I'd like to thank Buff for allowing us to use part of one of his latest videos to show this....and Tom Mussatto for dissecting it and adding the graphics.
A little set up for the clip...
I remember the 1st 3 shots I took at TX Bucks years ago and I 'thought' I aimed low enough and shot over them all. Since then I've forced myself to aim under them.
Last year at Solana Ranch we had 17 hunters and I told them all where I aim before the hunt started and boy did they listened. The 17 of us TradGangers broke the kill record set by the ranch in 3 days that was previously set by 23 compounders in 4 days. We also brought in 2 more bucks and 3 more does the last day...I think it was 3 more does, not sure, but the guides were sure impressed with out results and recovery rate on day 3.
Anyway....I aim UNDER the deer just like in this video but about 3 inches further back(to the right of the red square) as they can wheel away farther and I like to make sure I stay clear of the shoulder and the shoulder is very hard to penetrate while in motion as it is 'rolling with the punch' and robs your set up of energy. And, even if you do you can make a not as lethal hit as you would like and exit the front of the chest making for a LONG recovery if at all. However, you can still blow though the chest cavity all day long if they are moving. And I like big heads since this will be the case, and I want all the blood I can get on the ground on the TX terrain.
Yes, on rare instances, very rare, they wont move, and no harm is done. And some times they squat and 'scoot' forward and don't wheel, but you still got em cause they squat right into the arrow.
It's hard to make your self shoot under them, but since I started, I've killed an 8 point and two 10s in the last 3 years in a row, along with several does with only one doe not dropping.
I remember Curt Cabrera saying "There was a moment of instant panic just after I released...What have I done?!?!?!, ....but that freak buck dropped right in there at the last split second".
So, maybe this will help those that are TX bound this year....and as you can see from the deer's angle at impact, the exit would will be HIGHER than the entrance...another common occurrence on TX Deer.
Click Here for Clip (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/tg/1-deerdrop.wmv)
Thats an impressive amount of movement!
Very interesting Terry, I'm off to my friends ranch in the hill country next month. I will be moving there and help with the hunts we'll be offering. This information will help our hunters greatly. Thank you to all involved for taking the time to make this clip.
Desertdude ...soon to be TexasDude
Great video Terry. I saw the original but it's even more impressive with the two dots to reference what "could" have happened.
There is one of the Monster Buck videos from years ago that shows about the same thing. I think it was the kinda tall goofy guy who shot at a TX whitetail around 20 yards away with a smokin' fast compound and the deer was able to duck the arrow completely. Them TX deer sure are wired for speed!
First off, Nice Bear Terry..
Terry does make a great point on shooting at them Texas deer low. Mostly from ground blinds, but will also help with tree stand hunters too.
Holy Moly!! That is truly amazing!
Thanks for sharing Terry, and to Buff for helping.
LOL! It's amazing how much advice I've received over the years from out-of-state bowhunters on how to shoot deer to keep them from ducking. There is but one way that I've found to shoot them with trad bows. Shoot very, very low at a relaxed deer at very close ranges. I shot a doe 4 years ago at 18 yards. I hit her in the opposite side that I was looking at when I released the arrow. She'd spun all the way around by the time the arrow got there. I don't shoot slow bows. I've shot three Texas Impala(whitetail) this year doing exactly what Buff does! CK
the BIG nine point I missed opening morning... It had a rubbed place on it's side right over the heart. I drew and let down 3 times because I kept picking that spot to aim at ( I was excited). 4th time I lost control and took the shot. Dinged the buck across the top of the back. he did a duck and roll
http://www.buffsblackwidow.com/videos/flatrock12point.wmv
Why are TX deer more jumpy?
No arguement here, just curious.
Is this only true of Texas deer?
I haven't been seeing this up here in Ohio if they are relaxed. I guess relaxed is the key on that one? Oldskool did miss one the other day for the exact reason in the clip, but that doe was spooked before he shot at her.
Cool video and definitely something to remember on jumpy deer!
-Charlie
Thanks Terry...I will tell you that I did not aim at the red box when I shot at a small buck opening weekend(just couldn't get myself to do it).
Sure enough...he droped and my arrow did not event touch him as he ran off laughing. :banghead:
The best part is that he was only 12yards from me as I sat in a ground blind... :eek:
I remember thinking "he is not that fast"....
I stated this in another post earlier but is on topic for this tread so hope you don't mind if I tell it again.
I shot at a very nice 10 pointer two years ago at about 12 yards. I was standing in a cedar tree about 4' off the ground. On release the deer wheeled slightly and rolled heavely away from me as if going to fall over. Because of his reaction the arrow struck the deer about 2" above centerline, entered just under the skin, ricocheted up the ribcage and out the top of the deer's back. Just as if he had gotten a big splinter and none the less for wear.
I know of another story very similar to the one shared by Littlefeather.
Louis
Terry, cool video, how far was the shot? Do you do this in other places or is do you do this only in Texas?
I think this trait is real common with Texas deer. Not sure where else you might encounter it but it sure helps to have an understanding of the "attitude" of the deer in any area you intend to hunt.
I killed a nice fat doe down in Texas last winter that didn't "duck and roll". Of course she was standing behind the one I was shooting at who let her friend take one for the gipper.
I sometimes wonder if it is the sound of the bow or the sight of the arrow that triggers this response. Guess I'll never know for sure.
I don't know how far that shot was as it was Buff's Buck. I aim like that from 15 to 20 yards...and at the baseline of them if they are inside 15 yards.
I think a lot of places in TX this is the typical response....but have heard of other places in TX where they aren't so skiddish. Best to ask the locals or outfitter about the attitudes of the deer in the area you are planning to hunt 1st I would suggest.
Yes, all the deer I have killed in TX since aiming low were not 'on alert' and were relaxed. They had no idea I was there. I do not aim at them low like that here in GA if they are relaxed and have no idea I'm there. But if they are alert, I do aim like that.
Charlie....I really think its the bow that starts the movement...or any other 'odd' noise that can spook them. Remember the 2 and a half year old 10 point I was passing on that same night I killed mine? He bolted when a cough drop fell out of my pocket and onto the chair chair I was sitting in and I was 25 feet up in that tree. I think you can also find out by running a test the 1st doe by just pulling your string back 3 inches and letting go....I bet she will bolt. And will likely come back.
it seems the further west you go in Texas the quicker they are. I have shot deer in Oklahoma that stood there and took it. The deer where I live,East Texas are some where in the middle. Out West, I aim completely off the deer. If I aim at the elbow I usually get a spline shot. The deer in the video is about 18 yards.
Gotta agree with ya Buff on the regional differences across the state. I also believe it could be a trait more shared by certain species of deer. Species?
I'm no biologist but I can clearly see two different types of deer in the local areas I hunt around home. It's been rumored that many deer around these parts were imported for breeding stock(high fence deer farms). Many have been intentionally released while others have escaped. I also think there are simply areas where deer species over-lap. Hill country deer are certainly a different physical construction from south Texas deer. West Texas deer look and act quite different than both formentioned species. I'm pretty sure that the central Texas Hill country deer are the fastest due to their smaller physical construction. All this said, I still haven't found one that won't completely duck an arrow at 10-15 yards. When I aim at a deer around here I'm aiming at daylight below the vidals.
I have found that you'll have less likelihood of ducking as much if I wait to shoot till the offside leg is forward. This is an akward position for a deer to be in to duck down to roll away. Just my thoughts. CK
Cool stuff!
Curtis very interesting observation on the off leg placement. Most of us concentrate so much on the near leg....
Thinking about it though, it makes sence as I believe as well that it would be awkward for them....
My 2 hill country deer from back in January both dropped. But one more that the other as the situation was different.
First was my "Funky Buck". That's the one that I described the "mental panic" just after releasing the arrow. He was dead broadside at 22yds, at "normal jumpiness". In other words not overly suspicious of what might be around.
I drew and concentrated about three inches below and just behind his front nearside leg....first time I'd ever aimed to "miss" at an animal...hence the "mental panic" after release.
Half way there, it was a miss low....but then they came together and the arrow took him just behind the near leg about 3 inches above the body line right in the "pocket"....
It came out here on the off side. Actually a couple inches higher than the entrance because of the attempted "roll away....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Guru39/Solana%20II/Solana09091.jpg)
The last morning of the hunt, I had a bunch of deer around me, but this time the very high winds had them as jumpy as I'd ever seen. I mean like every little sound or movement had them running, but then they'd come back.
Finally had a doe standing still at about 19yds....but this time because of the situation, I concentrated on a rock just behind her near leg, but at knee level.....
Dropped on the spot from a spine hit and that was aiming at knee level!
Beautiful animal! Congrats!
Remember the doe I shot that had my broadhead in her skull from the year before?
(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/ck/Doeskulloutside.jpg)
She was broadside when I shot but dropped and rolled away. Poor gal took it through the jaw hinge, ear canal and stopped just short of exit through the sinus cavity. I had no idea it was her the next year when I shot her broadside at a few yards. I've missed shots at around 6-7 tards due to the ducking. Seems impossible till you witness the heart crushing event unfold. They're no doubt a very worthy opponent. CK
I remember it well buddy....good stuff!
Had a nice 7 pt ( Western count) do that to me a few years back when I still used a wheel bow. 25 yard shot and he jumped the string..the arrow was about 3 inches over him.
About 20 or so years ago while hunting a patch of public land around one of the lakes here at home I was positioned about 12 feet high in a Mesquite tree and shot at a buck at about 15 yards. The deer threw its legs outward ( front legs out and forward and rear legs out and backward ) and did a belly flop on the ground as my arrow flew over its back and stuck in the dirt on his off side. Dust even blew out from under him as if you had dropped a powder puff on the floor. I have told this story before to other hunters and they looked at me as if I was crazy. I also saw a very nice buck crawling on its belly, with it's head down hugging the ground, down a cotton row in the middle of a cotton field in an attempt to keep from being seen. I would have never believed it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes.
Louis
Its true It works. They are fast. I aimed several inches under mine and hit him perfect.
Thanks for the added insight Curtis. That may be very helpful.
Terry,
Yep I remember when you came out and we went after some does and spikes at Bruce's place. I kept telling you that below the hairline was the place too look and when we both got chances .. well we both looked in the pocket and we both airmailed the deer.
This years doe did it too me but she added a forward move too it. Arrow was in the pocket up to about 5 ft from the deer. She dropped, spun and lurched. Hit her ahead of the hip and exited the back rib on the other side. Exit hole was 3 inches above the entrance.
Mike
Yep...I remember well Mike....that deer was got my wheels trurning...but it too me another year to actually acept and shoot under them. :knothead:
Also nice to see some TX guys weight in and add their take. :campfire:
OK but why do they act so much more skittish. The videos I have seen of pigs and deer at feeders in TX are more like watching African animals. I can understand why the Africans act tha way because of the preponderance of predators it but that's not the case in TX, as far as I know. Makes me thankful for relatively sluggish Midwestern deer.
John, maybe because there are so many more coyotes and bobcats down there.
Don't know John...can't answer that. The place I hunt is also not 'pressured' or 'over hunted' as they only offer one 4 day hunt a month.
You know I always thought it was do to the feeders. The feeder goes off twice a day and always scares the crap out of me. I've seen deer under them when they go off and it startles them too.
But, I hunt a place that doesn't have feeders and hasn't had for years. We hunt travel routes and acorn patches. They still duck and spin.
Mike
Yep....the 8 point I killed on my Bday in 2006 and the 10 I killed last year were not over a feeder....but they ran the script.
I agree again. It has nothing to do with feeders although it would make sense if it did. They're just freaky wired for speed. They've got alot of predators here(human and animal). I watch their muscles rippling below the skin in preparation for a speedy exit even when they're just feeding along. They're certainly not the same deer as those in the Mid-West or those I've hunted in Alabama. I wish I knew what had them in a constant state of apprehension. CK