Trad Gang

I am 21 and enjoy shooting moderate draw weights 70#-75# I was wondering if any more seasoned bowhunters would have any input on any long term effect of these weights on the shoulder and how to combat them if you have experianced them. What has been your experience?

I believe it's a natural phenonemon to drop poundage as you age.  It also is a given you will injure or strain something in your joints, elbow, shoulders as you age.

I'd say when you are young, go for it but at the first sign of injury or strain I'd back off a little.

I wouldn't call 75# moderate though.

I think it depends on the person. Some people work out and take care of themselves so their bodies last longer. Some are just not born as physical as others so it can take a toil on them sooner. Some don't want to give up the poundage they have shot in their younger years and suffer for it. If you stretch and lift weights or workout in some form and take care of your body it will most often take care of you.

I'll say alot depends on how you draw your bow. If you are drawing the bow with your shoulder in a pinched position, you are heading for trouble.
If your are feeling tension in your shoulders, neck and upper back at full draw, you are creating way too much tension. At 21, you are young enough that your body recovers faster. But either way, over a long period you will have issues. If you draw the bow correctly, where tension at full draw is isolated to mid upper back, you'll have less tension on the shoulders. ever wonder why archers have shoulder pain and have to have surgery and such. Hardly anyone complains from back pain from shooting. They key is how you draw the bow, for me its keeping the draw elbow low as I raise the bow, and slowly straighten it back to anchor, My drawing elbow never raises above my anchor. Coming low that way assures far less shoulder movement or rotation.

Shoulders are easily injured and impossible to ever get back to being as good as they used to be once injured.

I'm still feeling pains from a minor tear I had in high school wrestling. That was 11 years ago and it still aches.

You have to take care of them.

My wife is an athletic trainer and recommends rotator cuff exercises with light dumbbells. Glucosomine also helps - especially when you get older.

It ain't the muscle - its the joints. I think the best thing to do preventative wise - would be to get a takedown or another lighter bow - shoot it most of the year and then switch to your heavy bow a couple months before hunting season. Depends on how much you shoot too.

Also, if you are like me you want to shoot all day every day. DON'T. I have to tell myself to stop. When I start shaking and it isn't enjoyable - shoot is over.

If 70-75# stickbows are in the "moderate" weight category, I'm in the ridiculously light weight girl'y-man category!  
You have plenty of room to decrease draw weight over the years if needed.  I always tell patients to let pain and fatigue be their guide-- you're body will tell you when you've had enough.  This is applicable during a single practice session or across many years of shooting.
Otherwise, you have great advice in the previous two posts.  Let me know if you experience something specific, and I'll try to help.

Michael,

I'm 45 and have been shooting 70 to 75# ers for 6 or 7 years now. Regular upper body excercising and regular shooting keeps shoulders in good shape. We are all build different. I know a fellow that is his early sixties and he shoots a 90# plus longbow everyday.

I shot the same and heavier at your age,70-80 pounds. If and it's a big if,you stay in shape aka keep your muscles toned and stretched, and always stretch before and after shooting, and eat right and say your prayers, you can, like me still shoot these weights when approaching 50. I'm 48, I had open heart surgery so I had to back down in weight for a time as my sternum healed and my chest muscles healed. I can shoot in the 70s now but shoot 60ish bows bows right now. As my only mid 70#s recurve needs a repair. I pulled a 97# longbow at Compton's and couldn't quite get it to anchor but I haven't worked out with enough weight since my surgery. Next year I should make it again. The only reason I can see for shooting over 60ish pounds is to shoot REALLY heavy arrows, as in 15 to 20 grains per pound of draw weight and still have reasonable speed.

I shot heavy bows, (up to 94#@27") for many years. I never felt like I hurt myself while shooting those weights. I gradually dropped in weight over the years to 60#. at about 45 years, I started having problems with shoulders, neck and elbow. I'm 55 now, and I can pull heavier bows, but I hurt bad if I do. I shoot 45# now, and hit better than I ever did, and get pass throughs most every time. When I was in my 20's, I could pull 130# to 27" with a regular draw, but I'm paying for it now.

QuoteI believe it's a natural phenonemon to drop poundage as you age. It also is a given you will injure or strain something in your joints, elbow, shoulders as you age.

I couldn't disagree more with that statement.  With proper form you should be able to shoot those kind of weights well into you old age as long as you practice regularly and keep your form and muscles fit.  And contrary to what most people think, you don't have to be a gorilla to handle those kind of weights.  Note that I said handle rather than pull.  To me there is a big difference.  

I am 5'9" tall and weight about 150 lbs wet and regularly practice with a 77 lb recurve.  My hunting bow is 72 lbs.  And am looking forward to getting my 82 lb'er that I have on order.  Oh...by the way.....I'm almost 52 years old
 ;)  

This is a 3 1/2 inch group at 40 yds shooting my 77 lb'er at the little piece of paper with one flyer low left.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v624/bracken1/Arrowgroups_5-28-09009.jpg)

Brett

Nobody has a crystal ball to see into the future.  There is no way to predict your outcome based on another persons experience.  You can get some statistical data but that is somewhat subjective, opinionated, and non-scientific.  

Likewise, I can't guarantee it, but I'd be willing to bet, that you have a diminished likelihood of injury in the long run with "lower" weight bows.  I'd say shoot what you are comfortable with.  It is unnecessary in most cases to wrestle with a higher poundage than you are able to pull with relative ease from a cold condition.  

If your ultimate goal is to achieve as many quality days afield as possible then you will benefit by protecting, and listening to, your body.  There is no glory on the OR table or in physical therapy when your buddies are sending pictures of the hunt you should have been in on.

been hearing the word "rehab" lots amongst our bretheren.... there has got to be a reason for the injuries.  Anyone?

Just like no two animals are entirely predictable or the same (given the same shot, for instance), a fellow's eventual reaction to such-and-such a draw-weight depends on individual genetic luck. Everyone wears-out somehow. A fellow I know, in his 70s and not a bowhunter, can't go fishing anymore or play golf, because of worn-out shoulders. My favourite bowhunting photo is of a 70+ year-old Bill Negley sprinting away from an elephant he'd just mortally hit with his 102#er. We're all going to wear-out one way or another, or several ways (Sackett's "The Doorway Buck" addresses this in a beautiful way), and for some, that wearing-out will be affected by their bow-shooting, and will affect their bow-shooting. In the meantime, I'll continue to shoot that which I fancy.

Seems everytime I crack open the site there is someone seeking help for elbow pain, shoulder or neck pain. Then there are people seeking help for rehab and those wanting advice about surgery. Others notice that? Are archers just prone to these problems through some weird coincidence? Or, is it perhaps because we are pushing the envelope beyond it's limits.
I wasn't blessed with joint-forever-young genes; and maybe doing things more in moderation woulda' made some parts last longer; but didn't happen so
nothing wrong with dropping down, and as you get smarter you can make that arrow perform like it came out of a 60# bow instead of the 50# one in your hand. It isn't how many # the bow is, it is how many grains of arrow weight and at at what speed that counts.

I'm sure for some people it can work.  As has been said, if your body is built for it, you excercise and keep in shape, use proper form, etc, etc, you might do well.  That being said, I personally don't take the chance.

Archery related injuries generally are the type that accumulate over time rather than a sudden onset of symptoms.  They sneak up on you, in some cases over many years.  

I had a rotator cuff problem once and never want to go through that again.  One of my good friends is facing losing his entire hunting season this year due to rotator cuff surgery.  

Maybe heavy poundage will work for you.  But I have heard of more people with problems caused by it that I won't take the chance even though right now I know I could handle more weight.

Lots of people who don't shoot bows have just as many orthopedic problems as those of us who do. In fact, most therapists and or orthopedic docs I know rarely see an archer. And there are just too many conditions that are genetically connected that it is hard to determine if any one activity causes the problems. I do think, however, that with the high performance of many of today's bows that you do not need all that weight to get the outcomes  that we all want. So, my response is really a question, if you are concerned about it why play with fire? Lighten up and you will probably shoot better and your hunting success will not change a bit.

I think the main problem with heavier bows is that we don't warm up prior to shooting.  At least enough.  
I have been shooting up to 93#s for many years ( I am 50 now) and really noticed a good warm up helps.  Even in the woods. I find time to keep the shoulders loose and warm.  It really helps.

Then I go and tear my rotator cuff at work.  Go figure!

BigArcher

Oh and after 35 Osteo Biflex or the like.

Yes i take alot of Osteo bi-flex for the joints. lifts alot of weights. shoot bow poundage heavier than the average bear. who knows when im old.

I started shooting a 45# bear Kodiak at age 7, probably was 10 or 11 before actually drawing it the full 28". Since then have shot everything from 45 to 118# and have never had problems because of the weight of the bows.

I do however have a problem with my left arm which I have yet to find a medical "expert" to explain.

For no apparent reason I suddenly can not draw anything over 65#, the left arm will just collapse at about 3/4 draw. Sometimes there will be a pain in my forearm sometimes not. Then just as quick as it appears it goes away and I'm back to comfortably drawing and shooting 80 to 90# bows.

In January I hunted with my 80# longbow and killed 3 deer in a week in Alabama. By March I couldn't even get the bow to full draw.
I've had all types of Xrays, mri's, and nerve testing done and a cause has yet to be identified.
Nearest thing is that it is somehow caused by a skydiving injury which occurred back when I was a smoke jumper.( 32 years ago)

But according to all the "experts" they can see no apparent damage, nor anything out of the ordinary which they would credit to shooting heavy weight bows.
Oh, I'm now 54 and have been shooting since age 5.

But, the "experts" do all agree that my Knees are worn out. Go figure!

Marlon, was wondering if you would respond to this post. You will be the man to watch to see if heavy weights can cause later damage.

For those that don't know Marlons new recurve is a light 150#. It's one of his lighter bows!!

Harold Ive talked alot of warbow shooters includeing my friend Mark who pulled a 200# warbow so far no problems who knows down the road. I lift alot of weights i do go very very heavy. Ive been hurt lifting. Never hurt myself shooting high poundage since 98. Been Blessed.

What arrows do you shoot out of your 150# bow?

I shoot 2440 arrows and rock maple wood arrows.

QuoteOriginally posted by Jedimaster:
If your ultimate goal is to achieve as many quality days afield as possible then you will benefit by protecting, and listening to, your body.  There is no glory on the OR table or in physical therapy when your buddies are sending pictures of the hunt you should have been in on.

This is a great point I forgot to mention yesterday.  I am capable of pulling more than 46#, but I choose not to.  I treat patients with shoulder problems all day, I don't want to be one of them.  For anyone that has experienced shoulder problems, it can be very delibitating.  There is something to be said for taking care of yourself physically through exercise; but equally as important, is knowing your physical limitations.

Moderate draw weight of 70-75#? YIKES!!! Last year I shot RH and could draw my 60# longbow with no issues. Switched to LH shooting this spring and 45# will be my hunting bow weight this year. I can draw up to mid 50's but just not as free and easy as I would like. I must admit I was somewhat surprised by this. I can't wait to whistle an arrow through one with my 45#'er though!!!

I think that, short of bad genes or freak injuries, that the problem often stems from a lack of overall conditioning-people shooting a bow and not much else for excercise.  We're raising a generation who only exercise their thumbs when they play video games! I believe the World Health Organization has us listed as the fattest, most out of shape generation/nation on the planet! I don't care what weight bow a man shoots. I do care that Americans are getting fatter and lazier and rationalizing their way out of a fitness program. I believe that some are prone to also rationalizing shooting light bows to deny their shame that they CAN'T shoot heavy bows! (I am excluding from this group those who are injured, aged etc.) I say this only because people have on these type posts made derisive type remarks regarding the "foolishness" of those who shoot heavy bows, etc. I happen to shoot a light bow. 62#s. No need to shoot a heavy bow-Gotta protect those joints.  :)  But the point stands. Why surrender early to weakness out of fear of "injury down the line?!" (gist) Studies have dmonstrated that you can maintain 85% of your PEAK strength well into your eighties IF you work out and that back problems/injuries are often the result of weak abdominal muscles!

What was it that Clint Eastwood muttered in that flick ??  LOL..

If you wait until you develop shoulder problems, it's too late. I'm trying to work back to 60#, shooting 50 now. So far so good, but at the first sign of pain, it'll be back to 40.

Moderation in all things.

I'm a lot closer to 60 than 50 and I've shot 75-80# bows since I was 20.  My son is 135# soaking wet and shotts 80# all day long.  That being said it's all what you want to shoot and are willing to work at.  I can tell you that I feel sorry for you because if you put a 50# bow in my hand I may as well throw it at a deer because it's like trying to shoot a wet noodel and there's nothing there for a solid draw and anchor.  I'm currently trying to break in to a 68# bow but when I want accuracy I end up with my 76# recurve or 80# longbow.

There's always a few guys who laugh about anyone shooting bows under 75#, but that shows an ignorance beyond ego.  To even think of chastising someone who has common sense, and wants to keep their shoulders after sixty or seventy, is ridiculous.

Curveman....40 years ago you had to look for weeks before you found anyone with a 70+ pound bow; the average bow leaving an American factory for hunting was 40 to 50 pound....mostly 45.  Not everyone is fat or weak because they shoot moderate weight bows...some of us like them and know they will do the job.  And, we normally pull them to full draw.

If you guys love your super heavy bows, then enjoy them, but know most people don't want, nor need to do the same.  I admire anyone who has the wherewithal, and want-to to do such things, but don't go  criticizing ones who don't.  That shows exactly who and what you really are.  There's more of us, than there are of you, so the goofy little insults are out of place.  Just be happy with what you're doing, knowing it isn't for everybody.

Ok, so 70#-75# isn't a "medium" draw weight. I was trying to not sound like I was boasting about it or anything. I shoot it because it gives me confidence in my shot and I shoot great with it(if I do say so myself).  Thanks for all the imput.

I'm 6'1" and 195#'s.  I'm a former DI collegiate catcher and a former PGA Professional.  I try to keep myself physically fit (I've run 20mi., this week, so far).

That being said....I've had shoulder issues crop up from strain earlier in life.  I had arthroscopic surgery on my left shoulder in '99....and it's now a better shoulder than it has been in years....and certainly better than the right.  I had a 50% tear of the super spinatus tendon repaired and a debridement of a Type III bone spur.

I shoot 50#'s for targets and birds from a 62" SIlvertip.  My other bow is a 62" 'tip at 62" that draws 58#'s at my DL.  I'm trying to get ready, shooting it, for a 2010 elk trip.

I can not fathom shooting 70#'s or more....and doing so with proper form.  Not doubting anyone else's abilities.  I speak ONLY for me.  My shoulders are as pain-free now as they've ever been.  In fact, I know they're stronger than they've ever been.

If you can pull off shooting 100#'s.....more power to ya.  It HAS to be an advantage....IF you can maintain accuracy and not sacrifice stealth and/or shot opportunities.

I learned a long time ago that MY limitations (in many endeavors) do not dictate the "std" (ethically, morally or in matters of strength).  I've just never seen (compound or trad) someone utilize proper form shooting very high #-age.  Never seen it, personally.

I used to say (and I still do) that well over 50% of compound shooters were over-bowed.  I don't see that as much with trad bows/shooters.....but I'm sure it still exists.

I was looking at a 2004 issue of TBM, just this morning.  In it, there was a harvest photo - Brooks Johnson (formerly of DB fame) who had harvested a Bison with a 51# bow.  It's made me second guess my choice for my elk hunt.  I "may" drop back to the 50#er.  I know I'm more accurate with it....and I think that's the only std. that's relevant.  If I don't get to that level with the 58# limbs.....I'll do just that.  I'm convinced it'll get the job done.

I'm a 5th season bowhunter....and a 1st season full-time trad shooter.  Weigh my personal opinions accordingly.

I'll actually pick up my light 50# bow when I've regressed a bit and am having release problems. Just a few shots will retune me. 50 lbs. DOES feel now like "a wet noodle" as longbowman suggests and means I have to have a perfect release to hit anything. Shooting a light bow then is a great excerise.

I don't warm up as I want to practice that "first hunting shot experience" after being in a tree stand all day. (Ever see a deer give you time to warm up)? IF you are in decent physical condition and are not overbowed then I believe there is little risk of injury. Stretching can cause injury unless you have warmed up first. I have separated my shoulder twice and had to go to physical therapy as a result of that but quickly came back. I'm now 51 and frankly can bench past 300 on a bad day. Why surrender to easy chairs, canes and light bows unless you have to? Bone density, muscle quality, fluidity in the joints, metabolism-everything is improved with lifting weights. It's usually being out of shape and "weekend warrioring" that causes the problems. Every MD and excercise physiologist that I have spoken to supports this view along the lines of "use it or lose it!" Peace!  :)

I hear a lot of talk about "working out" and "being in shape" to prevent injuries. Most injuries related to shooting a bow are joint and ligament damage or tears. I'm sorry, but "working out" and being in shape will not prevent tearing a ligament/tendon or damaging a shoulder for the most part. Joint injuries typically happen over time due to long-term overuse. Ligament and tendon damage often occurs quickly but is not related to muscle strength.

For example, pitchers often damage there shoulders and elbows because of longterm excessive force applied to those joints. NOT because they are not "in shape" and not because they don't "work out" their arms. Same thing applies to the running back that blows a knee or tears a hamstring.

Plain and simple, exercising is good and will strengthen muscles and improve cardiovascular health, no doubt. Long-term exposure of joints and ligaments to excessive amounts of force WILL eventually cause injury. If not, then you are the lucky exception, not the rule.

There's not a single thing in life I can think of.....that being in shape won't enhance.

Being in shape does not replace drawing the bow correctly. Being in shape is a healthy path to go on but if we are talking strictly archery, then give me someone with solid, confident form any day. I've seen too many go the heavy route to "prove" something. Me, highest I go is 58. Works for me, has more than enough humph for anything here out east. usually I like to shoot around 50. I can shoot all day and enjoy myself. And thats the name of the game.

I really think that 40-45 lb bows were most commonly sold back in the day because most brand new bows were bought by brand new shooters.

My first Bear dealer convinced me to buy a 40+ lb Super Grizzly in 1972. He told me it was actually 45 pounds. I was a sprightly lad (about 6'1" and 190 pounds)and really wanted a 50 pounder. I reluctantly went with his advice, and learned to shoot with that introductory weight. Guess what? After a few months, it was easy to shoot. Too easy.

What was I supposed to do? ?????

Eureka! I should go back to the store and buy a 50+ pounder from the same helpful salesman.

What happened instead? I lost interest, and retired the Grizz by the time I was 30.

Years later, on a whim, I dust off the old Bear, buy a new string, order a half dozen arrows, and begin to shoot again. My Bear dealer is long gone. I don't realize it, but I am a trad archer.

Now the internet has become the virtual campfire for vintage archers. I read good, bad, and questionable things about trad archery. I buy a 55 pound Super Kodiak. It is comfortable to shoot. I find other bows that range from 35 to 55 pounds. The lightweight bows feel like toys, but of course if shot "just right" would kill a T-Rex.

One day a 60 pound Howatt Hunter arrives at my door. Zip. Zip. The arrows fly like laser beams. The bow, though, felt a lot more than 5 pounds heavier than my Bears. It was really hard to anchor at full draw. I really never felt comfortable with the bow, and now it lives in France.

A few years go by. I picked up a 60 pound Grizzly, and it shoots fine. I work up to a 70 pound Super Diablo, a 70 pound Kodiak, a 65 longbow, and several 58 to 64 pound recurves and longbows. For some weird reason, the 70 pound Super Diablo does not stack like its 60 pound cousin. Was it the bow?

In the 21st Century I am no longer exactly 6'1" (gravity takes its toll after 57 years). I am no longer a sprightly 190. Somehow 45 extra pounds are clinging to my lean, rock hard, muscular frame. Could it be something I ate?

Today a 55 60 or even 65 pound bow is comfortable, and the 70 pounders are great shooters to keep me honest. I never shoot 300 to 1000 arrows a day. A few dozen shots - one at a time, seems to keep the rust off the skills.

The so called heavy weights release like greased lightning and shoot flat as a skillet. I am trying to keep my skills honed for that "one shot" and any bow under 55 seems a little iffy.

So now, consider this. A bunch of those mint condition 40 pound bows share the story of my first Grizz. People bought a learner bow, stuck it in the closet, and either moved up or out of archery as the compound craze hit.  These old mint bows are probably flinging more arrows in 2009 than they ever did.

The one thing I personally have witnessed is this; most people shooting heavy bows are not drawing their bow nearly as far as they think or claim. And the majority are snapshooting because they are over bowed and can't consistently hold at anchor. As they shoot more and more arrows and fatigue sets in their draw length and form suffer. This, like in any sport is when you are most susceptible to injury, when you're fatigued. I shot bows up to 65# and my body told me I was headed for the knife if I kept it up. Because I like to shoot a lot of arrows in a shooting session and shoot almost everyday, I dropped down in draw # and low and behold my draw length grew and my form improved. I think we all know that a longer power stroke is like free horsepower. If I could shoot a 200# bow drawn to 32" as comfortably as my 43# @ 29" I would, but that sure isn't the case! Everyone is different and has to find what works for them, but don't be surprised if you end up in surgery later in life if you choose to shoot heavy bows.  This is just what I have personally experienced and is not meant to offend anyone in any way. The thought of drawing a 70# bow on a 20-degree morning hunt makes my bones ache.

I draw to 28" with all bows heavy or light and am very careful to not get sloppy with my form. I tried drawing more than 28" for a while but the string kept hitting my arm when I shot so I backed off. Back when I was just begining and shot light bows I would only draw to 25" I shot well but didn't realize how much efficiency I was loosing with the short draw!

I'm not insulting anyone nor saying that everyone who CHOOSES to shoot a light bow is weak or lazy. If anyone wants to take my bemoaning the softening of the American male, the fact that many of our generation can not do one tenth of the physical labor that their daddy's could as a PERSONAL insult, well, I can't control for that. People read things their own way. ALL of our insurance premiums are going through the roof as we pay for the overstuffed and overfed etc. It is a fair criticism and a call for action that previous President's Fitness Councils have given. We who shoot heavy bows (and I consider my 60 only moderate) have come under attack as well for being) "all about the ego." etc. I have posted many times that the only reason I went for a 60 instead of a middle 50's was I was told that that was a legal requiremnt to hunt moose in NH. Seems like there may be a bit of defensiveness on both sides. For a more humorous way of saying what I am trying to say, take the kids to see WALL-E. Watch the adults who, through inactivity, can no longer walk, ride about on floaters and play "virtual golf ."etc

I certainly agree with your observation of the state of most in America today Curveman.

I shoot what I like because it pleases me.  I am not more of a man because I draw more weight or less of a man because I draw less.  I'm very aware of all my shooting faults.  I know my limits, weight wise and range wise, and I stay within those limits.  You can only kill an animal so dead.  If heavy weights, or low weights, blow your skirt up, go for it.  I'll happily shoot with you, so long as you accept my shooting the same as I accept yours.

How many people shooting 80# (and higher) compounds do you think are doing it for their ego?  How many do you think (%-age) are personally (regardless of the prey they're hunting) over-bowed?

Why would it be any different in trad. archers?

I'm not insulting anyone either, curveman.  Just asking the questions.

It all depends on the individual, how you draw, how well you maintain yourself through life. If you can shoot it well (be honest with yourself), with good form and you enjoy it then do it. The world is full people ready and willing to tell you what to do and how to live. I'm 52 y/o and have several bows from 57# on up, my go to bow is a 83# Black Widow longbow. If I listened to a lot of people I'd be shooting 45# at my age.

Curveman, I just lost 12 pounds and am down to a svelte 158 at 5'8. Walked a mile while judoing yesterday. I still prefer less poundage these days.   :)

You are absolutely right about the pitiful shape of America's population.

I will certainly agree with curveman on the state of America, but back to the question ask about heavy bows. This is always a touchy subject, when macho and ego are involved but there does seem to be a lot of guys that shot heavy bows in there younger years that are paying for it now. It's just something to keep in mind because after your hurt it's too late.

I totally agree that being in shape and weight training will ultimately keep you doing what you do longer - but I also stand by the statement that not everyone who exercises and is physically fit can shoot a heavy bow.

There are simply too many exceptions to the rule walking around my local range.

I believe that good form rules the day when it comes to archery. It is the same with weight training - lifting with proper form prevents injury. Shooting with proper form prevents injury.

Knowing your limits per session is the biggest proponent of injury prevention in ANYTHING.

You can lift TOO much, you can shoot TOO much. As the muscle is fatigued and pushed passed fatigue - risk of injury increases to the joints who are now feeling more shock and strain.

There gets to be a point of deminishing returns on heavy bows, by that I mean does a 60# shoot 10% faster than a 50#. I started in 1965 with a 50# Bear magnum, The next year I traded for a 47# Kodiak and in the years shortly thereafter increased to 55, then 61, then 75, then 88 looking for the best trajectory I could get and eventually ended up at 75#. I shoot Bear t/d's so have a lot of sets of limbs to experiment with and in 1998 started chronographing different sets of limbs shooting the same arrows(600 gr).To my surprise the difference in my 55# limbs and my 65# limbs was only 3 feet per second. I immediately started shooting the 55's for the ease. I'm 61 now and shooting 62# RER limbs as they are smoother and feel like only 55#. Keep shooting whatever performs and feels  good to you. There was an old adage about hunting weights when I started "shoot the heaviest bow you're comfortable with" it's always been good for me.

Well, personally, when I transitioned into traditional archery, I worked up to an 80# longbow.  i shot it for a few years and was competant, shot my share of game with it.  Then one day I grabbed an 50# bow, and shot it and was like wow, I actually had to stop robin hooded two different arrows and cut feathers up.  As you remember any deer can be harvested with a 40# bow and keen broadhead.  50# bow will kill any animal on the north american continet, when place in the boiler room.  To me it is not worth taking the chance and getting hurt, I want to enjoy this as long as possible.  If you ever attend Monty Browning's seminars or talk to him, ask him about shooting heavy bows for years, he will tell you.  Incidently, not to start an arguement but Pope and Young, and Mr. Hill bow prefered 50-55# bows when they got older and hunted.  Remember, you will develop arthritis and that if nothing else will catch up.

RLA, you made a really good point. When I was regularly matching other archers up with shafts, I used a test arrow to check draw length, with numbers marked on it. When the shooter knew I was checking with the marked arrow, the draw length was usually right with what they thought. When they relaxed and started shooting the bare shafts, it was very common to see that their real draw length was an inch or two shorter. That was when the average draw weights were normally 60# plus. I don't think that would be the case today, with the average being closer to 50.

Those extra inches make a huge difference in performance. Dan Quillian used to claim that one more inch of draw was equivalent to adding 10 pounds of draw weight.

All of you exponents of keeping in shape will prevent injuries I'll let you in on a dirty little secret.  I'm 65 and have been a regular at a gym for 20 years and ran when younger. I live on some acreage which requires physical labor to maintain.  I eat right.  All of that didn't prevent the following:

Quadruple by-pass surgery (bad genes)
knee surgery
Dislocated shoulder several times
Arthritis  in shoulder and other joints
Bursitis and tendonitis in shoulders and elbow
Bone spur in elbow
And finally the real kicker..Torn left tendon to the elbow due to a tractor accident this May.  I'm slowly recovering and have moved from a 20# Little Bear to a 30# target bow to a 41# Kodiak so I'm getting there.

My point is when you age s*** happens whether you work out or not.  Come back and talk to me when you're 65, otherwise don't preach to me about heavy bows and conditioning.

QuoteOriginally posted by pseman:
I hear a lot of talk about "working out" and "being in shape" to prevent injuries. Most injuries related to shooting a bow are joint and ligament damage or tears. I'm sorry, but "working out" and being in shape will not prevent tearing a ligament/tendon or damaging a shoulder for the most part. Joint injuries typically happen over time due to long-term overuse. Ligament and tendon damage often occurs quickly but is not related to muscle strength.

For example, pitchers often damage there shoulders and elbows because of long term excessive force applied to those joints. NOT because they are not "in shape" and not because they don't "work out" their arms. Same thing applies to the running back that blows a knee or tears a hamstring.

Plain and simple, exercising is good and will strengthen muscles and improve cardiovascular health, no doubt. Long-term exposure of joints and ligaments to excessive amounts of force WILL eventually cause injury. If not, then you are the lucky exception, not the rule.

Good post Mark. I did exclude those shooting light bows due to injuries as well but what I'd like to see is any, solid, university based research  (evidenced not anecdotal), that shooting a heavy bow will inevitably lead to joint and shoulder problems. People have stated that they are wisely protecting their shoulders from injury down the road by shooting light bows. I have read that pro athletes are having joint problems etc. not only due to excessive frequency of the actions involved, but because they are performing movements that are actually unnatural for the body or being on the receiving end you might say of "unnatural acts" (like being crushed and twisted the wrong way by a 300lb lineman)! Most orthopedists are recommending weightlifting for seniors, for osteoporosis, for joints, etc. What are the FACTS? I've informed people of what I've read.

As for the ego: I believe it is as involved for those who think they are "more manly" if they shoot a heavier bow as it is involved for those who rationalize i.e. think themselves wiser for shooting a lightweight bow when the truth is they CAN'T shoot a heavier bow! Some won't admit either to themselves.  There is a third cohort who chose either just because that's what they like, are use to etc.

When I bought my first custom bow I went to the old Lost Nation to see Ray concerned about what I'd been reading about being "overbowed." I was fully willing and expecting to change the order to a lighter bow. I was unawares Ray had been observing me shoot. He said that my form was excellent and: "you have more than enough strength to shoot that weight and more!' Since I was relatively new and enthusiastic to hunt EVERYTHING, I went with it. Now, it is a light bow for me. Lacking any proof, I don't believe there will be joint problems down the road as a result of shooting it. I would argue that a 45# bow, feeling the same to that shooter, would be as likely to cause problems.  I don't think people are necessarily short drawing heavier bows.

I will try not to post on this subject again. I ignored my better judgment not to this AM!          

I've been shooting sticks for about 50 years now.  In my younger days, I shot heavier (not heavy) bows -- mostly 65# and a few 70#ers.  I'm 63 now and have dropped down to the mid-50s.  Had some tendons stiffen up once or twice, but can't say that I've ever been injured from shooting, and I've been shooting almost daily for the past 30 years.  Maybe in another 30 years it will get to me.  I'm amazed at how much we get our undies in a bundle over draw weight.  :)

"Most orthopedists are recommending weightlifting for seniors, for osteoporosis, for joints, etc. What are the FACTS? "

I can't argue with that, but would they recommend that they shoot a 70lb bow 50-60 shots per day? Absolutely not! In fact, this might be considered an "unnatural act".  Joints and muscles will certainly benefit from regular exercise, no doubt. Manys studies to prove it. But just like in any activity, excess often causes damage.

As for the study on shooting heavy bows to see if they cause injury/damage, well good luck on that one. But I'll bet if you polled the folks on this site to see how many shot heavy bows in the past and who have had shoulder injuries, there would be a definate correlation.

Well, opinions are like rearends, right guys, so I won't give any more opinions.  What I will say, is come to my house sometime.  We will talk archery, and shoot your heavy bows and my lighter ones. I went that route many years ago, and I'm certainly not a weak little pencil-neck 8^).  But the point is I don't need those heavy weights, because I already shoot plum through whitetails.  My bow will shoot nearly 60 yards point-on with a 500 grain arrow, so you need to tell my what I would gain for hunting whitetails, or even elk for that matter.  I would also love to stand beside you and watch you shoot, and see if you really are getting the extra power from that bow, or if you are losing it to static release and short drawing.

At any rate, I wish you all well.  I know what my equipment will do, and I know how accurate and deadly I can be with it.  And, you are always welcome at the Stout household, no matter what weight you be a pullin'.

for years i use to shoot 58" 65 to 70 pounders..they really zipped an arrow out there and clean blew threw any critters when i put the arrow in the right place ......but any extended practice was out of the question due to fatigue.
and now at 36 yrs old i notice that my arrows still zip right threw big hogs[ last week got 3 in QLD here in OZ] and thats with 50# at my draw . the older i get the more i want to just shoot my bows..whether it be deer,  large feral pigs, stumps , field courses or rabbits and with these lighter bows i can shoot all day without much fatigue and still maintain good form and have fun.
if you are going to hunt big bodied dangerous game then high poundage bows are  required, and if you just like to pull heavy poundages the more power to you.but for me, aside from buffalo and banteng there is not a species in Oz that i wouldn't tackle with my moderate poundage bows .....
and as i get older , i have remembered as to when i was younger , that there is so much more to archery than hunting [ and yes i still get the same excitement and want of antlers and tusks as anyone else] and that whilst i may limit some game opportunities by pulling fifty to mid fifty pound bows , i will hopefully open more opportunities  to fling cedar and feathers as my hair grows thinner, the joint creaking gets louder and my sun begins to set .....

cheers and good shooting

ben

i shot heavy bows from when i started at about 16 years old , regret it now.. it took me a long time to get over the bad habits i picked up from shooting that heavy a bow.

used to lift a lot of weights and play a lot of Rugby though

now i hunt with a 62lb longbow but have bows that range from 55lbs to 73lbs

i think a GOOD warm up is a must!
when i shoot with all my friends here i am the only one that warms up before shooting

andy...
a good warm up is a must , particularly if you come from a country whose rugby team is scared of the Wallabies
and all good Backs use longbows....'curves are for Front rowers

Cheers
ben

I have shot a bow that was 60 pounds at 28 inches; shooting a 31 inch arrow for over 3 decades.
 Lately I have been shooting at set targets instead of my normal roving type of practice. The result was blood blisters on blood blisters on my finger.
If I just shoot one arrow and retrieve it and then shoot another I can do it all day. But shooting groups of 6 arrows at set targets ...my finger wears out ( shoot 2 fingers).
I broke my bow arm shoulder in 2002 and shot a buck with my longbow taped to my foot that fall.
I don't have shoulder problems from the shoulder injury; my only pain comes from my 58 year old finger.
I believe if I shot 3 fingers - the 74 pounds I draw would not be an issue.

Ask me again next year  :)

But just like in any activity, excess often causes damage.

As for the study on shooting heavy bows to see if they cause injury/damage, well good luck on that one. But I'll bet if you polled the folks on this site to see how many shot heavy bows in the past and who have had shoulder injuries, there would be a definate correlation. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Excess of anything will lead to damage. Heck, my pinky finger hurts from pounding this keyboard!    :D  I truly do believe that if we polled members here there WOULD be many who shot heavy bows who now have shoulder problems. You would have to control for all the variables to determine a direct correlation however. Was that about all they did for exercise? (Yo-Yo Ma has back problems from playing the cello. He has to perform exercises now for his other side). How was their form? History of arthritis or joint problems in the family? etc. There is nothing inherently true or incontrovertible in the statement: "I am protecting my shoulders by shooting a lighter bow." I could be shooting a 62# bow with less stress on my joints than someone shooting a 45# bow; particularly if 62#s is a light weight for me, do you see what I am saying? I think we all would agree that shooting a bow the wrong way for our body is bad for it.
Once again though, I am not meaning to insult anyone for shooting a light bow. I did exhort those to who it applies to get in better shape-that is a good thing, and I am challenging the belief that my shooting a bow that is comfortable for me, though it be heavy, will likely cause shoulder problems down the road. Lastly, anyone who is an ethical hunter is welcome in my camp. Oh! Again, had I not wanted to hunt moose in NH, I would be shooting a 50-55 lb bow. I don't shoot a 70 or 80 pounder because I like a lightweight 62!    :D   Peace!

Everyone is different. What will injure me, may not injure you.

We are all forced to accept limitations in the things we do. Hopefully we are able to learn our limitations, and not push ourselves beyond them.
We should however, always push ourselves UP TO our limitations, otherwise, they will push back.

Luckily, bows in the fory to fifty pound range will handle most of our hunting endeavours, so we can enjoy shooting and hunting well into our "golden years".

only thing we'r scared of Ben is hurting their feelings when we Woop them    :D    :readit:

"Incidently, not to start an arguement but Pope and Young, and Mr. Hill bow prefered 50-55# bows when they got older and hunted."

Just for the record, I've never seen anything in print which indicates this statement is factual.

It has been reported many times that Hill shot 75# into his last years.

Nothing to indicate a change in bow weight for Pope and Young either, since neither lived into their fifties.

This thread is dead in the water.

OK, here's the worst case scenario, it's a short story about my uncle that loved to bow hunt and is responsible for getting me interested in bows many years ago. He started with recurve bows and moved on to compound bows when they became the rage. He liked heavy bows and I recall his later compounds being around 78#, now for the bad part. He now shoots a CROSSBOW because arthritis has robbed him of the ability to draw a bow  even a low poundage bow. Not to mention the fact that I had to disown him for shooting a CROSSBOW!

I think the answer is a combination of all of the above coupled with the fact that later in life has a mind of it's own.

Charlie. I agree on all points.  :readit:

...I for one love shooting my 110# @ 32"... 130# starts to hurt after a couple of shots.

I'm much younger than you guys, I guess, at my age of 16.

I love power; my 110 gives me twice as much fun as a 55#... that's why I like it  :)

Nick

I've shot what everyone thinks are heavy bows for a long time...I'm overweight, and a desk jockey. I don't have shoulder or arm or joint problems of any kind.

I think a lot of these archery injuries may be more related to what these people did in the way of sports in school, what they do for a living such as swinging a hammer..and then on top of that excessive shooting of bows.

Ray is right. Sports and work can make a big difference.
I have had several joint repair surgeries for injuries/problems that were not related to archery. They have had a direct influence on my bow hunting. I now shoot recurves at up to 50# and I am happy I can still do that. My 60# bear takedown limbs will just have to keep gathering dust (or maybe I will sell them). Age, injuries and arthritis have taken their toll. All in all, hunting is still better than taking up the rocking chair and not having any fun.

I have shot bows in the 65-70 lb. range since my twenties (early). I'll be 55 y.o. this October. Guess I've been lucky.  GY

Can you do it into old age?  Yep.

Are you likely to?  Nope.  


Health, like so many other things is a game of percentages.  Shooting heavy bows at advanced age is a very long shot indeed.

I shot a 70# recurve for 20 years and now have shot 65# for 10 years.  I'm 5'9, 160# and 52 . I also have a physical outdoors job that has had more effects on my shooting than visa versa.  

I personally find that dropping down in bow weight for recreational shooting then jump back up 15 pounds for hunting is very difficult.  

It seems at work the people who get injured the most are the ones that takes it easy most of the times, but then has to do something strenuous:)
 
I also find that  I  don't shoot more than 2 or 3 times a week any more.  But if  I do get away from shooting for 2 or 3 weeks then I will get a few aches until I shoot a few arrows.  

I also agree with the statement that after 55/60 pounds there isn't much gain in performance unless increasing the arrow weight.

                                   Jeff

One benefit of shooting a heavy bow (65+ lbs.) is the ability to shoot a heavy arrow FAST.  It seems to be understood to some that if you shoot a heavy arrow that it has to be moving slow.  
I am currently shooting a 733 grain arrow at 181 fps.  That is not the fastest arrow in the world but that setup is a win/win without having to give up anything in return.

I started shooting 65@27 when I was about your age, I am now 55 and had a detatched bicep tendon and surgery in my drawing arm 2 years ago, but am still shooting 63lbs..and dont see dropping any weight in the near future,  I think it has to do alot with keeping in decent shape, I have a lot of friends drop bow weight because others thought they should, either because of simply getting older or others belief that they were over bowed for some reason. Most have tried to get back to shooting thier original weight because they didnt like the feel or performance of the lighter bows, and have found it difficult to go back up to a weight they were comfortable with originally.. its a personal thing,and we are all diffrent, but if ya can handle it ok, stick with it, and listen to your body..

I for one admit that I had a hard time pulling my new 70# longbow for the first time, even though my posterior pulling chain is strong.

To prevent potential injuries, I now start out sessions with windmills and other warm-up exercises. Then I begin shooting with my old bow (a really old 35# bow) until I feel warm, before grabbin' the longbow. When done shooting the longbow, I switch back to shooting a few arrows with the oldie.

Besides, it feels great to pull a lighter bow when you have the strength to pull a heavy bow  :archer:

You won't know until its too late. I use to shoot heavy bows 70- 80# and now I am fifty six and hurt every day but still manage to shoot my 45# and 55# bows. Oh yeah! the last twelve years all the deer I killed were just as dead as the ones I killed with the 75# bows and I can't think of a time when the heavy bow would have made any difference. Take care of yourself. What does bragging rights do for you anyway.
Mike Lee

Who ever shoots a heavy bow just to brag about it, is shooting for the wrong reasons.

FB,
I like that warmup routine. I'm going to start doing that with a 30# bow I have.

How many people do you know that are 60+ years old does NOT hurt in their joints to some degree.  The LARGE majority are in pain at that age.  They hurt whether they shoot a heavy bow or not.  If anything..exercise and strength is going to help prevent aches an pains.  Hellooo.....common sense maybe?  If you physically can't pull a heavy bow then don't justify it by trying to tell someone that something is wrong with their heavy bow.  If you just can't stand to shoot an arrow that is NOT flying a perfectly flat trajectory then say that you like to shoot light arrows.  It does take more strength and hard work to shoot a more powerful weapon that does have advantages.  If you just can't hack it.  Say you can't hack it.  It may be that you are afraid of a little muscle burn and excercise.  If you're scared get a dog.

"Hacking it" has nothign to do with it.  Can I shoot a 75# bow?  Absolutely.  Do I shoot that weight regularly?  Nope.  It's a waste and a good way to injure yourself.


Maybe you need to back off and realize that because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

I agree with Jeff.  It's become some kind of badge of honor for some people.  I'm 63 and I don't have aches and pains because I'm 63, and I take your statement with a little aggravation. It's an idiotic statement.  I would like to think that you wouldn't be dumb enough to make a comment like that to me or Jeff, or anyone, face to face.  And, I have news for you, your heavy bow won't shoot flatter than any other bow that is shooting the same speed, pound for pound, with an appropriate arrow.  

For some reason, you are getting insulting, and that is a reflection on you partner, no one else.
I've done a lot of things in this life that you may have a tough time "hacking."  So can-it kid, you are not impressing anyone.

Now I see that Macho is starting to shine true. When it's 5 AM. and your in a hury to get in a tree there's not time for shooting a 30# warm-up bow and a exercise routine. Not to mention if you have been sitting 4 hours and a deer comes along, no time for that routine to get loose.

Well said George

George..Your right my arrow does not shoot my arrow flat nor do I want it to.  I'm saying that a common reason people go the light setup route is so they can shoot a flat fast arrow.  By no means do they want a hump in their trajectory.  And I still think more and more people are scared of a heavy bow because it is more about archery these days than a weapon to hunt with.
Shooting my bow does not give me a badge of honor.  It is an "honor" to be able to hunt large animals with it and because of that I owe it to myself and the animal.  I shoot my bow because it is a weapon not a target arrow shooter.  Why in the world would I use a bow and arrow less powerful than I could proficiently practice with because there ARE more benefits to that "as powerful as I can proficiently practice with" bow than a lighter bow.  Why leave any effort on the table?

The generalisations on both sides of this difference of opinion are best avoided, I believe. There are many fine bowmen, past and present, of both persuasions, each with reasons for his own choice.

Respectfully,

Ben

George is right.
Sharp and accurate count more than heavy -- and a pass through shot is a pass through shot.
I don't know about other parts of the world, but the deer around here won't stand still for a warm up routine.
One shot with cold muscles and tendons will be all you get.
All of us old guys were more injury resistant when we were younger, that is just natural physiology. I seem to be as strong as I ever was -- maybe stronger because I am more diligent about weight lifting now that I am older. But I can hurt my joints a heck of a lot easier at 60 than I ever could even at 40.
I make sure that I shoot a bow I can handle accurately without a warm up. I also make sure I shoot a bow I can hold at full draw -- just in case that deer takes an unexpected step and I have to wait a fews moments for a good shot. I don't ever want to take a foolish shot because I can't handle the bow in my hands.
Joe

I am not suggesting everyone should shoot a heavy bow.  But for someone to suggest others are waisting their time shooting heavy bows while they are young because: It is a waist and because you will pay later when older is ridiculous.  The ones who don't exercise by exerting their bodies (shooting bows included) are the ones that will hurt the most when older.  That is one reason I say, as long as I can, I will leave no effort on the table when bowhunting.
Smokin Joe...I think that heavy, sharp and accurate is better than light, sharp and accurate?  For some reason some people seem to always seperate "heavy" from sharp and accurate.  And deer always make those unexpected movements when getting shot at.  I think that a heavy setup is better to have when that happens.

If you can't see that you can hurt yourself more easily carrying a refrigerator than a treestand, regardless of your physical condition, then I don't know what else to say.

Maybe ask Lou Ferrigno how well weightlifting prevents injury.

Richie,
You will get no argument from me about heavy, sharp and accurate.

But I have noticed that as I have aged the weight I am able to pull when I am cold and not warmed up has declined (I can't run fast any more either)-- and -- it seems like that is a very typical situation for older guys. A little research on the effects of age will reveal the fact that connective tissue loses elasticity with age. It is that elasticity and its cushioning effect that protects younger people from injury. The decline in tendon elasticity, regardless of muscle strength, is the source of injury for older people. I spent many years as an athlete and I still lift weights 5 days a week, so I know what I can and cannot handle as far as muscle strength is concerned. At my age I choose to shoot a lighter bow than I used to shoot, and that is mostly because I want to keep hunting and shooting, and connective tissue joint injuries are expensive and disruptive to life. Moreover, and this is important, I understand the limitations I have placed on myself by moving to a lighter draw weight.

May I suggest that sharp and accurate are are an ethical necessity, and thus are primary. And that next comes shooting the heaviest bow that the archer can handle well?

I hope we can all agree that an experienced bow hunter probably is the best individual judge of his or her own optimum draw weight.

Best regards,
Joe

"It does take more strength and hard work to shoot a more powerful weapon that does have advantages. If you just can't hack it. Say you can't hack it. It may be that you are afraid of a little muscle burn and excercise. If you're scared get a dog."

Richie ... this is disapointing and just plain ol' disrespectful stuff .....

Ben

Joe..I disagree with nothing in your post above.  I know for a fact I will be pulling a lower weight as well when I am older.  That is what bodies do when they age whether it has pulled a bow back or not.  That is ageing.  So one of my points was that it doesn't make sense to me to suggest not shoot all you can handle when your young just because it might make you have aches and pains when you are older.  Its gonna happen anyway...and probably less.  I certainly do not mean to imply that the older hunters should pull heavy bows.  

"May I suggest that sharp and accurate are are an ethical necessity, and thus are primary. And that next comes shooting the heaviest bow that the archer can handle well?"

It could not be expressed any better than that.
To me..that is textbook ethics.

Well said,

Richie

yep....you're right Ben.  I didn't mean it that way but you are right. I should not have typed that.

To Jeff, George, RLA, Joe and both Ben's...I sincerely do apologize for the disrespectful and unprofessional remarks I have made in this conversation.  
I spoke way too soon.  Listening to you more experience hunters makes alot more sense than anything I have suggested.

Regrets,
Richie

Richie, nobody's trying to make you change anything you do. Show some common courtesy. Those of us with some age on our bones know what we're talking about. I can still "hack it", but now I have more sense.

A young bull and an old bull were admiring a pasture full of cows. The young bull said, "Let's run down there and make love to one of those cows!" The old bull said, "Let's walk down there, and make love to them all."

You guys have gotten way off track. This thread was not a "which is better light or heavy" thread. Read the title and initial post  :readit:  
What was asked was potential the longterm effects of shooting heavy.

pseman...you are correct.

"I hope we can all agree that an experienced bow hunter probably is the best individual judge of his or her own optimum draw weight."

Yep. Says it all. For some people a 50# bow is a heavy bow and a 60# bow is a light bow. Who is more likely to do damage to their joints and tendons or otherwise injure themselves in that scenario? I'd bet that at least SOME of the guys criticising heavy bow shooters are in fact "heavy bow shooters" themselves-it's just that 50# is all they can handle but they won't admit it. There is nothing inherently damaging in shooting a 60# bow over a 50# one nor inherently protective in shooting a 50# bow or otherwise doing everything light.  Just the opposite if you are letting your muscles atrophy all over. The generally out of shape, one sport, weekend warriors are the most likely to get injured. The parts wear out eventually for everybody as does life but all of the research I have read supports the conclusion that, barring incorrect movement, bad genes, or freak injury, those parts will last much longer WITH exercise than trying to avoid heavy lifting, exercise, looking for technology solutions, "going light" etc. Anybody remember Jack LaLanne pulling tug boats in his 70's?
Damn! I swore I wasn't going to get in to this again! Last time! I promise!    :biglaugh:

What Curveman says..

Back to something close to the original post.  I know a husband and wife who are a couple of the best bow shots and hunting people I've ever met.  Between the two of them there's more than 100 buck kills and that's in PA where you don't get bunches of tags.  That being said, I ran into the wife not long agao and asked about their shooting and she said they don't shoot alot any more and she has went to a crossbow and her husband to a compound.  They are both pushing 70 yrs. old but I had to ask why.  She said they were saving their shoulders???  I couldn't help but ask her "What for?"  She said, "If we kept shooting the heavy recurves we would eventually ruin our shoulders and not be able to shoot them any more."  Once again I said, "Then you would have to go to either a compund or crossbow right?"  She said exactly.  I guess I missed something in that conversation but I can't think of a thing I'm saving my shoulders for now that I'm senior citizen age.  What am I going to do with them later on?

Why is does this thread have so many replies including mine?

If you hunt ethically with a bow that is comfortable for you, can hit the mark and have a sharp broadhead, then what's the issue?

I was a highschool and college athlete, but NEVER was able to bench press over 230lbs. This was even with strength coaches. My joints couldn't handle it then and still can't. All the coaches were shocked, but I didn't let it stop me from playing or stop them putting me in the game.

I'm "in the game now" with a 53lb recurve and proud of it! I'll admit I can't hack a 70# bow. Can I shoot it a few times? Yes, but I have to go see a therapist afterward. Not worth it.

Shoot what you like if it is TRULY comfortable, use good form and and hit the target. Everyone is different. Do what works for you.

70# isn't necessary and it "likely" would be better for your joints in the long run to shoot 55-60# instead. You may be an exception to the aging rule, but do you want to chance it?

Do what works for you.

-Charlie

I do. I'm not going gently into that good night. Why live as though you're an old man until you are?  Why accept mediocrity from or bodies or anything else? Can we at least get in the shape that our forefathers were in?! If you WANT to shoot a light bow -that's fine! If you HAVE to shoot a lightweight bow because you're out of shape and not old or injured then ALL the research indicates you are MORE at risk of damaging tendons and joints, getting osteoporosis etc. I strongly recommend a conditioning program. Then if you want to shoot a lightweight bow after a heavy weightlifting day-you can!   :D  Have a great weekend everybody!   :thumbsup:

Mike, when I was 21 I was shooting bows close to what your,e shooting today I,m in the mid fifties and shooting the same weight, during this time I had no injuries, I do now have a bow around sixty that is starting to grow on me. still shoot the heavier one alittle better but the day will come when I will like the sixty better. Just keep shooting until YOUR body tells you different.

As an example, overweight people tend to wind up with bad knees and/or hips...to the best of my knowledge that is.

Theoretically, our shoulder joints are made to "withstand" a certain amount of weight as well as our knees and hips. If we exert extra weight  consistent on our elbows/shoulders, then shouldn't they wear out faster too?

That could make a case for a lighter 60# bow ....?  

Just thinking and stirring the pot,   :bigsmyl:  
-Charlie

QuoteTheoretically, our shoulder joints are made to "withstand" a certain amount of weight as well as our knees and hips. If we exert extra weight consistent on our elbows/shoulders, then shouldn't they wear out faster too?

And just what would that weight be, might I ask????  Honestly, and this is just me speaking, I don't think 70-80 lbs is all that heavy and that it correlates exactly to that analogy.  Now you boys shooting bows over 100 lbs.....hmmmmm....that might be a different story.  But again....what [is] too heavy?

To make blanket generalizations that shooting heavy(?) weight bows is going to cause shoulder problems for everyone down the road is just plain silly and shortsighted.  I'm sure as heck not going to depend on someone else to tell me what I can and cannot do.  Way too many nay sayers in this world!

Again....I think it all has to do with form.  Learn to shoot a bow correctly and you should have no problems, regardless of the weight.....within reason, of course.  

The main thing is that you're having fun.  Some of us just enjoy the feel of heavier weights.  Nothing neanderthal, macho, adolescent or nuckle dragging about it.

Brett

QuoteOriginally posted by Steertalker:
[QB]

QuoteTheoretically, our shoulder joints are made to "withstand" a certain amount of weight as well as our knees and hips. If we exert extra weight consistent on our elbows/shoulders, then shouldn't they wear out faster too?

It depends what they extra weight is. All fat with little muscle to carry it? Then yes, you have problems as you are not walking correctly and the weight is not being supported well. Athlete weight? Then no, as you have strengthened all the muscle and connecting tissue by the process you used to get that "extra weight." ALL studies indicate that stress/weight training improves the body-it's inactivity then lifting a weight that's too much for you and/or in the wrong way that will cause problems. You don't protect the joints by staying light. You increase the change of injury if you do have to exert yourself and your body/joints aren't conditioned to handle it.