Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: tarponnut on October 10, 2009, 09:05:00 AM
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I saw a great show on Versus called The Buck Stops Here with Michael Hanback.
They were hunting with Eliot and Luke Strommen on the Milk River in Montana.
Eliot and his son Luke are traditional archers and Luke manages to shoot a great buck on video.
They do a lot of ground hunting and small drives.
Luke does a great job explaining the mystique and romance behind traditional bowhunting.
Check it out!
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I saw that one too. A pleasant change from some of the other shows.
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I too saw that, and was glad to see some trad equipment/guides were involved.
I have, admittedly, a bad habit. Hate it, but can't stop myself from doing so.
Regardless of the type of equipment used, I like comparing all the aspects of the shot, angle, penetration and all involved in the trail to recovery......but wrongfully, do so with a high level of scepticism when I dont have a continuing strip of film to view and it is the normal stop / restart the normally follow.
Again...this is just me and how I watch tv shows on hunting and it is not a good thing, yet I always seem to notice something "off kilter".
Watching the shot, the arrow shows a solid forward hit with ALL the fletching still on the shot side of the deer in clear view as it runs off.
Later, when showing the arrow to the guy who has this show, the feathers are laid back and bloody as they are passing through.
It's obvious to ME that either the arrow got pulled through either by brush or by the hunter before we got to see the deer. No problem there.
However, the comment made on showing the arrow to the other hunter was "man, you really BURIED that arrow".
Yep, that IS nitpicking but I still dislike information given not agreeing with what was seen.
A simple "the arrow must have gotten pulled through after it hit" would have made the entire shot sequence" more on the "up and up" but only TO ME, maybe.
I started doing this years ago when I started noticing, on othere shows, not this one in particular where arrow placement and several things following didnt agree.
The most radical of such was one years back where the hunter shot a deer and it ran off with approximately half the arrow protruding. At the end of the run seen on tv, it clearly showed the arrow snapping off and dropping as the deer entered some heavy brush.
Later, "the arrow" was shown in the end footing, unbroken and bloody end to end.
Since then I started paying more attention or maybe closer attention. I've seen so much NOT agree that I have a hard time believing that most aren't "edited" for tv to give a better appearance for some reason.
Probably not a BAD idea due to the "anti's" bombarding shows and us but still in all, not something I care for.
That said, you are correct that the show did have some good information on traditonal archery and we have so little aired on such that I probably should have not said anything and just be thankful traditional archery got some air time.
No offense intended to anyone or any particular show, just an observation of what I see so hopefully I worded this so it doesn't appear to be TOTALLY negative.
God Bless.
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SlowBoke,
I don't have cable/dish and don't see many "hunting" shows because the ones I do see occasionally turn my stomach.
With that said, one thing to consider is the camera angle and the shooter angle can be very different and may make things look better or worse than they really are. Just a thought.
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I just caught the last 15 minutes of this on rerun tonight. I wish I had seen the whole show, but I just sat down and flipped on the tube. It wasn't camera angle that was the problem. The arrow was buried to the fletching for sure, but not a pass through. When the arrow was recovered, it had been broken, so there is a good chance he hooked it on something and eventually hit something else that snapped the arrow. The fletches had definitely been all the way through. Who knows what was said that got edited out.
The shot was quartering on a bit, which is probably why the arrow didn't go all the way through. I had the same thing happen last year and the arrow looked about the same. It was snapped in half as well. I can't be critical of that aspect of the show because I've been there, done that.
What really did bug me about this show and many of the others on television was the shot Mike Hanback made with his wheelie bow. He obviously spined the buck and it was flopping around trying to get up. Then the camera cuts to him high-fiving his cameraman. Naturally, the buck was stone dead when he walked over to him and Luke Strommen said, "Man, you drilled him." That's when I wanted to puke!
The trad segment (much of which I missed) was diminished by what followed. Along with the part where Luke said, "He's not a great buck, but I'm happy with him." Then Hanback made the usual comment, "Yeah, but killing him with one of those things makes it great." or some such nonsense as he pointed at the longbow. What a bunch of crap! The eight pointer Hanback spined was nothing special at all. What makes those idiots think you can kill bigger bucks with a wheelie bow than with a longbow? My son shot a heck of a lot better buck than Hanback's this fall...with a longbow. :p
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Great show, I really enjoyed the traditional aspect of it!
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I think everyone would be less disappointed if you remember that it is "entertainment". Everything else is secondary, including the hunting.
Joshua
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It was still good to see a longbow in action instead of something someone was trying to sell. That show has done a couple of shows from the Milk River and both were pretty good compared to most of the crap they put on TV.
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I have had arrows go "all the way in" and then come out as the animal started to run. There is a lot our naked eye sees that is only an image of what really happened. Why do you think they use instant replay for athletic events? A lot of us used to think we were shooting high when we missed. After the popularity of videoing hunts came to the fore we discovered how deer react to our shooting and we found out that the deer duck when they begin their flight. I shot a small buck once and it took off with half the arrow showing. When i found the arrow (and the deer) the next morning it had been pulled thru the deer after the head got hung up on some brush. It looked like a pass thru and it sort of was. However, on some of the hunts I have seen on TV the shooter takes a shot with a full quiver of arrows and when they finally recover the animal half the arrows are not in the quiver.....what's with that?
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Watched tred barta the other day gut shoot an elk with a stone point. He didn't shy away from it and showed it on air then refused to hunt another one after they couldn't find it. Never cared much for him, but he gained my respect for that. The shows seem to be slowly getting to abetter place, hope it continues.
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I caught the End of a "Barta" Show last night. He was Marlin Fishing in Mexico......I am Sorry the Dude got Sick, I wouldnt wish that on Anyone!! His "Shows" pretty much rank High on the "Suckage Meter". Of Course, My Opinion.
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it was a good shot either way . enjoyed the show
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I went to the Versus channel online and found the highlights from that hunt. If the clip I saw is the same show you're talking about, The guy did 'bury that arrow' so I don't see what all the hoopla is about....Shot him with a longbow and made a beautiful shot on him....Glad to see some Trad archery on TV....
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Would love to see it but Versus got pulled from DirecTV. :banghead:
Bill
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The Stoemans property is where Gene and Barry perfected the "nudging". Luke was just a youngun when the started guiding the ranch.
Nothing lasts forever, the ranch was sold but Stroemans retained hunting rights for some time. It's funny that Stroeman tries to take credit for the way they hunt that place when Wensels showed them every pattern they stil use today.
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Nobody admires the Wensels more than I, but the nudge or slow push was around long before the boys from Vermont. So credit should be given to someone from over a century ago......
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Yeah Ron, I know, but there is more to it on that part of the Milk River than just nudging or pushing. Alot more.
Anyway, didn't mean to change the subject, sorry.
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I hear ya Biggie, but Like I said before compared to some of the stuff they put on and call hunting shows this one wasn't to bad!
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Steve, Biggie, others....
I bet that I am worse than you about picking apart a show. Man, after being involved with so many programs and bs shows, it is easy to see the retakes and stuff. It is really frustrating, actually. Of all the brands that I have filmed or hunted for, Primos is hands down the most true-to-life. You mentioned the bloody arrow thing with my hunt...truth is that footage you saw was the real deal, live footage. Mike hadn't seen the footage of my shot or anything and we just followed the blood trail in real time....I am guessing an ash tree pulled the arrow through...I have had that happen many a time. Mike didn't know that I didn't get a clean pass through. And we hadn't seen the deer yet...although they obviously did some retakes once we found it from the deer's angle. You should have seen all the dialogue they edited from my hunt...frustrating, but I guess they won't let me piss of thier sponsors. I didn't come to full draw as I released prematurely (I am famous for that), which is why I probably didn't get a pass through...additionally the STOS head punched through both scapulas, you can actually see it move the arrow in slow motion. I was told a long time ago by certain big names and big name brands that they wanted to "make me a star" and give me my own show, etc....I am not like that and lack the ego I guess...I just want to promote Traditional Bowhunting and expose mainly our younger generations to it and it's beautiful story and romance as the last few decades have not done well in that respect. And Biggie, you don'tknow what you are talking about, with all due respect. I do remember you and of course hunting with the Wensels very well. I still correspond with them through 3rd party mostly and thoroughly enjoyed thier newest film and Gene's most recent book...butI also remember hunting with my uncles and Dad well before any of you new about the Milk. Everyone here knows the real truths about those days, but I won't get into that as I don't play that game and would rather be a positve point in life rather than making myself feel better trying to discredit others, especially when it isn't warranted. The real truths find thier way around the circles without my two cents. And it is STROMMEN. Thanks. With all due respect.
Luke Strommen
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Ah HA.........Thanks, Milk!
I'm glad to see you reply and make sense of it all, and will tip my hat to you for doing it "gently".
Ye old adage of "believing nothing of what you hear and only half of what you see" is something I have to remind myself of most times.
I personally meant no PERSONAL offense. I should have worded my post more to the point of "I just dont understand what happened" rather than "disliking things".
My apologies for sure. Don't listen to me, Heck , Im jealous I wasn't THERE!
God Bless
Slowbowke
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30 coupe-
I agree with you 100%...when I approached Mike's buck I didn't know that he had spined him since I hadn't talked to him about that yet and of course hadn't seen the footage. There was so much blood and the deer didn't go far, so my first reaction was he made a good shot...really, though, I have spined several deer as well, not on purpose, but dang they sure don't get away. Mike had hit that artery as well. Done that too, they die quicker than a lung or heart shot. Mike means well when he says things about killing stuff with my longbow, but I fully understand your point and see your view as I share it as well. Mike likes to put emphasis so much on how we do it because he thinks it is pretty cool, he just has never been on "our" side of the looking glass. My hat is truly off to him for getting some trad hunting on t.v., I hope some young guys or gals see it and take it up. We certainly need that. It has never ceased to amaze me how much footage finds the cutting room floor. I have to ask...did anyone like the plaids? I have been into that for quite a while as my uncles started me on it. It's an addiction. When I quite working for Mossy Oak I wanted to show another side, the original. Anyway, sorry for blabbing. I love to read all of your guys' stuff.
Luke
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Slowbowke-
No offense made brother! When I saw the show, I thought the same thing and wondered if people would think it was staged. These days, I think everyone should look closely at what they watch on tv because, truth is, most of it is crap. I don't even subscribe to those channels anymore, and I don't get vs anymore due to the dtv thing. Most of it was putting a bad taste in my mouth about the whole modern hunting scene. I feel that Mike Hanback at least tries to show the real side of things and a lot of people can relate. I always see a lot of things that I wish I would have done or said differently after watching my hunts. I worry about portraying the right image/views of our passion and not be abrasive.
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Luke,
Where are you sourcing the plaids? I like em. Thanks for the burke ranch link via email a while back.
Brad Finegan
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How many times did someone use the word "awesome" or say "That's what it's all about"!?
I figure a guy could get good & plastered in well under 2 hours if he watched hunting shows
he took a shot every time someone said "awesome"!...
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Luke,
I too think Mike is one of the best out there no matter his weopon choice, and i see no need for you to defend yourself in any way, it was great footage and it is great to show the traditional side of hunting... two thumbs up.
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Luke,
Thanks for the response. I like most of what Mike does as well. I just get annoyed when most of the TV types act as though it is so unusual to kill something with a trad bow. I understand they are pushing product, but "that's a great buck...for a long bow..." just ticks me off!
I love the plaids. I bet that did piss off some of the sponsors though :thumbsup: And letting the wind be your scent control--egads, man we can't sell that!
As to the directors cut, I can't understand why they cut so much out, yet play the same sequence over and over in the final cut. That seems to be the standard formula these days and it sucks. I haven't decided if they are stupid or just lazy, but I am about ready to do what you did and drop the channels altogether. If it weren't for the rare occasion when they show segments like yours, most of the "hunting" shows wouldn't amount to a hill of beans.
Sorry for the rant. Keep us posted if you are going to be on again!
Russ
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Man, stupid vs and dtv, why cant they get along, Luke you sound like a good guy! To bad I couldnt watch it! I am a aspiring tv host myself, lol. If you are bored and you want something interesting to watch check out my youtube channel!(www.youtube.com/user/Guitararcher) I do everything myself- by choice, adds to the challenge. Although I love the over the shoulder angle! Hard to get when you film yourself!!!
As far as Barta, I think you guys will be seeing a totally different Best and Worst of Barta, his whole philosiphy has changed, you might even see him with a rifle. For those that dont know, he is paralized from the chest down, something called a spinal infraction, and he is in a wheel chair! I feel terrible for him. Being the healthy man he was!
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That was a good show. Great shot Luke.
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Luke, I made the switch to plaids and wool myself for this past deer season(except for very early archery when it was 92degrees here in southern Fl.)To me they are much more comfortable and blend in very well where I hunt.
The true test for the plaids will be hunting turkeys this spring!
Great show, I would love to see the full version unedited. I felt it represented the traditional side of bowhunting very well.I hope you do another one.
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you have guts, going turkey hunting with plaids! Well I suppose it depends, do they supposeatly see just shades of gray like deer are suppose to?
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Bfinegan-
I have gotten most of my plaids via fleabay in the past...pedletons, woolrich's...I had to look for over 7 years to find that jacket I wore on the show....good news is that my friend Rob Tiberio out of NJ is making plaid wools now as "Classic Bowman Sporting Woolens", I actually just sent him that jacket to try and duplicate it's vintage color. Good guy,trad all the way. The wools on the last TBM was his work.
ND Terminator--you forgot "That's what I am talking about" and "freak nasty, baby!". I agree with you. But don't try the drinking thing, makes for a rough day the next day! love the license plate....
rabbit-buster-- Thanks, friend.
30 Coupe- I hear you. I have been dealing with that "with or for a longbow, recurve..." crap for a long time. Funny, really. Funny too, what you said about the wind thing...truth. I have tried to address that during some hunts and wow does it get lost. Look who the biggest advertisers are and who they have buffaloed. heh, heh.
Chris S.- I'll check out the link, thanks. And the Barta thing....love him or hate him, that sucks. He makes no excuses, I like that.
Thanks RaiderRanch.
Tarponnut- I use plaids in the spring and summer too...just cotton...cabela's makes some nice cotton plaids in great summer/spring colors....so does Powder River, Van Heusen (yes...i know), and columbia. I like the Carharrt pants, what do you wear? and thanks for the compliments. I'll let you know.
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Hey guys, if your looking for some great wool jackets and hats from a trad guy...Rob is the man. e him at [email protected] and later he is working on a website www.calssicbowman.com (http://www.calssicbowman.com) . I am excited that he is bring back this stuff. I know lot of guys will like what he has to offer. I will try to get him to post some more info for those interested.
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Luke, great show, that was one of my favorites all year. Great job in front of the camera and behind the bow!
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Turkeys see color, I will definitely pick my plaid carefully.
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I love that episode! "long live the longbow"
I think I've seen the same episode three times. It's nice to see someone hunting with a longbow and not spouting off about all their great sponsors. Kudos to a great shot and a good show!
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I enjoyed it as well. We need to see more traditional hunting on the outdoor shows. I'm tired of seeing 50 yard shots.
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Luke, that was a dang good show and I'm glad you found this thread. I was really impressed with the footage. Hope to see you in more shows!
Oh yea, I liked the plaid too.
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Luke,
We've probably been bidding against each other on those Pendelton shirts. I love 'em. I recently bought a Woolrich vest for my annual NY bowhunt and those cooler days in northern Fl.
I generally wear Redhead cargo pants in olive or gray.
What brand hat is that? I've been wearing a wool Stormy Kromer the last couple of years.
I'll check out Rob's site. Thanks.
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Thanks everyone. It is nice to know you guys think that hunt was ok. Tarponnut, I'll have to try some Redhead cargos. My hat is a....well I bought it out of 3R a few years back...think they still have it....I like the stormy kromers for warmth for sure. Rob has some nice hats like that, he could prob send you brochure. I have a cool green colors plaid and a awesome pendleton that is my favorite for spring turkeys..the pendletion is more earth tones for next to trees and stuff...those darn turkeys are tough.
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Luke, I know you can take the 'good with the bad'; I believe you handled and expressed yourself far better that most of us could have. The episode was more acceptable that what we have come accustomed to on TV. We don't need to pick it apart. "Ya dun good, Pilgirm". Did you pack up "Shick's Styk" yet? Ha, ha.
Shick
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Here's a link to the video for the hunt being discussed here. Luke you made us trad guys proud!
Long Live the Longbow (http://www.versus.com/remingtons-the-buck-stops-here-with-mike-hanback/videos/long-live-the-long-bow/)
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hey luke, what kind of quiver is on your bow?
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Im glad you posted Luke I to love your plaids and hat really good show got on the dvr just watched it last night and came across this thread and said to myself I wonderd if you were on here anyway good job man. :clapper:
Jake
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Shick-your bow IS lonely for you, so I guess so. still haven't checked those pics on that thread yet...next up
Thanks Wally and Jake, appreciate that.
Hawk22...My uncle used to make those quivers back in the 90's...tough to find now and he doesn't do it anymore (except for his favorite nephew, ha ha). I found one on **** a while back and bought it even. It amazes me how many emails I get about that quiver. It truly is a magnificent design: easy on off, gentle on the bow, and quiet...and looks good. He got disgusted with the big name quiver dudes trying to copy his and stuff and quit doing it. I am trying to talk him into doing it again. Thanks for asking.
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longbowwally, thanks a ton.
Luke, awesome, the one thing I like about a longbow over a recurve is that there is no string slap. When you shot is sounded like someone thumped a carpet or something lol. It was really quiet. Good shot, and a great deer!
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Luke well done! I appreciate the way you reacted after the shot. Quiet thankfulness and appreciation of the moment speaks volumes to me. I fear chest pounding and the like is not helping our image. Again, well done.
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I like the carpet thud of a longbow too, Chris...one definately notices no slap. Its is a very cool sound that only our "gangs" can appreciate I think.
Thanks elknutz! I agree with you fully about the reactions we are seeing after the shot...if it is natural, then hey, knock yourself out...problem is we see the same guys time after time trying to act like they are "pumped" or whatever and it is crap...the "treestand orgasms" are ridiculous and don't shine well on us....agreed. I purposely try not to act that way, thanks for noticing. smalls steps i guess.