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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: spike buck on June 26, 2009, 09:00:00 AM

Title: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: spike buck on June 26, 2009, 09:00:00 AM
Is it possible to heat epoxy and remove the insert? What is the best way to do it? I made the mistake of glueing ALL my mfx inserts while tuning.  :knothead:
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: Buckeye Trad Hunter on June 26, 2009, 09:01:00 AM
Screw a field point in to the insert and heat the field tip not the shaft a little at a time while pulling with pliers until it comes out.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: spike buck on June 26, 2009, 09:47:00 AM
thanks, I've done that with other glues but was unsure if epoxy was a different animal..
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: stabow on June 26, 2009, 09:53:00 AM
I never had much luck removing inserts from carbons I usually end up ruining the shaft.....stabow
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: Romans3 on June 26, 2009, 10:17:00 AM
I've heard of putting a drill bit in the knock end and swinging the shaft to hit the bit agaist the insert and push it out. I don't know if it works with your epoxy or inserts though.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: Old York on June 26, 2009, 10:35:00 AM
Try the drill bit "swinging hammer" trick.
Do it in a room without any picture windows...  :scared:
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: Sharpster on June 26, 2009, 10:40:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Buckeye Trad Hunter:
Screw a field point in to the insert and heat the field tip not the shaft a little at a time while pulling with pliers until it comes out.
That's the best way to do it. Heat just the field poing and keep pulling pressure on it as you heat it. The heat will transfer enough to release the epoxy before the shaft gets hot enough to be damaged.

Ron
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: mark land on June 26, 2009, 11:05:00 AM
It is going to be very difficult to remove the longer, internal HIT type insert then a regular insert and they can be a bear as well.  You will most likely end up damaged the and/or the insert as well.  Better to chalk up the mistake as lesson learned and buy a new set of shafts to change the tip weight on.  Good luck, Mark
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: SlowBowinMO on June 26, 2009, 11:07:00 AM
Tune the bow to the arrow.  Build out your sideplate a tiny bit.  Done.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: NoCams on June 26, 2009, 01:01:00 PM
If your fletching is at least 3/4" to 1" down from the nock just slide the nock out and trim a 1/4" off the back of the shaft and you should be stiff enough again. Carbons respond to shaft length changes much faster than a weight change. Remember too that you want that shaft slightly weak bareshafted so that when you add the 30-40 grains of feathers it will stiffen it back up. JMHO

nocams   :readit:
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: pdk25 on June 26, 2009, 04:51:00 PM
Alot of other solutions, as mentioned above.  One thing that molson and arrow k-9 told me about was to put the arrow in the freezer, then try to use a drill bit from the nock end to slingshot the insert out.  It has worked for me a couple of times on arrows that other methods didn't work.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: Kris on June 26, 2009, 07:17:00 PM
I do not have experience "heating out" inserts which have been epoxied in, but if Sharpster says you can do it, I believe him.  I would only ever hot glue my inserts in for this very reason "flexibility".  I have had good luck with the Kimsha Quick-Stick as it is less brittle than most others.  I have never had a brass insert fail/push-in a MFX shaft using Kimsha hot glue and have shot them into everything.  Also, there is no limit to how many times you can change-up your setup using this method.  Before you try removing all those epoxied inserts, I'd exhaust my tuning possibilites or use those MFX's for a different bow.  You still have many options.  Good luck!
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: Yellow Dog on June 26, 2009, 07:57:00 PM
Set the torch on your workbench. Screw in a big heavy field point. Put the heat to the field point at the same time gripping it with a pair of pliers and pulling hard. Shaft in the left hand and pliers in the right. Keep constant pressure on it while slowly putting heat to the field point, away from the shaft. When it's ready it'll pop right out with no damage to the shaft.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: Kris on June 26, 2009, 09:34:00 PM
Yellow Dog, just curious - can you, or have you pulled epoxied aluminum inserts out of MFX or Axis shafts (i.e. shafts with HIT technology) with this technique?  I use your same technique for my "hot-glued" inserts.  I agree with you, I use 250 gr. field points, more mass for more stored heat.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: e alexander on June 26, 2009, 09:55:00 PM
I've put the point end in boiling water and got them out.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: ishoot4thrills on June 26, 2009, 10:04:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by SlowBowinMO:
Tune the bow to the arrow.  Build out your sideplate a tiny bit.  Done.
This is an excellent idea. I've done this on more than one bow with great results. It's the same thing as using a stiffer arrow. Try it, you won't be disappointed.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: ishoot4thrills on June 26, 2009, 10:05:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by NoCams:
If your fletching is at least 3/4" to 1" down from the nock just slide the nock out and trim a 1/4" off the back of the shaft and you should be stiff enough again. Carbons respond to shaft length changes much faster than a weight change. Remember too that you want that shaft slightly weak bareshafted so that when you add the 30-40 grains of feathers it will stiffen it back up. JMHO

nocams     :readit:  
Another excellent alternative to removing the insert. Although I don't think the feathers weigh quite as much as the weight you mention. Still, a great idea.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: artifaker1 on June 26, 2009, 11:09:00 PM
I've loosened some inserts in easton aluminum that were epoxied and it takes serious heat to bust epoxy. Super glue is easier but still takes a lot of heat and will ruin cheaper arrows. With those internal inserts it would be even more difficult and in my opinion not to likely. I changed all my arrows including stump arrows to front loaded arrows last winter and busted loose many that were super glued but none with the internal insert.I have some and I didn't even try them, just sold them instead. When I do go for it I just take a zippo lighter and heat the field point until I see the insert move about two hair widths out on its own and then I grab it with pliers and it just falls out. I find that if I try to pull when it is still too cold it will pull apart the carbon from the inside sometimes, especially with cheap arrows.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: wapiti on July 01, 2009, 03:38:00 AM
If it gets hot enough to destroy the epoxy resin you glued them in with then you have compromised the epoxy resin of the shaft and the integrity of the carbon shafting.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: khardrunner on July 01, 2009, 07:27:00 AM
Heat and carbon do not mix. I've seen/had a number of carbon arrows split up front with little impact after being heated only enough to melt hot-melt glue.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: James Wrenn on July 01, 2009, 08:35:00 AM
Slow-bow gave you the best solution to your problem.Once you learn to use centershot to tune your bow all these little tuneing problems many seem to have will go away.  :)   jmo
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: frank bullitt on July 01, 2009, 11:15:00 AM
I like all the ideas mentioned. Try a combination of them. Maybe get a piece af steel rod from the hardware an make a slide hammer or will a .22 caliber cleanining rod fit? The freezer has work for me on other applicatins. And tuning an arrow to the bow, can teach you alot about your shooting, and make you a more versatile shooter! Good shootin, and keep us informed on what works for you, Steve
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: Kevin Winkler on July 01, 2009, 11:43:00 AM
I've had good luck removing inserts by using a chainsaw file that will fit down the inside of the shaft and swinging it so that it acts like an impact driver to knock loose the insert. I've only had a couple that I couldn't get loose using this method.
Sometimes it takes 20 or more whacks to get them out, but it works most of the time.
Title: Re: Epoxy, Inserts, and Lesson Learned
Post by: fireball31 on July 01, 2009, 02:19:00 PM
I bought a small steel rod that will fit down the shaft of my FMJ's and use that to bang out the insert once I've heated it up.