I always find broadhead conversations interesting and usually follow all the discussions on here that come up.
Even though I'm pretty seated in two particular heads (Woodsman for big game and 160 Snuffers for turkeys) I always like to scope the field. Always interested in a head that makes the biggest cut with the best penetration.....
Being a fan of lots of cutting surface, I thought I'd do a little experiment with some of the heads I have that qualify in that respect. Just for kicks I ran some heads through paper and made some cut measurements by adding the length of each blade together.
I should mention these heads were sharpened enough to hunt with, so they are a hair shy of out of the box width.
Total cutting surfaces.....
Magnus I (single blade) = 1.5"
Wensel Woodsman (original) 1.5"
160gr Snuffer = 2.25"
Muzzy Phantom (4 blade)= 2.25"
Just some random thoughts.....
Even being picky with my arrow tuning, I was never able to get those Magnus 1's to fly great. Nice to know the Woodsman has just as much cut.
Never had much luck with consistently making 2 holes with 160 Snuffers on deer......dead deer, typically just 1 drain hole though. It was interesting to see the Phantom has just as much cut as the Snuffer, but a lower profile. I think I'm gonna give the Phantom SS a run on a couple whitetails this season. It really seems like a solid well made head.
:campfire:
Try the Ace 200gr heads.....
I too like these type of conversations - very interesting
Hey bud, What's your set-up?
Just wondering cause as you know I'm a fan of 160's myself and I don't think I've ever not had two holes unless I smashed the opposite shoulder...
63#'s with 560-580gr arrows
58#'s with 530gr arrows
both with about 260 grains up front
all have been broadside or slight quartering....
QuoteHey bud, What's you set-up?
I shoulda put that in there....
I'm shooting 56# with 625gr total arrow weight. I know I'm close to getting them punched through, but my elbow just won't tolerate anymore lbs.
Probably should note, all my Snuffer 160 kills came from tree stands. I know that makes it tougher to get through hitting those thick upper ribs.
I like trying different heads so play with a lot.My take is pretty much like yours on the magnus one and big snuffer.
I shoot lighter bow weights and the 160 snuffer is a bit much.I use the simmons when I want really big cuts.It is the only wide cut head that really fly well for me and peitrates real easy in deer and hogs.I use the 3 and 4 blades like woodsman,stingers and phantoms the rest of the time.
Hmmm...I would think at your draw weight and especially your arrow eight you should be getting through....
All of mine have been from treestands as well.....
Those are all good bh's that I would use in a heartbeat, including James' big Simmoms...
I just have such good results with Snuffers and WW(hogs) that I don't have any reason to change.
I agree with Guru.When I shot 50lb bows I had no trouble with the snuffer on deer.Now with a bad shoulder and 10lbs less bow weight I have to be more selective on what I put on the end of my arrow. ;) With your setup I would not give using one a second thought.
but than again, why not, if you think your getting as much cuttin surface from the muzzy phantom? perhaps you'll get better penetration and good holes...
I used phantoms on a bull and was pleased, though I haven't gone back for whatever reason.
You know, have been member of this site for years. I must admit that I am impressed with the traditional following. It would appear that we are the only ones who are fanatical about our broadheads as well as sharpness. Kudos to all of us traditional (ethical) hunters.
Wow! I guess the compounders are the (unethical) ones. I just love it man. I had a few things typed up here but I am just going to leave it at this because I would just assume not throw this thread way off track.
Interesting! Due to wearing out my shoulder years ago in the construction business I shoot anywhere from 42-50# bows. I have always shot the Ace 160 and the zwickey 2-blade heads. On the last eight or so deer I have shot, I have had complete pass throughs and easy blood trails. In the last 15 years I have lost one really nice buck that I believe I only caught one lung on a quartering away shot when it went into a very large deep water swamp. Can't really blame that on the broadhead.
Try the 145 snuffer ,worth the shot.And what is you sharpening method?
I have been shooting Mag I heads for years and lately been shooting snuffers a lot. I have no trouble with the magnus flight but I do shoot big feathers and bareshaft my arrows.The last 5 or 6 critters I`ve killed with snuffers have all at least got the broadhead out the other side and I only shoot between 45-50 pounds a 27". I know that if I stay out of the shoulder I will do good on deer from a stand with the snuffers I believe but I must stay focused on shot placement.I must say that the critters I`ve killed with the snuffer did not go far at all. No notes or official measuring but I would say probably half the distance of my average two blade recovery.Not knocking two blades I love`m and have killed tons of stuff with them.
I`m also a fan of the Big Simmons Mr. Wrenn spoke of. They were my go to heads for a while but I`m about out of them now.
If I were hunting Elk or 250 lb Northern Deer I may opt for a smaller head but with these 150 lb deer around here I`ll stay with some that cut big. A lot of people ask why I shoot big broadheads and light pounds on pigs and the simple truth is I have no desire to kill a BIG hog. I got a couple on the wall already and in all honesty they ain`t good to eat unless its a sow and I have never killed a sow that had a sheild. I know of a few that have but it ain`t common.Is a 160 snuffer out of a 48 pound longbow with 525 grain arrow good for big boars...I doubt it, but it works great on grill pigs. I have went to the 145 grain snuffer shooting 11 grains per pound and like the results. I do carry a Mag I that has been filed Simmon style in my quiver in case a big Blue or Red Boar shows up . I been wanting one of them.
The phantom does cut a big hole and are fine heads as well. A whole lot of quality broadheads out there these days.Ain`t we lucky.RC
In all honesty and I have to say this. If a fella has always used small two blades he will have followed some decent blood trails and had success I`m sure but does not know what he is missing till he trails up a snufferized deer.RC
This season I have some WW that I am going to try out of a 48# bow. The arrows weigh about 550gr. I had a problem with sharpening them at first until I tried the grinder method with a crock stik, shaving sharp now. If I can't get complete penetration it will be back to the Ace 160's.
QuoteOriginally posted by RC:
In all honesty and I have to say this. If a fella has always used small two blades he will have followed some decent blood trails and had success I`m sure but does not know what he is missing till he trails up a snufferized deer.RC
Todd: If you go to the Bowsite you'll usually see at least one very heated broadhead debate on the first page of the main forum. Pretty much any general bowhunting forum is the same way. Bowhunters are bowhunters, and stickbow shooters certainly don't have a corner on the broadhead discussion market...or ethics for that matter.
RC: One of my best hunting partners shoots a compound and large mechanical heads that would make a 160 Snuffer look tiny. I've walked more of his blood trails than I can remember. They're generally a small bit heavier than mine, but no shorter and no easier to follow.
Tunning is the key w/ 160 snuffer.I once had a 68lbs bow that I never got tuned really well and shot a deer at 17yrds w/ a 160 snuffer.Went 10'' into the ribcage.My total arro # 720grs.Later that season killed 2 deer w/ a 48lbs @ 27'' and 160 snuffer on a 550gr arro.Both arros had to pull them out of the groung.I had this bow shooting bareshafts out to 35yrds.
I plan on trying out the snuffer 160's this fall. I am shooting around 55 foot pounds so penetration is not an issue. Accuracy is most important to me. I could not get the phantoms to fly well. But they seem like a great head. I have used WW and Zwickey Delta 4bld. on several deer and liked them both. I would use my zwickeys but I got tired of the time it took to sharpen them. WW gets first place for penetration but I think that may have been because I was able to get them sharper than the deltas. I never tire of broadhead debates, the broadhead is just to crucial a part of the bowhunting setup to not get attention.
Hey Michael, I'm with you...I like talk about broadheads too. In the "for what its worth" department; I agree with ya'll in shooting the biggest bhs that you can consistantly get out the other side. I use to shoot Bear Razorheads (with bleeder blades) back in the 70's and if I got a passthru (or at least the bh thru), I normally got great bloodtrails (with "proper" hits). Started using other bhs because I could get them sharper or they came sharper from the package. Used replaceable blade broadheads and compound bows for a while. I had problems with blades falling out and breaking off, bending, etc, even with good hits. When I came too my senses and came back to trad bow hunting, 2 blade Zwickey, Ace, and Magnus were mostly what I used. I got great penetration but I noticed that sometimes the bloodtrails were not what I got with the ole Bears with bleeder blades. Went back to Bear Razorheads (screw-in style with the blue aluminum ferrel). They bent so bad that I went back to the 2 blades. After many years, I got some old Bear "greenie" Razorheads. No bending like the "newer" ones. The difference in bloodtrails was noticeable. Then I shot a big old doe a few years back. The bleeder blade bent 90 degrees instead of breaking off. It was like putting the breaks on. No exit wound, no blood trail. Lucky to find her. Next I tried single bevel Zwickeys with matching fletching on wooden arrows. Didn't get a deer with one (I did get a vine and an oak tree!) but tried one out on a nice buck a buddy rifle killed. Shot the deer hanging up by his hind legs at 10 or so yards. Trying to hit him in the shoulder blade. Shot a little low and hit it where the leg and shoulder blade meet. I was able to wiggle the broadhead back and forth and pull it out. It only penetrated the length of the broadhead. Oh well.... :rolleyes: I now shoot Zwickey 4 blade Eskimos, Woodsman or old/new MA-3 broadheads. I haven't taken a deer with the MA-3 yet, but they fly great and like the Woodsman, they are so easy to sharpen. (oh, BTW; I've used file sharpened and honed bhs...both have worked great for me). I only shoot 45 lbs or so and hunt deer from treestands so "finding" the right combo of cutting width and penetration has been a "hunt" of its own. Thanks for "listen" to me ramble on and on and.... :jumper:
QuoteThe bleeder blade bent 90 degrees instead of breaking off. It was like putting the breaks on. No exit wound, no blood trail.
That's one thing that's always made me leary of heads with bleeder blades. Bent on entry...... I always felt they'd surely have to slow the arrow down.
It's one of the reasons I like the Woodsman head so much, multiple solid blades.
These Phantoms have bleeders, but they are a very heavy blade. Looks like they could be the ticket in that respect.
Have talked to some seasoned bowhunters and they all say the same thing if you get a passthrough its great but if you put a big old snuffer and it does not passthrough they all say the same thing it cuts there insides up and is a just as lethal especially with a Snuffer that is sharp!! :thumbsup: :campfire:
Single bevel Zwickeys?
yup, snufferize em. If it doesn't go all the way through that's fine, it'll keep doin its thing until the pileup. Follow the red leaf road.
QuoteFollow the red leaf road.
:D :thumbsup:
Maybe I am resistant to "change",, LOL..
I have used Zwicky Eskimos for years with nothing but positive results. On a new set up I actually tune my arrows shooting the Zwickys. I achieve perfect arrow flight. I spend the time getting them scary sharp. I have never failed to have a pass through shot with Zwickys on bear and deer. I like walking upright down the middle of two blood trails...
What ever broadhead you shoot. Sharpen it until you are afraid of it and get it to fly perfectly.
Good luck to all this coming season.
John III
Guys,
i love these threads and try to read them all.
How do you guys test your W.Woodsmans to see if they are sharp? I know about the shaving hair test and the rubber band test, but they just never seem as sharp as my 2 blade heads? or i just cant tell. i read another post that the angle makes a diiference on the way the "feel" but i need to make sure they are ready to hunt with. any advive or help on this would be great.
QuoteHow do you guys test your W.Woodsmans to see if they are sharp?
I've always just used the shave test. If you can lay a blade on your arm and shave clean without drawing the blade in a cutting fashion......you got it. You might have to change the angle you hold it, but you can easily feel where it starts to bite when it's truely sharp.
Thanks Mike
I have to admit I'm a huge Snuffer fan myself. I play with different head but when season starts the big 160 snuffers in my quiver. when you add the full screw in adaptor you get about a 215 grain head. I have found that when I put on 3 or 4 5.5 shield cut feathers on they Shoot great. I saw it once written "They don't suffer with a snuffer!"
If I could get a snuffer as sharp as Ron gets a grizz...I'd likely be shooting one this year. I get them to cut a rubber band with ease...but theres that next level. Perhaps for my deer this year.
Just bought the Eclipse 125 gr with 22 gr inserts (about 150 gr head) single bevels for the season... on test flights, they group as well as field points and no noise at all. Plus they have destroyed my targets!! That "s-shaped" cut was clearly noticeable on foam and rubber which denotes the continued rotation during penetration. All the exit holes (and yes some of the arrows passed through the target in weaker areas) displayed that "s-shaped" hole... I think they will be very effective on deer this season!
QuoteOriginally posted by elkbreath:
If I could get a snuffer as sharp as Ron gets a grizz...I'd likely be shooting one this year. I get them to cut a rubber band with ease...but theres that next level. Perhaps for my deer this year.
I will second that one...Ron really know how to sharpen a Grizzly!! I have a cut on my arm to prove it :readit: