Has anyone had experience using G5 Montecs?? I have heard that some had bad experiences using them on quartering away shots, they had a tendancy to want to glance more that dig in, because they did not have a long narrow point like the woodsmans and snuffers.
Anyone had similar experiences??
I have some sharpened up for hogs and was wondering if that was a good idea?
Thanks
Jake
My friend has used the Montec's and killed 3 or 4 deer with them and all were pass throughs and short blood trails. All those killed with a Treadway longbow I think. I don't know if any were quartering away shots but I bet there was one or two like that. I am going to use the 125 gr Montec this season. He has not had any problems or lost deer using them. He also uses Wensel Woodmans too and likes them too.
Two years ago I shot a big bou on a quartering shot. Arrow went in behind front leg and was stuck in the rib cage at the very front on the other side. No problems.
(http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/dadselk.jpg)
Montec
L82HUNT
That is a Great Bull!!!!
Please don't take this the wrong way, but that looks like a quartering shot and your penetration does not look that good.
Can you elaborate about the shot??
Thanks
i have shot 3 deer with montecs and only one was not a pass throught it was a strait down shot that hit back bone, rib, and leg. I love them.
Actually it was a complete pass thru, came out tight to opposite shoulder. The arrow in the photo was one used for the reflective purposes in the dark when we came back to start the cleaning.
Only pic I have in the woods, after it was all said and done I wish the arrow was not there.
Ahhh I see, that makes sense and is actually a good idea for finding the bull in the dark.
Thanks alot
my buddy shoots them, there ok but they dont seem to get "scary" sharp. i was told its because the are forged. anyhow thats just my observations, i would go with a snuffer..
gaff
Yeah I had a bad experience with the 125 grain montec. I shot a small doe quartering away at 15 yards with a 59# Black widow and a 580 grain arrow and got NO penetration. I tracked the deer for a mile and lost the blood, in my heart I hope the deer survived. I went out and bought 2 blade magnus. Had the exact same shot with the exact same setup a week later and the arrow didnt blink going through it. I would admit if I made a bad shot, but the arrow went right where I was looking and I could not believe it didnt blow through the deer. This was my first shot at an animal with trad gear and was so upset that I almost gave it up...but I'm glad I didnt now. The broadhead is the only thing I have changed and any deer I killed since have been easy pass throughs.
brill
Wow man, that very strange. Do you think it could have glanced on a rib instead of diggin in, or????
Any thoughts on why there was no penetration??
brill
Every shots different. I bet it was a bone hit. Montecs probably were not the cause of the bad experience. Shot placement.
I've had good results with them. I usually only shoot broadside shots if possible no matter the broadhead choice.
One thing I have learned is that we seldom have the hit we think we do.
The critters move with unbelieveable speed. I once shot a WT buck and thought "Oh Oh" I hit the hips. It ran in a tight circle around me and crashed into a pine. I had hit it behind the front shouler mid ribs and the arrow was stuck 3" in the mud.
Given shot angles and bone,rib, hits, almost any broadhead has the potential to be deflected to a greater or lesser degree. In practice, broadheads rarely deflect unless the shot hits bone and is at a very shallow angle. Not something worth fretting over in the selection of a broadhead IMO> This said, longer- narrow heads do decrease the chances of deflection, and if you find one that is to your liking (flies well for you, takes a good edge etc.) longer and narrow is a better way to go.
My opinion? Avoid quartering shots.
I'm with Biggster! A quartering angle severe enough to deflect the arrow is not a good choice to begin with.
I believe most broadheads made today will do the job, if shot placement is good, and shot selection is good.
It seems we are looking for a broadhead that will turn a poor hit into a good one, not going to happen! There are some that may help on a marginal shot, but for the most part, it comes down to placement and selection.
If you like the Montec use it, I have a buddy who shoots expandables out of a recurve, they are the type that slide back to open, works great for him, he has killed alot of big deer with them. He also picks his shots very carefully.
Did I mention shot selection is critical?
I still think it is hard to find a bad broadhead now days.
Andy
What's a Montec G5? Sounds like a moon crater.
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
My opinion? Avoid quartering shots.
I agree if you are talking quartering towards but I believe quartering away is an excellent shot. But that is not the topic being discussed here.
I have been shooting the Montec and other G5 heads since 2001. I had one Montec that I shot seven animals with before I lost it. Whitetail Deer, Caribou, Black Bear, and Wild Turkey comprised the species with the balance leaning toward WT Deeer. Since 2001 I have taken many quartering shots with the Montec without negative results. No head is perfect and things happen in the woods with all of them, but I have yet to have a negative experience with the Montec. I don't shy away form the quartering away shot with it.
I shot one doe with it at 12 yards quartering away and it broke one rib cleanly and kincked the next one forward on entry. The head continued into the opposite side of the ribs, breaking one more as it passed through into the off shoulder breaking. She went scant yards and piled up. That was the hardest angle I have taken with it and it did the job cleanly. I have that on video, but not sure if I can load it up. I'll tinker around and see what I can do.
It is a great head...if one looks around there are knock off designs from it everywhere. Give them a try...there is a new Montec CS (carbon steel) out now too.
George - Montec is a derivative from the Monoflow Technology used to manufacture the head.
They can be sharpened to a "scary" sharp too.
Good hunting.
Jesse....it is what's being discussed here; angled shots and glancing blows.
George he is asking about G5 heads and what they do on a quartering shot not whether you think someone should take a quartering shot or the ethics of that.
I shot a doe last year slightly quartering, went right through her. She was sneezing at the time of release too, so she distracted herself. She had no clue she had been shot.. Walked 3 yards and dropped.
Mr Sorrells, that is some great info, thanks for taking the time to share that. I would love to see that vidio, sounds awesome!!!
Matty - were you using a Montec G5?
Jesse, if you avoid the quartering shots it doesn't matter about the G5's does it?
Besides, you spell your name wrong.
The compounders in Africa when we went shot G5's and had problems with ANY angle.
No test report needed......
I spell my name wrong???
:confused:
Biggie - could you please expound on your visit to Africa, and the problems the compounders had. Were their arrows too light and had poor penetration, was it poor shot placement, or did the broadhead not preform that well????
Thanks
Jake
Jessie....just kidding :-)
I think it was all of the above Jake. It's kind of an unfair hypothesis I guess, but those guys didn't do the G5 people any favors. Even the PH's didn't like the results they were getting.
The African trackers can find anything that's bleeding and some stuff that isn't. They had looooooong bloodtrails everyday on a 10 days hunt and lost some animals.
Thanks Biggie!
Sure are some differing opinions here about these heads, what is funny is that they range in the extremes, either extremely poor review or extremely good.
Not sure what to think...
Anyone else??????
Jake
Over & Under -
There are a pile of African game pictures on the G5 website...so I will let that speak for itself. Even Eland, the largest antelope, and further members of the big five. I can't comment on the above African experience, except that after the first long track or two, I think I would be finding out the cause. IF...it was the broadhead then I would have changed it or stopped hunting.
Like I said previously, if it wasn't such a tremendously good design and effective head there would not be the designs copied from it.
Good hunting,
Charles
Charles
I agree, had my experience had been the same and I started haveing long undue tracking jobs, I would have started looking for the issue and fixed it in short order, I have a hard time believeing it was even the mojority of the G5's fault, unless they were dull as hell, and again that is not the G5's fault
Take care
Jake
I've put G-5's in 3 caribou, 2 of mine and one wounded by another guy. The only one without a hole in both sides had the broadhead stuck in the heavy rib/brisket stuff at the front of the ribcage. Heavy quartering shot.
57# longbow. Arrow about 520 grains. Speed about 170fps. I don't know why a compound guy would have so much trouble. I sharpen mine very well.
How do these broadheads compare to 125 grain SS Snuffers?
up
Up again. Any comparisons between the SS Snuffer and Montec G5? Thanks.
Well Jake it sounds to me like you asked a question but really didn't want an answer. You've recieved a bunch of input good and bad. Make your decision and go from there.
The cut to the point 3 blades G5, Snuffers and WW are good heads. They will not penetrate with the heavy 2 blade single bevels and quartered away shots require penetration. My number one on any shot is will I get an exit wound.
My opinion is that on a quartered shot you will not get an exit 50+% of the time and as a result, have difficulty recovering your game.
Same BH on a broadside equals 90+% exit and better recovery.
I'm with Biggie, not the shot you want too take with a G5 or any BH.
Mike
Just wondering but what are you shooting and what animals are you shooting at that you would only get passthroughs 50% or less of the time. I get passthroughs about 99% of the time even on quartering shots and even on elk. No African game or hogs though(yet). Just wondering not wanting to start an argument. Thanks.
I was using the Montec G5 when I shot my deer. From my 55# Pronghorn. I do know about 2 or 3 guys in the past couple of years who had good shots on elk and didnt get good penetration using them (G5's)...AND YES THEY WERE COMPOUND SHOOTERS 2 of them were never recovered
There is no boubt that everything does not go right in the woods all of the time. What percentages and such are those? I don't have those calculations, but I do know that I have shot a number of North American big game animals with a Montec 125 or 140 with quartering way shots and not lost any of them nor had a scant blood trail. We are talking ethical quartering away shots that pick up the back of one lung or the liver and the front of the other lung. They do a good job on these shots. If you shoot one further back that that it is not a head problem.
I have never been to Africa, but would like to, and would not hesitate to shoot a Montec there. I am not sure what country it is in, but the number one Lion and host of other anilmals were just reported being taken by a hunter using the same Montec for several of the same animals. I am sure G5 will be posting those pictures soon.
It has been about five to ten years since I read the "Double Helix" by Don Thomas, but I think I remember advice being given to take the quartering away shot by him in that book, because the vitals on African game sits so far forward. Campared to our NA game a hit that looks good on African game may in fact be behind the vitals and a poor hit; so the quartering shot recommended.
The compound issues...I can't speak for these for instances, other than that I have not seen these results in the mixed camps I have been in and compunds throw in a whole other ball game with light non penetrating arrows and speed that is an obvious failure for all to see.
I have read Ashby's and others on the single bevel, two blade, heavy head school of thought and see the merit there. I will say though, that that that type of head is not the only answer.
The Montec is a good head and it will provide and lethal wound channel on a quarting away shot shot consistently leading you to game in the freezer.
Like Jesse said, not arguing a point...just providing facts from my personal experiences with a Montec as O&U asked.
Have good night all...I am flying up to roost.
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
Well Jake it sounds to me like you asked a question but really didn't want an answer. You've recieved a bunch of input good and bad. Make your decision and go from there.
Mike
Not trying to argue, but I am not sure how you came to that conclusion, or why you believe that maybe a little more info on the subject may help me and perhaps others make the same decision. Who says I have to make a decision right now anyway????
I am glad this thread stayed this long so that you could add your insight on the matter, it was certainly helpful in making my decision.
You are correct that quartering shots require penetration, which is what my question was all about. Most of the replies have not been specific why or why not the Montec would preform good or bad on a quarting shot. In fact I think you are the first to address it that specificlly.......maybe I will keep the thread up for a bit longer :D
I was always taught a quartering shot was a good shot, sometimes better than broadside. I have also read that hogs don't seem to bleed much, so I thought a 3 blade would help that, but I have never shot a hog, so not knowing, I thought a thread like this might help.
Jake
Great info Charles! Just what I was hoping for.
Thanks alot
Jake
a co-worker at a sporting shop whenever new heads come in takes them on a tourcher test now this was all done with wheelie bows not sure how or if this info will translate into trad bows but his test consisted or shoot the heads thru 55 gallon drums many times also thru cynder blocks and plywood at extreem angles the montax past all these test all test where made with same head finally shattered after 3rd shot into the cynder block (sorry for the bad spelling hope you guys can understand what i wrote, should have went to class during spelling days insead of the woods)
Yeah Jake, it wasn't a fair insinuation I made that the majority of the poor recoveries were the G5's fault. But IMO a combination of factors including shot placement, arrow weight and how severe the angles were. Same as with ANY broadhead or set-up.
Charles, Don Thomas insight is from practical experience and he shoots 2 blade heads most of the time. BUT, (you knew that was coming) broadside shots on African plains game are best if you can convince yourself to shoot far enough forward. We tend to shy away from hitting North American game in the shoulder, so we may end up shooting too far back. African game has a different bone structure where the legbones go forward allowing dead on "shoulder" shots.
Biggie
I understand and agree 100%. No broadhead will make up for poor decisions before the shot, or a bad shot.
Jake
i just killed a hog last friday with a g5 montec and had awsome results but i still like my stingers better don't know why just do
While I have slipped an arrow in behind the last rib lodging in the off shoulder I also had another hard 1/4ing shot with a 12 guage sabbot...it hit at the back of the rib cage deflected up the rib cage breaking or at least cracking ribs along the way breaking the same side shoulder bouncing off breaking the neck dropping her in her tracks...it never entered the chest cavity
I now only take slightly 1\\4ing shots not the hard 1/4ing a BH can deflect off rib and slide up looking perfect but indeed not be
Jesse,
Not getting a pass through on a 1/4 ing shot is the result of hitting the far shoulder not from BH or bow problems. Elk are pretty easy to get through because if your like me, you stay away from the shoulder and punch nothing but ribs and lungs.
Not all animals are like that, especially these dang pigs we have. Kill zone is low and way forward so you can't go behind the shoulder but an inch. Through the shoulder makes sense but then you get limited penetration, especially if you hit big bone. Turn the hog away from you and you get really big bone and muscle on the far side. It's a dead hog, but in tight brush and only one wound, you might have a hard time finding him.
Mike
A couple years ago my dad shot a bull elk 1/4 ing away pretty hard at 35 yards running with a 55# hybrid longbow, axis shaft, and a 125 montec(total arrow weight 458 gr.) It went in to the fletching and got both lungs.
Personly I've killed deer using the 4 blade stinger, the rasorcap, and the montec. Using bows anywhere from 47# to 63#. They all worked great!
I watched several of my friends kill bulls with the montecs. They've always worked great for us.
Have fun hog hunting it's somthing I dream of doing someday.
I have been using the G5 for about 4 or 5 year
and i love them . I have killed elk and deer with the G5 and it has always pass through brodside and 1/4 away shots. Maybe I am just lucky so I will keep using them until I am unlucky.
Wengerd and Rbush
Great stuff, I beleve with my setup, they should work very well, I am shooting a Centaur 58" 53# at my draw and total arrow weight of approx 530 grains, with most of that up front.
I hopefully will have solid evidence one way or the other in about a month!
Thanks
Jake
Let me know how you do and how you like the montec G5.
Good Luck and Happy Hunting!!!
Mike,
I am like you and stay away from the shoulder on elk. But I am not afraid of them and I will take a quartering away shot at an elk even if I will hit the off side shoulder and do it with confidence.
Especially a deer. I have shot many deer in the shoulder blade(even through both shoulder blades) and I have yet to not get a pass through. I don't have experience with hogs but I think an elk would be a harder shoulder to penetrate than a pig and I have had no problems with elk. Just my observations with my set up and to each his own.
What RBush said let us know how you do over&under. Also post some pics.
Thanks alot Guys, hopefully some I will have some hero pics and a good story in about a month!!!
Good luck!
Looking forward to the pictures and story to follow.
Have a good hunt(s)!!