Ok, i just got a few un-sharpened Tusker broadheads, what is the best way to get the initial edge on the head? Any of you out there who can take a flat piece of metal and make it shave, i would appreciate any help.
Thanks Much
Treavor
if you send me your heads and i'll sharpen them for free. if your impressed, i'll teach you how i sharpened them to shaving sharp in 1 minute a head.....pm me if interested...hope this helps....
Treavor, I'm a big fan of file sharpening to develop the edge. Once done, then touch them up any way you like.
Joebuck that's a very generous offer. :thumbsup:
I always heard great things about Tuskers and hopefully look forward to working with one. The more people i help, the lessor my Traditonal debt is!
Joebuck,
I wish you would teach all of us!!! I would love to have you post the instructions for us to see. :readit:
Allan
Hold that thought Allan. I would like too very much......
Joe I would love to check it out too.bd
Joe,
One sharpening nut to another, I'd love to see your technique too. :thumbsup:
Ron
Wasn't there a step by step thread you did already with pics about a week ago or am I just thoroughly confused?
Ron, you know i can't teach an ole dog a new trick!!!!!
I just sharpened an Eclipse..it took me 3 minutes...it was an old head that was new. However i can touch up one that has been sharpened in 30 seconds ..i think :)
Khard..it's the same method i did on single bevel. i am going to use a double bevel this time on a wheel.
it's just burr flipping and strop polishing. No matter what you implement you use, you have got to micro 'roll' that edge and get a burr...
Joebuck can do it guys, I've seen him work his magic, Matter a fact I think I will head over to his house later and get another lesson !
Matter of fact he got a woodsman so sharp for me all I had to do was SHOW it to the hog I was about to shoot !
http://www.bowhuntingaustralia.com/sharpening_broardheads.html
Joe,
Who you callin "old"??? :saywhat: I'll claim to know a little bit about sharpenin stuff BUT, I sure don't know it all (yet) ;) , and I very much enjoy seeing and learning from other people's techniques.
"old"... can you believe this guy??? :biglaugh:
Ron
yeah I think it's the face shaving thread that you did with the single bevel...good stuff there!
Heres a quick video i put together to show how fast and easy it is to get a 2 blade BH back to Razor Sticky sharp with the Grizz Stik System. In this clip i only sharpen 1 side of a 2 blade double bevel Eclipse that i dulled on a hickory shovel handle. If this would have been a new head, i would have ground both shoulders with the 240 grit wheel but in this case it was a touch up job on a dull head. Alaska Bowhunting Supply is a sponsor on here and have more info on this system. good luck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD8Nec3w-OI
Heres a video of sharpening a new head from the guys at Alaska Bowhunting Supply that goes through the whole process of establishing a new angle grind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX4mKkynuJI
Very nice! I have three of the heads done using some of the styles here. The more you do, the better they are.
Thanks for all the info. Very good info.
Treavor
I will second joebucks wheel system _ just got mine and used it the first time on a grizzly 160. I had already worked this head with a file getting the angle but just a few passes on the paper wheels and it was SCARY sharp - mirror polished.
I am sharpening like every cutting instrument in the house with the wheels! WOW - ya gotta try it.
J
I will, sort of, third joebucks wheel system. I took one tusker to that baby earlier this week and got it scary sharp (sharper than I've EVER gotten a broadhead) in less than 2 minutes.
However, I've been screwing around for 3 days trying to get a second one sharp and haven't gotten it done. I did something right tonight and got one edge of one broadhead sharp but don't know how I did it.
Joebuck, lemme know the "secret"
homebru
Homebru (awesome handle!)...the key is to get a burr on one edge then move over to paper wheel and LIGHTLY (pressure) flip burr back over then swap and light pressure again and flip back....it may not take but 2-3 flip flops on the paper wheel.
Now let me back up....you have a new Tusker...put head on 240 grit wheel about 1/2" above axle height for me and make 3 passes of grind on that side. Flip head and grind three passes on other side...do your 3 and flip with light pressure at same angle till you grind all the way to the edge on one side and get THAT burr to lean over to other side..You want just one angle and grind it to the very edge to get that burr..then go to paper wheel...........in the future if you are touching up a head, i just go light on one side with 240 wheel then to papaer and leather....be careful stropping on leather because it can dull too if not careful....
wrapping it up......GRIND till you can feel with the bottom of your thumb a burr on one side of head...........take your time and do not overheat the head.......good luck..did i help?
This is the Burr you want on ONE side of blade grinding on 240. Notice how the burr is a different color than shoulder metal. Dead give away in a visual inspection. Also you can feel the burr with bottom of thumb or drag it across top of fingernail.
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jmb1221/bearburr-1.jpg)
This is pic of other side of Bear head...notice shoulder metal is all one color because no burr on this side because it's on the other...I do have a slight angle grind run off......but not important here... You can feel the burr and see it if present ..you can't here in this shot
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jmb1221/bearedge-1.jpg)
Hey Joe,
I've got the concept, just having a tough time raising a burr. The first broadhead did it immediately and was scary sharp within a couple of minutes. Otherwise, not going as well. Could be a wax issue or something.
Great pics showing the burr.
homebru
Homebru....burr only forms when the wheel grinds to the very very end of the shoulder. Shoulder and edge are same angle. They are the same.
If you grind the shoulder at one angle then grind the edge at another, then it is very hard to get a burr.
Hold BH at one angle on the wheel make 3 light passes and check for burr, then make another pass at same angle ,check for bur , then make another pass at same angle ,check for burr, then make another pass at same angle check for burr..on and on till??...eventually after 1 of these passes, the wheel will grind at the very very end of the blade and roll a burr over.....
try it that..let me know if that helps..........remember same angle
Good stuff Joey! :thumbsup:
I've even been using a jig to maintain the same angle. I'll keep you posted.
n8
Joey, could you do a similar post on how you get woodsmans sharp? I'm always looking for ways to get them sharper. I wanna be able to shave my face with one!
Thanks Joe. That was very helpful -- just what I was asking for. I have bookmarked this thread and will use it when I do exactly what you have suggested. I have a bunch of single bevel Tusker Concordes to sharpen and this looks like the solution I was seeking. I have used a file and then stones to get a good edge, but it sure is slow. I purchased the ABS wheels when they were first offered, but I have yet to get the equipment all set up on my bench. Now I am going to put a bench grinder right next to the bench buffing wheels so I can go from one machine to the next without any problems. My biggest fear of using a grinder was destroying the temper of the edge. I guess you have not found that to be a problem if you go slowly enough, right?
Thanks again,
Allan
A woodsman or 3 blade video would be great. I got some a couple weeks ago and worked on one. It will shave, but I probably pushed and pulled it over 3 different stones for about 2 hours while I watched tv.
Some good reading there guys. ;)
Tusker broadheads are a little unusual in that they're supplied with the most basic bevel imaginable. You need to remove lots of metal before you can even get started on the edge. After heaps of hard file work, long ago, I decided to resort to the bench grinder to achieve my basic bevels. I was very careful not to destroy the temper of the steel by stopping very frequently and dipping the broadheads into some cold water.
Of course, I finished the final sharpening these broadheads in the normal manner.
The broadheads haven't seem to have lost their strength or temper after being shaped on the grinder, as I have used them many times since then without any problems.
Mick
shleprock,
go back and research all the old WW sharpening threads and you will see that the WW is about the easiest head there is to sharpen and will get sharper than you can believe. To save time and energy take a sharpie marker and blacken all edges. Do like Terry Green and take them to a belt sander and put two blades at a time down on the belt, repeat all the way around , two blades at a time till all yor sharpie marks are cleaned up. Then go to a 12-16" mill bastard file and drag them backwards two blades at a time down on the file.
I do not use a belt sander caause I do not own one. I just use a new Nicholson file dedicated for my WW. I mark the file with the sharpie sides 1 & 2. I rough grind all my WW on side 1 and use side 2 for finish work. You must keep the file clean with a file card or brass brush. I also chalk the file to help keep the teeth clean and all the filings from pinning the file up. Depending on how hard the WW in your pack are you may only be able to sharpen about 12-18 heads before the file is dull and you need a new file. However, once you get a dozen WW's filed and cleaned up all the way around and full length from stem to stern the hard part is over ! Any touch up can be done on medium and fine arkansas stones.
If I am touching up heads that were carried in my quiver and are not razor sharp from quiver wear then I drag them on medium and fine arkansas stones, then strop on heavy leather glued to a 2" X 8" wooden block. Sharpest object I have ever held in my hands !!! Touch up takes 2-3 minutes per head. Since the head being down on the file, stone or leather two blades at a time sets the angle for you it is idiot proof. My hat is off to the two blade guys who can freehand the angle and maintain it ! Any two blade head I shoot will come off a KME to help me maintain a constant angle. I is a idiot and need all the help I can get, haha !!! :biglaugh:
nocams
Jon...If you can find an Old "LongBow and Recurve Magazine" circa 1996ish........I wrote an article on sharpening two and three blades. I'll see if i have a copy...I use Snuffer Tamer system files and leather.
I do not use a wheelon 3 blades. I know some that do and "hollow grind" their edges. Wheel is pretty dangerous on 3 blade.
Tip:I change the temper on my Woodsman/Snuffer metal. It's too hard for my liking, so I heat with a torch and soften them..The files then grab great and BH does NOT skip down the files as before. Cuts sharpening time in 1/2.
IMO: Shoulder ANGLE is way Overated for Broadhead use. Anywhere from 17-25degrees is fine. THE Important point here establish ONE ANGLE and stay with it till you reach the VERY point. If not, then you'll never get a head Razor Sticky sharp by having 2 angle changes on a BH. Skilled knifemakers use a double bevel but thats a different story and metal grade.
Joe and ROn are the masters - I have been using Joe's way on the paperwheels for the past couple days and what I have found is one it is EASY! two they are so sharp you do not have to touch your arm to pop hair they just jump ahead of time. Last unless you are experienced with a straight razor do no ttry the face thing (it doesn't hurt persay, razorsharp, but will prolly leave a scar)
I you really need to learn to hold the edge - as joe explains. hta just takes time at eyeballing - I have actually run out of BHds to sharpen. Got some more up at the fire house in my desk drawer, 9 Phantoms, got to run and get them.
J
Oh yeah, WWs sharpen easy - per Charlie Lamb's video. Use a leather strop in the end though. Just think you gotta keep an eye on te pressure you use with the file, progressively lighter strokes.
I think Mr. Lamb's video is on the how to??
J
I know, I've sharpened them using Charlies method, and it works well. I can get them to shave this way, but I still cannot get them nearly as sharp as I can get a 2-blade. Just looking for ways to get them even sharper.
File sharpening is an art and takes practice and patience. You can't sit down and just take a file to them, it has to been done properly and with feel.
Folks who hunt with conventional heads should take the time to learn file sharpening; it works better than you can ever imagine, and with a leather strop, it can make any head shaving sharp in the field. It just can't be done in two minutes.
Jon...heres i believe what your experiencing..
Flat grinding Woodsmans produces a blunter edge than an angled sharpening base like a Snuffer Tamer. Extremely hard to produce a burr scenerio so attention must be focused on polishing the edge in final stropping. Great thing about Flat sharpening is ONE shoulder ANGLE..Very easy to grind to VERY VERY edge of head which has to happen to get Razor Sharp...very popular method and works
Angled Sharpened ( Snuffer Tamers)..these files when lightly push will produce a micro burr. ( i even sanded my wood bases down more to get a thinner edge)...I push Woodsman till i get a burr. Then i go over to leather Snuffer tamer and flip flop that burr...
Then Jon..TRY THIS.....i cut out brown paper cardboard and lay over leather strop snuffer tamer( 2 pieces duct taped down) and drag head backwards flipping every stroke LIGHTLY...This gets them STICKY RAZOR sharp....i think this last step may help you...give it whirl......oooooopps i got to go to church!!
Joe, I think you are right. The woodsman has an angle of like 30 degrees I think. The snuffer tammer would take that angle down to 18 degrees. However, for some reason they do not recommend using this sharpener for the woodsmans. I'm a huge fan of woodsmans, but I don't like the angle of the bevels, or any other 3-blade for that matter. Changing the angle seems like it could be the ticket.
Jon..."They" do not reccomend possiby because a Snuffer Tamer can ruin a Woodsman if too much front pressure is applied.. I'm basically sharpening the last 75% of the head. Too much forward pressure on head will cause what i call "needle nose" effect. I think flat grinding produces a 45 DEGREE shoulder angle..The original blade may be ground at the factory 30 degrees but once flat ground....it's 45 degrees.....I think the Snuffer Tamer produces a 24 degree which is much easier to get a burr working........It's extremmely hard to get a cutting instrument STICKY sharp at 45degrees shoulder angle but you can get it very sharp. Alot of sucessful bowhunters flat grind 3 blades to great results and kill a ton of meat, I'm certainly not knocking that method.
I think your looking for that Sticky sharp and you right you have to change that angle...
I love Snuffers and Woodsman ,your getting me fired up to do another sharpening piece....let me see...........
jonsimoneau,
I have a wonderful idea..... Send me your WW's and I will sharpen them in return for a hunting trip to God's country..... ILLINOIS HAHA !!! I need to be there to make sure the blood trail is good enough and we got the WW's sharp enough, HAHA!
Seriously, I think most problems arise due to some of the WW's not welded correctly and wavy blades. Almost need to cull some from your herd and only use the ones that clean up quickly from stem to stern on the files. Once you get a clean dozen you are set for life. After the file work is done you only need a med or fine stone for touch up work. Blade angle is 30 degrees, most two blades are around 20-25. However, as joebuck mentions the key is holding the EXACT same angle and the WW's and any other three blade like Snuffers hold that angle for you. Once they come off the leather coated wooden block they are scary sharp for sure. Love to watch the hairs pop off and being able to shave every single hair off in one pass with no pulling.
nocams
me toooooooooo!.......
joe, sent a PM. NoCams, I hunt public ground most of the time. Get a tag and come on up, and I'll do my best to point you in the right direction!
By the way, I can get my woodsmans as sharp as most people, but I would like to be able to get them as sharp as I can a two blade! I'm always open to new ideas.
jonsimoneau,
funds are tight this year and I have to buy two out of state tags since my 13 yr old is joined to me at the hip ! Wouldn't have it any other way. Took him two years ago two years in a row. Got to see several 13-140 class bucks just could not get them under us. Maybe we can come next year and we might just take ya up on a public ground hunt. Good luck on the sharpening and may you have many heavy blood trails this fall !
nocams :campfire:
NoCams, you are more than welcome my man...as long as you guys don't mind camping in a ****ty pop-up camper with a couple of my hairy buddies sleeping next to you!
After watching this thread and talking to Joey, I ordered the Grizzly Stick Razor sharp wheels. This is the best and also easiest way to put a razor edge on something I've ever seen. I'm talking hair popping sharp.
You won't be disappointed with this system!
Yeah, Keith...but what you gonna do when the rag heads detonate the big one and we experience that giant electromagnetic pulse that knocks out all the power?
Learning to file sharpen sure will be important then, won't it! :bigsmyl: :help:
Just messin witch ya!
Ray,
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that was a politically incorrect statement... :biglaugh:
Great thread Joe, thanks!
Ron
Ray, I guess it could happen...remember what happened 8 years ago today. I definitely won't throw my files and stones away.
Ron, If you know Ray, you will agree he ain't worried about political correctness.
Keith glad you love it. Hopefully you'll run one through an AZ bull here shortly.
Spending just 60 seconds to get a broadhead sharper than you have ever only imagined .... well it's just down right fun. No Sharpening talent required! Wait till you "touch" up your hunting knives with the paper wheel.
The ABS Griz wheel is fastly developing a cult status!! I'll probably have one set up at Kalamzoo and PBS Nashville...definitely one of most exciting products i have bought in 30 years