1st year all trad....and here's my take, so far.
This is harder than I thought it would be. Period.
The No. 1 thing I'm having trouble with, is getting VISUALLY busted. A little background....is I've been a wheelie bow hunter up until this year....taking 21 whitetails in the the last 3 seasons. So I'm used to getting on deer. That hasn't changed, this year. I'm setting up where they're coming through....but I've been visually busted more times this year than in the 3 previous years, combined (it used to be really rare). I AM hunting lower with my recurve. I need to. Granted, that doesn't help. But the main thing...I think...is the knowedge that I can't draw and hold my bow, now, like I used to. I could always (in the past) pick an opportune time to draw. Now....those opportunities are few and far between.
Im NOT complaining. I think Barry W. said "this is supposed to be hard"....and I agree! I've been fortunate enough to take two does, so far this year....but it's been since 9/21 since I dropped the string (that's almost FORTY hunts ago)....and yes...I get to hunt a lot.
I've gone over setups in my head....and I really can't think of anything I could be doing differently....other than holding my bow the entire time I'm on stand (been busted reaching for it at least a couple times). I suppose I'm realizing there's a huge diff. between 17' up and 23-25' up.
Just rambling, I guess. The time is here when I start to focus on 100% buck hunting....and I know I only get 1 or 2 chances/season. Just gotta get the confidence, I suppose. I'm on the deer.....just not closing the deal.
End of rant!
Hunting lower and closer are, to me, the main reason Trad is more difficult. I think the closer part gets me more than the lower. Rarly get busted drawing the bow though(heck, I rarly get a shot) as it is more of a smooth, slow motion.
I havent been busted drawing, either. But I've been in such tight qtrs I knew better than to attempt to draw!
I suppose the frustration should be outweighed by the joys when you finally ARE successful....but like I said...I see me getting 1 or 2 chances at a shooter buck (if history holds true). I'm EXTREMELY confident in my setups. But the planets are going to have to align for me to pull this off.
Shoot less weight? I only hunt with 48-50# normally, and can hold at full draw for a while if needed.
I think you are doing fine, as most don't kill two a year. Most probably don't kill one every year with trad tackle.
Are you haveing fun? Sounds like you are. :)
You need to use more then height to camo yourself in a tree. Try picking places that have three levels of cover. First and most important is behind yourself to breakup the outline, second it between you and the deer and third is close to the shot location.
You might also think about a Ghillie or leafy suit in the stand. I've been using Ghillies for the last two years and haven't been busted yet. They look but can't focus on the form. Looks like a bushy part of a tree.
Mike
I'm having an absolute BLAST! Feels like this is the way I was meant to hunt. I'll never go back...I know that.
Tight qtrs is most definitely a factor, also. I haven't attempted a shot over 17yds (the other kill was from 12yds). I've also had them at well under 10yds a few times and KNEW I couldn't get drawn....and let 'em walk. THAT is frustrating.
I'm settig up in much more foliage than I ever have....and that, too, diminishes opportunities (but would allow me to draw 'more' easily). It's just a dose of reality I hadn't fully planned on. Not complaining, at all....just stating a fact.
I've climbed probably 40 of those 50 or so hunts, so far....out of my LW sit and climb. I think I'm gonna order the hand climber uppper....so I'll have more (read BETTER) opportunities to each side...that would require less movement to get in the shooting position. That's probably cost me an op. or 2 (60" AMO is a 'tad' diff. than 32"....lol).
I hope no one takes this as complaining. I'm not!
QuoteYou might also think about a Ghillie or leafy suit in the stand. I've been using Ghillies for the last two years and haven't been busted yet. They look but can't focus on the form. Looks like a bushy part of a tree.
I'm also shooting 52#'s...and I handle that "fairly easily" (coming from a 71# compound). I DID order my LB at 47#'s though.
Can't tell it from these photos...but I hunt in a full facemask, gloves.....and the only skin exposed is a slit where my eyes are cut in my mask.
wingnut has it right, we can't hunt like we did with a bow with training wheels on them, I struggled as well with lowering my stand, it just feels right being lower. But I do have some stand placements that are twenty feet up. I practice all year from my stand in the yard 10 15 20 feet up, not on the ground because I don't hunt from the ground. Plus it helps me burn some of this blubber off. I like the gilly suit idea I am going to get one so I can hunt lower if anything it will make me feel better. I wish you luck. That's what is great about this club, we all get to vent our frustrations. In the end we hunt with stick and string because it just feels right, and yes it is harder.
L.O.L
Bruce :archer:
That brown predator is great when the leaves drop, but against the green canopy it's going to stand out, like it does in the pics.
Do you have any low trees with lots of cover to hide your stands in or behind? I put up two stands last weekend that you can stand 10 ft from with a hunter in them and not be able to pick out the hunter. Of course I might be a little anal about cover.
Mike
GMMAT there is a difference between compound hunting and BOWhunting isn't there?
you can't tell your wheelie buddies on huntingnet that, they'll ostracize you for sure!
welcome to bowhunting and archery!
You may have to change your shooting style for trad hunting(but now is not the time to think about that) You have all winter and summer to re-educate yourself to a more instinctive and looser style. I use a G. Fred Asbell style of instinctive shooting and for me it can be more effective for those tight set ups and quick situations.
I have never had the opportunity to hunt around croplands. When I set my stands up they are the same whether I'm hunting with a bow or a rifle. Actually the range of most of my rifle shots could easily have been bow shots.
When crunch time comes all I want to do is concentrate on where the arrow WILL go. My brain and many hours of practice take care of the mechanics of the shot.
Challenges set trad apart. Not to say you can't kill as many or more deer; but, it will be different. The learning curve is part of the fun. Hang in there.
Height is not the answer....background is. If you are using a climber, then you can't be too particular about trees....but a hang on will access any tree. Pick one with multiple trunks if possible, but always one that has background to breakup your outline.
High stands cause acute angles of arrow entry..I wouldn't go higher, just hide better. Try some ground blinds....they acutally work as well as tree stands.
I'm a sticker for back cover. Always have been.....until leaf drop....when I go to a more open pattern (Enigma or predator).
Wingnut....I'm wearing ASAT in those photos. I can't get the photos to resize and still be clear enough to see. Sorry.
Due to the high probability of theft....I can't use lock-ons in my best spots. I climbed almost 90X last season, alone.
I Know It's Hard. Wouldn't have it any other way. Trad Archery is all about gettin' close. Lots of times ya get busted. Hey... It's all good. Some of us love to hunt from the ground. We know what "almost" means.
... mike ...
Try a double bull! I've shot a ton of critters out of mine and never get busted
One thing different between trad and compound is the draw and hold like you said. With your trad bow, the time to draw is also the time to shoot or just a second before. Think about it. With the compound, you'd draw, hold, wait for a shot to present itself. Preferably with the deer looking away. It's still the same with a trad bow, just draw AND shoot when it looks away.
Of course, in the last few years, it seems to have become common to shoot deer that are looking right at you. All the hunting shows seem like they take that shot. You know, they grunt to stop the deer, it looks right at the hunter and the hunter asks the cameraman 3 or 4 times, "are you on him?" then shoots while the deer is looking right at him. That's always bugged me but I guess it works. You'll have to get back into the habit of being an invisible hunter. Don't draw any undue attention and take the shot when it comes naturally.
Jeff I don't hunt lower and don't have any problem I just try to get my shots out about 12 to 17 yards. I hunt between 25 and 30 feet up. The only differance I find hunting with a longbow is I don't like to shoot past 25 yards.Lee
I was wondering if you are seeing some of the same deer and they have been educated about looking up. Then they go tell their buddies, "hey guys that is not a big coon in that oak tree!!!!" I got busted onece this year after a big old doe snuck up on me and sniffed the botom of the ladder stand I was in and looked right up the ladder at me. She got quite the surprise and the look in her eyes was priceless. She got out of there in a big hurry. As was said before backdrop is the key and sometimes its hard to not get skylined when using a climber or hang on stand, depending on the area you hunt.
Dave....I think you're exactly right. When I hunted high(er)....I'd see deer...reach for my bow (remember...I'd see them, sooner...and they were further out)....stand (if sitting) and wait for a time to DRAW. Now...if I try that...busted. They're too close to allow that. I guess I need to either let things play out...OE hold my bow more.
boues....I'm very mobile. I've got 7 fixed stands set....and I climb a LOT. 2 of those fixed stands haven't been hunted...and I've sat in the same tree more than once....only 2X. I run and gun a lot.
Lesson in patience, I'm sure. Thanks, all.
I've hunted selfows for 20 years and recurves and long bows for 10 years before that.And I've shot dozzens of bucks and 12 to 15 feet off the ground all under 15 yards.And a dozzen or so off the ground.Never really hand a problem with being busted.
You only need to change your tree stand placement a little.I'd olny set up where I'd have my back to the trail the buck was comeing down.And let him walk past me.This is how I'd set all my sd]tands up.
I've only ground hunted for the last 5 years.And use this system with ground hunting.And never get busted and again all my shots are under 15 yards.
Thirty feet high? Do you really know how high that is in a tree? That makes no sense. Go measure that stand....really. 8^). That's nearly four times the height of the average room in your house.
For Heaven's sake....if you have to get in nose bleed altitude to get a deer close you need to revisit your hunting tactics.
Right on, George. :thumbsup:
Right on, George. :thumbsup:
Right on, George. :thumbsup:
Oops. Guess I hit the send button a few too many times.
My 2 cents worth, I'll prop up in a tree top from a blow down or one thats been cut down for the timber, thers limbs for some cover front and back, and if I need more I'll use some type of camo cloth or burlap.
Maybe you can dress up stand so to speak, use some limbs or cloth or both, leave enuff room to manuver around, mite even surround yourself and leave a shootin hole. Just a thought.
QuoteOriginally posted by George D. Stout:
Thirty feet high? Do you really know how high that is in a tree? That makes no sense. Go measure that stand....really. 8^). That's nearly four times the height of the average room in your house.
For Heaven's sake....if you have to get in nose bleed altitude to get a deer close you need to revisit your hunting tactics.
Amen! That's crazy!
Jeff,
If you are getting busted reaching for your bow, then hold it. I hold mine all the time. Occasionally I will hang it, but only if I am in an area where I will see them soon enough to grab it before they are close.
Also, if they are busting when you are drawing, then you need to completely ignore it. Pick your spot and when you are ready to shoot, just draw and shoot. Don't pay any attention to the deer turning its head to look at you when you draw. Before they realize what it is up, it will be too late. This was hard for me to learn! My first few deer I stopped at half draw when the deer looked at me. You are basically screwed at that point.
I have gotten to where I focus so hard on my spot that I don't even notice if they turn to look at me.
Murphys law is prevalent when hunting.If your not ready,thats when the deer will show up.Amazing how an animal that big can be so ghostlike quiet.
Hooked....that'll take a LOT of UNlearning!....lol....but I'll try it. I've heard it before, but never tried it. I'm the guy you describe if they look at me.
Ray....that's the no. 1 thing about deer hunting that intrigues me the most. HOW can an animal the size of a deer go through the forest and hide so well? Amazing! I love this about them.
Thanks, guys. I'll take all of this to heart. I KNOW having 2 deer down and in the freezer in anyone's traditional whitetail season is a blessing. I know that. What concerns me is.....I've put myself on the deer of late....and I just haven't sealed the deal, again. With "most" all of my efforts being focused on a buck, now.....I'd be lying if I said it didn't concern me, though. I typically get 1-2 chances (encounters) with a "shooter"/season. I HAVE to make it happen when it occurs (and I've been lucky to do so in the past....with my wheeled bow).
Thanks, again!
Jeff....some folks have become a bit spoiled, and I don't mean that to be nasty. From the time I started bowhunting in 1965, until sometime in the 80's, we could only take one deer per year in Pa.; if I shot a doe with the bow, I couldn't take a buck. Then there came a doe lottery, and we could take as many as two deer per year 8^). Now that still exists, except where there are D-MAP programs...area where extra does can be taken by permit.
Nowadays, we have folks who can take a deer a day, in many states, but the average guy in Pa. can still only take two...1 buck and 1 doe per year. Those of us who have lived here all of our lives laugh at guys who only get two, three or four deer and complain about it 8^).
Hang in there and enjoy the opportunity you are blessed with. Two deer here would keep a family all winter and curb those grocery bills. Good luck partner, you are doing quite well already.
Like I said, George....I KNOW it's been a blessed season, already. I DO put a lot into this, though...and I'm really looking for anything that would help me when my chance at a shooter buck comes (and it always has). I don't get many chances, and I know I have to make them count.
Thanks, again.
Jeff
Welcome to bowhunting! Won't be long now and your wheelie buddies will be calling you an elitist LOL...and you will have earned that title.
Killed 21 deer in three seasons with the techie gear did you? Wasn't so hard was it? Kinda like shooting a gun...only quieter. Once you learn HOW TO HUNT as opposed to HOW TO SHOOT you'll tag just as many. Promise.
I have a friend who has been known to tag 25 deer a year with a long bow out of a ground blind, or just still hunitng. No bait, range finders, lasers, triggers, fancy rests, expanadble broadheads or whatever. (For the record there not one ounce of BS in what I just wrote). You know what the difference is between him and guys like me & you...well mostly like you and I'm not slamming you here...he knows HOW to hunt deer. Stick with it with and think about what you are doing to get within 10 yards. Any closer in a tree stand and it gets harder to shoot.
Always think in terms of getting closer...not covering more ground. THAT is the main difference between bowhunting and the techguys be it gun or compound thingy. They think in terms of how far.
BTW...I tag just as many as ever with my recurve as I did with my compound thingy. Of course three get me through an entire year. Opening weekend I tagged the first two deer I had in range. It isn't that hard to do...if you learn how to HUNT.
One thing you are going to find, if you actually stick with this is that there is a huge difference between bowhunting and wheel shooting as well as the majority of people who gravitiate to either direction. Best part is you get to choose where you want to be. I'll hang with this crowd anyday. Good luck...and best wishes for a memorable season.
QuoteOriginally posted by Scarne:
Welcome to bowhunting! Won't be long now and your wheelie buddies will be calling you an elitist LOL...and you will have earned that title.
Killed 21 deer in three seasons with the techie gear did you? Wasn't so hard was it? Kinda like shooting a gun...only quieter. Once you learn HOW TO HUNT as opposed to HOW TO SHOOT you'll tag just as many. Promise.
I have a friend who has been known to tag 25 deer a year with a long bow out of a ground blind, or just still hunitng. No bait, range finders, lasers, triggers, fancy rests, expanadble broadheads or whatever. (For the record there not one ounce of BS in what I just wrote). You know what the difference is between him and guys like me & you...well mostly like you and I'm not slamming you here...he knows HOW to hunt deer. Stick with it with and think about what you are doing to get within 10 yards. Any closer in a tree stand and it gets harder to shoot.
Always think in terms of getting closer...not covering more ground. THAT is the main difference between bowhunting and the techguys be it gun or compound thingy. They think in terms of how far.
BTW...I tag just as many as ever with my recurve as I did with my compound thingy. Of course three get me through an entire year. Opening weekend I tagged the first two deer I had in range. It isn't that hard to do...if you learn how to HUNT.
One thing you are going to find, if you actually stick with this is that there is a huge difference between bowhunting and wheel shooting as well as the majority of people who gravitiate to either direction. Best part is you get to choose where you want to be. I'll hang with this crowd anyday. Good luck...and best wishes for a memorable season.
Wow
Wow what?
I now know:
1. Where the deer are.
2. Where they bed.
3. Where and what they eat (at different times of the season.
etc...etc...etc...
If you can enlighten me (and I say this humbly) on the 'how to hunt' thing....I'd be mighty appreciative.
I'm puttig myself on deer on a semi-regular basis (had 34 in MY bow range, so far this year). Now...all of those were not targets for me. Given. But....some were, and I didn't make it happen.
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.
Jeff,
I don't know if this is advice as much as a question or a hunch. Is the reason you are having so much anxiety because you are afraid of missing, or worse yet wounding a deer? I only ask that from your first statement.
QuoteBut the main thing...I think...is the knowedge that I can't draw and hold my bow, now, like I used to. I could always (in the past) pick an opportune time to draw. Now....those opportunities are few and far between.
If so I felt the same way going from compound to recurve. In short a lot of things changed but you know that, I'm not trying to say you can't hunt. You are a hunter shooting 21 deer with a bow compound or whatever if a feet not just anyone can say they have done. Going on I think the biggest change I felt wasn't as much of a change as I had originally thought, "Time " Time I had more time than I thought. Going from compound like most here did, I felt like I was panicking when deer came in, I had to learn more patience and just let it happen. Because the deer had to get a little closer than with a compound, the deer did see the boogie man a little more than they did when they were out 5 or 10 yards further. A lot changed and it mostly had to be me and the way I think and set up. Am I making sense, can you relate, or am I off target. :archer:
Bruce
Probably not entirely off. I DO likely need to learn more patience. But the conundrum, I'm finding, is.....not being so high up....and being in tighter cover....I don't have the time I used to have to get "ready". When I see deer, now, they're on me....and most times already in range.
Afraid of missing? Never enters my mind. I've done the prep.. IF I can get drawn...the ONLY thing I'm thinking is DEAD DEER.
Confidence has never been an issue (as far as hitting what I'm looking at)....lol.
GMMAT,
Aside from a little more clearance for bow limbs, I've never seen any reason to set up a stand differently for a recurve hunter versus one who uses a compound. Most of my regular hunting partners use compounds, and we have no problems hunting out of each others' stands.
If you feel like you need to go higher, go higher. The height of my stands depends on the individual situation. In early season while hunting flat terrain and thick cover, I'm more incluned to stay around twelve to fifteen feet. During late season or when hunting toward the bottom of steep ravines, I'll go as high as twenty-five-plus feet.
I am impatient when deer are close but for me I need to pay attention to the head position of the deer. If they are broadside at less then 20 yards then I wait until the head turns away then draw. The best case is 1/4ing away, but broadside or even angled at you they will pick up movement the way their eyes are in there head.
I am shooting around 45lbs at my draw, from a 48 inch recurve that is equipped with a FAST string.
20yds or > is a good distance for me with snuffers.
this bow is certainly not the fastest-
probably not good past 30yds-
But I CAN hold it for about 15 seconds before I get the shakes.
What weight are you hunting?
I think it was mentioned before, maybe you should go down 5-7 lbs if you can.
Doesn't mean you're weak, probably if anything-smart. If you can still generate enough power for passthru's with a lower poundage at 20 + or -, I would consider that.
I too, just came from a 70# pse that will SMOKE an arrow and you can hold it back all day long.
I think this is a key, to shoot a weight that you can hold back a short while as your holding a bead on him.
Shooting that wheelie has spoiled us, cause its alot easier to release the first time he looks down for a sec, than to try and draw then bead him and release. All this while your heart is trying to beat out of your chest.
Good luck, you have already killed more than I have ;)
Farmer
dude. 21 deer in 3 seasons. thats like a DECADE worth of SIGHTINGS alone for us up here in Mass! you think its difficult/frustrating to go through the draw cycle now, try doing it with the constant thought in the back of your mind that this may be the ONLY deer you see this season!!! :p
just as with a compound I always try to start the draw cycle when the deers head goes behind something. maybe get to 3/4 draw or something. then when the vitals hit the shooting lane anchor and release.
You know Jeff, I have went years without being busted. Even now with my Schafer I hadn't been busted, but there was a year that it seemed like every cotton picking deer that walked by busted me. Maybe you are just having one of those times. We in our club use to make fun of my brother-in-law because he missed so many deer in one year. We would tell him that every deer we saw, was jumpy. They were walking through the world constantly looking up afraid some type of that tree branch was going to get them they would walk and every 2 or 3 steps quickly look up in a panic. "He didn't think we were funny but we got a laugh out of it. Give it some time see if it just passes.
Bruce :archer:
I've thought about that, too, Bruce (one of those years). Maybe the timing is impeccable!....lol
I will say this.....it's been unusually wet....and deer I normally HEAR coming...I don't (or haven't) now. I did, this AM, though (heard them coming). They just came in the AM darkness. No biggie. I'll get mine.
Thanks for all of the replies, guys!
Well said Scarne. Same opinion. The first priority is to thoroughly enjoy yourself with whatever you hunt with. We're privlieged & lucky to be able to hunt trad. It is not a competition nor handicap nor should be. GMMAT, my money's on you.