A few years from now (when I've got the cash to pay for it), I'm ordering a true hornbow :readit:
Short bow would be faster pound for pound than a longer bow. It would be harder to pull to draw lenght pound for pound and would be more sensitive to finger pinch and form errors. Short bow would be good in tight quarters like a ground blind.
I never thought the length of a bow was a factor walking through the woods.
I shoot mostly 60" but can shoot 58" but that is my limit for 28" draw.
I LIKE'M LONG 66 OR 68" SMOOOOOOOOTH
true hornbows are in a class by themselves. having shot more than a few, they are (for me) difficult little beasties best relegated to horse archers.
short versus long - imo, everything depends on your true draw length, the bow's design, and the intended use of the bow (ie - hunting, where shorter is generally easier to use for tree stands and in dense cover).
most really short bows have deep riser deflex brace heights, which helps or may eliminate bow hand finger pinch.
short limbed bows - have a definite maneuverability advantage over longer limbed bows. there may be finger pinch issues. these bows *may* be a tad faster and more efficient ... they may also feel less 'release stable' than a longer limbed bow. must be properly designed for longer draw lengths or stacking is inevitable!
long limbed bows - have less maneuverability than shorter limbed bows. finger pinch is lessened. these bows *may* be a tad slower and less efficient ... they're generally more 'release stable' and smoother on the draw than shorter limbed bows.
LOTS depends on the bow design ... and what/where it'll be used.
There are many styles and shapes of horn bows. Different cultures had(or have) different designs and lengths. The length of the syiah(sp) as well as the length of the working limb and handle will make a difference. My suggestion is to locate and shoot as many different horn bows as you can to see which one works best for you.
Are you planning to use a thumb ring or shoot it as you do other bows?
Shorter bows are easily more sensitive IMO thus harder to consistently control. Short is relative to each shooter although 68" is my shortest for my 31" draw. Also my preference for heavier LB's only.
Thank you for the great responses so far :notworthy:
Rob, very helpful list there. I read in TTBB 1 that a longer bow would generally be faster than a shorter bow of equal draw weight and draw length. I guess that's not entirely true then...
Pat, I prefer a Mongolian design with larger siyahs. I plan to get a reverse riser (as on many Asiatic style composites), and mainly focus on thumb shooting. I don't have a hunting license yet, but I definetely plan to use it for hunting.
I have only shot a few horn bows and they were short; less than 50". I've shot with and without a thumb ring. Being as short and as highly strung(figuratively speaking) as horn bows are they can be difficult to shoot effectively. You will have to practice with it as you do with Trad bows, just to get used to the differences. When I shoot with a thumb ring(not much so far) my shots are generally way right(right handed shooting) and that alone takes time for my brain to work out.
Fatboy, note Rob short "limbed" bows and long "limbed" bows. Not the same thing as short and long BOWS. A bow can be long but have relatively short limbs or it can be short with a tiny riser and have relatively long limbs. Shorter 'limbs' tend to be faster given the same design.
Then again, one bowyers limbs that are longer than another bowyers limbs may be the faster limbs due differences in tapers, profile etc.
That's why everyone always answers questions like this with the standard "get out and shoot as many different kinds as you can and see what you like" answer.
Practising thumb shooting already, and I agree that it takes some finesse not to hit far right. Getting a hang of it though.
In a (hopefully) not to distant future, I will recieve a Saluki Genghis measuring 64", the same as my "short" Tomahawk longbow. It's a good length, but still I'd like a short hornbow.
Lukas Novotny of Saluki, writes the following on his website: "The reason you experience almost none or minor finger pinch with these bows is because of the limb design and the way the string travels in relation to bow limbs bending during the draw.", and as far as my logic goes, less finger pinch is usually due to string angle, and if the string angle ain't too excessive, it won't stack as much. Or am I wandering in the dark?
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for pointin' that out Dave.
Will be hard for me to test drive a whole lot of bows though, as I'm not a member of any club, and don't know anybody else who's into archery, unfortunately.
Fatboy, Check out Huntworthyproductions. James Parker is a friend of mine(and a TG sponsor)and he makes some incredible horn bows and all natural "horse" bows, as well as glass bows. He and Lucas worked together for a while, in Ohio and in NC.
Also, James is an incredible flint knapper. His Danish daggers are very impressive as is all of what James makes.
I shoot a Supermag 48-
Little bit of finger pinch-
Have to concentrate on the shot-but am shooting a weight that I can hold back for a short time.
25 yds accuracy starts to taper off, but it still hits hard with the grain weight Im shooting.
Very compfortable to shoot in a tree, I can shoot it from a kneel or from 1 knee about as good as I can standing.
Can shoot it well from the 3 wheeler.
Stablilzer helps.
I am moving up in weight, and to a longer bow, but have been practicing since I got it, and will use this bow on the stand.
God bless,
Farmer
Wow, definetely some impressive flint knapping. He and Lukas worked together making bows?
Yes until their egos got in the way. d;^)
James is very talented. He hand made all of what Utzi(the Alps Iceman) was found with from the grass rain coat to the stone knife and bronze ax. James studied under Callihan and some Danish masters I believe.
Egos, eh... a killer of good teamwork.
design, design, design.....
As started before by me in posts: my 32"+ draw is handled by bows ranging in size from 56" to 68". Each has its advantages and disadvantages. You have to decide for yourself what qualities are most important. Even with those selected, you need to shoot the bow to see if it is really like the "hype" for you. Some good information here, but in all honesty, you have to see what works for you.
BobW
As far as speed goes think about the longer limbs and shorter limbs drawn to the same point (maybe draw them on paper superimposed on each other to visualize). When released the shorter limbs have less arc to travel and return to undrawn profile quicker generating a tad more string speed poundage being equal. I'm not a physicist but a little sketch shows what's happening.
Think I could draw 32" with a 48" bow? :goldtooth:
Well actually lab testing shows that the longer limbs are generally faster then the shorter limbs.
It's more about physics then you think. I was talking with Blacky in Germany yesterday about this very thing.
Fatboy you might draw a 48" bow 32" but you won't get anyone to stand around you when you do it. LOL
Mike
LOL, probably not!
So longer limbs ARE generally faster? Hmm, aha... interesting. Physics really like to trick us.
my cousin liked yelling "RUN" when I drew my 56" Shrew Classic Hunter past 32"... :scared:
mike, you got info/data on the longer-is-faster-than-shorter limb thingy?
I think it comes down to a longer limb works more so more energy build, rather than a shorter limb that works less.
Hmmm, I don't think one "works" more or less than the other per se. the amount of work done is the same for either limb. X amount of weight is moved Y amount of distance.
I always figured two bows of the same overall length but different riser length (which requires different limb length) both do the same amount of work. i.e. Two bows both pulling say 55# @ 28 inches. What is different is the amount of work being done per inch of bendable bow limb. Just always heard that more work per inch is more efficient therefore faster.
Mike, did Blacky give you any details? I'm just armchairing this idea but he does actual testing so I'm curious.
Rob, remember a couple months ago Mr. O.L. Adcock wrote a lengthy explanation of why longer limbs were faster than shorter limbs (all else being equal) and he mentioned that the shorter-is-faster was a myth handed down from generation to generation.
Regarding his explanation: I couldn't understand it either! But I do believe him and I believe Mike (Wingnut) above as it seems everyone who has done testing reaches the longer-is-faster conclusion.
Bill
:coffee: time to pull out the old physics books again....then again, its fun to see what gets posted, so nah!
The one thing I didn't mention last night is that the difference is a few fps and a point on the DE. That is a bunch to us when designing and testing but really not a bunch if your shooting in the field.
The "shorter is better and faster" I think is coming from the compound design side. As limb materials get better they can preload the short bows and limbs to unbelievable levels. The results are very fast bows.
Mike
mike has just confirmed my suspicions - every riser/limb design has an optimum set of performance dimensions. amen to that.
Here is a thread you might be iinterested in. I asked the question about shorter limbs = better performance. On this thread some of the elite bow makers out there responded to the question.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=047983
Enjoy,
-Charlie
Thanks Charlie, checking it out right ahead.
Interesting post by DAS Kinetic:
"Personally, I would not base my limb length decision on a possible performance gain. I would consider the terrain and conditions that I hunt in, and get the longest bow that works in those conditions. The longer bow will be smoother, easier on the fingers, more forgiving, and possibly quieter. A pretty good trade for a couple FPS that might not even materialize."
Wise words. I plan to pull 32" as I will mainly be pulling with the thumb, so I guess I'll be getting the SHORTEST bow that will work with a 32" draw.
Thank you all VERY much for your inputs :notworthy: :campfire:
It's been my experience when bare-shaft matching folks with arrows, that shorter bows tend to need higher spine than longer bows of the same draw weight. This doesn't necessarily mean they're faster, though. The abruptness with which the force is applied is greater with shorter working limbs, which explains why higher spine is needed to compensate, but total energy output might be the same or even less, depending on multiple design factors. Speed and spine don't necessarily correlate.
That's definetely also something I should be aware about. Thanks :)