I noticed the new product for sharpening at ABA.
http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/GrizzlyStik-Razor-Sharp-System-P168C17.aspx
How easy is it to use a bench grinder for sharpening? How do you insure that you have the blade at the proper angle to the grinder? Has anyone tried this particular product yet? Thanks. ;)
Monte Browning had an article on this in TBM a few years ago. He used it for WW/Snuffer 3 blades. Set up as a screw-in head he would leave it threaded loose in the shaft so it would "self-align". Never heard of anyone using it for a 2 blade.
Eric
This system works great for 2 blade heads BUT you can get seriously injured trying to sharpen 3 blade heads using the Cardboard wheel....I know Monty knows his stuff and didn't see or read the article...I don't think theres any way that I'd even try a 3 or 4 blade head with this Sharpening method.......JC is very good with this method and you can search Landshark160...Chris Spikes....He posted a very good tutorial on here with lots of pics using this method.....We use it a lot on both broadheads and Knives....GOOD LUCK and be Careful
Thanks, Don. I'd like to try it with my Grizzly Stik Samurai single bevels.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa102/Redriderxx/Sam.jpg)
Good Luck Tim...Maybe JC and/or Landshark160 will be along soon....both have used this system on Single bevels...
If your going to try to sharpen 3 or 4 blade heads I'd go put a few pints of your blood in storage at the e.r. One wrong move and BAMM! No telling where that head will end up.
On the other hand.... (the one w/out the bright red stream shooting out) :scared: ..... for 2 blade heads thats ALL I use. Not that brand but the same type system. It is possible to get an extremely sharp edge on knives and broadheads.
i use this system for 2 BLADE HEADS, knives, and axes. this is the best sharpening system IMO and only takes about 2 minutes to get a head or knive shaving sharp. once you get yours, youll have to practice with a few b heads so u can learn what angles to use. once u figure it out, its an amazing system. this is good on 2 blade heads only. be careful too when you do a head with bleeders. i made that mistake last year when sharpening a zwickey...quite a bit of blood on the garage floor. you should also wear a pair of leather gloves while using the system!
We have a set of these in our shop. They will tune a knife or 2 blade head but, as stated above, I wouldn't think of goin near that wheel with a multiblade head.
Couple other notes from our experience with the system- Maintaining a consistant angle is very critical when sharpening with anything. That's very true even with these wheels (stated repetedly in the instructions) and that's easier said than done.
I also found that it was very easy to overheat a blade on the abrasive wheel no matter how much wax we put on it.
I'm not a fan of combining high RPMs and sharp objects. I've had 2 Grizzlies yanked out of my hand and go richocheting around the shop. (Never found either one).There's a saying in woodworking about using power tools- "If you're not completely comfortable with the machine set-up, don't try it.
All that said, The paper wheels do work very well and will produce some of the best edges you've ever seen when used correctly. Just make sure the wheel is spinning away from you, and be very carefull.
Ron
I'm pretty sure Monty uses a regular stone grinding wheel for the 3 blades, not a paper wheel. That is how the Rothhaar's and many other folks do them. It works WELL.
I've use the paper wheel system quite a bit over the last 9 years or so. Works great on 2 blade heads and if you are sharpening challenged you certainly learn with a few practice heads how to get that mirrored razor sharp edge. Only bad thing is draggin that 15# grinder and 10,000 feet of extension cord into the woods :goldtooth:
It's all in playin with the angles and watching that wire edge form and disappear with each progressive "flip." You can also easily oversharpen...polishing so much you dull the blade...but you'll figure that out.
As mentioned, make sure the wheel is spinning away from you.
I've used the paperwheel a couple of times for sharpening 3 blades. The last time I went a bit too far with my pressure and the leading edge hit the wheel while trying to sharpen the trailing edge. The 3 blade ended up sunk into a sheetrock wall after it was ripped out of my hand. Thankfully, no blood was lost in the process but the crease in seat of my office chair remains there today. I would highly, HIGHLY recommend not using the wheel for a 3 blade unless you take extreme care.
Yikes...thanks for all the great replies, but I am getting scared. I am one of those guys that can get hurt by tools. :knothead: I tried one of the Redi Edge for single bevels from ABS...possibly I am doing it incorrectly, but I haven't found it to be effective.
Man, a semi-sharp broadhead and a rapidly spinning grinder sound like a recipie for disaster to me.
I will stick to my diamond hones. I'm dangerous enough without moving parts...
Tim,
Send them to Sharpster, he will fix them up for you!
Andy
They are safe for 2 blade heads and knives and etc. I use mine all the time. But never anything that can get into the wheel going the wrong way. I screwed up once and put a knife into it going the wrong way. VERY SCARY ! I took the base off my bench grinder ( I set one up for sharpening only and I advise that ) and turned it 180 degrees so now I can sharpen off the top of the wheel as the wheel turns way from me. One thing I done was to use a protractor and put various angle markings on the side of the wheel. Before hitting the switch I put 0 degrees straight up at 12 oclock. The degree marks remind me of about where to hold the blade while sharpening. I'd like to make a jig to do it but have not figured out how yet.BTW, use the beeswax looking stuff, it'll help keep the steel from getting too hot.
Red Boar,
Look up some sites on sharpening wood chisels. Wood workers have been sharpening single bevel wood chisels for years using systems like that. Nothing new, works perfect, produces a razor sharp edge very quickly. dino
I have a benchtop belt system made in Canada that rotates away from you and I can sharpen Woodsmans, any other broadhead as well as knives, scissors etc. Has a diamond belt and then a leather strop to hone that final edge. This rig was originally designed for sharpening chisels and carving knives. I'll look at it (its in my barn) and post some info tomorrow.
If you get the metal to hot on a belt or grinder it will take the temper out and make them soft . a friend of mine did this with a grizzly head and shot an elk and it bent on a rib bone - just curled over.
I started useing paper and felt wheels a couple years ago to speed up getting my simmons ready.It is a little learning curve but works great once you get the hang of it.I only do two blades however and have not tried a 3 blade or any single bevel heads..
As stated above, these wheels work great and will put a razor edge on just about anything in a few minutes. Only 2 blade heads and knives go near mine but I wouldn't be caught without it. I need to recondition the abrasive wheel this weekend. I highly recommend these wheels if you're the least bit sharpening challenged.
Dear Red Boar and friends,
It's not often that I get a chance to spend time on the forums but did see your question about bench grinders used as sharpeners. Over the years, it's not very often that I find a product that really gets me excited but the first time that I used the grinding and honing wheels on a knife and broadhead, I was totally impressed. The Broadhead Pro (double and single bevel versions) works great in the field but since they only have one steel cutting blade, sharpening a set of broadheads can take a lot of time if you have dull blades with a high bevel angle.
How sharp is sharp? In my opinion, the German Kinetics Silver Flame was the standard by which all other broadheads are judged for sharpness. But I could never figure our how Markus got his wonderful broadheads so sharp. Until now. They are honed and polished on special wheel systems. I've finally found that system. We now use it at the factory on our line of GrizzlyStik broadheads and have one in the shop to resharpend customers used heads. Being the capitalist that I am, it just made sense to offer the system for sale to bowhunters....because it works. Take a look at this YouTube video on how sharp a broadhead can get.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMxwrLUHgdk
We just uploaded our first demonstration video which we will have on our web site soon showing the safe and proper use of the GrizzlyStik Razor Sharp System. Check out our site in a couple hours for a look see. Or visit this url now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtG2oaxuUpI
Cheers,
Ed Schlief
Alaska Bowhunting Supply
Nice demonstration video...I am intrigued. :saywhat:
The sharpener that I was referring to above is called the "Ultimate Power Sharpener in the Chipping away catalog(1-888-682-9801) or www.chippingaway.com (http://www.chippingaway.com)
Sharpster,
Have you ever considered adapting your knife sharpener to a powered honing set up.
Advantage of maintaining a perfect angle and keeping fingers away from the sharp bitey bits.
Hey Woody,
We might do some kind of power sharpening system in the future but, the knife sharpener with an x-fine stone will get knives and broadheads every bit as sharp as the paper wheels with far less liability insurance needed.
I'd still like to see a couple of your new heads.... hint, hint.
Ron
Hey Guys,
Here's the new ABS sharpening video. I had to fix something in the first one and then deleted it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNUa-22n5w0
todd smith
Ron,
Sounds like you are trying to scare people when you mention liability insurance. However, you bring up a good point to Woody but I believe your reasoning is misdirected. The power table saw has undoubtedly cut off more fingers than the cross cut hand saw. So would you let an unsupervised 6 year old use a power table saw? Improper firearm safety practices can result in injuries and death. Would you give an unsupervised 6 year old a firearm? Of course you wouldn't because you are responsible. Table saws don't cut off fingers and guns don't kill people. The GrizzlyStik Razor Sharp System is a power tool that sharpens to an incredible razor edge but the user must know how to use it safely. That's why our System comes with a complete instruction booklet as well as a video demonstration available on our web site.
Ed,
Sorry, I wasn't trying to scare anyone. I was talking about liability insurance for any power sharpening system as compared to a manual system. I said in my first post, the paper wheels work great... and they do... no doubt about it. Just that sharp edges and high RPMs can be a potentially dangerous combination.
The referance to woodworking tools was simply to point out that using the wheels also has potential for injury and if someone isn't comfortable with the set up, be it a table saw, router, the paper wheels, or whatever, then it's best to error on the safe side.
I've been using these wheels for years and even I've had a couple broadheads yanked out of my hand and go flying. Again, I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't use them, just that we have to be very careful when using them, that's all.
Ron
Ed and Ron,
My apology, I was not intending to start a discussion on the merits of different sharpening systems.
I have Ron's KME sharpeners ( which are very good) and also I'm very interested in Ed's power sharpening system.
My interest is in sharpening lots of broadheads quick and easy.
I was thinking that a marriage of both your sharpening systems would be very interesting to me.
I think I will be calling in an order for a power sharpener.
The one that is made by Chipping away is rotating away from you and is a belt and is very safe and maintaining control is not a problem. The unit occupies very little space and is highly transportable. I will post pictures.
Ultimate Power Sharpener- (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/th_100_3895.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/?action=view¤t=100_3895.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/th_100_3894.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/?action=view¤t=100_3894.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/th_100_3893.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/?action=view¤t=100_3893.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by Sharpster:
I've been using these wheels for years and even I've had a couple broadheads yanked out of my hand and go flying. Again, I'm not suggesting that people shouldn't use them, just that we have to be very careful when using them, that's all.
Yup :readit: .
The flexible band type sharpeners are superior to all the other methods in my opinion. I would think the majority of the knife makers out there use that type of system. However, they are a lot more expensive than the $20 harbor freight grinder and a $30 Razor Sharp Systems paper wheel which works remarkably well on any 2 blade head.
That said, I've had lots of broadheads that would peel paper, mirror edge, cut your eyeballs, face shave sharp etc. and they didn't kill any better than a properly file/stone sharpened head. The majority of my 2 blade heads are done on the paper wheel but all my 3 blades are file & stone; I usually have couple of each in my quiver...both work equally well.
And as far as Silver flames, I'm not sure what he's using to hone his heads but I'll bet he's using a jig to get a perfect final angle. Even with all my experience with a paper wheel, I've never seen a broadhead edge come out as perfect as his do. Does anyone know his exact method? I'd like to spend a day looking over his shoulder.
JC,
I've heard from several sources that Markus uses an elephant hide leather strop system of some type. I would guess that the details of the system are proprietary though I'm not certain. Thanks,
Ron
JC, when you say flexible band type sharpeners, could you be a little more specific. Not being a knife maker, I'm not sure what you're refering too.. I sure like to use the best equipment I can get my hands on !!
Thanks,
pb
Pat, I'm not sure of the specific brand but both Doug Campbell and Tippit use one as a multifunction grinder/sharpener...and they make some incredible knives. The one Cedar Swampman posted at the bottom of page 2 is a smaller version of theirs. With a unit like that you can do a 3 blade (on the vertical portion of the belt), flat grind a 2 blade (again on the vertical), and even get a hollow grind (on the top of the wheel). There's a local guy, who although isn't the caliber of knife maker as Doug or Tippit, uses one of these types of units and he has some of the sharpest pieces of steel I've ever held. He's built an adjustable jig that keeps the blade at a specific angle and using the belt type system just gets an unbelievable edge.
One negative I've found about all the mirror edges, using whatever method you choose to obtain them, is their durability. My personal experience is that an edge just slightly courser than a mirror finish is maybe 90% just as sharp but far more durable. This is especially true of knife blades where they will be used more than one cut like a broadhead.
ttt
That's a 1x20" belt sander. You can buy them pretty reasonably. Not sure what a quality belt that would work for sharpening would set you back, though. I imagine you would want somethign 1200+ grit for that.
Not sure about the one in the pic, but the one I've seen at tippit's is definitely not like the belt sander that I have in my shop. The belt sander doesn't have enough give in the belt because of the backing plate behind the belt. It also doesn't rotate on it's axis to easily get to the open wheel for hollow grinding (mine also is encased in a safety shield).
Tippit did say that he liked the belts that were worn out from grinding did the best job polishing. I'd ask him directly for more accurate info as I never used one myself only cut myself...I mean, felt the edge from them.
One thing I like about the Ultimate Sharpener and I don't know if the others operate like this but it rotates away from the user so there is no chance of catching the blade and having an accident.
QuoteOriginally posted by cedar swampman:
Ultimate Power Sharpener- (http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/th_100_3895.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/?action=view¤t=100_3895.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/th_100_3894.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/?action=view¤t=100_3894.jpg)
(http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/th_100_3893.jpg) (http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee131/pdj317/?action=view¤t=100_3893.jpg)
I visited their site and watched the demonstration videos...impressive! Anyone want to buy me one for an upcoming birthday? :p