OK....So I've been shooting a LB for a couple years. I've also been shooting all wrong for a couple years.
After getting and looking at MBBIII, I realized I've NEVER utilized back tension to trigger my release. I realized yesterday (forst day on the blank bail) that a 52# LB isn't anything to sneeze at. I shot my compound at 66-60#'s.
So.....I've got a custom recurve on order. I sent the bowyer a note today and said I'd like to chsnge from 52#'s to 50#'s.
My question is (other than the obvious of "5#'s), is there a HUGE difference in performance between 50#'s and 45#'s....if I decided I wanted to go even lower? I hunt eastern whitetails and turkeys, but might go after elk in 2010 with the bow.
I'm 44, and I'm buying this bow with the full intention of it being my go to hunting bow for many years to come.
Bottom line, do you think I'd be happy with a 45# bow? I'm an active (ex-collegiate baseball player and PGA Professional) 6'1"/195# guy.
I have NO pride issues with shooting 45#'s....IF it'll perform for what I want it to.
What happens if you're UNDERbowed?
Thanks. I appreciate all comments.
hey jeff im pretty new to this so i cant be of to much help but i know for sure that a 45 lb bow will do just fine on your deer and turkey not sure about the elk sorry i could be o fmore help
an archer's goal is to be consistently accurate, a bowhunter's goal is to harvest game - one thing leads to the other and in that order.
if you can be significantly more accurate under hunting conditions holding 45# rather than 50/52#, you have the answer to yer main question.
45# for elk? someone more knowledgeable than i can answer that, but my gut reaction is that 45# holding weight would only work well if all the right parameters lined up - meaning, more holding weight and a heavier arrow would be best for big game. for whitetail and turkeys, 45# and a 450-500 grain sharp broadhead will pass through each at reasonable hunting distances.
i do think there is such a thing as being 'underbowed' - you want to hold reasonably comfortable at anchor, but with enough holding weight to allow for a fast near-surprise release when yer brain gets the green light.
it takes time and practice to move up in holding weight, and sometimes that's just part of bowhunting - and perhaps a good enuf reason to have more than one bow :cool: . the more holding weight you can easily control will make it at least somewhat easier to take game, imho.
I was talking to someone I trust, just now, and the point came up that I could always order another set of limbs for bigger game (if that unfolds in the future).
I have a 52# longbow, but to be honest....if it was 50#'s it wouldn't hurt my feelings.
I have one of those on order (LB), too. I do plan to switch it to 50#'s.
Jeff,
Is your custom bow on order a one-piece or a three-piece takedown. If it is a takedown, then I most definately would go for the 45# to begin with. Once you get your form, and shooting style down the way that you want it, a new set of limbs is a whole lot cheaper than a whole new bow.
I've got a takedown longbow now, and have three more on order. They will all be very close to 43# @ my 29 inch draw. I can always get another set of limbs. Actually I am going to order my second set of limbs for my Blacktail for around 50#.
Shooting a lower draw weight will really show you the flaws in your shooting form. It can be a bit tricky at first to get a smooth release. When I get used to a grip on a bow, I don't have to worry about getting another riser, to get accustomed to. Thats the way I think, anyways.
Winterhawk1960
Last year I dropped from #65-60 to #45-50. I shot so much better, felt more confident, and worked on good form and back tension that I was stoked when season got here. I took 3 deer and a turkey using #45, none of the deer ran out of sight, two the arrow blanked right thru, rib to rib, the other was ribs on each side and busted a shoulder blade with a WW, 125gr steel insert/threaded for carbons instead of the 25 gr. factory one. They didnt seem to mind that they were shot with only #45.I have sold all my heavy bows since, am shooting #43-55, aint looking back. Easier on the joints too. I am nocking on 47, just had rotator cup surgery 2 weeks ago, do your self a favor now, dont regret it later.
Jeff, another thought crossed my mind after we finished talking. The more you work with proper use of back tension the easier it should be to draw your bow. It may feel funny at first, but the back muscles are very strong and I think you will find that it is actully easier than before.
If it weren't for the possibility of elk in the future 45# would be plenty for the game you are hunting. But an extra set of limbs could sure solve that issue.
Rob does make a good point about the release though. There is certainly something to be said about the string from a heavier weight jumping cleanly from your fingers.
Like most things in picking the right bow, everything involves trade offs, and there is no such thing as the "perfect" bow that covers every factor. You just have to figure out what is the best fit for YOU ;)
oh, it's a 3pc longbow - imho, go with the 45# limbs since this year it's deer and turk.
for bigger game, either use yer current 52# longbow, or order out heavier limbs for this new bow.
fwiw, my t/d hunting longbow is 55#, but most of the time for roving i'm shooting 46# or sometimes 50#. as stated b4, there's a definite advantage to higher holding weight - but don't overbow yerself in the process! i think you'll reallty appreciate having that 45# ... there was a time in yesteryear when 45# was considered pretty much the norm holding weight for woods hunting (a recurve in the nor'east).
Depends on bow design of the 45 lber to how much performance difference.
With your size and fitness level, you should be able to work into the heavier weights without any problem. But, only if you need to or want to.
PLenty of deer sized critters end up on the dinner plate at the hands of 40-45# bows. Fred Bear built 90% of his bows in that range.
A good friend once asked me " How far do you want the arrow to go after it goes out the other side of the deer?".
That being said, my first longbow is 57#@ 28". Before I ordered that one, I worked through a range of recurves from 40-50# . I love that bow, and shoot it often. My 2nd longbow I ordered 52#@27". All in all a little lighter than #1. broke it in with a 7pt buck this past fall.
My wifes longbow is 41#@28". I shoot it a lot for form practice. Light wieght, comfortable as all get out to shoot. I am definitely more accurate with it, and I I use it to focus on form, then when I shoot my heavier bows, my form is better and I shoot them better. If I feel bad habits forming, I immediately go back to the lighter bow to resolve them.
A couple months before huntin season, I decide which bow I'm gonna hunt with, and that is the only bow I shoot till the season ends. I can tell you 45# is too light for elk in my opinion. . They are thick skinned, thick haired and big boned. I've seen elk killed with 52#, with a heavy arrow and a close shot. no 35 yds shots with that setup.
Since you are getting a 3 pc takedown then I agree with what some of the others say, go lighter to start, then order a heavier set of limbs later if thats an option for you. At my draw length, both my bows are 50-53#. Plenty for me,and with arrows pushing 600gr, penetration is not a problem.(unless you hit an elk shoulder. But then they stop everything)
I think you'll find a vast majority of trad archers have bows in a range of weights.. Or at least started out that way. Good luck and good shooting to you.
45# will kill any game in North America. Hitting where your aiming is the key imho
Jeff, I am also 44 years old and have been overbowed for many years myself. I used to shoot mid 50 pound bows and have recently gone to 50 pounds. I couldn't be happier. I enjoy shooting much more than I ever did because its just plain fun when your not struggling with a heavy bow.
A string can make a huge difference in all bows performance. I have a Schafer Silvertip at 50 lbs that I have four different strings for. The B-50 string I have for it is dead quiet but just doesn't give the arrow the boost. I have a padded loop D-97 FF string on it now and the performance is much better without too much noise increase. My point is with the four strings I have it is a totally different bow with each of them on it.
As far as 48 lbs. being enough for whitetails. You bet it is. I have a friend with a 43 lb bow that's killed more deer with it than anyone I know. His bow is shooting the arrows perfectly straight and he gets pass throughs most of the time. The arrow flying perfect is much more important than the weight of the bow in my opinion.
Go for it. You will be surprised at your accuracy increase with less pounds.
MAN, That's a relief.......I thought yall were kicking me out.... :)
I started with a 45# bow, went right into a few 60-65#'ers, started dropping back into the 50's, and now in the mid 40's. I'm shooting better than ever and I can do it all day!
It took me 20yrs to come full circle back to 45#, my neck and shoulders wish I had never shot those heavier wts.
I have a custom Brackenbury on order. Originally I wanted 47# but after thinking that I want to shoot this bow for the rest of my life I changed my order to 45#. My joints will thank me many years from now.
I'm planning on hunting deer and hogs with this bow and feel confident that it is plenty.
Yeah Don, I logged on to vote for keeping you but found they were only discussing draw weight...
45# is low for elk. Many states require "50# at your draw length" to be legal. I shoot bows of all (Mid to Low) draw weight and there are trade offs for ease of draw vs. release/form issues.
To learn form, you want to be underbowed. This allows you to learn full draw and back tension. Then, you can move up to hunting weight and it will feel easy, especially with the adrenalin of the moment of truth.
Here's one for ya.... I recently got an ACS in a trade from a buddy. The bow is 50lb @ 28, I usually shoot 60 lbs at 28" inches. Well after several weeks of shooting this bow I noticed that I was drawing the 30" arrow off the rest. I ended up with at 31.5" arrow to be able to shoot a BH without hitting the riser. I think my draw length is a solid 31" that would put my draw weight at about 60lbs. Funny thing is my accuracy is better than it has ever been and my joints and muscles are not near as soar. I guess moral of the story is to see how far you comfortably shoot lower poundage's before moving up.
Knew I could count on you Shaun.....Sending you a PM........My Draw Wt. story is ...2 Years ago I had some surgery Just before a very important hog hunt...Talked to the Dr. and he had never shot a bow and said no shooting so I carried my bow to him to let him draw it...I showed him a 44lb. longbow and he said maybe after he had drawn it several times...So with out telling my wife I was gonna hunt, Sky and I started plotting our strategy....Anyway I shot that 44lb. bow with a Simmons LANDSHARK 160 GR tipped Arrow for a total wt. of 440 grains....and shot completely thru 3 hogs.....AND Skyler has killed 7 hogs shooting 42 to 47lbs...and had 2 holes in everything....
A big part of archery is having fun.Lighter weight bows that you can shoot more and usually learn to shoot better with is well... just more fun. :D
Here 40lbs will kill anything you run up against and you can always get more limbs for the elk trip.You will improve your shooting with the 45lb bow more than enough to make up for than 5 lbs of weight difference will make.The biggest mistake most every archer makes is trying to shoot more weight than they need to or are really cabable of shooting well.jmho
"Bottom line, do you think I'd be happy with a 45# bow?"
Yes.
Your draw length might go up a tad and that's 'free' K.E. too! :thumbsup:
I have a takedown with 58# limbs... im getting ready to get some new ones made at about 47# for all of my hunting and shooting down here and keep the 58's for when I move up north.
I can shoot quit a shot with the 58s but i notice my back getting tired and form lacking pretty quick...
I love hunting but i LOVE TO SHOOT... so more arrows means more fun to me
Question No. 2....
I'm pulling the trigger on the 45# model. I know I'll be OK with it.
Right now I'm shooting CX 150's out of a 52# Mohawk LB. The recurve I'm getting (45#'er) is cut 1/16" past center.
What's the chances I can shoot the same arrows.....or do you think I'm gonna have to go to CX 90's?
cut 29" 100g brass insert 125 broadhead, that should get you close... I used the dynamic spine calculator... it predicted my arrows spot
Ill let some more experienced guys with that poundage chime in
What does it say if I leave them at 30"?
That's what I'm shooting, now, with 50gr. brass inserts and 125 up front.
Thanks.
jeff, just shoot yer current arras, you'll most likely be just fine. as in golf, archery is an aiming sport that depends lots on form.
no matter how yer shooting right now, proper aiming is the logical extension of solid form. aiming the arrow means that arra spine is far less importnat than if you aimed the bow.
the following article was an eye opener for me, and i shoot the same 29" carbon 500's out of bows that range 43# to 55# in holding weight, the only changes are in front end weight that tailor the gpp and foc ...
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=004545
For a second I thought "what could Don have done that is this bad"? :confused: :D
I started at 40, worked up to 65, dropped to 50, and now settled around mid to upper fifties. It was amazing how I was able, almost over night, to start shooting heavier bows when I discovered the right muscles. From there it's just a matter of staying in shape. There were several months a couple years ago where I didn't shoot. That's the only reason I dropped down from the 60's. Back into the upper fifties now. Don't really care to go any higher now.
This is all great advice, but one of my favorites is what James Wrenn said. It's all about the fun. Lighter bows allow more fun, plain and simple. When you've been having fun for a while and notice your accuracy, consistancy of form, and confidence are up (and they will be), go ahead and order some heavier limbs. By then your muscle memory will be such that you hardly notice difference.
You don't have to drop all the way to 45#! Go down to 47 or 48# ,a couple of # in your favor won't beat you up but will give you that extra perfomance your looking for. I have a Great Plaines SR Swift 48#@28" that I would hunt any thing with including Elk and sheep or mt. goats,all tough critters. A heavy arrow, sharp head, and shot placment is the recipe!!! ron w
as mentioned by someone already, lots does depend on the bow design - there's a large performance difference between a 45# hill style reflex longbow and a 45# aggressive hybrid r/d longbow .....
I have been impressed at how very little performance difference on game Ive gotten at weights from 42-58 lbs. When you are straining it may seem like you are harnessing awsome power but really bows don't function with huge energy inputs and outputs and a sharp broadhead tipped arrow works very similarly over the range of "normal" drawweights.
If you start dropping weight you will find that in time the lower weight begins to feel heavy. Better to work out a little and build up to the bow you have. Unless you are really over bowed to begin with.
a good way to work out is to overdraw yer bow an inch or so past anchor. do this a few times a day, and as part of yer shooting warm up.
If all your going to do is hunt with the 45# bow at under 20 yards go for it. But if your like me and you shoot alot of 3-D, 1-2 times a week, you may be disappointed like I was. My bows range from 50-64#'s in draw weight. I am pushing 64 years old. I am doing bow exercises and weights to maintain these bow weights.
I would stay at 55lbs. as long as you can. Like Onehair says about the lower weight feeling heavy. Even these days when time is money a person can find a few minutes to do some bow exercises. Even this old guy.
M60 just wondering what dissapointed you shooting 3d with a 45lb bow?
A 45 and 60 will shoot the same speed with the right arrows so really can't see the difference.Every bow I own reguardless of the weight can be set up to shoot as fast or slow as I need.Just wondered what your reasoning was.
I have bows from 43 pounds to 72 pounds. I am almost exactly your height and only a few pounds lighter. I am 56 years old, have had past shoulder injuries on both sides, had surgery on my right shoulder (I am right-handed) in December 2005, and even went through an almost life ending bout with stage 4 cancer a couple of years ago. So, I doubt my overall condition is as good as yours. A year ago I could barely draw a 45 pound bow. Now that weight is very easy for me to shoot, and I regularly shoot bows in the 50 to 60 pound range without problems. Like everyone else, I cannot shoot as many arrows in a session with the heavier weight bows as I can with the lighter weight bows, but up to the low 60's I can shoot almost as well. My form starts suffering noticeably when shooting bows above the low 60's. Mostly I shoot in the mid-50's with no problem at all.
Obviously, like all other archers, a 45 pound bow is easier to shoot than a 55 pound bow for me too, but the performance of the 55 pound bow in the same model of bow is much better, and the arrows hit with much more authority. Because some states require at least a 50 pound bow for elk, I don't see any reason to buy an "elk hunting bow" at less than 50 pounds, even if you might go to a state without that requirement.
If you get into a regular (almost daily) exercise program and build up slowly, even someone in my situation can easily get to the point that 50+ pounds is not difficult to shoot. It should be no problem for someone your size and in your condition. Even four months after cancer treatment I had trouble lifting 10 pounds. It took me more than a year of physical therapy before I could start thinking about shooting a bow again. At that point, in addition to working out with my physical therapist, I started using a BowFit exerciser every day to build up my strength and then started adding in the shooting of a 45 pound bow. At first I could barely draw the 45 pound bow to full draw and could not hold at all. I could only draw a 50 pound bow back to about 25 inches of my 29 1/2" draw length. Now, a year after starting shooting again, I can shoot my 70 pound bows for a short time and can shoot 55 pound bows for hours at a time. I shoot my 45 to 50 pound bows a lot for fun and form and can shoot hundreds of arrows from them without my form beginning to suffer much.
If all you intend to shoot is animals under 200 pounds, then a 45 pound bow is plenty, but a 600 pound elk is a totally different animal. A 45 pound bow at close range will definitely kill a big elk if shot broadside through the ribs, but quartering shots require more penetration and 45 pounds may not be enough to make a quick, clean kill. I will be hunting cape buffalo this June/July and my professional hunter is concerned that a 70 pound bow is too light. He is a trad bowhunter himself, so he understands what it takes. I can't shoot a heavier bow anyway, so I guess it will work or he will have to shoot the buffalo with a .470 Nitro Express following my failure.
A 30 pound bow with the right arrows and broadhead and with perfect shot placement can kill elk under many circumstances, just like a .22 long rifle cartridge can. In Africa they do culling operations on impala at night with .22 rimfire rifles and silencers and kill hundreds of impala in a single night, but no professional hunter would ever suggest that his client use a .22 rimfire to hunt impala or other similar sized game. Often people discuss the minimum weapon needed to kill animals; however, just like any other life and death endeavor, there should always be a significant overkill factor built in for the times when less than idea circumstances exist. Shooting at least a 50 pound bow on elk, especially if you are fortunate enough to encounter a 600+ pound bull rather than a 300 pound cow, seems to be a very good idea.
I obviously shoot lower poundage bows, but not often anymore. Onehair is right in saying that after dropping to a lower weight it will eventually begin to feel as heavy as the higher weight. I'm not disagreeing with anyone who says that you should not overbow yourself or that a 45 pound bow is adequate for deer, turkey or smaller hogs. Also, a 45 pound bow will always be easier to shoot than a 50 pound bow. If I were in your shoes I would get a very smooth drawing, fast 50 pound bow and do your regular exercises and shooting so you can shoot it easily. If you are working out with a BowFit exerciser and using it to draw and hold the equivalent of 55 to 60 pounds in an exercise mode, a 50 pound bow will feel as light as a 45 pound bow feels to you now.
One final note. I keep at least one bow strung all the time and have it sitting in my living room where I have to pass by it regularly. I pick it up almost every time I walk by it and draw and hold full weight until I begin to get the shakes. Then I put it down until I go past it again. If you are very stable in your exercises and don't strain to draw or hold the bow, you won't hurt yourself, but you will build up your strength and your ability to shoot a heavier bow very quickly -- certainly within a few months.
Sorry to be so lengthy here. It's just that I am your size and have been through the struggle of coming from near death, with no strength and previous shoulder surgery, to being able to easily shoot bows above 50 pounds. I just don't see any reason why you could not shoot 50 pounds with no problem and have a bow that would legally handle all the hunting you stated you wanted to do.
Allan
i think everyone's different, at least slightly. i see no issues with using a 45# stickbow for both hunting and target type events. a huge number of barebow hunting type events have been won with stickbows in the 45# and under range. larry yien has how many ifaa longbow world champ titles using his 43# 21st century edge?
anyhoo, all this stuff is just jabber and food for thought, and you surely need to do the testing yerself and see what works, what doesn't. the bottom line that we're all 'experiments of one'.
Lots of great comments here for you to mull over. I can't add much to what amar911 said, but I do agree with those who say a little extra cushion in draw weight for elk is good. If all I were to hunt was deer class animals, I doubt I would use anything heavier than 45#. However, I live in elk country and at age 64 I still believe I have a few elk hunts left in me. For that reason I work to keep in shape enough to be able to handle a mid-50's draw weight at my 27" draw. I'm only 5'8" and 157 lb, and I used to shoot 60-65# bows, but developed some minor shoulder problems, so I backed off a bit. I shot a 50#HH for a while to work on form. My latest HH blank came out at 57#, which seemed quite stiff for awhile, because I was so used to the 50#. My form suffered at first, so I had to work back and forth between the 50# and the 57# until I gradually got the muscle memory back to accepting the 57#. Now I am shooting the 57# and everything in between the two better than ever - with good form. Those who have told you that correct form enables you to shoot the heavier weights better and more comfortably are correct also. I guess my advice would be to drop back in poundage to develop your form, but don't forsake something a little heavier if you think elk hunting is in your future.
QuoteMy wifes longbow is 41#@28". I shoot it a lot for form practice. Light wieght, comfortable as all get out to shoot. I am definitely more accurate with it, and I I use it to focus on form, then when I shoot my heavier bows, my form is better and I shoot them better. If I feel bad habits forming, I immediately go back to the lighter bow to resolve them. [/QB]
This is EXACTLY why I went with #38@28" for my new Mohawk. I mostly shoot for fun now, but have 45,50 and 60 pound bows. I have no idea what my true draw length is going to be once I start into this again, but it will probably be somewhere between 29-30". Just like GMMAT, I want to "Start Over" and do it right, so this will be my 3D, Stumpin', Small Game and Form Perfectin' bow. With all the new discoveries discussed here that I missed over the past couple of years (EFOC, String Count, MoBB DVD's, Etc.), I CAN'T WAIT to start shooting every day like I used to!!! :archer:
Ive talked about this with many hunters, And the way I see it , its simple , hunters dont put enough time in , or practice...ya got to commit to it and work at it . Not just once in while thing...you should be able to work up to later. You should be able to sit in chair and pull ur bow back comfortable. ps DONT OVER DO IT...a little everyday...practice , practice...once weekend dont cut for me..good luck bud! Youll be shooting lights out in no time! :wavey:
lotta good stuff in this thread, could make for a good article. :cool:
'form' is so much easier to define and cultivate with an easy-to-hold bow. once the form feels natural, you'll know when it's wrong when applied to a heavier holding bow. all my form work and fun shooting/roving is with a 43# or 46# longbow. when it's hunt time, i'll gradually work out with the 55 pounder. this is best for me and my shoulder issues - not fun geting older!
one thing for sure, as bayou said, ya really gotta pull string daily to keep fit physically and mentally. even if ya don't release an arra, keep a bow strung and give'r a pull now and then (especially pulling *past* yer anchor and holding).
James, I just could not get used it. Maybe I was expecting more preformance from the light arrows than I got. I hear you when you said you can tune your bows to shoot the same. I just can not tune me!