Trad Gang

I was wondering if anyone has used the diamond stones and the standard stones that come with the kit.  What are the standard stones made from.  Which do you like better.  I know you can purchase both types of stones, just wondering if the diamond stones work that much better.

Man, if I could get a knife any sharper by using the diamond stones, I would be afraid to even look at my knives!

I believe the diamond stones are a bit more aggressive at removing metal, but I think it's easier to get a fine razor-sharp edge with the Arkansas stones.

I just ordered one from KME Thursday. Talked with Ron for about 20 minutes in the morning before placing order.
I was asking about sharpening hunting knives, kitchen knives, and broadheads. He actually recommended I use the kit with the stones, and not the diamond kit.
I liked that suggestion because it saved me some money! But I just spent it anyway, cause I went ahead and purchased a broadhead sharpener too! Even though he said I really didn't need it if I was buying the knife sharpener. Guess I just like new toys!   :thumbsup:  
Don't believe in having idle tools lying around!

I modified my stone holder to hold my DMT mini diamond stone hones. Worked great and simple to do.

I don't have the KME knife jig...so I don't know exactly what type of 'standard' stone come with it or what type of diamond stones come with it.

However, I've spent some time on Arkansas-style stones, waterstones, and diamond stones.

Diamonds will work a little bit faster if everything else is equal.  Diamond stones may last longer (a lot of variables)...they WON'T last forever like they (not Ron, but the diamond people) advertise.  You can get edges of equal quality using any type of stone.  Process and technique may change if you're real real picky about your edge but the finish products can be of equal quality.

If you're not using the stones to remove A LOT of material on some really hard steels (Broadheads tend to be rather soft compared to knives) my personal opinion is you gain nothing from the diamond stones EXCEPT that they stay perfectly flat. I have them for that reason alone for my straight razors and waterstones. I'd by the standard stones without hesitation.

Standard. Ron's a class act!

How long should it take to Sharpen a STOS broadhead with the Arkansas stone?

I've been at it for an hour and the stinking thing seems duller than when it came out of the package.

Other than sharpening a pencil the only ones I've been able to get an edge on are Magnus. Thought I'd try the STOS this year.

Pronghorn, if I HAD to make a bet on what is happening I'd say you've spent a good bit of that time on a stone that is not the coarsest.


Biggest mistake I see my buddies doing is thinking that the real time-killer is the finer stones.  Not true.  90% of my time is spent on the coarser stones.

Maybe Ron or someone who has a KME and STOS heads can chime in.  I'd take a sharpie or a marks-a-lot and blacken the whole edge.  Then sit down with the coarsest stone.  Grind until you've got shiny metal all the way to the edge.  Then keep grinding until the head will shave hair (albiet roughly).  THEN you can go to the medium stone. Then to the finest stones.


I might have just wastes both our times, but if that does help you and someone else reading this thread it was well worth it.


Making something freaky sharp is on of life's simple pleasures for me.

Thank you for the tips.
I colored the edge and filed til it was all shiny but couldn't get it to shave hair.

Sometimes it seems I'd get them 'sharp' but each finer stone would make them less sharp.

I gave up for the night. I'll probably just ship them up to Ron for him to sharpen.

Another reason to try knapping.

Hmmm....sent a short PM so we don't hijack the thread too badly.

Sounds to me like you're putting too much downward pressure on the stones. Just glide the stone across the head - NO downward pressure other than the weight of the stone and carrier. And once they start getting sharp, flip the head after each stroke.

i LOVE the kme!  i went with diamonds only 'cause it uses water for lube and not oil.  those diamonds cut FAST!  

for knives and broadheads the kme is THE way to go, forget all those other sharpening devices, they pale in comparison to the kme.  

i use the kme knife model for both knives and twin/four blade broadheads, and not only a time saver but the resulting blades are PERFECTLY razor sharp.

We sell the KME and I use mine all the time.  I like the stones over the diamond for most jobs.  I did get an extra course diamond from Ron for those heads I messed up with a file.

Mike

I love my KME. After using a file to get the angle on my Grizzlies I get them very sharp with kme. KME knife sharpener insures that you get a consistent angled bevel through out your edge, which is very important. Very had to do by hand, in my opinon.

Gilbert

I use the diamond to hog off metal when setting the first angle.  After that, its stones.  All the info above is good.

As Ron has said, most errors are (1) going through the stones too fast, and (2) too much pressure.

The STOS are very easy to sharpen once you get the angle correct.  Eclipse - that is another story, and the knife sharpener is a must with the curvature, and the laminated tip.  Been through lots of coaching sessions with Ron on these.

Great systems!  Great guy!

BobW

I just got the KME system, and have a question about oil and water.  Unless I am misreading things, they recommend using the stones with the oil that is included with the stone.  I guess that means putting a few drops of oil on the stone and rubbing it around before sharpening with it?  Then they recommend washing the stones off with soap and water, to clean the metal shavings off the stone, I guess?  How does that work, using oil for cutting and soap and water for cleaning?  I thought you used oil to clean an oil stone, and soap and water to clean a water stone.  Is this incorrect?

KME = Top shelf (products and service)

McDave:

Actually, Ron suggests using fluids like Gunk's Liquid Wrench as a lubricating medium when sharpening, and cleaning stones with brake cleaner.  I have been using these for two years now with excellent results.

BobW

I was told during a knife sharpening seminar to use kerosene on your stones. It will not allow the stone to get dirty. It suspends the metal pieces and stuff and wipes off when you are done. Seems to work good.

Bob, next time you need a can, try carb cleaner instead of brake cleaner. I use it on just about anything...it's much less harsh than brake cleaner and still works just as well.

JC,

will try the next time.

BobW

Won't melt plastic like brake cleaner will...don't ask me how I figured that out    :rolleyes:

ouch  

Thanks folks.  Good info here.  I'll probably get the standard and then add the diamond stones later.

Sorry for the delay everyone...   :banghead:  

Answer to question 1: Diamond stones vs. standard (ceramic/Arkansas).

Diamonds are very aggressive and will take a blade from very dull to very sharp quickly. They're great for speed sharpening and for blades made from very hard steels. Diamonds aren't even in the same league with the standard stones when it comes to polishing to a true surgical edge though.

Lots of good advice posted but Soilarch and BobW pretty much nailed it... Whenever I coach someone having trouble sharpening a knife or BH, the problem is almost invariably one of two things: Either progressing through the grits too quickly or pushing too hard on the sharpener or stone.

Progressing through the grits too quickly: Coarse and x-coarse stones are our friends!!! They'll save a lot of sweat, time, and cussin. It's at the coarsest stage of sharpening that the cutting edge is actually formed. Following up with progressively finer grit stones will only polish the edge we created with the coarse stone in the beginning. If we got the edge nice and sharp on the coarse stone, then the finer grits will quickly refine and polish that edge to hair plowing sharp...If we left the coarsest stone prematurely, before bringing the bevels to a complete and true intersection, then the finer stones will polish the bevels beautifully but, they won't get the blade any sharper. In other words, don't leave your coarsest stone till the blade is very sharp... and I mean very sharp. It will be a coarse feeling sharp but sharp enough that you sure wouldn't want to run your finger down the blade.

Pushing too hard on the stone or pushing too hard on the BH sharpener: Since we're grinding steel on some level when sharpening, human nature and logic suggests that if we push harder, we'll speed things up a bit... Nope... doesn't work like that. Pushing down harder on the stone or sharpener will cause the blade to flex and once the blade flexes, the consistent angle goes out the window. With light pressure the stones will cut very efficiently and the angle will remain precise at all times... and we all know that holding a consistent angle is the most important aspect of sharpening anything.

Did I miss anybody? Thanks,

Ron

Got my kme knife sharpener in the mail yesterday. Immediately commenced to sharpening stuff. Was able to get both a pocket knife and a zwickey 2 blade sharp. Not shaving sharp, but sharp. Came back and read thru this thread but still no dice. Think I'll have to give Ron a call this afternoon. Can he work his magic over the phone without me having the sharpener in front of me?

Yes, Ron can help, even over the phone. I suspect it's a simple fix, like not staying on the course stone quite long enough before progressing on to the finer stones. Lin

he will likely want you to have your sharpener in hand as he talks you through it.

15 minutes on the phone with Ron and I now have no hair on my legs....   :p  Geeze, that didn't sound right!

Thanks Ron! Super product and super service!  :bigsmyl:    :bigsmyl:

Alright you guys talked me into it.
I just sent for  the knife sharpner kit with stones.
I think I will keep the hair on my legs but the dog better look out.

John

I've tried many different sharpeners with mediocre success over the years.  Ron's system sounds down right deadly.  I need to get me one of these things.  I'm sure it will be money well spent.

Excellent product!

Just got a knife sharpener in the mail from Ron.  First, what a class act that man is!  Second, this system is unreal.  The coarse stone will establish a bevel very quick and then it literally takes just seconds to put a hair-poppin', scary edge on the blade.  If you are looking for excellent, made in the USA product from a rock solid person, order a KME!

Not only is Ron available but he's one of us!  If you talk to him, the conversation shifts from sharpening to archery to hunting to broadheads etc.

You don't want to push too hard with the coarse diamond. A light touch works and the diamonds will last longer. And don't go to a finer grit till it shaves with the coarse diamond.

I use violin strokes along the whole bevel till you see alternating bands of light and dark all across the bevel, than long sweeping strokes from the tip of the knife into the hilt. Then flip and stroke, flip and stroke. And then you get a hair popping sharp edge.