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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bowjangle on September 12, 2009, 11:54:00 PM

Title: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Bowjangle on September 12, 2009, 11:54:00 PM
How many of you shoot 8-12" low at deer expecting them to jump the string or also shoot left or right on a quartering deer,expecting them to spin right or left?  I never have, but have had a bunch of deer duck my arrow - under 20 yards -and I shoot only a 48-50 lb bow. One expert said he aimed low to allow for that and had great success and even would also aim farther left or right 8 inches or so, expecting the spin or the deer. How many of you do that and what is your success rate and experience -compared to just shooting at the right spot or shooting pretty low - say at the heart-so if he "squats" to take off- you've still got the top of his lungs? I haven't been able to bring my self to shoot lower than his heart - but decided to take a poll here and see if maybe I should do differently this year.
My bows are never real loud. I've shot with self bows so quiet - and missed- that the deer didn't squat or even know I had shot. He jumped when my arrow hit the bush behind him but went back to eating.   Now I shoot a fiberglass bow usually longbow - and the best still make a little noise - and the deer  hear the slighted "whap" - so maybe how quiet your bow is isn't as big a deal as we think as they either duck in time or don't.
Having said that I've had longbows that "fluttered" like a quail or bird flying off and deer didn't seem to react much to that type noise.
Plan B is to wait til they chomp down on an acorn or corn and let go. It works as they can't hear good when they are "crunching". I tried it and it works - but you can't rely on that very often.
Do you change your tactic depending on how far away the deer is? Let me hear from you guys and lets see what different folks do and what works best!
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Boom Stick on September 12, 2009, 11:58:00 PM
I know people do,  but until I get much more experience shooting at deer,  I couldn't bring myself to read its mind
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: koger on September 13, 2009, 12:07:00 AM
I have killed several deer with a bow,53, and missed twice that many due to not holding low. I always aim at the bottom third of the deers body for the last few years and collect more venison accordingly. I usually take angles into consdideration, aim at the opposite foreleg.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: String Cutter on September 13, 2009, 01:57:00 AM
I hunt 90% on the ground..and I'm planning on shooting for the heart shot. If I miss low, she isn't wounded or not badly .. if I hit my mark, she's taken clean and if she ducks ,its still a good lung shot....I believe in always aiming low and for the other front leg if quartering away.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on September 13, 2009, 05:41:00 AM
Nope. You have just as good a chance they won't move with a quiet stickbow and contrary to what many believe, you CAN shoot em too low.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: mcgroundstalker on September 13, 2009, 06:19:00 AM
I've had deer "jump the string" at 8 and 10 yards. Happens when they are not relaxed or if your bow is loud when shot. Get your bow whisper quiet and hold off on shots when (they) are lookin' at you.

To "aim" where you THINK a deer will be when your arrow gets there is not a good idea. Learn all you can about reading a deers body language. Sometimes weather conditions will assist you in stayin' undetected as you shoot.

I get busted alot. Still lots of fun and worth the time out there. Best Of Luck To You!

... mike ...
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: huey on September 13, 2009, 06:44:00 AM
Speed of sound appox. 1125 fps speed of arrow 150 fps. It will take the arrow aprox. .4 seconds to travel 20 yards. Sound will be there in approx. .05 seconds. A diff. of .35 seconds. I have shot over, under, in front and looks like the arrow is already there before the animal moved. I just missed, shoot where I want to hit gets my vote.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: vtmtnman on September 13, 2009, 06:57:00 AM
When you shoot 8" to the left or right on a quartering deer and it doesn't spin,then what?

Long tracking job.  :knothead:  

Queit you bow,pay attention to the deer and it's mood/body language.If the deer comes in skitish,a fly could just about run it off.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: String Cutter on September 13, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
Biggie I agree that you can hit a deer to low. I cut one across the brisket one time that was just alittle up hill of me. Just knew it was a perfect heart shot  and had the blood trail to prove it...Until 200 yrds later...LOL
I know that deer servived. It was just a flesh wound. And I'm sure it healed up nicely.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: James Wrenn on September 13, 2009, 08:10:00 AM
I always shoot for the heart.If they don't move fine.If they do drop a double lung is fine too.I never hold off the kill area.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Bonebuster on September 13, 2009, 08:23:00 AM
Ditto what James said.

Unless a deer is very close, when they are on red alert, it`s a good time to pass.

Relaxed deer a the best to shoot, and the best to eat.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Don Stokes on September 13, 2009, 08:51:00 AM
Dan Quillian told me he held for the angle of the front leg and the lower body line on very close deer; I can't bring myself to hold quite that low. I shoot for the heart, and hope for heart and/or lungs. A longer range (20 yds. plus) I shoot where I want to hit.

I would never consider holding left or right. Deer do tend to drop at the shot, but who knows where they go from there?
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: longbowben on September 13, 2009, 09:54:00 AM
No way.I shoot a quiet bow aim where i want to hit.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Old York on September 13, 2009, 09:59:00 AM
I'm with James & Don here, aim low, connect with heart or just above it, or lungs on the drop. I also aim straight up the front leg, no farther back! There's a great discusssion with photos about shot-placement over on BowSite.

IMHO, it's  not  just the bow noise, it's fletching and/or broadhead noise too. I've heard enough of it whilst standing behind scoring barricades and shooting archery golf to convince me.

We tend to miss high when we miss, so aiming low increases the chances of a decent hit. Good hunting to all.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on September 13, 2009, 10:31:00 AM
Shoot at relaxed deer. Aim at the spot you want to hit.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: GG on September 13, 2009, 10:44:00 AM
I aim at the bottom of their heart. If they're spooky I aim for the bottom of their chest line. It took a few misses just over their back to realize "aim lower dummy"  :knothead:
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Paul WA on September 13, 2009, 11:54:00 AM
I also aim for the heart, if they dip I get a double lunger..PR
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Chris O on September 13, 2009, 12:02:00 PM
Great question! I was actually thinking about this just recently since I've only shot two deer. The second of these deer ducked as I shot and I just clipped the lower portion of his spine. He was walking and I stopped him so I think it may have been because he was alert.

I'll be watching this thread for more info from the experienced guys.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: ron w on September 13, 2009, 12:16:00 PM
James wrenn said it well. take a heart shoot, if they duck its a lung hit, never shoot outside the boiler room....Also quartering away, don't let the angle get to extreme..
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: George D. Stout on September 13, 2009, 12:17:00 PM
NO!  Shoot at relaxed deer..aim to hit vitals.

However...I'm sure, in the near future, there will be a chart posted that shows degrees of drop by deer according to a "surprise quotient" and it will vary by deer weight, deer front of center, deer age, and amount of surprise that the deer is subjected to.

In addition, the chart will vary according to bow used, the FPS of said bow, type of silencers used on different types of strings, weight of arrow, FOC of arrow, and whether or not one used a recurve or longbow.

Stay tuned.  :saywhat:
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: ishiwannabe on September 13, 2009, 12:57:00 PM
:biglaugh:
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: straitera on September 13, 2009, 01:01:00 PM
Much prefer heart shots. No deer drop since quietening with a feather rest.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: LA Trapper on September 13, 2009, 01:14:00 PM
George, with an explanation like that you need to continue to add titles under your name!!!!!!

 :biglaugh:  

Thanks for the fun.

Billy
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: WESTBROOK on September 13, 2009, 03:45:00 PM
Oh come on George, tell us what ya realy think!  :)

Eric
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Wary Buck on September 13, 2009, 03:53:00 PM
Honestly, I like either:  A-a relaxed, standing deer; or, B-a slowly walking deer.  When deer are super wired, I won't shoot.  

As others have said, there are a couple inches or so at he bottom of the chest that are nonvital.  They may bleed like heck for a while, but it's not a killer.  So I never anticipate that a deer is gonna duck by aiming low, either out of or at the very edge of the vitals.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Morning Star on September 13, 2009, 03:53:00 PM
Keep your bow reasonably quiet, aim at what you want to hit and never second guess it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: BUFF on September 13, 2009, 04:31:00 PM
I aim very low
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Bill Turner on September 13, 2009, 06:32:00 PM
I shoot deer low because I think it is the best shot. I always aim for the bottom third of the body line. If I do my job and they do not "jump the string" dead deer. If they do jump the string, there is a better chance for a double lung hit, and if I shoot too low it is a clean miss. A deer hit high leaves little blood trail and leads to a differcult recovery. Just my opinion but it works for me. "Keep'Um Sharp".
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Landshark160 on September 13, 2009, 07:11:00 PM
If you shoot for center of the lungs on the deer we have around here, you're gonna shoot a bunch through the backstraps.  I aim right on the white hairline where it meets the front leg.  If he drops you get him, if he doesn't, you get him.  It's win, win.  I've lost some deer that were hit too high, but I've never lost a mortally wounded deer that was hit too low.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on September 13, 2009, 07:30:00 PM
I've never lost a mortally wounded deer either.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Fletcher on September 13, 2009, 07:40:00 PM
Maybe it's because I shoot quiet, slow longbows with fairly heavy arrows, but I can't remember the last time I had a deer duck my arrow, even when they were a bit on edge.  I shoot for where I want it to go.  A quiet bow is worth a LOT to me.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Landshark160 on September 13, 2009, 07:45:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
I've never lost a mortally wounded deer either.
Biggie, my point is on a low hit, you either hit them solidly enough to get them, or the wound is superficial.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: trashwood on September 13, 2009, 08:29:00 PM
I certainally think you guys are experienced hunters and know your home ground well.  If I hunted with you oh your home ground I would follow your lead and experience and shoot as you suggest.  

Well I am an experienced bow hunter to.   If you come to hunt my home ground, depending the sytle you hunt, I am going to advise you shot a little bit under the heart if you are in a tree stand and the deer is <= 15 yds are so.  It is OK with me either way you decide.  You will do better if you follow my lead.  

I don't think that all deer are the same or have had the same amount of hunting pressure.  I don't think that shooting low should be a rule.  I do think if a local hunter with a lot of experience that you trust gives you advice, you might consider it. If the advise is a blanket statement I don't know that I would trust the advice so much.  

rusty
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: trashwood on September 13, 2009, 08:38:00 PM
BTW it might be pointed out that all three of the Texas post on this thread have had the same advice   :)    That could mean we know our home areas.

rusty
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: trashwood on September 13, 2009, 09:01:00 PM
If you shoot a quiet bow, please put a recorder with a good quality mic in front of your target at 15yds.  now turn it on.  backup to 15 yds.  take a shot at your target with the recorder in front of it.  now post the recording.  i have never seen a bow that the shot could not be heard easily on the recording

rusty
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: ishiwannabe on September 13, 2009, 09:08:00 PM
I think trashwood hit the proverbial nail on the head. If I were to hunt in Texas, where I have heard tell of skittish deer, I would aim low. I recall the Solana thread...

Around here, if you aim low, you hit low. Above it was mentioned  that quiet bows, relaxed deer all contribute. All good points.

I think this is one of those things that will vary by region, hunting pressure, etc etc.

Know your area, and your quarry, and adjust as needed.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: trashwood on September 13, 2009, 10:08:00 PM
Ishiwannabe good post. Makes sense.  My home area is 150 mile radius around ft worth.  I have not hunted deer in south texas, just pigs and turkey.  south texas deer could well have a different attitude on a 40,000 acre ranch compared a 400 to 500 acre ranch with over  3,000,000 people right next door as it is in north texas   :)     A three year old deer in North Texas has likely been hunted on 4 or 5 different ranches and knows the manufacture and model number of every tree stand made.  

rusty
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Dave Lay on September 13, 2009, 10:22:00 PM
another one here for.. shoot where ya wanna hit. ya gotta watch the body language of the deer, shoot it when its relaxed and looking away if posible, get your bow quiet and it shouldnt be a issue,
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Ausable on September 13, 2009, 10:31:00 PM
Aim a tad low if you can remember to!
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: boznarras on September 14, 2009, 09:37:00 PM
I think I have a system to offset the unpredictable movement of the deer.
I just aim where I want it to hit, and then whatever errors I make in aim, release, etc, as well as the wind and the twigs in the way, allow the point of impact to be "slightly" off the point I aimed at.
If the planets and stars are aligned the variables offset each other, and the deer jumps or squats into the path of arrow.
So I don't need to intentionally introduce any more anticipation of movement.....got it covered.
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: 30coupe on September 14, 2009, 10:10:00 PM
I agree with George.    :readit:
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on September 14, 2009, 10:15:00 PM
Lead a Duck! Aim low on a Carp! Shoot at a deer where you want to hit!

Funny all this coming from a guy who has never shot a deer or duck with his bow!   :D
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Dave Lay on September 15, 2009, 12:24:00 PM
Chris, I never try to stop a walking deer, if it is within 15 yards or so I just shoot them walking, they are un alerted and I have never had one "jump" if it is walking. the compound guys are already drawn and ready, we still have to draw, which is more movement after we have already alerted it....  just my 2 cents..
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: billy shipp on September 15, 2009, 12:33:00 PM
Texas deer are nervous as a long tail cat in a room full of rocking chairs....99% of my misses have been high as a result of deer ducking or dropping down.

I aim for the heart. ....if the deer doesn't move, you still have a heart shot...if it does drop down, you  have a good chance of getting both lungs
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Bill Turner on September 15, 2009, 03:26:00 PM
Right on with the comment on the Solana TG hunt. I was there in 2008 and scored on a nice Texas doe. Course, I've been bowhunting Texas for 20 some years and have seen how Tx. deer react when around feed. Some of our non-Texas tradgangers found out early on just how quick a Texas whitetail can react to the slightest sound. I guarantee you those hunters were aiming low in short order. With that said I also hunt on public land in Oklahoma without the benefit of food, food plots, etc. I still aim for the bottom third of the body and will continue to do so. That is the shot that consistently puts backstrap on my table.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: wingnut on September 15, 2009, 03:46:00 PM
I've taken deer in the north and in Texas.  In Washington, Idaho and Oregon, I shoot em where I want to hit em.

In Texas, I shoot at the hair under the heart and I've never missed one low.

Mike
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: Landshark160 on September 15, 2009, 03:54:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Dave Lay:
Chris, I never try to stop a walking deer, if it is within 15 yards or so I just shoot them walking, they are un alerted and I have never had one "jump" if it is walking. the compound guys are already drawn and ready, we still have to draw, which is more movement after we have already alerted it....  just my 2 cents..
Dave, I wish I could shoot them walking, but I have always had some sort of hangup about shooting them moving.  Just never have been able to get comfortable with the idea.  I always come to full draw just off my face before grunting to stop them.  Then I settle in at anchor.  As long as I aim low, there are no problems.  I guess we all have our different methods of getting the job done.  It's all good.  :campfire:
Title: Re: Do you shoot deer low expecting them to "dip"?
Post by: LCH on September 15, 2009, 08:39:00 PM
I have killed a bunch of deer here in NC I aim for the heart. Just about the only time I have ever missed a deer low was due to the arrow hitting something in flight. LCH