I am getting frustrated with the hunting distances compound hunters can get veres my longbow distances. To the point that I have considered changing to a compound. Have there been any good threads regarding ttrue shhotind distances or any current comments?
I believe Howard Hill took an elk at 185yards with his longbow!
Ibeleive the reason I chose to shoot traditional equipment was to improve my hunting skills and not rely on modern equipment to get the job done
heck...wait until rifle season and you can take them from 300 yds ....... i like 20 yds max .... although i did have a buck at 15 feet the other day that i couldnt draw on....
The distance i was getting with my compound vs my longbow is the exact reason i no longer own a compound...
Good luck with your season and i hope you get one closer :thumbsup:
back in the day of the big name archers long before wheels 100 yds. was'nt unheard of. thats the kind of thing made them famous. not now a day though we would be slobs.
Wait a minute. We talkin' about hunting or shooting? ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by mb.legolas:
I am getting frustrated with the hunting distances compound hunters can get veres my longbow distances. To the point that I have considered changing to a compound. Have there been any good threads regarding ttrue shhotind distances or any current comments?
Well, I guess if killing a deer is that important to you......
Screw what the compound boys can do. Hell, I can take an animal at 600yds with a good rifle, but I choose not to. Traditional bowhunting is an up-close & personal thing.
If you constantly compare what you can do to what others can do, you'll only ever be dissappointed. What other folks can do isn't important. Do whatever
you want to do
I switched from a compound to trad for the same reason huntingwolf did, I like it up close and personal.
If you just want take game and need to expand your range then go for it I guess but you will be back to a stick and string before it's over.
As far as shooting distance I can hit a golf ball out to 40 or so yards with a longbow or recurve. I don't see many guys getting a shot out that far even with a compound and if they are taking shots out to 40 or 50 I say there's to much that can happen in the deer woods in that amount of time. Even when I hunted compounds most all the deer I took where inside 25 yards. Like I said I like it up close and personal. If a guy wants range he needs to hunt with a gun and hang up his bow.
JMO Kris
I have to agree with the idea that if you want range then shoot a gun. There are a lot of compound hunters that will take ridiculous shots that they can make in the shop, or at the range and could never make in the woods on an animal. I have cleaned enough animals that already had a broadhead in them to know that it is far better to keep it close and personal. I keep it to 25 yards and under. I know I can put it in the kill zone at those ranges.
I've yet to kill any big game animals with traditional bows. Did the wheel bow thing,then trad,then wheel bows now back to trad and NONE of the animals I've killed with a wheel bow have been past 25 yards not to build myself up but I've killed my fair share with a bow. I beleive that idea of hunting with a bow is to see how close you can get to the animal in the first place not how far you can shoot/kill one.
A article in TB was talking about a old archery season, 2000 shots and 19 deer killed. A lot of those shots were 100 yards. The 19 deer were killed from 30 to 60 yards. Times have sure changed. I am using a self bow this year and can do pretty good out to 20 yards.
It is not how far. It's how close!
Unless your hunting out west you can't for the most part take really long shots. There's twigs or brush or what have you most every direction when hunting. Really your only going to be able to shoot to 25-30yds max. Set your stands at hub points that put the deer at close range, it's much more intense. The true difference betwean the C bow and the S bow is arrow clearance. That is where you can put the arrows through holes in brush. Believe me I've had monsters that a compound could have easily taken, I know you pain!!
Up close and personal is THE reason to hunt with traditional equipment. The way I shoot, there is still a lot of hunting to be done when the quarry is 40 yards away. That, and the feel of a beautiful traditional bow in your hands, somehow putting you in touch with a simpler time. If those things don't turn your crank, then there are compounds, crossbows, handguns, muzzleloaders, and/or centerfire rifles that are all legal hunting weapons. Just depends on how you see your place in the hunting world, I guess. BTW, I have a pristine Winchester pre 64 model 70 for sale that has not been fired in many years. You can reach out and touch them from hundreds of yards away with that!
It's not about how far you can shoot them rather how close you can get..
Yesterday I passed on a shot I felt confident in. (Buck was around 60 yard head down feeding and had not a clue I was around.) I have shot smaller targets at greater distance while stumping and felt I could make the shot.(I had that lump in my gut that says "You can do it" and that lump never lies.)
I opted to see how close I could get and at 30 yards, the dreaded wind at my back was felt, and the game was over.. But hey,, that's why they call it hunting, and I have another memory I will cherish.. (although I know I would have made that shot)
I understand what you're saying mb. I have taken a few with my trad gear and even more with the other bow, but until you take one with trad it may be hard to grasp how much more it means.
For example...last wed, evening I took my CB bow to a ladder stand I have at the edge of a field.
I always see deer at longer ranges there, plus no trees kinda throws my "how far is that" outta whack.
In front of me is a green hay field, my stand is in a ditch that runs 3/4 out into it starting from the base of a mountain. Behind me is a 3 acre honeysuckle/briar thicket.
Low and behold three good bucks appear 15yds behind me in the thicket. My first thoughts were how perfcet this would have been with my recurve.
And it would have been too, as I killed the 9pt out of the bunch at 6 steps.
Don't get me wrong, I love to kill when I hunt, and I am very happy with my buck, but that hunt was much less memorable than it should have been. I'm still kicking myself for not bringing my recurve.
Hang in there...you'll know what I'm talking about when you get a few under your belt.
It's well worth the time, effort and passed deer along the way. Good things will start to happen.
Good luck.
Robert
Oh..as far as true shooting range.
I took an eightteen in. 8pt. last year at 35yds. and a hog at a steep uphill 40yds. the year before that.
Most of them have come around 15yds. though.
Here's a tip...hunt the thick stuff where you can't get a shot past 25yds or so. You'll likely see more deer there anyway.
Do your scouting and set your stands where you can't shoot past your effective range. Set them in thick cover you won't see deer too far off. Then you won't be wishing you had a compound. I just switched last year. Almost every deer I have seen this year I'm fairly sure I could have killed. I have killed 3 does this year so far. LCH
the fun/challenge is getting close,
i like to see the white of the eyes
I took up trad archery a couple of years ago to make it more of a challenge, so I wouldn't worry to much about what the compound shooters can do. I doubt, however, that I'll ever be as good as some of the others on this site. I would just be lucky if I was hitting a golf ball at 40 yards regularly and I definitely don't feel confident out to 60 yards with a stickbow. At least I guess I have goals to shoot for.
Good wisdom in these threads. Thank you!
Most of the deer and other critters over my 30 years of bow hunting have been shot at under 15 yards . I killed a moose at 6 steps. If i had been shooting a mechanical arrow flinger none of those kills would stand out, as they would have all been dead at 30 , 40 or 50 yards. We who choose to make our kills the most difficult we can, get rewarded with experiences others will never get to enjoy. much less understand. I am no longer impressed with big bucks or other trophy animals when I hear they are killed at distances the animals could not have known the shooter was there. When you kill them at ten paces or less, now that man was hunting!
Like a lot of the replies, I like the challenge of getting closer, not shooting further.
I am sure the compound shooters can shoot further than me. But they miss too; I missed a couple of deer when I tried those contraptions - you probably don't hear so much about that. And, on the long range shots what happens if the animal makes an unexpected move? I know bad things can happen with any shot, with any kind of bow - but I think it gets magnified when shooting longer distances.
Also I kind of like the idea that if my string breaks I can replace it in about 2 minutes vs a trip to the tech shop.
I hope you stick with traditional, but keep in mind it is supposed to be fun, so good luck with your decision.
I guess you could say I've been frustrated a time or two at shots I 'swear I coulda made' with my compound when I had my trad bow in hand. In reality it was just in my head. Hopefully you'll get over that soon.
Like others have said, it's not about what others do, but what YOU do. If you aren't happy then maybe you just aren't ready yet.
I've been bowhunting going on 7 seasons now. Not a long time, but long enough. Of all the deer I have killed with trad bow AND compound only two were over 23yds and both those were 52 and 55yds. I guess what I'm saying is pay attention to your setup. It doesn't always work out, but generally you should be able to get critters closer than 40yds(or half that really) throughout a season.
Long shots are just insecurity.
This fall I watched a 6x6 bull elk for 20 minutes that was broadside, but beyond my comfort zone for a clean kill. While trading hunting stories later with some friends who hunt with compounds one of them said "either one of us (pointing to his buddy) would have been able to take that bull..."
As if animals won't jump the string on compounds too.
It was really a revelation to me. I had never dissed compounds and was pretty surprised that in that one statement one-upmanship become part of our relationship, because I hunt trad and they hunt compound and someone has a problem with that difference.
Let me say this: letting what others "would have done" get under your skin will ruin the sport (any sport) for you. As mentioned by others enjoy the sport for yourself, on your terms. Don't measure its worth against equipment made for those who wouldn't dare give up pin sights, releases and super fast arrow flight in attempting to take game, or against shots that are really too far to be ethical, even if they sometimes are successful.
It is a remarkable thing that you hunt with equipment that even with carbon arrows requires you to become one with it and intuitive. It requires you to get closer to remain ethical.
Long shots are for gamblers, not good hunters. A lot can happen between the time an arrow is released and when it makes its target. The target only needs to step forward 12 inches and the shot is marginal or crippling.
There is no shame in being ethical.
Joshua
Just because someone can bust nocks all day long at 50 yards with a compound doesn't make that a sensible distance to shoot at animals. Turns out - animals move.
I watched some "hunting" show this morning where a guy wounds a ram around 300 yards with his rifle and then finally kills it around 700 yards. Ok - that ain't hunting. It's shooting (perhaps decent shooting) but it does not require the same skill set we need to employ to get within 10-20 yards of an animal.
Shooting is fun but hunting is a bigger challenge, in my opinion. Get close and take your shots.
I never let the distance the compound shooters are proficient at bother me. I like the challenge of getting close versus the efficiency at longer range. I am good to go at about 20 yards. Sure, I get busted more often than not, but that's just the way I like to play the game. But I have no crticism for the guys who like the longer distance of the compound - just as long as they stay within their accurate distance.
missed 3 so far this yr and passed on a 30 yd shot but it beats huntin with a compound .If i really wanted one I would take a gun
Our very own Orion said to me earlier this year (when I was contemplating making the switch....and had similar "fears")....
"When the 'how' becomes more important than the 'how big' or 'how many'.....you'll make the switch".
Best advice I ever got regarding hunting. It's ALL about the 'how', for me.
Good luck.
I can put four consecutive arrows into a baseball size group at 30 yards, but I don't shoot at deer beyond 20 yards. Backyards and deerwoods are two entirely different places to use as a standard for your capability.
QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
If you constantly compare what you can do to what others can do, you'll only ever be dissappointed. What other folks can do isn't important. Do whatever you want to do [/QB]
Thats well put. 1 thing I have found ffrom trad, I have gone started walking more quitely through the woods. Maybe its a switch thats been flicked becuase I know I dont have the range of my compound.
I'd rather be a better stalker than a long range record holder.
PS: Robtattoo, just noticed you location, did you make it out there permanantly??
I like to be 12-20 yards, when I did hunt with a compound I liked 12-20 yards!!! Regardless of type of bow its all about being close. To much of the "Gotta get one" logic now days.
Started off with trad. went to compound and could consistently hit 50cent piece at 50yds. Setting in tree stand one day with my release aid on etc. and said this is too much. Sold compound got a Longbow, started making my own wood arrows etc. and have never looked back. For me it all about the quality of the hunt and then the kill!!! to each his own.
Hunt for the joy of it.
A modern compound bow with all the accessories can out do most anyone with a stick bow as far as long range accuracy. Animals move, and targets don`t. Because of this, for hunting, an arrow has limited range. Regardless of what launches it.
When you get within 20 yards or so of almost any game animal, you become much easier to detect.
They can sometimes FEEL your presence.
Hunting is great. Frustration should be the furthest thing from your mind. There are so many good feelings to get from it, that you are missing out if you are feeling frustrated.
I can shoot one farther with a compound than a recurve.
I can shoot one farther with a flintlock rifle than a compound.
I can shoot one farther with an inline and scope than my flintlock.
I can shoot one farther with a Winchester Model 1894 and iron sights than my inline/scope.
I can shoot one farther with my .30-06 and peep sights than my inline/scope.
I can shoot one farther with my .270 Winchester model 70 and Leupold scope than my .30-06/peep sights.
I can shoot one farther with my 7mm Mag and 40X scope than my .270 Winchester/Leupold.
I can shoot one farther.....you get the point.
This is exactly why I went back to traditional archery! I wanted the feel of "hunting" I never killed a deer stalking,I did kill one on the ground last year with my wheelie bow and again at like 10-12 yards out of my double bull. Could have/should have been with my recurve. I changed alot this year,went back to the recurve. Started going in on foot no 4-wheeler,it just plain "feels better" to me. I guess you have to shoot traditional bows like us just to understand it. I've got a hunting trip planned for the first week of November on the ground rattling,bleating for deer and just plain still hunting,posting for em too. I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!! :)
T
It is a matter of getting up close and personal with the game that drives me. You have to deside what drives you. To hunt or to kill. Now I have killed animals with guns,compounds, recurves and long bows. I have killed deer, elk and antelope with compounds out to yards I don't care to mention(when I was young and dumb), elk out to 500 yards with a gun. And none really get me excited. This last year I shoot my frist trad kill in years,It made me so excited that I had sit down so I did't fall out a tree stand. My friend Roger holds the 90 meter world record with a bow and has shoot on the USA mens field team. He is jealous of me because he can't seen to kill with trad gear. I think Roger is on his fourth year hunting with a recurve.
35 yards and under; the more under- the better.
I like to challange my skill as a hunter size an numbers dont matter.the more skills you devlope the more size an numbers wont be an issue.If you want to be the guy in your group or club who gets all the deer all the time then maybe you should hunt with a wheel bow. this is a humble sport.the best way to be humble is to have acceptance.where has your stealth gone?
I really don't even view my long bow as a handicap anymore. It's taken me 4 years but I can now shoot pretty decent out to about 25 yards. My longbow is much lighter to carry, much quieter and I don't have to strain to look through a peep sight at last light. I never took shots any farther 25-30 yds with a compound anyhow. Yea, I don't get to put giant stickers on the back window of my truck like some of the compound crew but I'll cope with it.
I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but the last data I saw from a national survey had the average kill shot on deer being from 17 yards - and that's mostly from compound shooters.
Sure you can drive nails easily enough at 40+ with sights and a release, but shooting at deer? There's a reason guys who are shooting at deer from that distance don't recover as many of them. Too much time (yeah, even shooting 300+ fps IBO) for the deer to do something to turn a good shot into a bad one.
I have to agree with most of the folks on here It is not how far away you can shoot but how close you can get the animal. When I see a deer at 100yards I get exited. When I see a deer at 10 yards My knees shake so hard the leaves start falling off the tree! I have shot countless deer with my rifle and compound and have only shot 3 deer with my longbow (all doe) I remeber and will always remeber my LB deer most of all. Remeber it is not about what we kill when we are in the woods its all about the memories we make while we are in the woods.
No offense, honestly, but I find it amusing that your handle is Stealth Man :D
As others have mentioned, figure out what it is that you want from the hunting experience, then choose the weapon that allows for it. Good luck,
Stan
On Saturday i had a beautiful 10 pointer at 35 yards from my stand. I know i can make that shot, most of the time. But i let him walk since if I gut shot him i would probably lose him in the area i hunt. The deer tend to head for the houses and it is tough to get your deer then or they get spooked by the neighbors and they cross the road into a only surburban area and are gone. He was awesome for the area I hunt but I have no regrets.
I once shoot a small buck sleeping at about 10 ft,I could hear snoring on his bed. I remenber it more than any PY buck.
I know of a fella that missed with a compound and release from a whopping 5 yrds
I personally missed from 19 at a time when I could blow your nocks off at will from that distance
One of my buds has missed twice this yr at 20yrds too
point is you can miss with the wheels just as easy it's a choice only you can make...I switched back at one time for the reason you said only to watch a buck walk by less than 10yrds and it made me wonder what I was doing with that bow again...it's long been sold but I did have fun with it for many yrs before going all trad
Mike,
Go kill some deer with the compound. Do it with a clear conscience letting no one tell you how to hunt or what to hunt with.
You've already been bitten by this bug so trust me - you won't be in remission for long. It's incurable. ;-)
46r
I have a compound and yes I can hit a 6 inch plate at 50-60yrds the accuracy is ridiculous,BUT the arrow is as week as a newborn inch worm they have very little penetration at that distance and it is very unethical to hunt like that.I love the skill involved with traditional shooting and to be honest I think those that shoot compounds are using them to compensate for the lack of form, patience, skill, and all around attention to detail.Shoot a deer with a compound and see how it feels(boring) now shoot one with a long bow and feel your ancestors pat you on the back.
I know how you feel, when i go to woods i want to take game! I mean if i wanted to just be outdoors id ssave all money on hunting stuff and just take pictures or walk... when i see a deer at 30 yards on more i want to be able to take him not sit there and be like oh well not 15 or 20 yards away. I dont know but i want to put animals on the ground. thats one big reasons i hunt is to take game. i hate not getting shooting opotunties. i have not taken enough deer in my hunting career to just be happy with just enjoying getting really close to just get a shot. thats why i find my self hunting with wheels more these days. and lack of deer sightings here in pa got my feathers ruffled to lol.
Use what you want. I think the post about "you've been bitten..you'll be back" is gonna work out to be the truth. If it doesn't it's no problem, and if it does end up being the truth...that's still no good reason NOT to go to the compound.
I think the post about compound arrows not having energy is kinda bogus. Take what you've learned from here about how to build an arrow and apply it to your compound setup. No, you won't have super flat trajectory but you'll have the aids of crisp release and sights. On top of that you ought to be able to pull considerably higher poundage...don't believe that compounds can't deliver an "ethical" arrow.
As to claiming that harvesting a deer with a compound is boring...maybe for some. I bored with "shooting" compounds...definitely NOT hunting with compounds. And as I shoot several hundred, heck, several thousand, arrows at a target for every one I shoot at an animal that was enough for me to make the switch.
Do keep this in mind:
Getting the arrow out of the bow with enough precision to be spot-on at 40-50 yards may be easier with a compound. But there are A LOT of things that can go wrong between there and your target. Compound or longbow makes no difference there. ALL the deer I've missed with a compound...compound/trad would've made no difference at all. None.
You ain't hunting for us. You's hunting for you.
Do what you like...you can even buy un-American if you wish by-golly!!!!
:Rant-off:
well said
If it's eating at you, go back to the compound machine...it's not a bow. I use traditional equipment because it's what I like...if I want a machine I go play with the lawnmower.
By the way....There were a few folks who shot long distances back in the day, but most folks didn't. The distances and numbers keeps growing with the telling.
In one of the old Bow and Arrow Magazines I have in my collection, there is a listing of deer taken, bow weight, average shot distance and yardage the deer went. Even where they were hit.
The average shot was about 28 yards, with the longest being around 70 and the shortest 5 yards.
Let's give those old folks some credit...they weren't all arrow flinging zealots....most were archers hunting deer.
QuoteOriginally posted by Robert Honaker:
[QB] I understand what you're saying mb. I have taken a few with my trad gear and even more with the other bow, but until you take one with trad it may be hard to grasp how much more it means.
BINGO! I shoot 20 yards or less. I got my first last night, and it means more to me then any deer I have ever shot with a compound. I sold everything a year and a half ago, and never looked back.
Its the journey, and it took me a while to realize that. I had alot of misses at deer, and over time the frustration just went away. I knew how I can shoot on the range so I knew I had it in me, its just a matter of time before it came out. Im willing to bet the same will happen to you.. Keep at it :thumbsup:
QuoteI haven't read all the posts on this thread, but the last data I saw from a national survey had the average kill shot on deer being from 17 yards - and that's mostly from compound shooters.
Sure you can drive nails easily enough at 40+ with sights and a release, but shooting at deer? There's a reason guys who are shooting at deer from that distance don't recover as many of them. Too much time (yeah, even shooting 300+ fps IBO) for the deer to do something to turn a good shot into a bad one.
I think this should be repeated.
I shoot both compound and trad bow. I hunt more with my compound and have yet to take a deer with my recurve, but I'm still trying.
I don't think we as archers need to critisize other archers, even if they are choosing to hunt wtih a compound. If he can ethically kill with a compound, but not a trad bow, so be it. Bow hunting either way takes skill and a lot of luck.
I'd rather see someone hunt with the weapon they are most confident with when it comes to taking game. I'm not going to critisize anyone for their choice of hunting as long as it is legal in their state.
The closer I get, the better I am.
Do you want to be a hunter or a shooter.I know of no one that takes up trad.archery because they wish to be a shooter.Most get caught up in the romance and then realizem sets in when that buck of a life time walks by at 30 plus yards.And you tell yourself if I'd only had my old compound..
When all you need is pay more attention to the wind the route the way you go to your stand.Just pay more attention to the small details.Don't try to gain an edge through shooting distance.
I've been shooting a selfbow for 20 years.Last 5 of the ground and have killer 33 bucks.SO it can be done.All under 15 yards.
I am hunting this year with a compound simply because I dont feel comfortable with shooting my long bow yet, when I feel comfortable with the Long bow I will start using it. But when gun season comes around I will use a gun because I need to put meat on the table. I like shooting my long bow but I dont feel comfortable trying to shoot a deer with it yet.
QuoteOriginally posted by Roy Steele:
Do you want to be a hunter or a shooter.I know of no one that takes up trad.archery because they wish to be a shooter...
Dude, cut the poor guy some slack. He's just as much a hunter with a compound in his hand as he is with a longbow in his hand. Then again, maybe a real "hunter" would jump out of the tree with a knife in his teeth and stab his deer to death. ;-)