the population of deer and perceived buck/doe ratio. In Columbia County I just shot one of each with the longbow. I had a good solid 8 pt (maybe 100") moving into range and since he wasn't a trophy deer I passed him up and shot a spike that had one long spike and then a short unattached spike. I just thought letting the bigger buck go to breed the many does made better sense. The spike was shot for meat and because I didn't believe he would add much to the local gene pool. 10 minutes after shooting the spike I shot a mature doe because the area seems to have loads of them. In Indiana I would have done things a bit different and definately passed the spike due to the one buck rule. Lots of factors come into play for me to make a personal decision. Being out of meat, days left before the guns start blazing, possible future hunt opportunities, etc.  The bottom line for me is that it really just depends. I think most people make choices based on their personal reasons. That's the way it should be! If they choose to shoot a doe, fawn, spike, or Booner then good for them! It ain't a contest!

In California bucks are all we get, unless you win the "lottery" and get a tag for a special hunt, and even that is highly restrictive geographically.

I've never understood that logic or how it benefits the deer population.

My turn to "chime-in" Chuckster...  ;)

Deer with drag handles never turned me on. The method used in hunting ANY deer gets my heart rate up. You all know how I hunt. Stated it many times on this site. But let's get down to the brass tax...

You still havn't explained why (leave conservation jargon out of it) you won't kill a doe. If it's not in your heart to do so, well, I respect that. Same for me about tree stands and/or store bought blinds. Anyway, I belive an old doe is alot sharper than any buck. But that's just me.

Gonna state right here that you are a fine fellow and I enjoy your company. Seems to me you are skirting the issue that you opened up. So... Let's have it my friend... Cause I'm hitting the road for The Catskills in the morning to maybe drill a fat old doe and turn her into cutlets.

Thanks For Gettin' My Action Up!

... mike ...  :archer:  ...

Guys, it matters not if your buck to doe ratio is very equal and the smaller bucks do most the breading. The smaller bucks in your area are passing on the same genes as the mature deer they just are young with smaller antlers do to they haven't had time to reach their full potential. Genetics is genetics. Just because a doe is bred by a 1.5 year old 6 pointer doesn't mean the male offspring will carry a small 6 point rack all its life.

The key is your land can only carry so many deer. If you thin the does down to at least a 1 to 1 ratio you will have more and bigger bucks. With more bucks there is a greater chance many more will make it through another year and be larger.

I run trail cameras mostly all year around and I will get 3/1 bucks to doe photos. We keep the does to a minimum. Shoot the does as many as you can legally. I'm here to tell you if you have adequate food, water and bedding cover more bucks will call your place home when you do.

Well Mike..... (and everyone else)

I like horns on the wall!!!!!  ;)

Also,and probly the biggest reason, I have NO freezer space!!!!!

I live in a small,cluttered house with my family and we REALLY don't have any room for one. If a buck gives me a good shot and I get him,I still end up giving most of the meat away. Also, Being as I'm only hunting for bucks,does in heat are "Buck Bait" as far as I'm concerned. The best "Buck Lure" you could ever ask for!!!!!  :thumbsup:

All this QDM...buck to doe ratio...etc....here are my thoughts and I'll keep it quick and simple since I just came in from hunting....by the way...I missed a doe tonight...maybe 27 yds...shot looked good till she turned instead of just ducking....

I bowhunt CT...Jersey...and NY. I have 9 tags. I love eating venison, on good years I will donate 2 does to the Feed The Hungry Program. I'm out there bowhunting to fill my tags, not look pretty or be a "poser" type bowhunter. The loss of habitat has altered the deer herds in quite a few areas making it necessary to control the herds with additional doe tags.

Controlling the buck to doe ratio in the areas we hunt here in NY Chuck is almost non existant. Like Curt...I want to see the results from the PA reports. I have a hard time believing spikes are "ruling the world" in some areas.

I respect every bowhunters choice on what they want to kill. Some reach a stage of their bowhunting life where they settle for nothing but a trophy...or P&Y Buck. Others enjoy filling tags and dining on some fine venison during the winter months. Not shooting does because of the reasons you stated....not sure I agree.

Now...I joke around with Iron Mike Ciccone but he knows I respect the way he has chosen to bowhunt and the goals he sets for himself. If a bowhunter is comfortable with his methods then go for it. If limited freezer space is keeping you from shooting does...then tell Lisa to buy a large freezer for Xmas...LMFAO....

Sorry to ramble but I'm getting hungry...and the wife just called out dinner...Keep The Faith...

TJ, I makes me laugh the amount of people think that about the young deer breeding does.....it's like they really think that if a buck is bred by a forkhorn, he'll only have forkhorn forever bucks...rediculous!

It's all about the genes, like you said...it matters not how old the buck is when he breeds the doe.

Good stuff Joe!

I have only been huntin trad for 5-6 yrs.My saying is I dont hunt bucks or does I hunt 5-15 yd. shots.I love deer meat. I got to have deer meat.IN Maryland we have a ton of does.My farmer wants to see me wheeling out deer.they eat everything.I leave the bucks for the kids for gun season.dont get me wrong if I see the right deer Iam shootin him.I will take a doe over a scrub buck any day.It is not like we are over run with 150 class deer.So for me to base my season on trying to kill one is just unrealistic

Ok now, (Curt, I'm looking for your input here because I value your insight!!! You've hunted more places than I probly ever will,and I respect your experiance!!!) Talking Dominate bucks and "good genes".....

Just what is it that makes a dominate buck "dominate"?????

Is it "Big Antlers" or "Big Attitude"?????

Good genetics are the key in every good deer herd,but is it neccesarily the buck with the biggest horns who is the "Baddest Buck" in the woods??? Over the years I have seen alot of small racked bucks breeding does.Yes they very well could be dominate gene bucks that are not fully grown as well. But,couldn't an average size buck with a "never back down" attitude dominate the deer herd??? Over the years I have also seen a few BIG bucks give ground to a smaller buck,just because the smaller buck wouldn't back down when he shook his head.

Now I'm not saying that Big Bucks are wimps!!!!! Actualy quite the opposite is true,but the only way to get to be "king of the mountain" is to FIGHT your way to the top!!!!!

So,which is it..... Antlers or Attitude?????