I'm used to shooting 410-504 grain arrows out of my 45# SR Swift. But it was raining tonight so I fletched a couple of gold tip 600 ultralights just to pass the time. Weight on the finished 30" arrow is right at 260. I am fairly new to traditional and am not sure what weight is too light for a bow. I don't want to damage my bow by shooting these arrows. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
You need to be shooting ATLEAST 360 grains to meet the 8 grains per pound minimum most bowyers set. If you shoot a lower weight than they allow, it can void your warranty.
In my opinion, I'd be shooting the 410 grain arrows out of it.
Kid
definitly too light.. I would shoot at least the 410 but the 504 would be a great one
The 504's are Grizzly Stiks and they do fly great. I thought there was an 8 grain / pound rule out there but just wasn't sure. What about tube weights for the ultralights? If I put in 5 grain per inch tubes I end up with a 404 grain arrow.
It also depends on the bow. Many of better performing bows made of modern materials can handle lighter arrows. I would be more hesitant with a selfbow to shoot light arrows.
I don't like the noise my bows make with light arrows.
Eight to ten grains per pound is about where one should be realistically. However, the bowyers of old never had any concern about arrow weight on their bows. I don't know why there would be a concern with modern bows, which should have better adhesives keeping them together. My personal choice is for 9 to 10 grains per pound for my bows....just because 8^).
How are you getting a 30" arrow to only weigh 260gns?
They are a little light for most 45lb bows.
I just added the weight tubes and now have 2 gold tip 600 ultralights weighing in at 396. That puts me at 8.9 grains per pound. I think that will be safe too shoot. I'm building these for 3-d but feel like a gamer shooting nib tips. Thanks for all the help.
the arrow weight is 5.7 grains per inch. Ad a 50 grain nib tip, insert, nock, feathers, and you'll get about a 260 arrow.
Thanks Jason.I was not thinking about the nib points since I use screw-ins all the time so I can shoot broadheads.Might have to get some. :)
260 seems light..i dont know that i would shoot that out of my metal riser hoyt recurve....BUT...my hunting arrow for my 44# hoyt is 375grs. :)
260gr out of a 45# holding weight stickbow is pure suicide for yer bow, and maybe you. that's less than 6gpp. don't do that.
i would never wanna go below 9gpp as the arrow isn't heavy enuf to absorb the energy transmitted from the limbs via the bowstring - and you'll get added 'hand shock' on release as that wasted energy gets released through the riser. just not good for you or yer bow.
stick with at least 10gpp (more is better) and be shooting more efficiently and effectively for hunting.
I once shot an arrow that light out of a 45lb howatt hunter and on the third shot the string split the limb tips and made 2 splits(1 for each side of the string loop) 3 inches down the limb. Bow was ruined, thought it was just a defect and tried another bow. SAME THING happened!!! expensive lesson, now I stay at least 9gpp.
You did it twice?
Many years ago, I shot 27 1/2", 1814 arrows out of a 43 pound Hoyt Pro Medalist. Those couldn't have weight over 270 grains with standard target tips and 3" fletch. It was commonplace back then to shoot light target arrows from mid 40's bows. So I'm not understanding why it can't be done now, at least for target shooting.
Is it the low stretch/no stretch strings that cause the problem?
No it is mainly because some of the custom bowyers have the 8 gn/lb warrenty thing going on now days.Most recurves get pretty loud once you get under 7gns but a well built one should shoot light arrows without harm.Just might need ear plugs while shooting. ;)
Maybe I don't know enough to know what I don't know....10 gpi IMO
QuoteOriginally posted by George D. Stout:
You did it twice?
Many years ago, I shot 27 1/2", 1814 arrows out of a 43 pound Hoyt Pro Medalist. Those couldn't have weight over 270 grains with standard target tips and 3" fletch. It was commonplace back then to shoot light target arrows from mid 40's bows. So I'm not understanding why it can't be done now, at least for target shooting.
Is it the low stretch/no stretch strings that cause the problem?
a 27.5" 1814 x7 weighs 8.62gpi, for 237gr shaft weight. add in a 7% 60gr nibb, fletchings of choice and a nock, and it'll weigh more than 325gr in the raw, without cresting.
even still, holding 43# that's 7.5gpp (CORRECTION! - hey, i'm old, i can be wrong! ;) ) - still, that's too light an arrow.
that size shaft is also way underspined for 43# holding weight. i shot a LOT of naa and nfaa tournament archery back in the late 50's thru early 70's and my 39# hoyt pro medalist worked best with 29" 1914's abd 9% nibbs. it worked out to around 9.6gpp.
even overbuilt limbs and limb tips are gonna take a whooping from consistently launching under 9gpp, worse yet 7gpp, or an insane 6gpp, particularly using modern hmpe string fiber ... to a lesser degree with dacron.
remember those late 60's/early 70's kevlar strings? guaranteed to blow up at least one bow in a major tourney. :scared:
in the 60's, the average nor'east tourney bow weight was maybe 38#, a few above and more below.
Rob....some things defy logic eh? 8^). I didn't try the Kevlar stuff, and those Hoyt PM's could be tuned to shoot about anything 8^). I shot a 27" draw to back of bow so was actually shooting just a smidge over 40#, and the arrows flew great....much better than I could shoot them. I was a barebow shooter. My first Hoyt PM was a 34 pound... wish I had that old PM now; when you do find them they bring pretty pennies.
gotta agree, george - those early all-wood pm's were stickbows of true art. old earl didn't make no junk. i knew earl and ann when they had robin hood archery in montclair, nj, back in the 60's. in all, i had 3 pm's and they all were shooters ... later i went with the times abd moved on to metal gm's, wing slimlines, darton executives, and a whole host of others, but the pm's were the best and i shudda never sold 'em. oh well ....
oh yeah - 325grs and holding @ 40# is a mo' bettah 8.2gpp :D
Seems that somewhere I read that people like Hill, Bear, Pope, and Young, always gave themself a "nanno" for their bow weight. The "nanno" being a 0 added to the bow weight. IE...45 lbs + 0= 450 arrow. I also read or think I did that Hill killed his elephant with a 110 lb bow, arrow weight was 1100 grains. Maybe I have been dreaming to much.....lol
Well I don't think Hill followed that most of the time.He shot cedar arrows a lot with light points from bows 80lbs.No way possible for him to be shooting 10gns/lb with the length arrows he used.I expect with the heaviest cedars he would be shooting 8gns/lb or less.Now with hardwoods ect they were shooting maybe 10gns but with heavy bows and short arrows it was not possible with cedar arrows. jmho
at least to me, it'd be interesting to know the average weight of hill's broadhead arrow for a given draw weight bow.
i've read that he prefered hardwood footed arrows, so that would increase total weight.
Rod a few years ago someone on the other site had one that weighed at around 560gns.According to his arrow building section in "Hunting the Hardway" he prefer tapered 11/32 cedar over everything else.He did use a 3/8s shaft when he wanted a heavy arrow and tapered it full length.He also went on to say he did not like footed shafts with broadheads because it made the front of the arrow too heavy with broadhead and rob the cast.He never wanted a broadhead over 150gns and prefered lighter again to not rob cast.By his own words he was shooting less than 8gns/lb and wanted a low foc to get as much distance from the arrow as he could. Howard liked light fast arrows. :)
QuoteOriginally posted by LKH:
It also depends on the bow. Many of better performing bows made of modern materials can handle lighter arrows. I would be more hesitant with a selfbow to shoot light arrows.
I don't like the noise my bows make with light arrows.
i agree.
My Hoyt Gamemaster "likes" light arrows.
#43, arrows=400 grains
my 44# hoyt likes both 525gr and 370gr. arrows.....i like the lighter especially since i gap shoot.
but my 52# hoyt gamemaster2 really likes 415gr. arrows!! its a give and take thing...so for me personally i would rather have a lighter arrow that HAS and WILL do the job for me on Alabama deer, hogs,turkey, and especially 3-d.
BTW- i have taken hogs with the 44# hoyt gamemaster2 and a beman ics 500 with a 100gr. magnus stinger for a total weight of 375grs. ....biggest hog was around 140# and all that was sticking out, on the entry side, was half of the fletching. hog ran about 50yds before expiring.
QuoteOriginally posted by James Wrenn:
Rod a few years ago someone on the other site had one that weighed at around 560gns.According to his arrow building section in "Hunting the Hardway" he prefer tapered 11/32 cedar over everything else.He did use a 3/8s shaft when he wanted a heavy arrow and tapered it full length.He also went on to say he did not like footed shafts with broadheads because it made the front of the arrow too heavy with broadhead and rob the cast.He never wanted a broadhead over 150gns and prefered lighter again to not rob cast.By his own words he was shooting less than 8gns/lb and wanted a low foc to get as much distance from the arrow as he could. Howard liked light fast arrows. :)
wow, now that's revealing!!! :saywhat:
Ybuck, 400gns isn't light for a 43# bow...for a 60# yes....you're over 9gpp at 400gns...
Yeah Rob I was a bit surprised too.I just started reading the book after winning it at a shoot last year.Sure seems a lot of things are different than things I have seen posted on the web about him.Sorry about all the typos in the other post.My batteries were dying in my wireless keyboard and it kind of typed what ever it wanted to. :)
Back on topic.. You draw length has much to do with how light of arrow you can shoot from bows.A person with a 30" draw shooting 9gns puts more stress on a bow than someone with a 26" draw does with a lot lighter arrow.Going below the regular 8gns threshold on most bows if you have a short draw really should not harm the bow at all if the constrution is sound.I only draw 26 and have a couple of bows that shoot nice and quiet with 7gn arrows.Since I shoot light weight bows and love big broadheads I can seldom get arrows that light except for shooting targets however. jmo
For what it's worth, when Hill went to Africa in 1950, he got his cedar arrows (100 dozen) from Ben Pearson...who sent them to Hugh Rich in California to be prepped for Hill's trip. Hugh made sure they were all straight and mounted the broadheads per Hill's preference.
A while back I asked Jay St. Charles what is the lightest arrow I could shoot with a 53# Thunderbird recurve he made, his response was there is no such thing in his opinion, any arrow was going to be heavy enough.
I am not advocating light arrows........I shoot 500-600 gr woodies out of all my bows; but I have also tried 250 gr carbons just to satisfy my curiosity.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bjorn:
A while back I asked Jay St. Charles what is the lightest arrow I could shoot with a 53# Thunderbird recurve he made, his response was there is no such thing in his opinion, any arrow was going to be heavy enough.
I am not advocating light arrows........I shoot 500-600 gr woodies out of all my bows; but I have also tried 250 gr carbons just to satisfy my curiosity.
mr. st charles statement sure don't sound right to me. all bows have limits, and the lighter the arrow the closer to a dry fire. 250gr out of 53# holding weight is 4.72gpp - that's a dry fire in my book. yikes!
using 10gpp as a minimum, the release feels better, the arrow receives more of the limb's energy, the shot is more stable and with less noise, a better sense of 'shot feel', and increased penetration.
the price is lower trajectory, which can be an issue for open space hunting out west, but not in the deep woods where most shots are under 20 yards.