Tonight the U.S. Senate voted to end debate on the nomination of one of the most outspoken animal rights, anti-hunting, and anti- Second Amendment individuals to a high government position. By a 63-35 vote, cloture was invoked and debate stopped on the nomination of Cass Sunstein to serve as the head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA).
Of the 63 senators that voted in favor of Sunstein, an anti-hunter, 22 were members of the Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus, or 42 percent.
The vote was held despite the efforts of Senator Johnny Isakson (R- GA) to place a "hold" on the nomination of Sunstein.
The U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance (USSA) and the National Wild Turkey Federation (NWTF) made this confirmation fight a top priority. These efforts were also aided by many conservation groups from around the nation such as: National Shooting Sports Foundation, Masters of Foxhounds Association of North America, Fur Takers of America, National Trappers' Association, Conservation Force, Shikar Safari Club, Mule Deer Foundation, Delta Water Fowl Foundation, Pope and Young Club, Dallas Safari Club, Whitetails Unlimited, Inc., Houston Safari Club, Texas Wildlife Association, and the Wild Sheep Foundation.
The efforts of those groups and many others were instrumental in persuading Sen. Isakson to attempt placing a "hold" on Sunstein.
"We are disappointed with the outcome of tonight's vote, especially that so many members of the Senate claiming to be pro-sportsman voted in favor of a nominee who has expressed that recreational hunting could be banned," stated USSA President and CEO Bud Pidgeon. "Nonetheless, the USSA and our partners had an obligation to fight this appointment. Sportsmen all across America will clearly be able to see which senators, along with Sen. Isakson, were willing to stand up for them."
The USSA and others argued for weeks that Sunstein's views on giving animals standing in court and banning recreational hunting would pose an intolerable threat to sportsmen given the critical position the OIRA has in the implementation of all federal rules.
If it says CSC they are also members of the Congressional Sportsmens' Caucus
Akaka- Hawaii
Baucus- Montana CSC
Bayh- Indiana
Begich- Alaska CSC
Bennett- Colorado
Bennett- Utah CSC
Bingaman- New Mexico
Boxer- California
Brown- Ohio
Burris- Illinois
Byrd- W Virginia
Cantwell- Washington
Cardin- Maryland
Carper- Deleware
Casey- Pennsylvania CSC
Collins- Maine CSC
Conrad- N Dakota CSC
Dodd- Connecticutt
Dorgan- N Dakota CSC
Durbin- Illinois CSC
Feingold- WI
Gillibrand- NY CSC
Gregg- NH CSC
Hagan- NC CSC
Harkin- Iowa CSC
Hatch- Utah CSC
Inouye- Hawaii
Johnson-South Dakota CSC
Kaufman- Deleware
Kerry- Massachusetts
Kohl-Wisconsin
Landrieu- Louisiana CSC
Lautenberg- New Jersey
Leahy- Vermont
Levin- Michigan
Lieberman- Conn
Lugar- Indiana
McCaskill- Missouri
Menendez- N Jersey
Merkley- Oregon
Mikulski- Maryland
Murray- Washington
Nelson- Florida
Nelson- Nebraska CSC
Reed- Rhode Island
Reid-Nevada
Rockefeller- WV CSC
Sanders- Vermont CSC
Schumer- New York
Shaheen- N Hampshire
Snowe- Maine CSC
Specter- Pennsylvania
Stebenow- Michigan CSC
Tester- Montana CSC
Udall- Colorado CSC
Udall- N Mexico CSC
Voinovich- Ohio
Warner- Virginia
Whitehouse- Rhode Island
Wyden- Oregon
I'm telling you boys and girls...I know most of you haven't voted very much if at all in your lifetime. You never thought it was important.
Well, you are reaping what you've sown now.
The people above, who say they are members of the Sportsmens' Caucus, have lied. They were members of the Sportsmens' Caucus when it could get them something- but when the chips are down they're just selling us out for whatever reason.
Whatever your politics- don't misunderstand me, this isn't about left or right. They're both bad...just plain bad.
Politics has changed- in my father's time politics was for captains of industry, military heroes, educators of merit- people who'd done something with their lives and wanted to give back to the country they felt they owed so much to for their success.
Now they vote for their own pay raises, make laws that you and I have to live with, but excuse themselves from the same laws- Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, and Sexual Harrassment and Discrimination Laws- bet you didn't know your congressman or senator can't be sued for that did you?
Politics is now a business- people go to college to get a degree in political science or law- get out and get started on their path to the gravy train.
Serve up through the ranks and get to congress- spend one term and they get retirement at full pay for life, medical coverage- in short, it's a gravy train.
The only problem with that is they've never so much as balanced a checkbook, let alone ever run anything as complicated as a business or a country before.
Now they decide how billions are spent each day- and like the poor fool who thinks if he has checks left over in his checkbook he just CAN'T be out of money, they're spending our future like drunken sailors on everything that gets them reelected but is not in our country's best interest- only their own.
It's time to take our country back gentlemen.. at the ballot box. Vote every one of these people out of office- and let's get candidates in there who will vote for term limits- eliminate the pension for congress, and make them have to live with EVERY law they make for US.
The mods may want to move this to the politics forum, but I'm telling you it's too important now- very few read that and this is the tipping point, boys and girls...we're there.
It's not going to come in ten years- it's not coming in twenty- it's here now. Make up your minds or you'll be too late.
WELL SAID RAY!!
People need to get up off their a butts and stop this crap that has overtaken our REPUBLIC.
The above listed individuals need to have their phone lines and email boxes filled to overflowing with feedback!
Ray great post, Cass Sunstein has openly stated he will ban recreationl hunting given any kind of a chance.
Nice rant Ray! But I respectfully disagree with you on every point but one and that is people need to vote. But our last election voter turnout was quiet high and we got a good one for a change..And I am a hunter and lover of all that is American. Nice to see some passion Ray maybe it will catch on. :thumbsup:
Ray, its only just begun. The next few years will determine whether you and I....and most of the folks on this site will be able to what we enjoy so much. Join a vocal organization or we will all be golfing!!!!! And VOTE, do some research and VOTE !!!
Though in the end it didn't matter, I'm glad my senators did what's right.
QuoteI'm telling you boys and girls...I know most of you haven't voted very much if at all in your lifetime. You never thought it was important.
I read to right there.
That's a helluva assumption.....
"MY" senator didn't vote in favor. The one I DIDN'T vote for....did.
Have a good evening.
Extreme positioning by the right will IMO eventually energize the silent 80% that have no strong feelings about hunting to become anti.
Keep up the mantra that demonizes ALL alternative ways of looking at hunting and eventually you will lose that right for all of us. If you look into the history of protecting the right to hunt and our game species you might be surprised by what you find. And its not fear that drives everything positive regarding hunting policy.
Joshua
Ray..thanks for the heads up..I know who is NOT getting my vote..again.
Nobody I voted for is on that list...Yes I DO Vote, never missed one since turning 18 (26 short years ago)...
Fellas, if you voted, obviously the one little sentence in there about voting doesn't apply to you specifically. I didn't intend for all 21,000 members of TG to read this and say "he's talking about ME!" There's a bunch of people on this site, and in society in general it DOES apply to.
The way you know that is simple- look at your local bow club, or state bowhunting organization and tell me how many vote in those elections?
Voter turnout is low compared to the eligible population.
I disagree with you, Joshua. It's not extreme positioning to try to preserve hunting - It's extreme positioning that causes someone to say animals have the same rights as people and that hunting in all its forms should end.
What course in logic did you take?
I think the demon just got voted into his position of power- Cass Sunstein is a FREAK with a capital F, Joshua.
You'd better start concentrating on canoeing, rafting, ice hockey and art appreciation- those will soon be your only recreational options.
Patrick- if we got a good one, howcome he's so poor with math? 2 trillion dollars in additional deficit spending just "slipped up on him" - 32 czars appointed in a republic- who have no oversight on their activities and millions of dollars at their disposal for "what"? 210,000 jobs lost in August- 2 million + this year- 9.8 percent unemployment and heading higher- when we were told if we let him spend the money in January we were promised unemployment wouldn't go over 8 percent.
I don't know where you get your facts, sir...but voter turnout wasn't much different in this election than it was in the last three.
There were many, many millions of people who did not vote in the last election. Obama didn't win by a landslide. A million votes more and things might have turned out completely different.
Like I said, it's not about left or right...it's about bad vs good. Not good for me, or good for you, but good for the US.
Mimicking European socialism isn't good for the US- it's the US that's supposed to lead the world in thought and deed- not duplicate the failed experiments of others.
Some boys from Utah will be gettin a call tomorrow, and they won't be gettin a vote come next go around.
Oh and by the way, yes I do vote, and yes I call them bastards on a regular basis letting them know what I think about the job they are doin.
Thanks for the heads up Ray!!!
I have NEVER missed a vote... Even local schoolboard special ballots. Me and 58 million others indeed got it right last November. Our grandkids, grandkids will never be able to pay back all this money.
Too many died for my right to walk in and punch a hole in the card.
Hunting will never end. Maybe legal hunting will...?
Im glad this was posted. And I am proud to say I use my power and I vote!
EVERYONE SHOULD.
The logic course I took is the one that tells me when you choose to vilify someone who shares the same interests as you, and therefore wants to protect them just like you do, you have a serious perspective problem.
I'm talking about you Ray.
I just have an opinion that differs from yours. Throwing insults my way only dishonors your own position. Exactly the attitude that only serves to divide us.
Joshua
I can not beleive that there are those out there that still talk of balance, understanding and tolerance. We are losing our country to that very mantra. The left only tolerates, understands and balances what they believe in and all other ideals are succesptible to elimination. At this very moment we have people in Washington that influence the president that think Animals and trees has legal rights in court and I still here sportsmen speak about tolerance and we should avoid going to far to the right. We get what some have voted for and our rights are being taken away. Gun ownership is in question, hunting is in jeopardy, liberties are dissappearing and or debt is higher than ever and yet we are supposed to remain forever tolerant. The group in power now are many of the same group that spit on our Viet Nam vets. I grow tired of tolerance and understanding and embracing leftist veiw points to bring balance to our country. But I am little pissed so I guesss I am an extremist right winger.
Ray for Prez!!! Do I have a second? :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
As a side note I heard on the radio today where they have a bill pending here that says the lawmakers actually have to read and understand a bill before they can vote yes on it!!! That's gonna take a few of'em out of the voting picture...
Joshua, the extremism is on the left side. (I just removed the rest of what I had to say along that line...too explicit.)
Our Constitution is under attack including the right to bear arms. The right to hunt will be lost soon if we don't start getting involved. These people will not rest until they have everything and everone under government control.
If you didn't vote, then you'd better start voting. Get involved. Write and call your congressman and senators, go to the local wildlife meetings. Join and support your state's bowhunting organization. I just got back from a family reunion in Kentucky where I had lots of conversation about current politics. Someone said something like, "Well we can't make any difference". Later that day one of the extremist in the administration resigned under heavy pressure from concerned and involved patriots of this country. I hope they saw the connection.
Another thing that is often ignored is that we should support youth groups involved with the outdoors, and for gosh sakes TAKE SOMEONE HUNTING who has never hunted before.
I've never missed a vote, but sorry to say a lot of hunters vote sporadically if at all...or do so without the facts I'm afraid.
It does not surprise me that Ben Nelson of Nebraska, the Democrat who says he votes for Nebraska and not his party, voted for cloture. I swear every day he comes out of his bunker, wets his finger, and puts it up in the air to see which way the wind's blowing. Which is not my definition of a leader.
Of course this same guy, who does do some gunhunting, used to share permission on ground years ago that one of my brothers did. Whenever he wanted to hunt it, all the others who had permission were denied entrance before and during so Nelson could have it to himself.
JHG, respectfully, could you please explain what "alternative ways of looking at hunting" are worth considering?
Yes David, I seconded it. Ray's done well with starting this thread.
2fletch beat me to the " Attack on the Constitution". Just about everything that is going on in Washington right now is UNCONSTITUTIONAL and they will have to be called on it eventually.
It will start and hopefully end at the ballot box peacefully and reasonably. VOTE THEM ALL OUT, it is not about democrat or republican, how about putting some AMERICAN PATRIOTS in office for a change. Someone who will honor and defend the Constitution. God bless my 9th grade civics teacher !!!
I started not to post on this thread as it may get pretty ugly. We can agree to disagree and try to keep this respectful folks ! JMHO
nocams :readit:
Ray, Thanks for posting this.
Davo, I too am tired of understanding, tolerance, and Political correctness. The rewards go to those who are willing to EARN them and not those who simply WANT them. Let the free market take care of itself. More government only means less freedom!
This is the chicken/egg all over again.
You could claim extreme positioning is required to maintain our priveleges (not rights - as far as hunting is concerned) in this dire time of need (albeit it's possibly a perception issue). Others will claim your extreme positioning is going to eventually light a fire under the OVERWHELMINGLY silent (or apathetic) majority (and sway them against hunting).
I don't think the former is right....and I hope the latter isn't.
This may wake up some people...if it is not already too late. Anyone who thinks what has happened to this country since January is good is part of the problem.
Ray, you got it 100 percent right. I am one of those few who do vote. I did not vote for the senator who voted for this Freak, nor did I vote for the "chosen one." I understood what he meant by change, and it made me want to vomit. I am afraid for my country, my children and my grandchildren. He has begun that change even more rapidly than I could have imagined. He, along with the helpful hand of Congress is putting into place all those things it will take to bring down a great nation.
The Second Amendment is there to protect us not from bears or burglars but from an all-powerful government. Our forefathers recognized that because they had felt the sting of a tyrant's whip. Apathy is about to hand that whip back to a new and much more cunning tyrant.
Thanks for the post Ray.
Thanks for the info, Ray. I'll be talking to a few folks I pay.
homebru
What I find amazing about this is the timing of the vote. They did this vote right before the President had his speech before congress tonight. I wonder if these elected officials voted for him because they new that the health care debate would overtake the nation and that the ordinary uninformed citizen would not realize what just happened.
I fought for your right to have that opinion and would do it again. You will never here a liberal say that. Being wrong does not make you a villain it just makes you wrong. Joshua God bless you but you cannot have it both ways. Ray is right in this case although you may be offended you are not. Your difference of opinion as you say is little beyound what size broadheads to use it is about chosing the leader of the free world and the insane idiots he surronds himself with.
This thread is both amazing and eyeopening.
I am surprised that there is anyone that would combat anything that Ray said. Preach on brother, preach on.
I for one will continue to sound off about this (Ass.
I have to say as a regular independant voter who votes in local and national election, and has helped protect our freedome thru service to his country. We can all stop worrying about the shooting match that is coming. Socialist want to take your freedoms and a whole bunch of idiots voted some real knuckleheads into office.
The apathetic masses will stay apathetic and useless while their freedoms is voted away by morons who sell them a bill of goods on their Tv's. Every society dies! Agustus Ceasar stated that " Once a society learns it can vote itself comfort from the government treasury, that society is dead". Guess what. We are way past that point.
America is dying, all societies do. Read history book. It may or may not happen in our lives but America is headed down the road to extinction and it will be a big ugly shooting match until something else comes along to replace it. Can we turn it around, yes. For a short period of time and then the slide continues. Our society lost it's moral center during the Vietnam War. The same knuckleheads who protested and did drugs now run this country.
Leaves no real questions as to why we are so divided and conquerable by our own government. You should be prepared for what is coming, and dang sure be teaching your children how to fight the eventual fall and to be capable of handling what comes to all great societies at their end.
History is about to repeat itself.
An armed society is perforce a polite society. An unarmed society is a society of slaves.
Great Post Ray...Agree 100%.
Joshua.....get over it. Why are you being so sensitive that you mmmmmiss the whole point???
I'm one of the silent political activists who decided several years ago to vote my OWN party. The Anti-Incumbent party. They will never vote for term limits but WE have the power to apply them by simply voting against any incumbent on the ballot.
Ray, You are 100% right...This guy also thinks animals can have a lawyer...Man if that's the case we may all be serving time...He thinks Rat's have a right to live..."Well it does show in our goverment"
Sustein will have no impact on hunting. Barack Obama taught constitutional law for many years so I'll take him over anyone here when it comes to the constitution :)
I agree with you 100% Ray!!! I call and write congressmen from other states, (including the two REPUBLICANS who prevented a national concealed carry law to go through!) and regularly send out group emails for others to do likewise. Now IS the time to FIGHT to preserve our rights or it won't be that they took our rights-it'll be that we gave them away!
What more proof does anyone need what with all his "Czars", his demanding salary information on CEO's and Board Members, amidst discussions of limiting executive pay, that Obama is truly governing from the leftist camp of Wright, Ayers et al?! Nobody would attend a church for 20 years while not supporting the beliefs of it's pastor!
Ray is right the heck on.
One of my moron Senators, George Voinovich - a pretend republican - reportedly voted for cloture last night. I've already called his office to voice my disgust. If true, I will actively vote against this traitor every chance I get.
Brother Ray,
You have said something that needed saying! Good on ya man!
To the rest of the lemmings,
Wake up before it's too late! We are getting close now.
I seriously think this country is heading for another civil war. When it gets too bad, the citizens will clean house. Americans own guns to ensure that the government doesn't get too stupid. Guess what?
I have a question.
How many here wrote to their Senators before the vote took place?
The USSA and many other groups has been sending out warnings for sometime about this vote. They warned everyone what could happpen if this nut case was voted in. It takes more than voteing. You need to be involved all the time, don't wait until after the vote to complain.
I have written both of my Senators and let them know how I feel, and I am ashamed of them both.
Get out there and get involved now. It is not to late.
QuoteOriginally posted by bravedeer:
Sustein will have no impact on hunting. Barack Obama taught constitutional law for many years so I'll take him over anyone here when it comes to the constitution :)
Wow. So because a Socialist may or may not have taught a class on what he wishes the Constitution said - you take his word for what it says? Read it yourself - it takes very little time and is written clearly enough for all of us to understand.
For anyone that hasn't read it in a while, you can do so here: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
The constitution does not ban socialism or we wouldn't have a school system in this country. You can try to demonize President Obama by referring to him as a socialist, but all it does is make you feel warm and fuzzy inside, I'm yawning just as much as I was before :)
QuoteOriginally posted by BadgerArrow:
I have a question.
How many here wrote to their Senators before the vote took place?
I don't write anymore, I call. Seems like I just get a form letter in return whenever I write. That's better than not doing anything though. (hint,hint)
QuoteOriginally posted by bravedeer:
I'm yawning just as much as I was before :)
Just like the PMs I sent you back in December during a discussion here about the Tiahrt Amendment and Barack Hussein Obama's views on gun rights.
You claim to be able to discredit the info I sent you, but as of this moment, both PMs still show as unread by you.
You, sir, are nothing more than a troll.
Bavedeer, you are yawning away your future and the future of your family.
I did write both my senators, but I'm not surprised at the votes by either of those anti-gun, anti-hunting sleazeballs. I mean, come on, what else would you expect from Lautenberg and Menendez?
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve in Canton:
What I find amazing about this is the timing of the vote. They did this vote right before the President had his speech before congress tonight. I wonder if these elected officials voted for him because they new that the health care debate would overtake the nation and that the ordinary uninformed citizen would not realize what just happened.
Yup... that's Washington for you. We live in a country that claims to be "Of the people, for the people, and by the people" yet these back-door, late night, stealth votes happen all the time... their like teenagers sneaking around with drugs (which many of them have!) because they KNOW what they are doing is 1. wrong 2. not the will of the majority AND 3. will cost them votes. Its pretty sickenly sad.
BUT we DO need to put some blame on previous administrations for open the unconstitutional doors... The Patriot Act is a vial bill that trumps civil liberties... and what's good for the goose is often good for the gander... so now the new regime will enact their socialist agenda in that spirit, spear-headed by one of the most frightening people in Washington, Nancy Peloci. You can BET she had a hand in this cloture and nomination... she is a wack-job. But I digress...
BOTH my Senators voted for this moron. I have NEVER support either of them. Dodd and Lieberman are the epitome of liberalism, socialism, and wind-checking. BOTH are CAREER politicians and have never thrown a hammer, flipped a burger, or rung a register in their lives. How can these folks possibly represent me and my family?
Enough of that... I plan to write my Senators and the President to express me disgust. Maybe they won't read it, maybe they will, but in this great nation, that is our first weapon of attack, with the coup de grass being the vote.
Screw these guys to tell me or suggest I cannot do something I love to do... :mad:
Oh...
The one thing we have going for us the power of industry... hunting is a billion (if not more) dollar business in this country and corporations like Mathews, Cabelas, Colt, Ruger, Remmington, etc... have a HUGE interest in its legality. I am SURE those businesses will have sway in a city where money and campaign contributions talk...
At least, for the interim, let's hope they do..
QuoteJust like the PMs I sent you back in December during a discussion here about the Tiahrt Amendment and Barack Hussein Obama's views on gun rights.
You claim to be able to discredit the info I sent you, but as of this moment, both PMs still show as unread by you.
You, sir, are nothing more than a troll.
The troll happens to be the person who keeps starting these threads and infusing politics that is irrelevant to hunting. The only reason you fail to call him out on it is because you happen to agree with his politics.
Kohl is so far to the left he can't even see me let alone understand my language. Feingold who knows hes all over the board usally says one thing than does another.
Just a reminder from the title page....
"Expect to be respected if you decide to join the gang, because the rule of respect is held highest of the few rules that apply. Tradgang.com has a zero tolerance for disrespect directed to anyone. If you want to disagree, then please do so in an adult manner. Debate is healthy, as one sword sharpens another, but it must be done in an honorable fashion."
I called both of my Senators yesterday before the vote (yea a bit late but it's better than nothing). When I found out they voted for him, I immediately informed them I will no longer be voting for them in the next election. Mr. Sunstein's beliefs are nearly opposite of mine and most of the people in my state and I can only imagine they voted for him because of party affiliation.
If'n they want to help the economy... loss of hunting privelidges and animal right's is only gonna hurt it with more job loss and more critters to eat everything in sight.
Do the folks in washington even look at the letters we right?
We need to CALL them or show up on their doorstep.
I'm right with you Ray. I posted a post on POWWOW a little while back about Sustein and it got bumped to politics. Hope this one stays here cause it definetly gets more traffic and needs to heard. And I'm right there with the comment someone else made on this thread "legal hunting may stop" but they will have to throw me in a whole somewhere to stop me from hunting. Not just a past time here but a way of survival and provision for filling my families belly. I follow the hunting laws to the T but if they tell me I can't hunt at all then I'll guss I'll be a criminal but I ain't going hungry I can tell you that.
I will pay better attention to who I vote for from now and admittedly have not in the past but find myself very consious of politics over the last several years and did vote for my moral beleifs in the last Election not "Change".
I agree this Country needs change but not the change we are getting. We need to get back to morals and good ol' American Freedom.
Kris
I didn't write my Senators, because I already know where they stand on such issues (NAY!). Wildlife regulation got its start in Mississippi, when Theodore Roosevelt declined to shoot a bear that was presented to him, on the grounds that it was unsportsmanlike, which resulted in the "Teddy Bear" when word got around. Teddy went on to found many of the conservation organizations that protect our wildlife and other natural resources through wise use.
I'm normally an optimistic person, but I despair for the future of our "rights" to do what we wish in a free country, whether it be hunting, fishing, or anything else you can name that someone else thinks we shouldn't do. I hate to say it, but some kind of revolution is coming, whether peaceful (I hope) or not. Things are getting too out of balance, and something will correct it.
We live in a redneck society, and I don't mean that in a disparaging way. Rednecks are merely people who spend enough time outdoors to get some sun- farmers, hunters, foresters, fishermen, gardeners, etc. The redneck element exists in every State. These people, my friends, will never allow hunting to be taken from them, any more than they will register or give up their hunting guns or archery equipment. Bows and arrows, guns and ammunition can be manufactured by individuals, and they will be if a ban happens. If hunting is outlawed, we will become outlaws. I will not stop no matter what the government says, and neither will the majority of real Americans who live in touch with the land, who are still the majority in this country, no matter what CNN says! The news media do not represent the real world as most of us experience it.
God I love the internet.
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Bavedeer, you are yawning away your future and the future of your family.
A quick search of bravedeer's past posts on this forum, as well as a Google search, will quickly reveal that bravedeer has many views that differ from those of most of us here.
After reading his blog, and some of his comments on other websites, I'm not at all surprised by many of his posts here.
It seems to me that bravedeer is not a bowhunter, but rather someone who is using TradGang to spread his liberal views on the world.
Duplicate post.
The sad thing is that we, as hunters, are the minority in political voting. 90% of voters dont hunt or care if a law hurts us hunters. They dont understand what we do. This is where hunter ethics plays a big role. If you are sitting in Mcdonalds with blood on your clothes and a deer laying in the bed of your truck for all to see. The non hunter sitting beside you thinks "What a moron, That animal didnt do anything to him". The next vote they will remember that day in mcdonalds. We have to do everything we can to swing the non hunter votes........Roy
QuoteOriginally posted by bravedeer:
The troll happens to be the person who keeps starting these threads and infusing politics that is irrelevant to hunting. The only reason you fail to call him out on it is because you happen to agree with his politics.
Actually, the politics are in fact, quite relevant to hunting.
Great post Ray!! Sad that some folks just don't get it.