Trad Gang

Guys I am using the 100 grain Magnus and am tired of the heads coming off the adapter and the tips curling while practicing.  I know a lot of guys like zwickey but they look so much like the Magnus it makes me nervous to buy with out asking you guys your thoughts.  I need a little heavier head and can buy them heavy enough that I can bob the tip so it does not curl if needed.  I am not trying to bust bone but I want to be able to shoot a 3D target without bent tips and leaving broadheads in my target because the dang glue did not hold.  What do you think?

Sorry I should have done a search on the zwickey.  I guess I just got on a roll.

No problem!  Those Zwickeys are tuff for sure.  You might want to take a look at Ace broadheads too.  IMHO they are just as tuff if not tuffer than the Zwicks.

I feel your pain with the magnus.I think they must oil coat the inside of the head before they glue them.I had the 100gr heads,and pulled three of them off the adapter.I also had 4 blade zwickey eskimos,Never pulled one off and they were stuck in trees,targets,snow and ice banks,and the ground.My complaint with the zwickeys is if you hit something hard you'll drive the adapter right into the ferrule.I have on most of mine,but they still shoot good.

I'm the type of person that if it work's I don't change it.Zwicky's are no differen.26 Years ago when switched over to a compound wasp's to a recurve and 2 dozzen zwicky's.12 Years ago when the season started I only had 3 left.Of these 2 dozzen broadheads at one time I had 5 different heads that had 2 or more kills on them with one haveing 7 kills on it.So Ihave no complaints.I got another dozzen and again I still have 4 left 14 years.

The Aboyer heads are sure getting good reviews.

I don't agree with the 'soft' comment.  I've never bent a stock Zwickey and I've been shooting them since the mid 80's.  I have bent a couple I modified but I remove too much metal behind the try lam.  My fault.

I have found them to be harder than magnus, as the Zs are harder to sharpen, but hold an edge longer....and the tips tent to chip instead of bent....meaning they are harder steel.

Proof of them being harder in the fact that I have bent magnus before, but only chipped the points on Zs....about the 1st 1/8th inch on off leg bones and rocks after pass throughs.

I can't say that I have bent a lot of magnus heads, as I didn't fool with them long as the Zs have never let me down....and I have a hard time leaving them with all the game I've killed with them due to their performance.

Not sure about the adapters driving into the furrel as I've never had that happen with Zs either...and last I heard, both are brazened by the same company.

I shot Zwickeys for a few years and agree with Terry's post. If I was interested in shoot a 4-blade head again, it'd definately be a Zwickey.

Ok you guys are making me feel better.  If I buy the Zwickey it will be the 135 grainers.  Nobody seems to be saying anything bad about them pulling off the factory adapter so they must hold pretty well?  On the lighter 135 grain head do you think it would be neccesary to put the chissel tip on it.

I've never seen factory broadhead adapters on Zwickeys. Shot them for 30 years and have no reason to change. But I have always put an adapter on, if shooting aluminum , myself. I just get the inside of the feral very hot to burn off all the oil and paint and do not have the problem of the head coming off in the target or game.

If you buy them loose and put them on adapters yourself you could easily solve the problem of them pulling off in targets.  As far as bending goes I have a Zwickey Delta that is on a 600 grain maple arrow that I have been stump shooting with for years out of my 64# recurve and it has never bent.  Eclipse also makes a very tough broadhead.

Stalkin4elk

I like the Abowyer head, too but they seem to be sold out.

I switched to only Zwickey's in the late 1980's.. I have NEVER had any issues whatsoever. I mean these are tough, effective and easy to get "crazy" sharp broadheads... They just work,, everytime!

John III

I just made the switch to the Deltas, and they seem great. I have them mounted on a 125 steel adapter. I Didnt have any problem getting them sharp....

I have shot Zwickeys for years and they are tough. Takes time to get them sharp but once they are sharp they are easy to touch up. If they have a fault is that they rust easy. I have started to wipe some mineral oil on them after sharpening and this seems to help.  ;)

I killed two deer with the same head last season, they work good for me. Four blade Black Diamond heads are my first choice.

Zwickeys are great heads.  I've shot through deer shoulders twice (oops) with a Zwickey 4 blade and 50-ish bows.  The Zwickey's seem to be a little harder steel to me than Magnus heads although Magnus passionately disagrees with that notion.    :knothead:  

The Magnus heads are excellent as well and I shoot them a lot, the Magnus you were using is one of the weakest heads they make and I'm sure that is part of your problem.  I think you'd find a 125 gr Magnus II glue on much stronger and Magnus does have the advantage of being easier to sharpen if that's an issue for you.

Good hunting whatever you choose.    :jumper:

I've bent a couple Zwicky on deer.

I kind of wish I had not put the 100 grain brass inserts in my arrows because it makes sense that a 100 grain broadhead is going to be more likely to bend than a bigger heavier broadhead.  I guess I am going to give Zwicky a try.  Thank you all for your comments.

i have had problems befor with magnus but every time i do i just take them back to the store where i got them and got new ones they have the warrenty for a reson i guess if your store won't do it send it back to them they will take it i take a lot of the stingers my wife mess's up back no questions asked i get new ones

I hear ya Jake...but I don't by a head for the warranty....I wanna head that don't need a warranty.  A new head is not even a consolation prize for a lost animal.

I used Zwickeys for 13 yrs. and can't remember ever having one fail to do it's job, when I did mine!

I have one downstairs on display that's buried in an off-side elbow joint bone of a whitetail...and also one I pulled out of an off-side elk shoulder blade....I'll try to get some pix

Ask Don Thomas about Magnus Broadhead performance...I bet hes got some insight on the matter.

Terry,
I agree, "I don't by a head for the warranty....I wanna head that don't need a warranty", that is why I do not use Zwickey's anymore.  I put one into the off shoulder of an elk and had the ferrel blow apart, separating the broadhead from the shaft.  My worry was what would have happened to the broadhead and penetration if it had hit a bone going in.  To answer this question I shot two Zwickey's into a fir tree and got the same results; Two more blown ferrel's.  I haven't used Zwickey's since.  If anybody is interested in my set up at the time, the arrows with a 125 grain Zwickey head weighed 550 grains and were shot from a 68# pound Marriah Thermal.

Walt...what year was that?  I know there were some issues earlier due to the brazen process but I never experience it...but for some time now Zwickey and Magnus are both brazened in the same plant.

I've shot a few into trees as well with higher poundage bows without any damage...cept to the tree when I cut the tree down to get my bhead back.        :D    

Never had a failure on an animal to date either.  But I had enough issues with magnus on the targets not to use them on game.....but Charlie Lamb still uses them that's for sure.  Maybe we both just had a run of bad luck.

Heck...there was a thread on here a few days ago about the furrels splitting on Grizzlys.

I have used Zwickey 4 blade Deltas since 1970.  Have taken 5 bears and probably 40 deer with them.  The only time I've had a head damaged was when it went thru a deer (or missed!!) and it hit rocks in the dirt.  I ALWAYS soak mine in acetone to remove the paint inside the ferrule, where they dipped them at factory.  Then I use a "super glue" to fasten them, after trueing the blade to the shaft, by dropping the glue thru the slots for the bleeders.  I have never had one come off that way.  I always use the slow-set epoxy glue on my cedars.

Terry,
That was in 1994, I bought the heads in 1992.  After that I went to Magnus but found they didn't hold a good edge after hitting a bone.  Currently I use Woodsmen, Eclipse (4blade), and Grizzly's, depending on what weight is needed to make the arrows fly true.  Haven't had any issues with any of these heads if I do my part.

Walt....yeah...I like the WWs...and I would like to try the eclipse 4 blade some time....might order some next week as I have heard good reviews on them...its just hard for me not to dance with the one that brought me if you know what I mean. And I like for my Bhead to come out of the animal as sharp as it went in.

I like the design of the eclipse 4 blade for hogs.  Do you have to use the short adapter with them?

Never uses a Grizzly on game either as I like wide heads if they are 2 blades....but if I had to I'd use the El Grande for the extra width.

Terry,
With the Eclipse I most often use footed hex pine arrows and cut the taper short.  The bleeder blades on the Eclipse are a little tricky to get aligned (I found the Magnus bleeder blade easier to align) but a couple drops of fletch tite or super glue holds them in place.  When I use them with carbons, I slot a 125 grain steel adaptor with the band saw then align the slot in the Eclipse broadhead with the slotted adaptor, then install the bleeder blades.  Of all the broadheads I have tried over the years the Eclipse is the easiest broadhead to mount and spin true, so it is easy to get the slots aligned.

The Eclipse bleeders sit farther forward than most heads, but you still can't use a full blown long adapter in them.  Most of mine are on 100 gr steel adapters I snipped the very tip off of.

Thanks Walt.

I sure like Everything about the 4bld Eskimo/Delta.

Have you ever tried Ace Standards? I like the 160 grain heads but they make 125's as well. I've found them as easy to sharpen as Zwickys but more durable.
As to the durability question I think with the majority of heads mentioned here one can't go wrong. I used Zwicky Deltas for years and wouldn't hesitate to use thwem again. You will find the odd circumstance where a head failed but that will usually prove to be a unique situation. I recall a few years ago Magnus had a run with over temper. The situation was corrected and all was well again. It did cost them a few customers with the stories of head failure but again that was a unique situation which was promptly delt with by Magnus.

John

I to have blown the ferrel on a Zwickey, but they are still a great Broadhead. I really like the Ace and the Ribteks. Especially the latter.

I to have shot Zwikey's for over 30 yrs. without any problems.  Usually for animals in the U.S. I use the 2 bld Eskimo (deer, elk, mountain lion, etc)  When I went to BC I used the 4 bld Eskimo and shot a moose, caribou and grizzley.  Thought I needed the additional cutting surface.  Really, I think the 2 bld Eskimo would have been fine.  I tried some Delta's but had some problems with planing, so stuck with the Eskimo.  Just lately I purchased some Ecli.  I haven't shot anything with them yet, but I think they will be a good bh. as well.  :thumbsup:

Having worked very closely with Mike Sohm at Magnus during the company's formative years, I can tell you that metalurgist reports show the Zwickey a couple of Rockwell points softer than the Magnus. That was then and of course things can change.

One should also take into account the metal characteristics if the two companies use different steel. No two steels react to "work" in exactly the same way.
That could infuence the way the broadhead reacts to a file.

Example... Zwickey going to copper brazing to strengthen an already strong head and the resultant heat treating that had always been done "in house".

The Zwickey's would be even stronger if they backed off on the spot welds and let the brazing do it's job.... spot welding actually removes/thins the metal along the edges of the laminated pieces, therefore creating potential weak spots.

I prefer Magnus heads as most know, but I also have a long history with Zwickeys and would fall back on them in a nano second if I had to... I like the Magnus strength and slightly larger size.

Of the two broadheads the standard Zwickey Eskimo is going to have a slight edge in the strength department... it's convex grind makes the difference, putting slightly more metal at the tip.

With the Zwickeys (I've broken a bunch... failure of the ferrule under compression) I found two things that really strengthen the four blade heads (or the two blade for that matter).

Most failures occurred when using short adapters... fill up the ferrule with a long adapter.
The other factor is glue used and it's bond.

Slow cure epoxy will make the Zwickey almost bomb proof but the gluing surfaces need to be pristinely clean.

Burning out residue isn't the way to do it. Think about it! You don't burn anything "completely" away. There will always be some form of redidue left over.

Make sure that any foreign material is removed by abrasive or solvent. There can be paint or oils from the machining process left in the ferrule.
I prefer to clean well with acetone, score with sandpaper and clean with acetone again. I use the same procedure for the adapters.

All the broadheads mentioned are fine products and a fella shouldn't feel like he's gambling regarless of his choice.

As a side note; As loyal as Single bevel fans are that style is unlikely to ever hold more than a minimal share of the market. Magnus and Zwicky will likely dominate as always.

I've seen the numbers.


 :readit:    :thumbsup:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
One should also take into account the metal characteristics if the two companies use different steel. No two steels react to "work" in exactly the same way.
That could infuence the way the broadhead reacts to a file.

AND

I prefer Magnus heads as most know...

AND

As a side note; As loyal as Single bevel fans are that style is unlikely to ever hold more than a minimal share of the market. Magnus and Zwicky will likely dominate as always.

I've seen the numbers.


  :readit:      :help:  

Very true on the single bevels, in fact all three of the new heavy Tuskers we just brought in are double beveled heads.  While I sure like the single bevels, the masses are still shooting double bevels for the most part.