I shot my first trad deer about a week ago, but wouldn't ya know I hit a rib and so long doe! how do you not hit ribs more often? they cover the whole vitals, so I guess it's just luck weather you do or not. please give your oppinion
also, here's a pic or rib structure
thanks
lm :confused: :help: (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://skinnymoose.com/tailsandtrails/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/deer-anatomy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://skinnymoose.com/tailsandtrails/%3Fm%3D200706&usg=__8dKWg2SO6mtin_qAhD77dcLSgjA=&h=532&w=650&sz=31&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=9ZfvUCUVl_ypLM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwhitetail%2Banatomy%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den)
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://skinnymoose.com/tailsandtrails/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/deer-anatomy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://skinnymoose.com/tailsandtrails/%3Fm%3D2007 06&usg=__8dKWg2SO6mtin_qAhD77dcLSgjA=&h=532&w=650&sz=31&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=9ZfvUCUVl_ypLM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwhitetail%2Banatomy%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://skinnymoose.com/tailsandtrails/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/deer-anatomy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://skinnymoose.com/tailsandtrails/%3Fm%3D200706&usg=__8dKWg2SO6mtin_qAhD77dcLSgjA=&h=532&w=650&sz=31&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=9ZfvUCUVl_ypLM:&tbnh=112&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwhitetail%2Banatomy%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den)
dang picture wont post!!
http://skinnymoose.com/tailsandtrails/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/deer-anatomy.jpg
cant get picture to post, so if you want just click a link
i havent shot any animle with trad gear yet but if hitting a rib stops penatration or causes a glancen arrow i think there is someting very wrong arrows should almost always go thru ribs if i learn this to be a big problem im putting the trad gear away
Not to hard to bust thru a whitetails rib. What setup are you shooting? bow and poundage at what draw length/arrow weight/broadhead.
Luke,
I think most of us know where the rib cage is on a whitetail.
If you hit a rib and didn't get any penetration- you didn't cripple anything.
Deer run through thick forests at night and are "stuck" all the time- sticks, saplings, trees macheted for survey markers, fenceposts- any number of objects are found inside deer- completely encased in cartilidge and the animal is none the worse for wear.
I've killed deer with broadhead arrows in them that way- healthy and with a thick layer of fat.
Your question gives away that you may lack experience. If you hit ribs and bounced off, you need to work on your setup. light arrows matched to a lightweight draw bow are a disaster in the making.
I'd be happy to help you analyze your setup through PM's.
My arrows are close to 600 grains shooting close to 60# and i have blown through both shoulders blades on hogs before, ribs dont even slow the arrow down. If your arrows are stopping because they hit a rib somthing is wrong.
Take Ray up on his offer and PM him he will help you out.
I agree with the prior posts. It sounds to me like you are shooting really light arrows. ANy arrow from 500 grains on up should blast right thru a deers ribs. It will cut ribs on both sides of the animal and usually keep going if you shooting over 50lbs. Post you set up and tell us what angle the shot was from and what range.
Didn't read any of the replies...
Deer Ribs are pixi sticks(chump change) for normal hunting weight bows and arrows....2,3, and 4 blades should be no problem at all. Something is amiss.
Here's a rib I cut clean in two from a 64# longbow and a 580 grain arrow. 260 pound GA Ten pointer, and a Sasquatch wide head. I heard the rib snap like a stick.
I've busted deer ribs for years....and NEVER had one stop a arrow...or cause a none pass through even if I busted one going in or going in an coming out.
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/ten1.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/ten2.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/ten3.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/ten22.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/ten23.jpg)
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/haul1.jpg)
AGAIN....if your set up is not getting through a deer rib...something is wrong!
I agree And I must say wow that sure is one heck of a buck! If ya need a hunting partner let me know. :pray: :pray: :pray:
I shot my first three trad deer with a 45lb recurve and sub 500grn arrows and two shots were complete pass thru's with broken ribs on both sides. Somethin ain't right. Take the advise of the guys one here and I gurantee that won't happen again.
Either to light an arrow or bad arrow flight with broadhead.
Bad arrow flight will cause bad penitration. With a tuned bow and the right arrow even a moose should not stop your arrow. Steep angled broadheads at odd shooting angle may be an issue as well.
Ray, I do speak from a lack of experience, I was shooting easton carbons, but they were super light. I have changed my setup to heavier eastons and broadheads. I shoot a 45# longbow at 25 in draw, But I get about 40# at my draw. youre right, that deer will likely heal, but I'm just curios how many deer are wounded/not retrieved for every kill? is it really just luck if you hit a rib or not (minus heart shot)?
thanks for the advice
my arrows were about 340 gr with 100 gr head.
I guess the heavy arrow concept is accurate, and I am converting
Your set up is too light.....yes, you will need LUCK, but you DON'T have to have luck to get through a deers ribs. :scared:
Not only can you up your arrow weight, but with a little work you can up your bow weight....and I bet you can even lengthen your draw length by an inch minimum....and possibly as high as 2 and a half. Might find out how on the Shooter's Forum. :campfire:
You're probably pulling around 38# @25". That's putting about the same amount of energy into the arrow as a 25# @28" bow. Coupled with the light arrows... Terry described it right: rolling the dice.
I broke 2 ribs and it went out though the liver, I am shooting a 58# Longbow and a 735 gr arrow dynamics arrow. Terry is right, deer ribs are easily broken.
Nice buck Terry!
You can't get to the heart/lungs without going thru the ribs. Just figure that you're gonna hit one one plan accordingly.
Luke,
Hitting or missing a rib bone on a whitetail should be of no concern whatsoever. Expect to hit them, plan to hit them, it's gonna happen almost every time. Even at 40# a well tuned arrow/broadhead combination should barely even slow down when penetrating a whitetail rib. There must be something else goin on. What was the total arrow weight (including the BH) of the shaft that bounced off the deer?
Ron
Shoot a 450+ grain arrow and a two blade broad head if you want to shoot through critters with that bow routinely.
Just shot a mature Doe this morning with my 51# Schafer Silvertip and passed clean through hitting and breaking ribs on both sides. The deer was 17 yards away and I used a 512 total grain spruce wood arrow with a large Zwickee Delta head. If you are hitting ribs and not getting penetration, you have a serious issue with your setup. First off your arrows are probably way too light especially if you are only shooting 40#. Many here will tell you that 40# is fine for whitetails, but in my opinion that isn't enough weight for an ethical kill every time therefore I would try to go heavier. Also, shoot heavy arrows with your light setup.
Props to Longhunter95 for asking. We are all on a journey and LH95 is now a few steps farther along than he was.
I think the "bust a rib" question has been answered above, so my advice may be pointless.
I say, work to step up draw-weight until you can shoot a 45-50# bow at 25" draw. There have been plenty of deer taken w/ 45# and the right arrow set-up.
Once again Longhunter95 - Thanks for asking. I wonder about optimal arrow weight and spine and my head starts to hurt...
I shot a buck once(mule deer)and hit it waaaay back,(long story) in fact right in the hip.
After trailing the buck and getting a second arrow in the chest, I examined the first shot, which absolutly shattered the socket joint. If you have seen the hip joint on a deer it is by far a heavier bone than a rib, and I got almost full arrow penetration after destroying the hip bone.
I was shooting a 53# longbow with GT 3555 100 grain brass inserts and a 150 grain Zephyr Scirocco 2 blade.
I agree it might be bad arrow flight, angled shot, low arrow weight, etc or a combo of a few things.
I would add, make sure you are using cut on contact broadheads. With that light draw, that would be a must, preferably a two blade. It also has to be scary sharp. Deer ribs don't amount to anything unless you are hitting them up near the spine. Add a dull broadhead to a light arrow, short power stroke, and low poundage and it may have bounced off the hide.
Pick any quality two blade (there are tons of them: Magnus, Zwickey, etc.), make it sharp, get the total weight up to 450-500 grains, keep the weight forward as much as possible (high front of center), and you should be fine. Working up in draw and/or draw length wouldn't hurt a thing either.
There are lots of people who will help you out here. You came to the right place.
Hey Luke, call me anytime you want to chat about this. 252 636 7665. I want to get you on the right track.
luke and his twin brother are maybe 15 now? Ive never been around kids as nice and gungho as they are.
Luke, call me. Don
shot a 320 lb black bear hitting using 475 grain XX75 arrows and 125 grain Steel Force Sabertooth broadheads from a 41 lb recurve. Blew through ribs on one side with a big exit wound on the other side.
check your arrow flight. as for wounded/lost versus killed the ratio should be very very small. Stay in your effective range, be it 12 or 25 yards, take only broadside shots, use super sharp broadheads. watch the hit, WAIT two hours then track. If you lose bloodtrail then DO a grid search with your compass and GPS to find the deer. look 300 yards in grid and you're guaranteed to find him.
heavy will change your bowhunting life !!
I have seen one 244 dressed killed with a 50lb. @ 26". The first arrow went through one rib and cracked a rib on the other side. the second arrow hit 4 inches higher as the deer was going down and skipped off and over the buck. I have also seen a big fellow not be able to get his bow back more than 19 inches when he was shooting at a small buck, his arrow flew terrible and he only got a couple inches of penetration, no deer. It is possible to gain draw length so long as it doesn't totally ruin your alignments and thus your accuracy, but do not get yourself over bowed. I am not sure about getting carried away with too heavy of an arrow out of a lighter pull bow with a short draw is the cure all in this situation either. I have seen lots of deer get taken with under forty pound recurves with clean flying 460 grain arrows without one loss, so I never tell someone to bust their chops and their bank accounts to go a bit heavier. In this case we may be dealing with a young man that has abilities that can get the job done. Perhaps a raise in the arrow weight and with good arrow flight coupled with a good two blade head and a stronger shot next time will do the trick. He has proven that he has the stuff to get the shot, that is a good start.
Luke, I sent you a message with some tips.
Luke
I talked with your dad on this subject about your setup. Come by the shop. This problem is an easy fix good buddy!
QuoteOriginally posted by John Dill:
Luke
I talked with your dad on this subject about your setup. Come by the shop. This problem is an easy fix good buddy!
:bigsmyl:
One factor not mentioned is that the blade should be super sharp - razor sharp. And the tip a true point. If your broadhead is dull, this could also happen I would guess.
Are you using a 3 blade or 2 blade broadhead? There are broadheads made for compound bows with a punch point before the blades that really don't work very well on trad gear. What kind of broadhead are you using and is it super sharp. Like the above, I have not had the experience of an arrow "bouncing off" a deer because of the ribcage. If you hit the deer on the top/back it could glance off the deer and take off. Not the ribs, however.
sam
Luke it can be done and you are definitely on the right track. My wife shot her first deer this year with a 35@28 Bear Recurve and she is drawing 25" or so. She is shooting 1816 eastons and Wensel woodsman heads. She hit the deer in the spine and it went right down but her second shot passed right through. With the right arrows you will get good penetration for sure. I am thinking you may have hit the shoulder blade and not a rib - possibly even the leg bone. Use the resources available here, these folks will not let you down.
Good luck - Bob Urban