I started my trad experience last year with a production recurve and shot it very well. I even killed 2 deer with it. I said I would never buy a custom bow because how much difference could there really be?
Late last season I bought a custom longbow and have been shooting it for 7 months now. I'm shooting it well and yesterday I decided to shoot my production bow for old times sake.
I strung it up and drew. Even though it is 1 pound lighter than my 51 pound long bow it felt like I was trying to bend a steel pole. It sure wasn't as smooth drawing as I remembered.
I'm not nocking the production bows at all. Mine served me well. On the other hand my custom longbow is so much better. Smooth draw and no handshock whatsoever.
I guess for me there is no turning back to production bows.
Hello Pac, i know what you mean, when i recived my first custom and drew it back for the first time my first thought was o my god they messed up on the weight and missed marked it. there is no way it was 53# it felt 10# lighter. I put it on the first scale i found and it was right on the money. I was amazed at how two bows the same weight could feel so differant on the draw. To this day this bow has me spoiled.
I know for a fact im holding the same weight but i guess its how the weight gets there that gives you the perseption of a lighter bow.
I shot a Jeffery which at the time was very much mass produced then got a Widow.....Can`t nock the Jeffery cause I killed a bunch of stuff with it but the Widow was sweet on the draw.RC
production bows have their place, I have 4, custom bows have their place also, I have 3. I feel more attached to the customs for obvious reasons, but I don't compare them to each other, but maybe that's because my productions are recurves and my customs are longbows. No need to compare the two. Actually one my prods is standard D style longbow, no comparison to my highly deflex/reflex customs.
Any bow shot well that kills is worth having. but custom will win out every time.
You need to describe for me your definition of a "custom" bow.
My "off the rack" Griffen scores pretty high if you ask me. As would an off the rack Morrison, a Widow, Zipper, or any other high end and well designed bow - which can be obtained. "Custom" to me means built specifically for my numbers, and finished with woods I wanted. I somewhat doubt that if I had John build this bow for me, it would be any better in performance. The woods might be different, but that is only window dressing. I have some that were done this way too. I might surprise you with a comment as to which is "the best".... though I won't go there right now.
BobW
QuoteOriginally posted by BobW:
You need to describe for me your definition of a "custom" bow.
My "off the rack" Griffen scores pretty high if you ask me. As would an off the rack Morrison, a Widow, Zipper, or any other high end and well designed bow - which can be obtained. "Custom" to me means built specifically for my numbers, and finished with woods I wanted. I somewhat doubt that if I had John build this bow for me, it would be any better in performance. The woods might be different, but that is only window dressing. I have some that were done this way too. I might surprise you with a comment as to which is "the best".... though I won't go there right now.
BobW
Here is my definition of a custom bow. Anything not massed produced. Built in a shop one at a time, no assembly line and hopefully quality over quantity.
Production bow would be mass produced, assembly line and possibly quantity over quality.
I wasn't going to mention manufactuers because I did'nt want this to become a this bow maker is better than that bow maker. In my case my PSE Impala, which I consider a production bow can't hold a candle to my Crow Creek Dalton.
My intentions were not to debate which is better for everyone else. I was only trying to share my thoughts from my own experience.
The bows you mention as off the rack I would still consider custom but I do see your point.
Custom bows are real nice. I still find that Martin,Bear,Hoyt and other production bows shoot right with there custom brothers. To this day after many custom bows I still enjoy the Martin Hunter, Vision, Shavanna, and Dream Catcher. I'm glad there are so many to chose from.
One can know little about design and build a relatively poor preforming bow in one's garage one at a time and a Widow with a CNC machine and "mass production" methods. I'll take the Widow or Martin or Border etc. "Custom" can be another word for "scary" in my opinion. Custom to me generally means choice of woods and grips maybe and not much else.
I love my Savannah but I'm longing for a Timberhawk.
Each person sees things differently. To categorize custom bows as better than production is silly. Custom bows are generally fancier; exotic woods, riser bends, et al. As for shooting, very few of them will shoot any better than a Martin Hunter, or Bear Super Kodiak. The biggest thing that separates todays bows performance against vintage bows is fastflight string....not better builds.
Some folks get their shorts tightened when someone suggests that their "custom" bow many not be any better at shooting arrows than an old vintage Hoyt, Bear, Browning, etc. Fact is, in most cases they aren't any better....just costlier and prettier (subjective).
A great bow, will shoot where you want it to hit, and be comfortable to the enth' degree. That may be a $1500.00 Black Widow, or a $70.00 Ben Pearson Hunter.
Up till I started shooting with vermonster I had only shot production bows(Vintage ones).Then I got a taste of how a bow is supposed to draw and shoot. :readit:
Needless to say I'm saving for something. ;)
Don't get me wrong here...my old Bear grizzly will go to the grave with me,love it to death.But it's so nice to be able to use a FF string and shoot a shockless,smooth drawing bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by vtmtnman:
Up till I started shooting with vermonster I had only shot production bows(Vintage ones).Then I got a taste of how a bow is supposed to draw and shoot. :readit:
Yeah, I've recently (and happily) found myself in the same boat. Not stopping to consider the poundage differance, my Hill is in a whole 'nuther league from my beloved Montana, and that bow wasn't even vintage...
QuoteOriginally posted by Bowspirit:
QuoteOriginally posted by vtmtnman:
Up till I started shooting with vermonster I had only shot production bows(Vintage ones).Then I got a taste of how a bow is supposed to draw and shoot. :readit:
Yeah, I've recently (and happily) found myself in the same boat. Not stopping to consider the poundage differance, my Hill is in a whole 'nuther league from my beloved Montana, and that bow wasn't even vintage... [/b]
I shot the other Hill he had.I have to say,other than the head rattling hand shock,it was a good shooter.And I dislike D shape LB's,but those are real nice shooters. :thumbsup:
I have a Windwalker 3 piece kit bow I finished for myself a while back. 50# at 28 inches...a 64" bow.
I also have a Hill Tembo 53# 29 inches... a 69 inch bow.
No comparison. The Tembo (I picked up second hand) is far superior. It's butter smooth and worth every penny.
I've held/drawn/shot some "custom" bows that, for my use, I wouldn't give you $5 for a truck load of them.
However, some of us have more to gain from a bow made specifically for us. For years, I thought bows were supposed to stack before you get to anchor--every one I shot did. I'd hate to have to go back to that, or a 66"+ "over the counter" recurve.
If you have a shorter than average draw, some bowyers can tweek the bow to give you a little better performance at your draw.
If you are average, you might find there are fewer advantages to a custom bow, but there are real advantages for some of us vs. production bows.
Chad
To me it is all about the grip.
Today's Martins and Bears have grips that I cannot get comfortable with. I have owned several and sold them all because of the grip. They all shot real nice but I never "bonded" with any of them.
The shelf is way too high on most of them as well.
I have owned several customs over the years. You can tell as soon as you wrap your hand around them that someone cared enough to put a little extra effort into the grip and shelf.
This evening I shot my early 70's Bear Grizzly. I searched swap meets for years until I found one that had a "just right" grip. It has as much zip as any of today's production bows and it fits me perfectly. I shot pretty well tonight too. :)
"I'm not nocking the production bows at all. Mine served me well. On the other hand my custom longbow is so much better. Smooth draw and no handshock whatsoever.
I guess for me there is no turning back to production bows."
Looking back at my original post I never claimed custom bows were better than production bows. I can see how the above could have been seen as a negative against production bows but that was not my intent.
I did claim my PSE pulled a lot harder than my Crow Creek. I also claimed I was sticking with the Crow Creek over my PSE. This was never ment to sway the reader one way or the other. Simply an observation on my part.
After drawing the PSE I was wondering if anyone else had experienced the same thing between a production bow and a custom bow.
Do I think all production bows are junk? Absolutely not. I have two Bears that shoot like a dream. My PSE served me well too but drawing it compared to my Crow Creek was very different.
I guess the bottom line is I have a bow that works better for me than another.
Not sure bout all that above, but I love the draw on an old Bear K Mag. I haven't found another bow that draws/feels quite the same.
Just my opinon,
-Charlie
Pac,
Really...this is the USA. If you feel like saying one bow is better than another, then have have at it. People may disagree, but that too is what being a free US citizen is all about. Don't take an apologetic stance in any way. As long as you follow the rule of respect for this site, you should be good to go. :thumbsup:
In my opinion, other than a K-mag, Can't beat an Assenheimer, Rose Oak or Timberhawk. All excellent bows! Does that mean everyone should buy those? Nope. That's just how I roll! :biglaugh:
Charlie
i have shot a few custom bows, and even though i love my pearson, i have to say that a good custom bow is much smoother drawing and has less hand shock.
I just sold a Silvertip because I wasn't shooting it. I am shooting my Martin Savannah. I have two Robertsons sitting in the closet that aren't getting shot but I won't part with them. I dont care who makes the bow as long as it works for me.
Ive shot great shooting production bows, The Martin hunter is a great one but I love my pronghorn its smooth and quick...PR
Paul WA,
this is off subject but i love your quote. oh so true.
Here's what I figger. Take my word with a grain of salt.
Pretty much ALL bows are production bows. If its made by a bowyer at a shop, for the intent on selling to someone, then its a production bow.
Its just that there's some production bows fit like it was custom taylored to your hand. Like its an extension of your arm.
Someone mentioned the words "assembly line". I was at a bow factory recently that we've all heard of before...there were 3 or 4 fellas in there working on bows, and each one had a specific task that had to be done before a bow got shipped off to its new owner. But I wouldn't go so far as to call that an assembly line...that phrase brings about a negative feeling, of something thats made cheap, quick, and without much quality control. And this company definitely does not fit that description!
In my opinion, the only true custom bow is a self bow. And then, its only custom until it gets sold to someone else. (Unless its built for that 1 person only)
I think you picked a poor bow to compare to a "custom". I've owned quite a few of both lately, and there isn't much difference.
A good bow is a good bow no matter who makes it.I have shot some bows I just did not care for and others I really liked.If they were custom or off a boat from China had no bearing on if I liked the bow or not.Certainly not enough I could come out and say all custom are better than production bows.Shot plenty of custom eye candy that looked better than they shot FOR ME.
To me it is all about the shooting.Don't care if a bow is crafted by the best bowyer in the world or popped off the end of a line of guys that don't speak English.Some off both don't shoot like I want and some do. :)
How did this go so wrong? All I wanted to do was say one of my bows felt better to me than the other.
Some read between the lines and all of a sudden this became some kind of silly argument. Others read what I wrote and understood me with no problem.
It never was about which is better for anyone in particular only me. I picked up two bows that i own and drew them. One was very easy to draw and the other wasn't.
I never knocked anyone's bow not even my own because it had served me well. It just didn't feel as good to me after shooting my other bow.
Did I pick a poor production bow to compare to my custom? I don't think so since I own both of them. I could certainly feel a difference or I would not have said anything in the first place.
I agree with you pac! I have just recently got into traditional shooting and have began my journey with an old Shakespeare bow I found in a closet. I am pulling 41lbs with that bow and decided that I was ready to get a "custom" bow for me. I had planned on getting something around 45-47lbs, but low and behold my finished bow weight turned out to be 50lbs and I truly believe that I could pull heavier. I made and easy 10lb jump! On the draw and hold between the two bows...night and day!
When you use the phrase, "felt like trying to bend a steel pole", that is a pretty critical statement.
I've shot hundreds of production bows, and most of them are very smooth with few exceptions.
Glad you are tickled with your custom. I am very happy with my production bows.
It's pretty easy to confound production/custom differences with bow design differences. Usually, it's the design rather than who made it or how, that distinguishes a good shooter from one that isn't. There are well designed "production" bows, and well designed custom bows. There are also examples of each that aren't very well designed.
Orion just scored a robin hood with his comments
I like customs because they are sculpture.When you ask somebody what their "dream bow" is, it is hardly ever a production bow, There is nothing wrong with production bows, they just aren't what most would consider dream bows. It is about supporting craftsmanship and the tradition of working with your hands. It is about knowing that someone actually put their heart into making something just for me. It is just the way I want it. I was never unhappy with my production bows but would much rather put my money into the pocket of somebody who is trying to preserve the tradition of craftsmanship and artistry which seems to be harder and harder to find. You just have to be careful that you buy a custom from someone who has a reputation of having a great design. Everybody knows who's building the great bows.I have always been happy with the look and performance of my customs and all the money went to the family of the artist who created it.
I've owned several custom and several production recurves. From my viewpoint it's pretty tough to find a custom bow that is significantly nicer than a 60's Howatt Hunter or Super Diablo or, 1960's Bear Kodiak or Super Kodiak. In fact from a visual standpoint I find the Kodiak and Super Kodiak's about the most elegant looking bows made. The modern custom bows with non-stretch strings are faster but I'm not sure if that is a design factor or the difference due to strings. The one thing I do not like about the vintage production bows is the shiny finish. I end up cutting that with auto clearcoat polish to a low sheen.
My tradtech titan is a custom for me, I get to change the limbs whenever I want.