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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: AdamH on August 14, 2009, 05:35:00 PM

Title: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: AdamH on August 14, 2009, 05:35:00 PM
Any of you sharpen your Snuffers the way it decribes it on the back of the package, with a 14'' Mill Bastard File ? Thank You ...
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: fireball31 on August 14, 2009, 05:44:00 PM
yup. and then I polish with a stone
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 14, 2009, 05:56:00 PM
i used to do it the hard way now i use a snuffer tamer kit...works fantastic...changes the degree of edge and makes them very sharp...after i am done i harden them and they are pretty much gonna take a hit into any bone and not be phased.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Grabwad on August 14, 2009, 06:02:00 PM
How do you harden them?
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: joe skipp on August 14, 2009, 06:25:00 PM
I use a 10 mil bastard file, 25-30 strokes per side then finish them up on a ceramic stick. Nice and sharp....
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: nurayb on August 14, 2009, 06:42:00 PM
No, I just sharpened some up for my trip to WY for antelope next week.  I clamp a big aggressive 14 inch file to the bench and run the head lengthwise along it about 30 or 40 times per side to set an edge, then use a fine diamond stone then a ceramic stick then strop it on cardboard.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: michaelschwister on August 14, 2009, 07:20:00 PM
I just use a 6"mill bastard file and ever lighter pressure, they pop hair easy and really lay down a blood trail.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 14, 2009, 09:18:00 PM
hardening is done several different ways...easiest is heat the b/h until its slighty glowing then dip it in oil...thats the easiest way.you can grind a head all day on a milling file and it still doesnt change the angle of the bevel which is the only way i have found to work in getting them razor sharp.i used to think they were sharp with the milling bastard until i was told about the snuffer tamer
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: leatherneck on August 14, 2009, 10:27:00 PM
Snuffer Tamer is the easiest way to sharpen them. Been using one since it's conception and they work great. And I'm challenged when it comes to sharpening.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Bowmania on August 14, 2009, 11:42:00 PM
Elkherder, I think you have harding and softing mixed up.  I once ran into a batch of very hard MA-3's.  YOU couldn't cut them with a mill basterd file.  I heated them up and then I could sharpen them.  

I'd like to hear someone else comment on your idea.  I think your detempering the metal.

Bowmania
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 15, 2009, 12:00:00 AM
heating then rapid cooling hardens steel.....google it
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 15, 2009, 12:23:00 AM
google up flame hardening bow
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: anchorman on August 15, 2009, 06:28:00 AM
Not to get away from the real question here, but is this tamer the two files on a board with pre-set angles? Yes, I use a 14" file then use a stone or a diamond file then use a leather strap for  hair popping sharpness.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Tom Leemans on August 15, 2009, 08:53:00 AM
If you file by hand, which I do, Just count your strokes and keep using less pressure and fewer strokes each round. I take a swipe or two down each side with a ceramic stick, just to remove any micro burr when done.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Smallwood on August 15, 2009, 09:30:00 AM
anchorman,
yes it's the two files on a board, it's made by truangle.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: anchorman on August 15, 2009, 09:49:00 AM
smallwood,

I thought that is what is was, the only problem I have with that is after awhile it leaves the point area shaped differently...
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 15, 2009, 02:17:00 PM
specify what you mean by shaped differently
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Morning Star on August 15, 2009, 04:15:00 PM
Communicating with Mike Sohm of Magnus....he'll tell you not to use the Tamer as it weakens the tips.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 15, 2009, 05:13:00 PM
the tamer is the only way to get them razor sharp then you harden them a bit and you're set...i'd like an explanation as to how the tamer weakens the tip any differently than using a file on it.???????
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Steve O on August 15, 2009, 05:29:00 PM
:biglaugh:    

The Snuffer Tamer is NOT the only way to get a Snuffer or for that matter any 3 blade sharp.

It is best not to deal in absolutes, there are PLENTY of people that can get a 3 blade razor sharp and there are many methods.  

SOME people  THINK they are not razor sharp for 2 reasons:

1.  You can't hold a 3 blade at the same angle you can a 2 blade to shave hair off your arm.

2.  The 30 degree angle that is built into the "standard" sharpening method of the Snuffer is much "thicker" than the 22 1/2 degree angle the snuffer tamer changes it to.  This is also  similar to the edge of the two blades that people think are so sharp.  The 30 degree angle is much tougher and more durable that a more acute angle.  A razor is a razor and just because a thinner angle "feels" sharper does not make it so.

I use a bench grinder on my 3 blades, remove the burr with a course stone, and then polish with a fine stone and cardboard for a razor edge.

The guy that DESIGNED and originally built the Snuffer wanted a tough, durable razor edge; I'd like to see you tell him the Snuffer Tamer was the only way to go     :eek:    

The Snuffer Tamer cuts into the copper brazing and weakens the tip...you might want to give the people that make them a call and ask what THEY think of the Snuffer Tamer.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Morning Star on August 15, 2009, 06:07:00 PM
Steve O   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: joe skipp on August 15, 2009, 06:08:00 PM
Mr Snuffer used a stone and file...  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Steve O on August 15, 2009, 06:43:00 PM
Joe,

You know how Roger is...

This is what he has found works best nowadays if anybody is interested in some "other" method of sharpening a 3 blade to a razor edge:

http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=031172
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: longbowben on August 15, 2009, 08:35:00 PM
Snuffer tamer has never weakend any of my heads.  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 15, 2009, 08:53:00 PM
you can grind away with your files and all...been there done that...the tamer holds the angle as you stroke the b/h back and forth.i think i'll deal with a slightly thinner blade than one that wont shave hair off my arm....not all of us can spend 8 hours sharpening b/h's...my money is on the tamer.....
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Guru on August 15, 2009, 08:57:00 PM
Ha-lay-luya SteveO     :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:    :notworthy:

Excellent post buddy!!

As far as hardening......sounds to me like you're messing with the temper unnecessarily    :confused:
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 15, 2009, 09:03:00 PM
i am messing with it for sure...making it harder...better...i can shoot mine through a 55 gallon steel drum and a few strokes later shes good as new.nothing wrong with improving a good product far as i know....think its called progress eh
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: leatherneck on August 15, 2009, 11:43:00 PM
I agree that the tamer is not the ONLY way to get them razor sharp. Charlie Lamb has a pretty good system as well. But Steve, there is nothing wrong with the tamer. I have used it for alot of years and it has not failed me yet. Frankly, I could care less what happens to the broadhead after it goes through my game. As long as it stays together until the work is done. Other than the occasional rock that I may hit after pass thru, the tip on my snuffers has never failed. But maybe I have the super strong Snuffers!!!  :bigsmyl:  

Mike
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: anchorman on August 16, 2009, 12:23:00 AM
Elkherder..if I remember right that while sharpening the head on the "tamer" it doesn't get to th epoint with the rest of the head and leaves it somewhat at a different shape like putting a grove in the blade. I have used a file and stones or even just a file and leather for years now I can guarantee that if they don't shave hair on all three blades they aren't in my quiver. Maybe I am lucky and have gotten easy heads to sharpen but I have no problem with getting them sharp with just the file and stones...
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 16, 2009, 04:03:00 AM
i tried sharpening them with files etc for a while but was never satisfied with the sharpness as it wouldnt pass the rubber band test i use on all my broadheads....possible i wasnt doing it correctly i guess but i still stick with the tamer kit...i see no change in the tip at all using the tamer,i hold the b/h up towards the point on some of the rotations...then i harden them and look out man they are lethal...i am also messing around with serrations on the back half of the blades gonna try that out soon
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: HATCHCHASER on August 16, 2009, 08:31:00 PM
Different stokes for different folks.   :goldtooth:
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 16, 2009, 09:44:00 PM
yup
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Don Stokes on August 16, 2009, 10:06:00 PM
I guess you meant "strokes"...    :)  

The different Stokes.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 17, 2009, 12:39:00 AM
haha....stokes...lol....sounds like some willie nelson stuff goin on man
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: String Cutter on August 17, 2009, 02:30:00 AM
I think I've tried everything suggested to me. From files and stones...PVC pipe w/sandpaper. The Tamer... Just can't get the things to the sharpness I like... Finally just gave up. The Magnus 1 with 4 blades I bet will make just as big a hole and I can get them hair poppin sharp in no time. Those of you that can get them sharp are really blessed. They look like they will do the job well.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: longbowben on August 17, 2009, 08:51:00 AM
Wow the tamer is very easy to get hair poppin sharp .I think i might have to make a viedo on how to use.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: joebuck on August 17, 2009, 04:43:00 PM
Steve O.......bench grinder? Are you holding the head perpendicular to wheel at the top?

Roger is hollow grinding his heads. It's steeper blade angle than 30 degrees..it may be steeper than Snuffer Tamer (less than 24 degrees).

I "soften" my heads with a torch so my files remove more stock quicker if they initially skipp across the files.

A snuffer tamer used improperly could damage a head But not as quick as a 6 inch Grinder used improperly.  LIGHT PRESSURE on any method
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Builder on August 17, 2009, 05:30:00 PM
I have tried the single file drawing it to you eventually getting lighter strokes each time. Then used the wet stone and finally leather strop.
Couldn't get them to shave. Cut rubber bands but not shave.
Then I tried the grinder, two edges at a time like the pics steve O posted. I hit each of the three sides twice (two blades at a time) then each side once lightly. Then two light strokes on the crock stick and they would easily shave hair.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 17, 2009, 07:57:00 PM
long as it works
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Steve O on August 17, 2009, 11:50:00 PM
Joey--I am the face man--remember   ;)    There are pictures in that link...

Yes, I know it is hollow grinding and it is making a steeper angle.  It can be done flat too, that I am sure of.

My points were:

1.  This is really the MAIN point...The Snuffer Tamer is NOT, as was stated earlier, the ONLY way to sharpen a Snuffer or any other 3 blade razor sharp.

2.  Ryan posted the way the Rothaarr's sharpen their Snuffers.  To me, this is valuable information and I prefer to do it the way they do it because I know they have tried EVERYTHING and that way works best.

3.  Mike Sohm  vehemently opposes the use of the Snuffer Tamer--I bet it voids the lifetime warrantee--so I stay away from it.  You guys use whatever you want--just don't tell ME that the ONE tool the manufacturer of the broadhead says should NOT be used on his broadhead is the  "ONLY" way to sharpen it!

4.  Snuffer Tamer guys; take your hair poppin' blades and turn them an extra 15 degrees to put them back to the same angle as the standard flat sharpened Snuffer and see if they still pop the hair the same.  AND two blade guys...take your super sharp thin fragile edge and rotate it to the 60 degree angle that the 3 blade has to have when dragged across your arm and see if they pop hair the same way as they do when you have them turned at a right angle to the hair like you would typically do to give your blade the best advantage...without that 3rd blade getting in the way.

I don't have time to draw pictures, but I know I am right   :D  .  Think about it.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 18, 2009, 04:27:00 AM
does it void the warranty by puttin them to a grinder wheel steve o ?
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Steve O on August 18, 2009, 07:12:00 AM
Larry, I haven't asked about the grinder. I'm not worried about it, I feel pretty safe doing it the way the guy that invented and built them does it.  

Here is a quote from Mike Sohm (the owner of Magnus) from another site:

"I believe the snuffer is very easy to sharpen, in my opinion, you take a 14 inch mill bastard file and file from the back to the tip, with medium pressure approx 15 to 20 strokes, you will feel a burr. You lay the file flat on 2 blades at once, turn over to the next two blades until you have done this on the three sets of blades or flats as I call them. You should feel a burr on the blade, next take the file and file lightly over the flats 10 strokes, very little pressure. I than go hunting with them. I shoot 57 lbs, and I always get two holes. I also have to be honest, WE DONOT RECOMMEND THE SNUFFER TAMER FILES, IT WEAKENS THE TIP AND TAKES TO MUCH MATERIAL OFF THE BACK SIDE OF THE HEAD. thank you "

Those are his caps, not mine and as I said earlier, you guys do it however you want.  It is not the ONLY way and people have been getting them razor sharp for over 30 years with nothing but a hand held file and/or stone.

And they "feel" sharper because of the more acute angle.

I'm not here to argue, just to point out the facts.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: overbo on August 18, 2009, 07:15:00 AM
I've been using the Tamer for 20+ years.It's the method that gives me the best results.I've tried most methods under the sun and spent alot of money doing it.This weakening the tip thing hasn't caused any problems for me.Maybe the lighter weight snuffer (100,125) there could be issuses but the 145 and 160's have been very good for me.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: joebuck on August 18, 2009, 08:29:00 AM
Steve O.."I'm not here to argue, just to point out the facts"...your suppose to be the face Man!

Rodger Grinder Wheel method.....produces a double bevel shoulder. Wheel sets one bevel and flat stone sets the final edge.

Snuffer Tamer metod.....produces one angle bevel shoulder from back to tip.

It takes a little eye to hand talent to do either very well.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: longbowben on August 18, 2009, 10:15:00 AM
Maybe i should tell all 5 of my 140 class or Better Bucks that the snuffer tamer wasnt going to be strong enough. Do you think it will let them come back to life.   :biglaugh:
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: leatherneck on August 18, 2009, 12:10:00 PM
"I'm not here to argue, just to point out the facts." [/QB][/QUOTE]


I can't tell. Don't let someone elses opinion get you all worked up. It's not rocket science people, it's a broadhead.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: PAPA BEAR on August 18, 2009, 02:34:00 PM
thanks for the info steve o i'll try that method and see if its quicker than the tamer.......larry
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: snag on August 18, 2009, 03:38:00 PM
A man in our trad. club just did a talk on sharpening Snuffers. He used a horizontal belt sander to get the cutting surface even. Then he used diamond stones.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Morning Star on August 18, 2009, 04:10:00 PM
QuoteA man in our trad. club just did a talk on sharpening Snuffers. He used a horizontal belt sander to get the cutting surface even. Then he used diamond stones.

 
There lies the biggest obstical, getting the blade surfaces even.  

Once ya got that....ya got gravey.  

I've got a mostly hairless left arm, as I'm just finishing new batch of Woodsmans.  Polish those edges to mirrors....
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: snag on August 18, 2009, 04:40:00 PM
We came to the conclusion that they must make the Snuffers and Woodsman by grinding the edge with a wheel. This would give the edge a convex surface. When he sanded them with the belt sander the middle was the first part to get hit. Then out to the tips as metal was taken off.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Guru on August 18, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
Give me a file and my diamond hone and I'm all set    :thumbsup:  


So Ben, do the little bucks complain?  Or do you only shoot 140 class deer with Snuffers    ;)
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: longbowben on August 18, 2009, 10:44:00 PM
I only shoot big bucks.About 10 years ago i looked for 125 class animals ,About 7 years ago i tryed to stay above 140 .To let the deer mature.AND no bear or any deer ever complain.And yes does are also on the list.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: SteveB on August 19, 2009, 06:58:00 AM
Thanks Steve O. Tried your's and Ryan's method and was greatly impressed.

SteveB
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Guru on August 19, 2009, 04:11:00 PM
No biggie Ben, just wondering what the score of a deer had to do with the sharpness of a snuffer    ;)  

Hey Steve, how's things in western NY?
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: String Cutter on August 19, 2009, 09:08:00 PM
On using the belt sander? is it from heel to tip Or you put it on there sideways????
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: razorsharptokill on August 19, 2009, 11:23:00 PM
I'd say doing them point 1st or sideways will turn the belt into a snuffer launcher.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: longbowben on August 19, 2009, 11:43:00 PM
Hey guru try reading it again, its called a joke.I dont want them comming back to life.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: Guru on August 20, 2009, 06:21:00 AM
Like I said, no biggie Ben, you missed my point....

Best of luck to you this fall    :thumbsup:
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: razorsharptokill on August 20, 2009, 09:28:00 AM
I bought a dual water stone set. 1000 grit and 6000 grit for finishing before the stropping. Thought it would give a really smooth edge. It did... so smooth its dull. Must be doing some thing wrong.
Title: Re: "SNUFFER" Sharpening ?
Post by: JC on August 20, 2009, 12:32:00 PM
The blades on snuffers and woodsmans warp during the brazing process, hence the uneven blades. Big file, flat, using Charlie Lamb's method for woodsmans, finish on diamond stone, crock or arkansas if desired. Works for snuffers too.

Razor, it is possible to "over sharpen" in my opinion. I like a bit of rough edge on my 3 blades. Use a double cut file, progressively lighter strokes until you are just barely pulling the head along the file with no downward pressure. Rotate each stroke so you get even cutting. Make sure you apply even downward pressure, especially during the initial stages of the sharpening. This edge will kill any critter walking as has been proven countless times.

If you want it more finely honed, very light brushing with a croc stick or a fine stone and you are set. If you go too far with the smooth stone you may have to back to the file to get the burr up. I think this is because of the steeper angle with 3 blades. I like to work back to front since it makes the micro serrations point forward...more apt to cut as the head penetrates front to back. Your mileage may vary but it holds true in my experience.

Dang Ben, I'd never get to kill a deer...I can count on 3 fingers the # of 140 class deer I've seen here. You boys in Ohio got it going on.