What do you guys like I am looking at replacing mine. BILL
I like my hunter safety system. Quick and easy use.
Hunter Safety System...the best there is. Quick, easy, comfortable, lots of pockets, and most importantly, you will use it.
x3
Seat of the pants by summit
I used the HSS pro mesh for the last 2 seasons. I would have been content......then I saw the Muddy Outdoors harness.
Goodbye HSS.
I like the one everybody else seems to hate, Lone Wolf.Lightest, most compact one I know of. Once I figured out how to use it, I haven't had any problems.
I am thinking about getting the new one from Muddy Outdoors. http://gomuddy.com/products/3 Anyone tried it yet?
I like the simple SOP.
Muddy. looks like the Trasformer that was made by Loggy. I tried a friends and really like it but they stopped making it. BILL
I like the lone wolf. Simple light weight and cool.
Seat of the Pants by Summitt.
I could have bought two for the price of the Hunter Safety.
I am going to go outside the box here. . . I wrote a note to another site as they were doing research on these things.
As I posted there: I am not an expert, but climbing/rescue people tell me that the current safety harnesses being designed by treestand companies are a REACTION to the world of law-suits. In that, they have used an INDUSTRIAL application. However, as bowhunters using treestands, the application we really need is a CLIMBING-TYPE application. I have been advised that the best set-up for us is actually a climbing seat harness with an attachment to the FRONT. This allows for many scenarios and safety.(There are a lot of serious reasons for not getting caught hanging facing away from the tree. For one- the suspending position can actually be as deadly as a fall! Hunters off by themselves stand a good chance of this scenario in a fall or blackout.)
I have found that a true climber's harness is far lighter, smaller, and easier to use than a typical treestand harness. Tied off at the front with the rope laced around to the back through lite string loops (that can break loose in a fall) or just tuck the rope in so it can pull out, is far more safe AND convenient. If you fall, you are facing the tree and can easily maneuver climbing up or down (you can even have a rope set-up so you can rappel down!)
Again- I am NOT a rescue expert; but this sure makes more sense than the current systems where you have to figure out how to get back up and in many cases may have to hang there in a dangerous situation.
I am now using a climbing harness. . . much easier and seems much safer.
My non-expert 2C
SOP
Having been in the fire and rope rescue business for 28 years I agree with KSdan and what I use is a variation on what I use at work with an attachment ring in the back and one in the front that I can clip a pigtail into should the nead arise. Last season however I did not climb and my favorite safety harness was my feet on the ground.
SOP!!
I looked into this real hard before making a purchase. To me HSS is too much bulk, buckles, and everythiung but the kitchen sink.
Questions:
-What about when you need to wear a harness, but dont need to wear a vest?
-What about when you wish to hunt a mile from your truck, and must either wear or pack your harness in?
With my SOP I can wear it in, or pack it in. I wont really notice either way.
The SOP is nothing but what it needs to be, quiet, light, simple, and safe, and did I mention... quiet.
I spend a good bit of time in backcountry and have personally grown to dislike anything combined. I.E. a waterproof parka. What if I only need one or the other. I prefer to have a good parka, and a good lightweight packable rain shell. That way they both have greater range of use and practicality regardless of temp/precip.
Same goes with a vest that's a harness. And whats with the seatbelt buckles?
nead???
QuoteOriginally posted by KSdan:
I am going to go outside the box here. . . I wrote a note to another site as they were doing research on these things.
As I posted there: I am not an expert, but climbing/rescue people tell me that the current safety harnesses being designed by treestand companies are a REACTION to the world of law-suits. In that, they have used an INDUSTRIAL application. However, as bowhunters using treestands, the application we really need is a CLIMBING-TYPE application. I have been advised that the best set-up for us is actually a climbing seat harness with an attachment to the FRONT. This allows for many scenarios and safety.(There are a lot of serious reasons for not getting caught hanging facing away from the tree. For one- the suspending position can actually be as deadly as a fall! Hunters off by themselves stand a good chance of this scenario in a fall or blackout.)
I have found that a true climber's harness is far lighter, smaller, and easier to use than a typical treestand harness. Tied off at the front with the rope laced around to the back through lite string loops (that can break loose in a fall) or just tuck the rope in so it can pull out, is far more safe AND convenient. If you fall, you are facing the tree and can easily maneuver climbing up or down (you can even have a rope set-up so you can rappel down!)
Again- I am NOT a rescue expert; but this sure makes more sense than the current systems where you have to figure out how to get back up and in many cases may have to hang there in a dangerous situation.
I am now using a climbing harness. . . much easier and seems much safer.
My non-expert 2C
Okay...good points. But, who makes this kind of set-up? Any links? Thanks.
Any climbing gear retailer. A boat load of them out there for sale. You are looking for a plain everyday climbing harness. You can even make your own (which is what I have done in the past) with a piece of rope. I learned that in ROTC- its called a swiss seat (google it).
Check it out. . . like the trad style we adore- we tend to do things the simple and traditional way (because it is simpler and even more efficient). It amazes me how things catch on and everyone thinks its the only way to do it. I am often surprised more climb/rescue people have not come out on this. EVERYONE I have talked to advise me in this direction. Again, my 2c for what it is worth! :)
loggy bayou
"Any climbing gear retailer. A boat load of them out there for sale. "
Thanks...but, for us non climbers, I think you'll have to be way more specific. How do they work? How do they attach to the tree? If the rope is in the front, how does it keep from interferring with your shot? What happens when you fall? Lots of questions, but most here I are hunters and not climbers. :confused:
I'm a climber, and have been all over with many harnesses.
Climbing harnesses work best when the rope is positioned in front of you (ascending or decending your obstacle). I would NOT recommend them for hunting, as there are some significant problems with using them if you're not used to dealing with a climbing style harness -
1) the rope should be secured to the front of the harness. In a fall the applied weight will cause your body to rotate instantly, pulling the rope across your body, under your arm, before clearing your appendages to support your weight. Anything in your hands/arms will be gone at this point and a good chance you'll have a nasty bruise to follow that rope path.
2) A rock climbing harness does not have a chest component - no way to keep your body vertical at the point of impact. Most people as a result of a "significant fall (anything 1.5x your body height) will ragdoll as the line goes to full tension, applying the force to the middle of your waist leaving them spralled out momentarilly as a pinata until they recover. If you're not ready for this, it will put a LOT of strain on your back and other areas.
3) A Swiss seat is an emergency seat. Will it hold? Sure will, just like a german seat (which is more comfortable BTW) or an Aussie wrap. You can make them with rope, but 1" nylon webbing is a much better way to go, lighter, and more adaptable.
There are many other reasons why I'd not recommend a climbing specific harness to a hunter who hasn't spent some time rock climbing.
SOP and the Muddy harness are great, secure options without un-necessary options that many hunters perfer.
Shucks, wihill. That's disappointing. I was hoping to get away with something like this:
http://www.prolitegear.com/camp-alp-95-climbing-harness.html
Less than 4oz...how cool would that be?
The primary problem for me is that no one seems to build a harness with hot weather in mind. I hunt primarily in Florida...mid 90 degree weather. I am not at all interested in vests, zippers, heavy padded buckles, pockets, places to store gear and food...I just want the lightest, coolest piece of gear that will keep me from killing myself. If someone would build one, it would encourage guys like myself to use it instead of dreading putting it on or just leaving it at home.
BTW: an additional gripe are harnesses with very short tree teathers with restricted range of motion...geeze, I need to be able to move and shoot or there is no sense in being in the tree. :mad: Okay, now I feel better. ;)
Another vote for Lone wolf. Well designed and easy to use. Very underrated,find them on the Bay for little or nothing.
Red Boar,
I am with you.... most are just too heavy, ( lawyers fault !)and too hot for early season even here in TN. My bud DW showed me the new one from Summit and I like it better than any I have seen thus far. I even like the tree strap too, it is rope and looks long enough to give you some room to shoot.
nocams :readit:
QuoteOriginally posted by Red Boar:
Shucks, wihill. That's disappointing. I was hoping to get away with something like this:
http://www.prolitegear.com/camp-alp-95-climbing-harness.html
Less than 4oz...how cool would that be?
If you feel comfortable dealing with the issues that could arise from using a rock climbing harness, go right ahead. IMO they're little better than the old waist straps that hung a lot of us out to dry. ;)
My other argument would be, after all the wool, layers etc that you're putting on to stay nice and warm up in the tree, would an extra few ounces for safety really bother you?
The HSS system, while the most convienent (I've got one!) to get on and off in the dark, isn't the lightest by far. I had one that came with my LW stands, and while it weight nothing I fought like mad to get it on right in the dark.
For me, I prefer something in the middle - I like the Muddy/Loggy (same thing different name) harness, others really like the SOP harness, both provide great recovery for minimal weight.
Besides, that's an indoor sportclimbing harness - why on earth would you want to be seen in that thing? :p :D Some of us need to place protection on the paths we choose, not follow the red hand grips/slivers.
wihill...not suggesting or advocating that I would or should use it. I know nothing about rock climbing. I was just hoping to find an alternative to hot, heavy, cumbersome, short-teathered safety harnesses. As far as wool and layers go, I bowhunt mostly here in Florida. Sometimes in GA and SC. It was 95 here today and supposed to be approaching 100 tomorrow. No wool or layers, unless you want to die of heat prostration. :scared: That was my originial point...most gear manufacturers falsely assume that hunters only go out in frigid conditions.
Red boar- Most of the answers to your questions are: Rope!
Read my first post. . . be creative. . . attach the rope to the front of the harness, wrap it around the side, tuck it in, and it is out of the way. You can also have a couple of light string loops on your side that you place the rope through starting on the lower back and tying off in front. Either way, the rope has the feel that it is from your lower back.
As I stated, I am not an expert. So, I do respect wihill as a climber. The folks I talked with are all rescue/climber/military folks though. They really think the current systems were built on liability, not function. I am not convinced of the concern for the "ragdoll" experience as you are only falling a 12-24" (not 1.5x body ht.).
I think I am going to keep using the climbing harness with rope. The entire thing fits in the size of a ball-cap, weighs almost nothing, and goes on very easy-even in the dark. I feel much safer and know I can get down if I were to fall- unlike most treestand harnesses where you may have to hang there until someone can help you (assuming you don't have cardio complications due to dangers associated with suspension).
Good thread and considerations. . .
Dan in KS
Hey Dan...thanks for the tips, I appreciate it. You make good points. As you suggest, if a climbing harness is made to save your arse from a fall off the side of a mountain, why would it not work on a short fall off the side of your treestand? Still wondering about attaching to the tree? How long of a rope? What method to attach the rope to the tree?
As far as wihill's question: "Besides, that's an indoor sportclimbing harness - why on earth would you want to be seen in that thing? Some of us need to place protection on the paths we choose, not follow the red hand grips/slivers"
Not sure what you are implying. Maybe it is a slam at folks who rock climb indoors instead of outdoors?? With all do respect, I don't care a flip about rock climbing indoors or out. Not unless the climb led to a mountain goat or sheep I could hunt. Who is the audience in the woods? I was just exploring the lightest possible option that will keep me from dropping to the ground. I wear a ASAT leafy suit when I hunt...a tiny band of color wouldn't make a difference (plus, there are lots of colors to choose from in climbing harnesses). Again, not trying to advocate the use of one, just trying to gain some knowledge and choose the best option.
Red Boar- I agree. Climbing harness is MORE than enough for our application. And like I said, there is no need to hang there for hours until someone comes to help. As far as color- some of that gets silly. For the nervous- just get a black one.
As far as attachment. . . there are a few ways from what I understand. It can be as simple as tying it directly to the harness, using a carabiner, or hooking up a rappelling rig with a rope that you tie off on the trunk and drop all the way to the ground. Again, climbing sites, literature, or stores can help you with options. On the tree side, there are options, but I just tie off around the tree about head ht. with some hitches, making sure I have just enough slack for needed movement. Again, the simpler the better for me.
Good luck and hunting
Thanks again, Dan. Not sure where the "indoor" slam came from anyway. According to the specs, the harness I made reference to is designed for ski and high-altitude mountaineering. Possibly there is some animosity between indoor and outdoor climbers I am unaware of. Of no concern to me.
I'll do some research regarding attaching to harness and tree. Simple is best, as you said. Take care.
Yes, it was a poke at the weekend indoor climbers, nothing more ;) I used to climb indoors for a while until the fashion show got beyond what I cared to deal with, then I went on to the bigger multi-pitch stuff outdoors which changed the entire way I looked at climbing and gear.
Sport Climbing harnesses are built for one reason, to provide the absolute minimum in the way of necessary suspension without comfort or means of attaching protection for a lead.
What does this mean for a hunting setup? Not a hill of beans - but please know that you should not, under any circumstance, attach the rope to the rear of the waist on the harness. Harnesses were not designed to support weight in this fashion.
If you do chose to mount the rope around you, place the rope through a series of velcro'd loops on your weak side which will break away much faster and allow your strong side to catch your descent. You will not be falling 12-24", consider that the average length around your waist is 18" initially, plus the loop, plus whatever amount of slack you've given yourself for mobility. The distance may be greater than you think....
Also - what kind of rope are you using for this? A dynamic rope will act like a shock absorber and take some of the initial sting out of the impact, but most of the ropes used are static, with no give at all.
If you want to try this, go right ahead - 24$ isnt a bad investment for an experiment provided you attempt this at a LOW HEIGHT so that you can see what could occure at height. I'd also recommend doing some reading on the correct way to tie into a harness (please don't use a carabiner to link into a rock climbing harness, always tie into them...).
In terms of attaching the harness to the tree, I still think the setup Lonewolf uses is the most adaptable, and secure method. If you go to their website they've got a document on how to tie into the tree with their rope system, it should give you a good idea where to start.
Didn't see you were in FL - yah, the wool would kill you. :D Unfortuantely up here, without it the results would be similar....
Be safe!
wihill- I can agree that one may want a little more stout harness than the lightest wt. ones. I like the velcro idea better than my system of tucking it in.
SERIOUSLY, I am not trying to be prideful or argumentative. I really am trying to learn so help me out here :bigsmyl:
hide em hunter safety harness were the best easy to put on. they do not make these anymore but if anyone knows where i can get a xl please let me know thanks
Dan - I'm positive you're not being prideful or arguementative. :D I'm just trying to explain why the tie off point in the front is not a good idea.
The overall fall is not going to be the problem with your system, I'd bet that realisticly you'll fall no more than 3+ feet before arrest.
The problem is where the rope is anchored to (the front of your body) vs the connection point on the tree (behind your body). Should you go for Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (joking of course), you will eventually end up facing the tree - that is certain. How the rope twists you around to get you there will be the problem.
Harnesses designed for hunting place the anchor point behind the person (good ones also use a rip out system on the loop to decelerate the fall) because hunters typically have something in their hands - objects of very sharp, leathal design. A fall from a system like this allows the victem to keep both hands securely on the weapon as they fall, or at least allow them to cleanly drop them without impedment from the line catching them.
With the rope anchored in front of a person, with the weight on the rope it's not going to stop at your armpit, it will continue to fight until it reaches it's tension position and gravity has control of you again(probably with your arm stuck to the tree with you below it). I have no idea where the sharp broadheads and bow you were just holding have ended up - hopefully not in you!
A harness that has the anchorpoint behind the person is no fun at all to recover from. I know this first hand. ;) (I get curious sometimes on the stand and tend to wander my feet over the edges a bit farther than I should when looking through binoc's). If you tie off CORRECTLY in the tree, however, it's not as big of a pain as it looks -
1) You should always secure the strap around the tree above your standing hieght.
2) You should adjust the tension of the securing strap (from the tree to your harness) so that it's slightly loose while sitting comfortably on the stand
3) Position the connection point (between the strap around the tree and your harness) at a midway point between your stand and your ascention means (steps, screw ins, etc), this way you'll be close to either the stand or the steps, but not impale yourself on either when you hit.
Dan, I'm not saying that you can't try it out and see if it works best for your style of hunting (Lord knows I modify more equipment than I should to make it work like I want, safety be darned). Just be careful and don't injure yourself in an experiment. Been there, done it, got the scars to remember them.
:D
Thanks. . . great reply. I will continue to education and contemplate.