Ok guys let the voting begin...who makes the better single bevel regardless of price...Grizzly or Abowyer?
Use the search feature and you will get a lot of information about both of these broadheads.
I think the grizzly has the toughest, hardest steel making them the BEST. BUT, the grizzly takes the most amount of work to prepare them to the "Ashby" recommendations making them the WORST.
IMHO
Rob
PS-I don't believe any stainless broadhead from anyone is as hard and tough as the grizzly.If you research knife blade materials you will find that most stainless can not match the best "non stainless" such as D2 for hardness and toughness. Samuria swords were not stainless.
they are both 52c.
They are both good heads but to me the Abowyer are just higher end mainly because they are more of a finished product ready to hunt when you get them. The Grizzlys are cheaper and if you have the time/skill to sharpen them you will have a fine broadhead for less money.
Never shot the Abowyers but its hard to beat a Grizzly. Takes a little patience and practice to put an edge on but well worth it. Plus a curved tooth file to reset the initial bevel helps a lot.
Proabably much like the bows discussed here at TG. Some like one and some like the other. I would get a package of both heads and see which works best for you. I like the Abowyer a little more but mainly because I don't have the patience or skill set to put a proper edge on a Grizzly. I have friends who do though- and they swear by them.
As said - 6 to one have dozen to the other - but I like 160 grizzles but never tried the Abowyer so cannot give a proper vote. Grizzles take work and should come altered up but then again you really do not have to follow that rule? I just think if Mr Ashby went through all that hard trouble I should follow the guideline set forth for optimum performance!
Seriously I file the edge down that is about all I do for them - takes a bit but Ron at Sharpster is getting my next pack! let him do the work!!!!
J
Both are great heads but I have to say the Abowyer is by far the better of the two.
Grizzlies are two piece heads that are stamped, and brazed together. The blade thickness at the forward end is about .050
The Abowyers are constructed from one solid blade that's around .075-.080 thick and the precision machined ferrule is welded into the blade.
Like I said, both are great heads but the Abowyers are anti-tank heads and IMHO they are the best single bevel heads for the money available anywhere.
Ron
I have both. Technicalities be as they may I have found no practical difference between the modified Grizzly and the bone stock ABowyer.
Of course you must modify the Grizzly to the desired 175 grain weight with the 25 degree angle, I can do this easy so it is not really an issue.
The Abowyer is very easy to sharpen with Sharpster's tools
killed 3 deer this past fall,all with the abowyer, 145g with 75 g threaded inserts.i've already bought 6 more for the fall season.grissly's are a pain to put a 25 degree bevel on.
To me these heads perform equaly in the field, so it is a matter of time versus money. Would you rather have the 2 hours it will take to put a proper bevel on the 6 pack of grizzlys by hand or the extra 40 dollers it will cost to buy 6 abowyers. Once you have the initial sharpening of the grizzlys done they resharpen about the same as the abowyers. Figure in the personal satisfaction you get out of preparing your broadheads and you have your answer. Also note, that if you do not have a good quality file, grinder or sander necessary to put the initial edge on the grizzly,the cost difference is less.
What Sharpster said....
I have both- abowyer much better prepared overall- sharper,seems to be stronger and comes in both left and right bevels. I just bought a doz. brown bears and am just really impressed.
QuoteOriginally posted by IronCreekArcher:
Ok guys let the voting begin...who makes the better single bevel regardless of price...Grizzly or Abowyer?
How can you vote and ignore price, I go through a dz or 2 broadheads per year, so like most Amarican's, I want the Best for the least amount of money.
I can buy 6 grizzly's for around $20 bucks for the 160 & $23 bucks for 6 El Grande's, or $40 for 3 Abowyers, now if it comes with a little African tracker that jumps out of the box and finds my animal for me, I want 10dz.
I have not shot the Abowyer and it does look to be bomb proof, however is it twice as good? because it cost twice as much.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kingwouldbe:
How can you vote and ignore price
Easy Dave...
Just pretend like they are free and answer the man's question like Sharpster did.... :bigsmyl:
King, I think the Abowyer probably is twice as good - as far as design and construction is concerned..
Now whether they'll kill your animals twice as dead, hmm...
But me, I like value and quality. I think the Abowyer's offer those, I'm going to use them.
Kingwouldbe,
Abowyers are about 3 times as much, $40 for 3 (or $80 for 6) versus $28 for 6 grizzlies.
Green-T, Oh pretend lol :D Then I think I'll have to go with the Aboyers
Just curious Sharpster,
what do you charge to sharpen 6 grizzly el grande's or supply pre-sharpened? that would make the playing field more even (price wise)so that they are both sharp when purchased, Aboyer and grizz.
Rob
At the risk of high-jacking the thread...
We get $50 per 6 pre-sharpened Grizzlies or Tuskers if you buy them direct from us, plus $5.50 for priority mail shipping.
If you send me your heads to sharpen, we get $5 apiece plus the same $5.50 for shipping (inside the US).
So, if we take price into consideration when comparing the heads, the Abowyers are $40 for 3 ($13.33 each) and the pre-sharpened Grizzlies are $55.50 per 6 ($9.17 each).
Although that gets the price of both heads closer together, it still doesn't make the Grizzlies as bullet-proof as the Abowyers. Lets not high-jack the thread . If anyone is interested or has any questions, just send me a PM.
Ron
800 561-4339
I'll add this to the mix; I did not think that the Abowyer Brown Bear was actually a true 3:1 head that meets the Ashby dimensions as does the modified Grizzly. Therefore, as long as the modified Grizzly doesn't fail due to lesser construction, it should have the mechanical advantage over the Abowyer. The Grizzly is cheaper to buy and is still cheaper when you include sharpening, even if you pay someone to do it for you. I think the Grizzly is the hands down winner for being the biggest bang for the buck. You can get a ton of service out of a Grizzly. But, the Abowyer does appears to be one heckuva stout near turn key head that fills a certain niche. If the STOS version with the Ashby specs out of the pack ever hits the shelves, both the Abowyer and the Grizzly will probably loose some of the market share.
Best,
DB
Abowyer wins hands down-I used to be sold on Grizzlies till the first Abowyers arrived.
Given proper shot placement with a single bevel head (irrespective of manufacturer) what are the blood trails like? I know they will be short but what about amount of sign on the ground? The reason I ask is that I hunt thick swamps where blood is easily lost in the vegitation. Are the blood trails just as good or better than a good multi-bladed head placed in the same spot?
Just for the sake of asking...If you know big, multi bl. heads make for great bloodtrails, why not use one of them? After all, you are talking deer right?
Hi guys,
Got a call today about this hot topic on the web and thought i should respond. Before responding I would like to say this is a great site and there is a lot of knowledge on here. First, let me give you a little bit of history on Grizzly Broadheads. As we all know Harry Elburg first made them and then sold the business to Jim Abel. At the time i was talking to Jim about buying the business, we were at the kentucky shoot working through details when he got the call that his shop had burned down. I called Jim and told him we would be willing to help him to rebuild his business and get Grizzly back on the ground and running again. He said he was done and would sell me what was left. And so my adventure with Grizzly Broadheads began. As you can see i started in the hole because of all the the retooling and replacing of equipment from the fire. When I started this business I expected it to be my full time job and support my family, as many of you know that are in the traditional archery business that isn't always the case and I had to take on a full time job and make broadheads on my own time. That was 1997 when I took over, and made many improvements to the Grizzly. Some of the changes have been adding more weights and changing the angle on the heads. One example would be the 190's and 150's angles have changed over the past years and are now a 26 degree instead of a 30 degree. Yes, I am working on changing the angle and making a new head with a left grind at 25 degrees. It's not going to happen over night guys but I am working on it. I can't just throw a 25 degree on them and call it good. When you start changing degrees you start to loose alot of weight. So right now i am assesing the best way for Grizzly Broadheads to move forward. I don't want to put something on the market that i am not happy with. Dave, I believe it was you that sent a letter about my lighter wolverines and you were right the tip was too thin. So I took them off the market and reworked them so now they are made out of stronger steel. The bottom line is, I want to build a product that people are happy with before I throw it on the market and it is going to take some changes to the grizzly before I get it right where I want it. I understand the typical hunter is changing and we have to be able to change with them. What I mean is, gone is the day that a hunter pulled out his trusty file and worked on his broadheads, the hunter of today wants it now and ready to go with little effort involved. And we need to change grizzly to meet those demands. Before I go back to work, I would also like to state that Harry and Jim have always helped me when I run into problems. And for the record i never paid Doctor Ashby to write all those aricles and he always insisted on paying for his own broadheads, he wouldn't even take them for free. I do respect all of the different thoughts on here and it does help a business to go grow and see where they are lacking. Thanks for your time and imput and I hope this sheds some light on grizzly broadheads. I am happy being the person behind the scenes making them and not thumping my chest and trying to make myself famous. I get more joy out of reading articles and sucessful hunting stories about them and the hunters that used them. thanks again
Shawn
shawn
Ah... Shawn...... I'll take those heads the Doc. turned down :goldtooth: LOL I'm sorry did I say that out loud.
Jump up and tell em Pat.....I have seen how sharp you broadheads are and I see how well you can shoot. You could kill something with a sharp skick.
Thanks, Shawn for taking time to share your story sensibly and factually. It was an interesting history lesson for me.
KME's Ron Swartz has consistently reported that Grizzlies are some of the hardest steel bh on the market. He's shared repeatedly that he's sharpened them, allowed them to lie around and corrode some, and when he wanted to dull the one bevel to work on something in testing, he's had a devil's own time to dull the edge. Hard steel holds an edge extremely well.
As you've said, it does take a bit more effort to "alter" your heads made of super hard steel (that will hold an edge once achieved) to the Ashby profile. I lack the patience and the skill so I will get the altered Griz from KME.
I'm still working out the weights for my EFOC, but will likely get the 190's Ron alters to 175 gr.
Where there is a void, someone else usually steps in and provides the service. I thank you for making blanks available ( along with other Mfg's) so KME can provide the Ashby left single bevel/tanto tip in the near term while you consider the costs of re-tooling and changing production.
I hope the Grizzly 190 Broadhead stays with the hard steel, and I hope that it is not softened down to make it easier for the guys who never learned to sharpen hard steel. That is a major plus with the Grizzly in that once sharp, it holds a great edge and it holds that great edge through much abuse because of its good steel.
Second, whichever mods are made, I hope it maintains the same overall profile of the modified Ashby design once properly sharpened. I've been getting the low to mid 170s in grain weight when I have them properly sharpened with the Ashby angles. Leaving the old 30degree bevels, I've been hitting the 180s when sharp. The 175grain range has worked well and I'm pleased with the end product once the work is done to ready the broadhead for field use. There is clearly an incredible head within the factory packaged 190 once the experienced archer has whittles away the extra fluff. In my view, the head is nothing short of genius in its simplicity. I'll cross my fingers that any changes made will bring the factory head closer to those magical dimension and not change it to the point that they are completely lost.
Best of luck Shawn, and if it means anything, I just mounted another 1/2 dozen of your 190s that were modified and I took approximately 100 shots today on my 3D course shooting nothing but hunting arrows tipped with Grizzlies:) Biggest bang for the buck out of any broadhead I've ever used! And yes, I'm one of those guys who uses a file as part of the traditional archery experience:)
Best,
Daddy Bear
How about the trailing guys...whats the blood trails like with the single bevel heads?
I took 9 deer last season w/the 190 gr el grande 3 of the bloodtrails were profuse 3 were moderate and the other 3 I was hunting in the rain and never checked the trail watched all 3 drop inside of 40 yards.On a side note 2 were shot thru the scapula (string contact bulky clothes.]and 1 was shot in the ham were the ball joint and pelvis connect (deflect on small branch.)In all 3 cases the bone damage was extreme.Also 8 of the 9 were shot with the same broadhead.The 8th shot was a passthru into a large rock and ruined the broadhead.Call me a believer that 190 is awsome.P.S. Shaun I'm with DB stay with the hard steel Its a PITA but when sharp its scary sharp.