Trad Gang

was wondering what system you folks used to determine when your shooting ablities where good enough to go out hunting with your trad setup.  Im thinking when i can put arrows in a paper plate consistently i would be good to go limiting my shots to 20 yards and in. thoughts?

Bowmaster12,
          I'm deliberately going to chastise you so you will rethink your thread. First, you will never be "good enough" with that assumption. Second, a paper plate at 20 yds. is a damn big target. Put a black dot in the middle of that paper plate and concentrate on that. When you can consistently put your first arrow in that dot or close to it than you are getting there. Also tape a message on the face of your bow above the arrow shelf which should read "Pick a Spot". Now go out there and "kill" that spot.

Rick

papper plate @ 20 is ok keep your shots close but try that is the only way you will know ,, I know some fine target shots that cannot seem to seal the deal when hunting some hunt for years just to get a chance so try whats the worst you could do  good luck!

i undrstend picking a spot ive been hunting my whole life aim small miss small i get it my question is this is my first year shooting a trad bow and if you folks had a way of gauging when your shoot ability is good enough to hunt my thinking with being able to keep arrows within a paper plate was lungs of a deer roughly that size  id idnt mean i was amining for an area that large. I have heard of peopel shooting for years before they went hunting just looking for a mesuring stick thanx

Well if you can hit a deer at 3ft and you want to hunt you are ready.

The real answer is if you will pass on a 4ft shot because you know it is too far or not.The mark of a good bowhunter is not the shots he makes.It is those he passes on instead of hopeing to make shots he knows he is not ready for. jmo

QuoteOriginally posted by James Wrenn:
Well if you can hit a deer at 3ft and you want to hunt you are ready.

The real answer is if you will pass on a 4ft shot because you know it is too far or not.The mark of a good bowhunter is not the shots he makes.It is those he passes on instead of hopeing to make shots he knows he is not ready for. jmo

Well said  :clapper:

I agree James. I think the best I ever heard it put was on a wensel brothers dvd. a target archer tries to get as far away and hit the target. A bowhunter tries to get as close as he can and not miss. this is from the "Spirit of the Bow" dvd. A must see if you like to shoot and have a good time. DB

Very well said James!  :clapper:

James is right on target. Many years ago I read an article about your question... In a nutshell it said, "If you can hit a deer in the heart at five yards then go hunting! Just don't shoot over five yards." The art of bow hunting is in getting close. Real Close! So, get out there and hunt. Know your limits. Enjoy Gods gift of life.

... mike ...

Another for what James has stated!   :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:

Really depends what you are hunting.  On an elk, that should be a killing shot.  I think you could lay that paper plate over the vitals and be confident that a shot into that paper plate would kill an elk.

Heres the problem.

Backyard accuracy benchmarks never improve when you throw in unfamiliar distances, angles, obstacles, animal responses, adrenaline, etc.  Hold yourself to a much stricter standard than a paper plate if you are trying to determine a max range.  

What is really funny is that for so many instinctive shooters around, we sure hear a lot about specific yardages and limits.  I personally believe that this sounds nicer than what actually happens.  Unless we run around with a rangefinder or hunt extremely familar ground we really won't know the elk is 25 yards instead of our "max" 21 yards as we peer at open vitals through thick brush.  Hunting is an art that requires that we aquire a feel for our field accuracy.  In the end we go with our gut.  All of us pass on shots because they don't feel right.

Here is my answer to your original question.  Take the size of the vitals of the animal you intend to kill, divide it by two or three and set that as your goal at any distance.  If the animal has vitals of say 12", then your backyard shooting should be at a 4-6" target.  

As you learn your effective range, pay special attention to, and be honest with yourself about your first shot of a session and the one shot accuracy you get when stumpshooting.  Generally this is quite revealing.

Some good answers here.

Yeah for me the hardest thing is just getting close enough to even pic a spot! LOL!  20 is a fairly long bow shot for most. Lots of time for game to jump the string even on a perfect shot.

i've been bowhunting since i opened my eyes, last year was my first year with a recurve, i started in the spring and shot almost every day till october. When hunting season rolled around i was confident of my shooting out to 20 yards but still shot all my deer at 5-15 yards, that way i really knew i would slam them so i guess it all depends on what shot you're comfortable with in any given situation, funny enough i missed a deer at 15 yards not because i couldn't make the shot, but because i couldn't keep my crap together, so that's hunting, have fun

Well stated oxnam...go with that gauge on your abilites and you can't go wrong.

I liked Oxam's answer too.I always figured whatever my groups were on the range,under hunting conditions and pressure,excitement etc.,the groups would be double in size if I were lucky.I also don't like to shoot to much at circles and dots as they are easy to focus on and when you get on big game,you are looking at a large brown area and again-under stress.          I like to shoot at solid large objects like a cardboard rectangle or one of burlap,and pick a spot.Even then,your mind cheats a little by focusing on the preceeding arrow or holes in the target.A 3D target would be good too.A month or 2 before season I like to vary positions,shot angles and distances.                             Fred Bear claimed that if you wanted to know how you would shoot in a hunting situation,shoot ten days in a row and record only your first,"cold" shot of each day's session.This would be your group.Some food for thought.

I like shooting 3D courses to get ready for hunting. I dont shoot at the stakes and only shoot when I am confortable with the shot. I think that will let you know your comfort distance for a clean kill. Mine is 15 to 20 yards, depending on the terrain.

What James Wrenn said, and oxnam too.......I pass on a lot of shots, if it is just 'not there'.
My freezer is pretty full all the time, and I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Never take a shot that has any Doubt.No maybes or hail Marys. Only " I know I`m gonna kill it shots" and you`ll do good. How far for me has little to do with it and groups in the yard don`t matter. When I know I can kill a critter I shoot. Might be really close today and a little farther tomorrow but I`m confident I`ll make a killing shot or I don`t shoot.Never have to think on it I just no "when".


  I believe its all about confidence. If shooting plates in the yard builds that for you by all means do it but don`t think shooting at an animal will be the same.If you practice so much that ALL of your focus is on the target and zero focus is on your anchor,grip and follow up and anything else other than the spot you want to hit...your ready.RC

thanx guys great advice i also agree with my years of hunting with the "high tech" its the shots that you dont take that are really the ones that count. i have only shot a hand full of deer that have been over 15 yards it sound slike 20 yards seems to be must shooters comfort zone.  I appreciate everyones advice and opinions.  really like the idea of only tracking your first shot of the session.

If you've been hunting for a while like you say bud, you should be able to answer that question yourself....

Become a hunter and all your shots are under 20.Shooting at a paper plate or I should say a whole paper plate will teach you to shoot at the whole deer.Put a inch SPOT on that plate.Better yet I only shoot at deer targets.I like to get the ones with a good crease in the front leg.And this crease is the kill zone and great aiming point.This gets your mine set into the deers shape and the kill zone your to shot at.
  So when that deer walks up and your instints kick in you know that shape and you know that front leg crease.All you need to do is draw and pick a spot.Next thing you know your arrows in the deer.And you don't remember doing it.
 It you have to remember drawing,canting your bow,anchoring and a dozzen other things at the moment you know your going to shoot your not realy shooting instintive.All you should do is pick a spot.When your shooting only constrate on your spot nothing else........

I never think yards.I stump shoot a lot never think that stumps 18 years or that one 23.You have no sightes.Its all hand,eye and if you shoot enough unknown distances with out the budern of haveing to know how far you targets are.
 People that need to know are aiming the arrow some how.Good on the range at known distances and hunting the 10 ring but not a good way for hunting.Unless theres time to use a range finder.NOT.Learn to be a hunter and all your shots will be close.

I hardly ever shoot known distances. I had a 3D target until a bear took it apart. Now I mainly stump shoot... I shoot as far as I want to when practicing. Anywhere from three feet to 40+ yards. I pick the smallest target I can, burn a hole in it, draw, ANCHOR(had issues with that myself) and release. It is amazing how many times you hit, or are so close it should have.
When hunting, I generally scope out my surroundings and do the same..."I know I could hit that leaf, mushroom, stick, etc." Then I use those as a reference if a shot presents itself.
Two years down as "trad only", no shots the first, two last year. I whiffed on em both. Simply did not pick a spot.

IMVHO, roving and stump shooting work the best, atleast for me, for preparing for a hunting scenario. Keep your range down to what YOU KNOW you can do, and go from there.

Good luck.

At the moment when it's time to shoot only you can answer that

Can you make the shot or do you think\\hope you can make the shot ??

If you "know" you can make the shot it's close enuff

Good luck.....oh yea LOL  real spots like fat wrinkles or something are easier to focus on than imaginary spots

After years of "instinctive" shooting(and lots of practice), my main realization is I usually end up deer hunting with a gun because I dont want to wound and lose a deer.

My gut feeling is that many other instinctive shooters probably shouldnt shooting be shooting at big game either.

QuoteOriginally posted by Dartwick:
After years of "instinctive" shooting(and lots of practice), my main realization is I usually end up deer hunting with a gun because I dont want to wound and lose a deer.

My gut feeling is that many other instinctive shooters probably shouldnt shooting be shooting at big game either.

Bowhunting is not for everyone  :thumbsup:

Exactly what James and Curt said.  If you think you're ready, just go hunt. The irony to all this good advice is, most of the shots I've missed (and probably everyone else too) have been 10 yard or less, smell those backstraps sizzling, chip shots that I could make with my eyes closed (but apparently not open!  :D )

QuoteOriginally posted by James Wrenn:
Well if you can hit a deer at 3ft and you want to hunt you are ready.

The real answer is if you will pass on a 4ft shot because you know it is too far or not.The mark of a good bowhunter is not the shots he makes.It is those he passes on instead of hopeing to make shots he knows he is not ready for. jmo

I totally agree.   We can't hold ourselves to another's standard when we are the ones making the shot.  We each have to find out own comfort zone.

QuoteOriginally posted by James Wrenn:
Well if you can hit a deer at 3ft and you want to hunt you are ready.

The real answer is if you will pass on a 4ft shot because you know it is too far or not.The mark of a good bowhunter is not the shots he makes.It is those he passes on instead of hopeing to make shots he knows he is not ready for. jmo

That's a great post worth repeating.

The only thing I can add is that making a habit of only shooting at small well defined marks can become a crutch. Persons that do well on uniform targets with highly visible marks can become lost when shooting on bland irregular targets without defined marks unless they practice such. I witnessed two pro staffers earlier this week who shot like a ball of fire on spot targets come completely apart while they were filming a hunt for TV. In fact, I thought their performance was fairly poor in the field. I later noticed while stumping that I had little trouble hitting odd shaped bland objects of various sizes at various distances where they struggled when they didn't have a target with a contrasting small mark to focus upon.

I like to mix it up when I practice with a whole bunch of small game hunting thrown in for good measure. Hard realistic practice makes for an easy hunt:)

hunting skills will develop as will your shooting
if you want to get good enough to hunt then you need practice,  bowhunting is a game of mistakes in all aspects of the hunt thats why it is so much fun to pull it off.  ive taken shots i shouldnt have but i belive that is why i can let down now.....

QuoteOriginally posted by Dartwick:
After years of "instinctive" shooting(and lots of practice), my main realization is I usually end up deer hunting with a gun because I dont want to wound and lose a deer.

My gut feeling is that many other instinctive shooters probably shouldnt shooting be shooting at big game either.

:rolleyes:    

What is the deal with Rick rendos answer!! If what he states was the case their would be very few if any of us hunting. I know no one that can do that everytime. If you can keep them in a 6" circle everytime at 20 yards and smaller at under 20 and you feel confident ya can kill something go hunt. I killed my first Trad deer in 97 and I could not keep every shot in a paper plate at 15 yards, so I shot him at 3 yards instead, no one can make the decision when you are ready but yourself. Shawn

I shoot foam targets mainly to make sure all my arrows are shooting the same. For hunting practice, I wander with a judo arrow, shooting at random distances. You learn pretty quickly how far you can shoot and hit and under what conditions, and once you know that, you're ready to hunt! Don't worry too much about wounding a deer, as long as you're confident that you are capable of making the shot when you try. Things can go wrong, but you can't let that possibility ruin it for you. Otherwise, you'll never enjoy hunting.

Well this year I stopped "instinct" shooting. Im more accurrate.  

I wasnt suggesting bow hunting was a bad idea.

I was suggesting that Im probably not the only hunter who is better off using more classical techniques(like Howard Hill or Byron Fergeson) rather than the focus on the target plan which is so popular.