Why is wool prominent amongst traditional archers (hunting/camo attire) and not among even compound hunters?
Maybe we're smarter! :bigsmyl:
Because it is silent when you move ,which is very important to trad shooters due to how close you get to your quarry. Also it is warm even when wet.If I were a compound shooter I'd wear it anyway. Ben
Ok, I will get smacked down for this....
Hype. Most folks fall fast for the latest and greates thing. Those who choose the rockier road (trad) tend to be less accepting of marketing hype.
If you were the type to suck down all the latest and greatest of the marketing world, would you be shooting a traditional bow?
Well I think it is cuz we are smarter. JUST KIDDING!
It is the first fabric know to man and is there-fore Traditional. We as a hunter like things to be sneaky and quiet. Not reflective or shiny. Warm and comfy. But I think most of all, we like it because it works. no bells, no wistles. It fits with what we do, in boh style and function. Just like our awesome archery tackle.
Just my thoughts,
Chuck
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/twotracks/chuckwithbow016.jpg)
I think wool is preferred by anyone that spends time outdoors and risks getting wet and cold, and traditional archery has little to do with making that choice. I never made the association of wool being more prominent with any particular group. There are plenty of coumpound shooters and gun hunters for that matter that use wool when conditions call for it (think wet snow/rain on a pack in elk hunt). I prefer to use wool anytime I can, and more often than I use it for hunting. I use it all fall and winter for doing chores, chopping wood, scooping snow etc. Wool is too hot for much of the hunting I do in September, hunting antelope, chasing elk or a late spring bear hunt, but just the ticket for late season white tails or a cold night on a hog hunt.
I have no way of defending this but I think I see a lot more synthetic stuff in use by traditional archers for hunting (Predator, ASAT, Sitka, Fleece of various makes) than I see wool garments. Depends more on the conditions than the choice of weaponry.
The old Woolrich coats have been around for a long time, worn mostly by hunters. You can get fifty year old coats that look brand new. You are not going to do that with the new fabrics.
I love the feel of wool, not many people do. A few years back there was a story in TBM about a terrible fire at a hunting camp in Canada. Someone thought they where boiling water on the stove inside a cabin which turned out to be white gas. Apparently the can's looked alike. Anyway a blue funnel flame was rising from the pan on the stove, and someone in camp tried to carry the flamming pot outside. During the process the pot exploded with fire everywhere. Most of these hunter's where wearing Fleece. There clothing was on fire and burned into there skin. One person perished and another was in a hospital for some time. I know fleece is a nice garment to wear, I wear it myself sometimes. I do not know if wool would have been a better choice for them. I do know that fleece is made from plastic.
I have bought several older used wool garments off of one of the unspoken internet auction sites. You can pick up near new condition, plaid wool at a fraction of the cost of new. It turns out to be cheaper than just about any other winter coat I can find.
I just bought a wool vest and I LOVE IT (Filson Mackinaw). I'm on staff with a camo company and (I won't say who it is, even if asked....and it's not why I made this post) we'll have several wool garments for this coming fall.
I just wanted to know why it's preferred by many.
You all mentioned it geting wet and still being warm. It's not water-repellent, is it? Won't you still be wet?
Like I said....what I have in wool, I LOVE. I want more. I just wanna make a smart decision before leaping.
I sincerely appreciat eyou all taking the time to educate me.
Sincerely,
Jeff
I love wool, and have worn it back when I shot a wheeled bow and especially when I gun hunt. It is quite and even when wet retains 70% of your body heat. Of course it gets pretty heavy, but you have a better chance if you get really wet and it is cold out. That said I tried some of the newer UNDER wear. I must say it has become a fixture under my wool.
http://www.shrewbows.com/wool_shirts/
A smart decision is to buy wool at Goodwill. It doesn't have to wear a desgner lable, or cost $275.00 for a shirt to be functional.
I wore wool before the word "trad" was being bandied about like a badge of honor. If you want to be warm with little bulk, even on cold, damp mornings, it's hard to beat. Most of my wool was bought on sale or at Goodwill, and none of it is camoflauge.
I can spend a day afield, when the weather is in the teens, with very little bulk. Wool underwear, poly turtleneck, thicker wool sweater, and then my heavy wool shirt. When I'm still hunting I can wear a pair of heavy wool suit pants (Goodwill $2.99) over my woolies.
I probably wouldn't make the cover of Cabelas catalog with my garb, but that would be the least of my considerations.
Guys who shoot compound bows,
watch the compound shows...
So they wear the clothes,
they show on those shows!
I started my hunting career wearing wool. It was all we had for cold weather wear, and everyone wore Red/Black plaid Mackinaws with matching wool trousers in the deer woods. Worked then and works now.
Im hearing from my wheelie bow buddies that it's heavy and that it doesn't pack well.
Valid (comparably)?
All of the above, plus wool absorbs more light then sythentic garments helping you blend in even more. Also I believe you don't have to layer as much as wool self adjusts to a larger temp spectrum.
I mean wool has been underdevelopment and field tested for millions of years, kinda hard for us humans to improve on in just a few decades.
Wool works.///GMMAT , as for it being heavy and not packing well, if that was important to the wheelie bow guys they would'nt be shooting wheelie bows to start with.Those bows are heavy and don't pack well.One wool sweater and a light wool coat pack as easy as anything else that "might" keep you warm.
GMMAT,
You are on to something with the weight. For all my backpack western hunts my wool stays at home. Except for smartwool socks. If it is a truck camp or a hunt from home or cabin, wool is my choice if the weather allows.
Nathan
QuoteGuys who shoot compound bows,
watch the compound shows...
So they wear the clothes,
they show on those shows!
George my friend sure do have a way with words! :campfire:
Jeff,
For every Pro, there will be a Con.....
It's likely many of the Compound shooting wool nay-sayers are merely repeating what they been told by the magazines and talking heads from the outdoor shows. If you pinned most down to an honest answer they'd tell you that's just what they heard or read but really haven't gotten around to trying the stuff out since it cost so much and they already spent more than their wife allowed from the budget anyways... Unfortunately sheep don't have a marketing campaign nor an advertising agency like the big synthetic clothiers. Sheep just eat and crap and grow the best material to hunt in, wool.
You've heard the saying that the best part of life is the journey, not the destination, well...
Part of the journey is trying out all the stuff out there before you decide on what's right for you. Spend big $$ for the synthics, make sure the back-pack camo pattern matches the designer camo synthetic cloth of the hour. Get yourself wet in 34 degree temps and let us know how it all worked out for ya. As you shiver to keep warm, take solice in knowing that the fashion police can't touch you and you are looking fine in the duds.
Everybody needs to make a buck today and it seems like the clothing suppliers are no different. Each clothing manufacturer needs a "Pro Staff" of yahoos to hawk their rags. There is sooo much stinkin crap on the racks today...don't believe me? Spend a few hours in a Cabelas, Bass Pro, or Sportsman's wearhouse. It's all made overseas, it's all the current latest and greatest and next year there will be another current latest and greatest line of crap that we all just have to have in order to hunt proper.
Next trip out, do yourself a favor and stop off at the Salvation Army and Goodwilly. Spend the equivalent of one pricy pair of super delux synthetic hunting gloves on some old wool garments. Feel the relaxed textures inherent in wool, listen to how the wool responds when intentionally scraped up against a tree or some brush. Smell the stuff. Did you hear that??? Neither did I....when it starts raining don't freak out, you'll still be warm, wet but warm anyway. Shake the jacket out and be surprised at how quickly it's dry.
Is wool bulky, well, yes it is. It's so bulky that it occupies a place of honor in my pack. I just love stickin animals while wearing mismatched wool, shooting my longbow, getting close to my critters, while the Compound guys are discussing the finer points of that 76 yard shot they could have made if only they'd have paid down a few more dollars for the super delux Titanium plated neon sight pin with the extra long extension cord that plugs into the 220 volt outlet....
And besides, Old Guys Rule..... :archer:
Yes wool is heavy. You certainly do get to make your own choice.
I like wool when it is cool or cold. I wear it out west and I wear it at home in WI. I wear it at work and I wear it outside while working and I wear it while hunting and fishing. Feels good, feels warm. Nice and quiet, nice and dull colored for zero reflectance. Looks good. But, it sure is heavy.
I have a couple fleece shirts I like. They sure are light. Wind sure blows thru them. I guess I could get them with wind stop. Won't I sure like wool.
Course, we trad guys don't mind carrying heavy stuff... do we ? (except bows)
ChuckC
Mike.... you know there are no 220outlets in the woods. That's what current bushes are for.
ChuckC
wheelie guys are up with the times man!!!.. its a big fad latest greatest it changes by the month that goes with there bows an clothing...With all the synthetics made to day, its seems there goal is to wick moister away which is exactly what wool does go figure :thumbsup: an i have to agree
ChuckC - current bushes eh ? :saywhat: :D very phunny.
I was looking through the comments; and there is Ron LaClair - who makes a great product; followed up by a suggestion to go to goodwill and get your wool...... geesh that was bad timing !
Thing is; if you wear a decent wool camo or other material camo on the outside; what difference is the patterns that are hidden on you under your clothes?
So - a compromise: buy some good camo for the outside; and go to goodwill for the camo underneath.
One thing about wool; is that if you get drenched in sweat stalking in below freezing temperatures; you can build a fire; take off the wool; and lay it far from the fire and let it freeze...while your warming up by the fire.
Then you just go over to the wool; and smack it against a tree; and the ice crystals that were the moisture in the wool - will fall out.
Then you can put back on the wool and get comfortable again.
Try that with other materials !
If you wear swimming trunks as your innermost layer; they can keep your butt dry if you sit in the snow.
I have wool camo; and waterproof camo; and I wear a red plaid shirt under it while hunting cold weather.
wool works. Ever hear of sheep freezing to death?
Good job Two-Tracks. That's a nice looking setup. George is right about the wool and where to get it. Had a camo vest once. Hung it on a limb and never found it again.
Brian
Thought i would spark things up a bit. Shocking... isn't it. Though I feel well grounded in this matter, earthy if you are from UK, I think that in order to get the energy flowing and the electrons well.... doing their valence dance we should just say..... wool works. It isn't for everybody, thank God for that (imagine what it would cost if it was !)
Like a lot of things we do, bowhunting involves a feeling. It is not always describeable (?), you know... the old "If I had to tell you, you wouldn't understand". It is the journey as well as the destination. Some things just go together for me, and seemingly, also for a lot of others. and did I tell you....it works...
g'nite
ChuckC
ChuckC
I saw humor in what you said; I was not revolted.
I hope my response doesn't blow anyones fuse - but in this circuit of people; who seem pretty bright; I doubt I will cross wires with anyone.
Watt you say? You don't think this line of thought is going in a positive direction ?
Well; don't be so negative. Stay grounded in your beliefs and transform your energy so that you don't get wired about this kind of thing.
If this is a bit of an overload; well go shoot your bow - it is indeed: a great outlet.
I will end this on a good chord. :saywhat:
Mike you started this and now they probably will socket to me.
My "brothers" and I sure appreciate a good wool jacket. Texas mornings can be cool enough for wool!
(http://brothersofthebow.com/borsalino.jpg)
Brian,
Noone can ever say that you are a negative person.
I wear a lot of wool from about November until around the first of March, both for hunting, working and just putzing around the woods. The Sportsman Guide is a great source for surplus military wool goodies from all over the world. I generally use long johns of 50/50 wool/poly underneath and wool pants and shirts over that. When we lived in Wyoming I was never cold...'cept fer my fingers!
Vic
QuoteMy "brothers" and I sure appreciate a good wool jacket. Texas mornings can be cool enough for wool!
Gary, Gene blends in pretty good against that brick wall... :biglaugh:
when you go to the army cold weather training one of the first things they do is take away all your gore/fleece/poly whatever and give you........
world war 2 wool uniforms. Yep.
Wonder why that is?
Nothing better than good wool, as long as conditions (of the hunt) don't dictate something different.
Wool keeps me warmer when damp. But it is extremely slow to get dry in a camp situation.
Wool is very quiet, but so are the best synthetics.
Synthetics weigh a lot less than equivalent wool, and they pack better/tighter.
Wind resistance is a wash, when comparing good wool to good synthetics. Neither are 100%.
Synthetics (in some cases) can be shaken out and dried in 1/4 the time of wool.
Good wool feels more "protective" and sturdy. Good synthetics flex and move better.
I perspire more in wool (vs synthetics) but that may be because it's heavier to carry and a little tougher to add/shed layers under strenuous hunting conditions like caribou, moose, cougar.
I prefer wool (sometimes) for stationary hunting. I still require a wind shell if it's blowing steady.
I have some of the best of each, and I use them all every year. If I had to choose wool vs synthetics...I would take the synthetics (for me) because they offer more versatility and easier care, plus they pack and carry better. But don't ask me to quit liking wool...I never said I was 100% logical!
Kevin Dill
Wool doesn't melt,and stick to your body when you catch fire.....
(Good enough reason for me)
I have to agree with Kevin. Both garments have there pro's and con's. If you get cheap quality wool or synthetic you are going to pay for it. If you get high quality of either you are going to benefit from it. The arguement of natural (trad) versus synthetic is a personal choice, but don't try to say that natural is Better than synthetic. Try wearing cotton in the woods; and that is as natural as wool. I love wool, I grew up in Australia and our economy rode on the back of the sheep and wool. I use synthetic mostly, because that is what I have, but am trying to put together a wool set up that works for me. Will probably be a mix or garments.
Another question I have for the wool crowd is smell. Wool undoubtedly works great when wet but it does smell. Do deer and other critters get a better wiff of you in the woods when you smell like the literal wet blanket. i know we hunt down wind, but at fifteen yards and a strong smell even a deer with a head cold could still smell you.
I like it because it reduces bulk, breathes, is silent, and is warm when wet. Personally, I don't like to pack anything into the woods unless I really have to.
My son got a job guiding in Montana, I called the outfitter to see what to get him, Filson coat, sweater, pants, all wool. Gets mighty cold in those Mtns. He said don't waste your time getting anything else. His name was Tepee Tom, he lived in a tepee a couple of winters out there. I bought him the wool, and a 44 cal. pistol. :thumbsup:
Merino wool long johns don't stink when you have not showered for tooooo long elk hunting.I p.o.'d my filson fanatic brother by telling him all the mt. everest climers who wore wool died. EEEEASY now, that was funny!
Because it is warm!
I can pick up 3 100% wool sweaters at goodwill for about $2 apiece and it is more quite than anything else that I have found.
I start out with 1 sweater on as I walk to my stand and have the other two in my pack along with a wool vest. After I get into my tree and start to cool off I add a sweater. If it gets colder I add the third one. If I'm still cold I put on the vest. Only had to do that one time and the temp was 13 degrees. Generally, two sweaters do the trick.
I also prefer layering sweaters because they fit my bow arm snuggly and isn't a problem like a bulky coat when I shoot.
If I was using a compound I still wouldn't use the camo coats I have because of the sleeve problem so I don't believe I wear wool because I shoot a long bow.
Because Fred Bear wore it and I want to be like him.
As stated earlier, many synthetic materials work great. In my experience, not much wicks moisture better than base layers made with synthetic fabrics.
I currently own about six or seven wool sweaters of various weights and colors, along with a half dozen wool shirts (famous company in Oregon). All of them were purchased from thrift stores for $6 or less, including a sweater with the manufacturer's tags still attached. I did break down and buy a camo wool sweater with a windstop type lining (synthetic) and hate to take it off. It is extremely warm and quiet when going through brush. I think wool is as quiet as any fabric when going through brush.
I love wearing wool over synthetic base layers, whether I am hunting, ice fishing or cross-country skiing. And I am not giving up my boots or waders with their fancy synthetic, water-proof, yet breathable liners. I really like the look of Ron L's wool. Need to save some money.
Compound shooters place their faith in modernized versions of bows, so an affinity for modern fabrics seems to be a consistent pattern. Also, synthetics drop in a washing machine, whereas my wool garments are either dry clean only or wash by hand, which is a little more effort.
For what it's worth, none of my recurves or longbows have sinew strings; all are dacron or fast flight. Does that violate the spirit of traditional archery?
As for the fire hazard, I don't intend to burn up any time soon while hunting. However, if you check military blogs or many of the sites that tell you what to send to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, you will find that synthetic clothing has been banned from combat use. Many burn victims from IEDs have had extreme, and in some cases, fatal injuries due to melted synthetic clothing due to subsequent fires, which led to DoD's ban. The melting hazard is real.
Do yourself a favor and find a fly fishing friend that has one of those little UV lights that they use for curing the knot glue they use. Then go into a dark room and pass the light over some of the new sythetic camo patterns....see that glowing Black light look. Those are UV brightened dyes that the Off Shore ( China ) mfg's use to make the colors look deep and rich. Those UV brighteners are seen by deer, and you literally glow to them. Deer have rods in their eyes for receptors allowing them to see UV spectrum light much better than humans. The colors they see are yellow and blue.
Now take the wool clothing and pass the same UV light over them......nadda.....they are dull and lifeless looking and neither reflect light, nor glow brightly.
I love wool clothing, it is warm and best of all DEADLY quiet. I still use my fathers wipcord wool pants he used as a young 20 year old commercial fisherman. They are dark brown. I used a rolled collar dark tan pull over sweater that I have used a shoe dye on and made it look similar to ASAT camo, but much less pattern. My theory is that with the dark legs of the pants and light upper body of the sweater, I have broken up my body pattern very effectively. Dark down low often is where all the shadows are, and the lighter tops are tree bark. I had a buddy walk right past me one year looking for me as I leaned against a tree...he came within about 10 feet before I called his name and he literally backed up out of his skin.....I laughed and laughed. He commented on how most people when they buy camo pick the same pattern top and bottom.....break it up darker and light up top and you get very effective pattern breaking ability.
Cover your hands and face if possible and walk with your hands in your pockets...nothing walks in the bush with it's limbs swinging back and forth but man...think about it.
Wool for me works. If it is really cold I wear a micro fleece right next to the skin, then a slippery poly pull over that...the poly helps keep the whole works from binding up when I put on the wool. It is very slick and keeps clothes from bunching up.
Quiet, not UV sensitive, blends well with natural browns of the bush, and when wet I am warm, heavy but warm. And the way I look at it...if I can't walk around all day because my wool weighs in a pound or two more than fleece then maybe I should be in a gym getting into better shape and not be out hunting.
That's my two cents..
The story about the fire mentioned on page one was about Paul Brunner (8th dwarf) and his party on a musk ox hunt. Paul was badly burned but lived. I don't remember if it was his legs or upper body, but on one half, he had poly fleece and the other was wool. Guess which half he didn't get any burns on?
One big thing barely mentioned is that wool is naturally odor resistant. I work for a company that bottles dry spices (Lawrys) and we almost always have at least one line runnig either garlic powder or garlic salt and everything absolutely reeks of garlic. I'm embarrased to take my wallet out at a gas station or store because garlic odor just oozes from it. Everything that I wear to work and leave in my locker reeks of garlic EXCEPT my wool King of the Mountain coat and a wool fedora I wear. My KOM coat is in that locker for 8 to 16 hours a day 5 days a week and I can walk outside, give my sleeve a big sniff and NOTHING.... It flat just does not hold odors.
Wool also does not hold dirt. Dirt doesn't hardly stick to it. If it does, let it dry (It'll only stick if it's wet like mud) then brush the dirt out and it's clean.
Is it heavy? Well kinda. Pick up a wool coat and it has a good heft to it. Put it on and ya just don't really notice it.
I also agree with the thrift store route. You can find all kinds of merino, cashmere, angora, alpaca etc designer wool sweaters about the weight of a sweatshirt for about 3 to 7 bucks a pop. They are great for layering. The cashmere, merino and angora sweaters are so soft you can wear them right against your skin and LOVE it.
Need pants? Sportsmans Guide usually has Swiss Military wool pants for about 14.95 I think they are called Swiss Alpine pants. They're a good heavy weight, have cargo pockets on the sides and are an olive drab, greyish color that blends really well in the woods.
Hundreds of millions of sheep can't be wrong!
QuoteOriginally posted by Two Tracks:
Well I think it is cuz we are smarter. JUST KIDDING!
It is the first fabric know to man and is there-fore Traditional. We as a hunter like things to be sneaky and quiet. Not reflective or shiny. Warm and comfy. But I think most of all, we like it because it works. no bells, no wistles. It fits with what we do, in boh style and function. Just like our awesome archery tackle.
Just my thoughts,
Chuck
(http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt12/twotracks/chuckwithbow016.jpg)
Well said!! :clapper:
Quote
If you were the type to suck down all the latest and greatest of the marketing world, [/QB]
That was me, until a month or so ago lol
You will notice guys who have spent a lot of money on the latest fad materials will defend them to the end. It's like buying expensive guns and bows....bragging rights, I suppose.
The bottom line is nothing yet has even come close to wool for all around wear. I'll guarantee you Paul Brunner won't be wearing any meltaway clothes in the woods anymore. He nearly died, and a friend of his did.
QuoteOriginally posted by George D. Stout:
You will notice guys who have spent a lot of money on the latest fad materials will defend them to the end. It's like buying expensive guns and bows....bragging rights, I suppose.
Well George, for some of us it's just because we found a product that works really well. Have you really tried any of the newer "high tech" fabrics under hunting conditions? I'll bet not, or you wouldn't dismiss them so quickly with comments aimed at belittling those that use them. Remember your experience with carbon? As bad as you may not want them to, the majority of these products do an excellent job and in some areas are superior to wool.
That said, I love wool. I like to mix it with my Sitka gear. In winter, most of the time you'll find me lounging around in my Ulfrotte: I've got 400gm as well as the ultra thick 600gm. Nothing insulates better. I've got a bunch of army surplus german pants that I wear kicking around in the cold. If I had to pick one fabric to wear in the winter, it would definately be wool.
But why not the best of both worlds? Each fabric has their place...thankfully we all have a lot to choose from.
Wool is good and so is synthetic fleece and water proof synthetics.
If youre all about function your wear what suits the situation.
If youre all about tradition you will wear wool.
If you are all about technology you will wear synthetics.
EDIT: And you are allergic to wool synthetics are a remarkable improvement over cotton.
As I stated before about synthetics melting qualities.....
I don't plan on catching fire while hunting either. However..... My "hunting clothes" are just that,my hunting clothes,but not every trip is "just a hunting trip. Some of my hunts are a few hours,some are a few days. When I'm on a several day hunt,I like to have a campfire. :campfire: Sparks and embers can cause you to catch fire just as easily as a pot of white gasoline. I won't even let my kids wear fleece of any sort on a camping trip. They wear jeans and T-shirts and sweatshirts.Plus,everyone has at least one wool sweater(thanks to GoodWill) in case it gets "wet".
When I go hunting,I want to come home again. Better to be safe than sorry. :archer:
Yep, my ulfrotte is pretty much relegated to the campfire circle most of the time on a hunt unless it's really cold...then it goes to the stand too. Wool a smart thing to have between your synthetic and the fire.
My only complaint about wool is that it shrinks if you're not careful. I have wool shirts I wear to work, so they need to be washed regularly (in an office setting people notice B.O.). My wool sweaters get washed occassionally for the same reason. My hunting only wool gets hung on the clothesline for a day or so after I've worn it. My Swiss Army surplus pants need to be washed after wearing them for a couple of weeks working around the house or exploring the woods. I have fleece and wool, and wear both.
I think people are being a bit silly here. The example of synthetics catching on fire we are using is what happened when someone boiled a pot of fuel.
I know synthetics can burn but this is like saying cars are unsafe because you found out about car bombs.
Darwick,
Do not take lightly the risk of synthetics catching fire, it is more common then you portray. I know of two local bowhunter whose synthetic pants caught fire while sitting around a camp fire last year (different camps). One hunter was burned bad enough that it ended his hunting for the year due to the risk of infection.
I have been using wolfskin predator for many years. I replaced that lineup with three sets of Sitka gear because the wolfskin had so many burn holes in it it was getting pretty drafty. Everytime a pine knot would pop and spray some sparks I ended up with more melt holes, instantly. I don't know if the sitka gear will be any more durable but at least it doesn't have any holes right now. I like the lightweight and packability of having a couple of fleece pullovers and expediion weight poly long underwear for layering and adapting to changing conditions. I have to have the wool jacket for outerwear. I mix all kinds of stuff depending on the season. I have the wool pants too but they are just too heavy for the majority of my hunting situations (great for sitting a deerstand on a cold Iowa day but not so great for putting in a lot of miles chasin elk in Sept).
QuoteOriginally posted by Walt Francis:
Darwick,
Do not take lightly the risk of synthetics catching fire, it is more common then you portray. I know of two local bowhunter whose synthetic pants caught fire while sitting around a camp fire last year (different camps). One hunter was burned bad enough that it ended his hunting for the year due to the risk of infection.
Well those anecdotes are more useful(if less dramatic) than the boiling fuel and definetly make a better case for not wearing synthetics near fire.
I love my wool. Never tried it until I heard about it here on Tradgang. Wool is just comfortable. If it gets warm in the afternoon your not hot, unlike some of the poly stuff. For me if it gets warm and Im wearing poly I can hardly stand it I have to take it off. I love my Ulfrotte wool and I have some army surplus wool pants. Most of my wool I have purchased used through the Tradgang classified. m2c
Gilbert
For me, if it's 50 degree's and above, go with Day One lite fleece with proper layers as needed. If it's 49 degree's and below, go with the Day One wool with proper layers as needed.
For me, wool and 50 or above means I sweat off 5 lbs on even a very slow walk and I don't stop sweating until I've been settled for an hour. LOL
Latest and greatest vs. the older more traditional style works for me. Course many of my compound shooting friends hunt during the warmer,early season with their archery equipment, and then switch to firearms during the colder gun season. I'm a year round traditional archer/hunter and wool is my first choice for cold weather outter wear. :archer:
And just to clarify, in the incident mentioned, NOBODY tried to boil whit gas. There was white gas in an unmarked container identical to a water jug. There was a fire flare up on the stove and the cook intended to splash water on it only it wasn't water, it was white gas in a water jug.
Or at least, that's how I remember Paul telling it on here back when it happened.
The point is, he swears the wool made the difference in him living or dieing. Kinda like wearing a seatbelt in your car. (Not like a carbomb....) Just one extra benefit among many.
Then there is durability. I've never worn anything that lasted like wool except maybe heavyweight denim canvas but I'm not certain that even that would outlast wool. Shrinkage is a problem if you are not careful especially someone like me that can scratch his knees without bending over. My filson was very long in the sleeves when new and came down to my main finger knuckles. After several years and many times in the wet and snow then dried in the house, it's shortened up about 1 1/2 inch in the sleeves and now is about at my thumb knuckle where it should be. Filson knows the properties of wool and designs accordingly. My coat will probably stay exactly the same for a hundred years if the moths never find it.
I also have a KOM coat that I actually prefer for hunting for two reasons. It's camo and it's not as bulky as my Filson double mackinaw. It's also machine washable and has never shrunk. It's the best $10 I ever spent! (raffle ticket)
Shrinkage is one of the reasons that I like pull-over sweaters from the GoodWill store. If I wash them and they shrink alittle,they always seam to stretch out after wearing them a few times. I wash all of my wool sweaters at the end of the season(unless needed before hand)and my heavy coats only get washed when needed.
I had a Johnson's Woolen Mills coat that my mother bought me for Christmas a few years before she died.The season after,I shot an 8 pointer and got blood and hair all over the coat. Being as I personaly know the lady working in the local DryCleaners,I opted to wash the coat myself. Rather than throw it over the porch railing to dry,I put it in the dryer on "Air Dry/No Heat..... Well,you guessed it,It SHRUNK!!!!!
After that I swore I would not spend "Big Bucks" on hunting clothes.I hit the after season clearance racks and scored great deals on poly/fleece hunting clothing.I was ready for next year!!!!! The next season was one of the rainiest,snowiest,wetest,dampest,hunting seasons that I had ever seen!!!!! It seemed like every time I went out,I was cold,and usualy wet and cold!!!!! The last week of the season I just gave up. I put away the poly/fleece,and broke out my old wool clothes.
The following spring I started making weekly trip to the local GoodWill store,and that year I filled my closet with "cheap" wool sweaters,pants and coats. If it gets dirty,I'll wash it.If it shrinks,I'll throw it away.If it gets ripped up crossing a barbwire fence or crashing through briars,I'll throw it away.
I'll never go back to synthetic hunting clothes.....It's WOOL for me!!!!! :thumbsup:
Another thing about wool that I found out this past bear season. Alaska was wet and foggy for the 5 or 6 days that I was there. Every day when we came back to the boat from hunting bears my 2 buddys were soaking wet and I was very dry with my pendelton wool shirt. I wore my wool shirt every day, while my buddys had to change shirts everyday. I love my wool. m2c
Gilbert
Well I guess I'll be different, I prefer synthetics have for a long, long time. Call me crazy....but it works for every bit of hunting I've ever done......I guess I just have to hope I never get too close to the fire :scared:
'GOOD' synthetics are lighter/easier to pack...endlessly washable to control scent... dry in a fraction of the time... don't stink if wet, and a big one for me....because of their lightness, won't wear ya out just moving/standing around in it.
I admit, I've never tried top of the line wools....but I've gone the cheap salvation army/goodwill type wool junk and found it to be just that...
Wool for me. Wet or dry it is aways warm. May save your life in an emergency. Got a great bear in maine once upon a time. 2 film crews in camp for TV, plus a bunch of eager hunters. Rained for three straight days. Everyone else was in hi tech gear and got wet eventually, then froze out each and every day. When the sun came out on the 4th day I was standing in my stand cozy warm. The last drop had not fell before the big guy came in, now I am looking at his rug on the wall...and I was carrying a longbow while most of the others had firearms. I have Grey Wolf with the wind liner custom tailored. Lots of time in this rig from 50 above and rain down to twenty below and 40 mph winds. Always comfy. Wool hunting cloths is something I won't scrimp on, and I am cheap (my commutor car has 265,000 miles and I have no plans to replace her).
I've found that a good layer of blubber works well under either.
I've tried synthetics and wool;
I've tried Ron's shirt and goodwill stuff...
I like my webfoots, I like my wool...
They each have their place.
I do find myself leaning to and on wool more often.
What if you couldn't go to a store and buy "the latest and greatest whatever".. if the "grid" goes and the rest of technology with it, sheep will still be warm;
Deer will have leather and grass will make strings....
Someone else said, "it's about the journey".
To me; it's about tradition,knowledge and how'd they do that?
I remember when Polarfleece and polypropylene first became popular. I did a lot of shopping at REI back in those days. I tried it all. After all, it was the best thing since sliced bread (I'm not sure what was best before sliced bread). I had long underwear of both materials, vests and coats, liner socks - whatever was made I tried. I ran about 20 miles a week, so I had to have the "performance" gear for running as well. I still had some wool thrown into the mix and over time and lots of field testing (I'm a surveyor and work outside in all kinds of conditions in addition to hunting) I gradually gravitated back to wool. Probably the best thing to come along in recent years is the merino wool long underwear. I used to use the "itchy-scratchy" grey wool long johns, but when it got warm they were not very comfortable. I wear a light weight SmartWool long undershirt most days from mid-October to mid-May - and they don't build up odor. Polyester,on the other hand, eventually stinks so bad that the smell can't be washed out. The hype about the synthetic base layer dissipating the moisture from sweating to an outside layer is just that - wool as a base layer is twice as good, plus it doesn't smell. I have Filson, Hidden Wolf, KOM, Swanndri, Pendeleton, Smart Wool and Cabela's whipcord. It's all good and I use it all in varied conditions. And yes, I found out rather quickly that my fleece clothing did not mix very well with embers from campfires. The only real advantage fleece has over wool is the ease of throwing it in the washing machine, but even that is negated by the fact that odors tend to build up over time and can't be washed out. It's not that I'm a die hard traditionalist, it's just that wool works better than anything else.
QuoteOriginally posted by Greg Skinner:
The hype about the synthetic base layer dissipating the moisture from sweating to an outside layer is just that - wool as a base layer is twice as good, plus it doesn't smell. ..... It's not that I'm a die hard traditionalist, it's just that wool works better than anything else.
Opinions vary greatly on that.
About a year ago I had a buddy who owned a couple pieces of Sitka gear. I thought they were designed pretty well but was completely skeptical they were worth the money. I borrowed them for two weekends of hunting and thought, hmmm, maybe this stuff can fulfill the hype they've had. I talked more to owners of the stuff and eventually laid out the money for a core zip-t. I've used all kinds of base layers but have never found one that really pulled the sweat off the skin. Here in GA we often have 90degrees during the first part of deer season. There is absolutely NOTHING, in my opinion, that works as well as this top for keeping you cool. It DOES move sweat away from the skin.
I felt like this product was so much better than anything else on the market, I began talking to Curt and Peter I. about their specific opinions on the rest of the products. I bought some traverse pants. Again, I was able to hunt in very hot/humid conditions and stay far more comfortable than cotton/wool/ or any other synthetic I've used in this environment. They dry within minutes if you soak them, they are slightly stretchy which gives them high degree of comfort...etc. etc. It DOES move sweat away from the skin.
I was so convinced, I expressed great interest to Curt and Peter to become a pro-staff member. I sought THEM out, not the other way. Even with the few demo pieces they gave me, I spent my own money for more of the gear. Some worked better than others (I had to add wool and/or down layer to stay warm in the stand with the celcius gear) but every piece I used worked as advertised. First time for everything I guess.
I gave Woody my core top for a stalk in Texas because he had a light colored T-shirt on. After he came back to the truck, he said "I thought for sure I'd be sweltering within 20 yards...but I stayed completely comfortable and this has long sleeves!" I've loaned out these clothes to 3-4 other guys and all of them said the same thing.
I recommend Bob Morrison's bows not because Bob's my friend but because I believe in the product. I am a Sitka pro-staff member not because they gave me a couple pieces of clothes but because I BELIEVE in it's performance and the folks that run it. I recommend Danner boots because I've had a pair for 14 years that's been resoled 3 times and still going strong.
All that said, synthetics aren't for everyone. But some of us think they are a valuable tool to add to our hunting arsenal. I think both have their places and BOTH do a great job for their owners...or they wouldn't continue to own them. But to say that one is ALWAYS superior than the other is simply denial of the positive attributes of both.
I'll tell ya what, I believe in Sitka so much, for someone who is convinced wool is ALWAYS better who's posted on this thread so far: the first one that sends me a PM that they want to give it a shot, I'll send you one of my tops (a "snug" XL) to try for a couple of weeks. I'll pay shipping both ways, all I ask is you not tear it up. I've gotten no compensation for doing something this, I just believe in it.
I won't send you a Morrison or my boots though :p
I would not even consider a wilderness trip without wool. As important as a safety belt in a tree. Silk is a great base layer in moderate temps, best anti microbial properties and feels great against the skin,(doesn't stink).
JC, I might take ya up on that..... :D
I love my wool but I'm not so closed minded that I'd catagorically deny that anything synthetic is junk. However, just listening to your last post and knowing you live in Gawgia, I wonder how much you have to deal with the type of weather where wool really shines.
Wool is certainly not the proper choice for a hunt in hot weather with the exception maybe of a good pair of medium to light weight merino wool socks. Those I wear year round since I discovered them about 6 years ago.
If ya want, I'll borrow your synthetic stuff in about mid September or early October to try it while it's still warm here and you can come out to MO in November to hunt and try some of my wool. Might not kill a deer but you'll eat good! One good misty drizzly day at about 35 to 40 degrees MIGHT make a believer out of ya. 30 to 32 degrees and freezing rain almost surely would. Or maybe it will make one out of me, who knows? I've got a North American Outfitters (now hidden wolf woolens) wool coat in Predator Fall Grey that would probably fit you (It's getting a tad small on me) and I never really liked it anyway compared to my KOM. Just not in the same class in my opinion. Materials are great but design and cut don't get it done like my KOM.
Dave, while certainly not your weather, 30-32 and freezing rain is pretty common here in North GA Dec/Jan. I hunted multiple times in temps 18-24 last season. I certainly enjoy wool and think in those temps it is the smartest choice, at least to mix in with my synthetics. Make no mistake, I am a believer in wool, but not to the exclusion of other fabrics. Love my Ulfrotte (multiple tops/bottoms), love my Grey wolf wool vest (I'm wearing that in my avatar by the way), love my smart wool socks, but I love my down vest, and of course love my Sitka gear too. Dang but I'm happy I've got all those to choose from!
You holler round early september and I'll try to find one that fits you (I know mine would come just below your elbows).
Wool is not water repellent, it does however have the ability to maintain its insulationing capabilities when wet. It was explained to me that the wool fibers are hollow and that is what gives wool this quality. If you get drenched and are out in a stiff wind you are still going to feel the effects.
Jim
Because it is warmer. I don't wear it because it is traditional. I wear it because nothing else keeps me as warm. I will put three thin layers of wool up against a heavy jacket any day of the week.
-Charlie
Wool or synthetic clothes is like graphite or wood arrows-personal preference. Both are good. Each has it's place, each has it's fans. Many hunters we all read about and idolize, swore by plaid wool, because wool was the best available at that time. If fleece or graphite had been around in the 40's, 50's and 60's, I wonder if if Hill, Bear, Schultz, Pearson, Howatt, St. Charles, et.al. would have used them?
Not being a terribly trusting person, I seldom leave a stand in the woods, I lug my carry on stand and strap on steps in and back out just about every day I hunt, sometimes over a mile each way. Quite honestly, wool is heavy. Sometimes, I wear wool bibs and carry a fleece jacket and a wool sweater. I've been too warm in both and cold in both. For me being comfortable and being still when it's bitter cold are mutually exclusive. I can do one or the other, but not both.
Everyone's experiences and preferences are different. Some are open minded and others are not. I definitely try to keep an open mind about the qualities (real or imagined) of any gear I own and use.
I've used good wool (Ulfrotte, KOM, Sleeping Indian) and good synthetics (Cabela's, Sitka Gear, Under Armor) on hunts from Ohio to Utah...Sakatchewan, BC, Yukon, NWT and Alaska. I think I have a pretty good idea of how they perform.
If the weather conditions will be severe (very cold and damp) there's a good chance you'll find some wool in my duffel...usually a base or mid-layer. For temps above 20 degrees I'll go with synthetics, especially for traveling hunts. For active exertional hunting I'll take my Sitka Gear 100% of the time over wool. If physical weight is not an issue, I'll pack plenty of wool. By now though, I have learned that I can be just as safe and comfortable in synthetics as wool. I also like the fact that my sweater may have once been a one-liter empty bottle clogging a ditch in your town.
Still: If you dropped me out of a Supercub in the Alaska hills and said I could only have one outfit, I'm pretty sure wool would be there...and it has nothing to do with tradition.
Kevin Dill
In response to the comments about Sitka gear: I have a pair of Sitka pants which I have not used enough to render an honest evaluation. I have not tried the base layer tops that J.C. has described. Perhaps Sitka has figured out a different weave/material combination that works better than the other polyester garments that I have used. Perhaps our individual body chemistry responds differently to different materials, also. For me I get to feeling clammy and claustrophic with the polyester base layer as opposed to the wool. I guess I'm just glad that we have lots of options from which to choose - similar to the carbon, aluminum wood choices for arrows that are available. That way we all have what works best for each of us as individuals. We are fortunate there are so many excellent choices available.