I am sure this topic has been beat to death, but is barshafting necassary? I have read O.L. ' s directions five times and have been trying, I have an SAII with full length 2216's, 1145 grain heads, I dont know if I am a good enough shot yet to bare shaft. I do know if I cut my arrows to 32" they seem to fly great. I wont be able to buy any more this year [I have 18] what should I do? Continue trying to bare shaft or cut them and call it close enough?
Whats the weight of your bow and how far do you draw? Might be able to help out some.
Mike
My bow is 55 lbs @ 28", I pull it to about 30 ". Any help would be appreciated. I wonder about Bryron Fergusons method of cutting the shaft in relation to how far the nock is right on impact although OL says this is irrelevant. I am not sure which method to go with but I dont want to cut my shafts prematurly. Any ideas? If it appears to me the arrows are flying straght by eye, even with a broadhead on, I guess my question is are they really?
If you're still coming over tomorrow, we'll get you all tuned up.
No
If your BH's and feild points are grouping together you are done. IMO.
I always use a wide broadhead, it'll show you the same thing as a bareshaft without all the form flaws.
SL
NO!!!!
No.
QuoteBareshaft tuning necassary?
No.
But it is a great tool to quickly either get, or verify you are tuned to your center range(most forgiving) for both spine and nock hght. If you watch a slo mo video of an arrow with "perfect flight", you quickly see that having the ability for the human eye to determine perfect flight is a myth. No arrow flys like "a dart" - when flight is bad enough to see, it is really bad.
Steve
If you have enough experience to know what will work from your bow like George,Ben and Biggie,it is not necessary.However if you are new and try to shoot a .350 shaft from a 45lb bow because you wanted the extra weight of the .350 shaft,it is necessary if for no other reason than to show you that you were wrong.
No , many people have been shooting for years without doing it.There are also many that find it very easy and the quickest way to set up a bow and have been doing it for many years.Stick big enough feathers on the back and twist them real tight and anything looks good going down range.Just one other way people tune bows. ;)
No it's not
If you are using it beware that a stiff arrow can give you a weak indication by bouncing off the shelf midway up the arrow.
Try heavier AND lighter points before cutting to be sure
It's not "necessary", but everything gets easier if your arrows match your bow.
I'd use a metal fence post strung with brake cable for a bow before I would shoot an arrow I hadn't tuned. Without tuning, you are guessing that your shooting is the problem. After tuning, you KNOW. ;)
No. However, I have knowledgable people stand behind me to help check for flight problems etc. I wouldn't just go by my eye alone as I've discovered that people have in the past caught a little "kick" that I hadn't. It was great when Ray owned Lost Nation in NH because he not only had buckets of arrows to tune with, he would actually help you tune/pick the right arrow for your bow. As a beginner then I found his expertise invaluable. I am shooting the same arrow out of two different bows now which I think is great for hunting travel trips. The only difference is the arrow sticks further out on my longbow than my recurve by about an inch.
Not if you are going to shoot BH's..If you aren't, it's the only way you'll do a good job.
"I have read O.L. ' s directions five times and have been trying, I have an SAII with full length 2216's, 1145 grain heads, I dont know if I am a good enough shot yet to bare shaft."
If you think you need to be a good shot, you need to read it again! :) ....O.L.
QuoteOriginally posted by elbow:
I am sure this topic has been beat to death, but is barshafting necassary?
No, it's just one of many ways to make sure your setup is tuned.
If you're going to shoot carbons, I think you'll discover bareshafting is cheaper.
I think he has answer to his question after the two hours we spent today. ;)
The good old paper test is enough. I am with Kelly Peterson on this subject. Bareshaft testing is way overrated and for a lot of people creates confusion.
If you can´t shoot tight groups with a fletched arrow, how will you do it with an arrow without fletching?
Bareshafting is a method to finetune setups of experienced archers with a consistent form. It is real popular with olympic archers and should remain pretty much in this category.
O. L., did you say that backwards? I needed to bareshaft to get my broadheads flying right. With field points, you can shoot a much wider range of spine and get acceptable performance, but for broadheads you have to be right on.
Once again the Vermonster has come to the rescue, Finally determined that a 400 spine carbon or a 2117 is what I need, he is an amazing teacher, thanks again for the help!
Don,
I think what O.L. means is if you are shooting broadheads, you will find out if they are tuned without bareshafting. With field points, your fletching can cover up problems so they aren't apparent.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
Don,
I think what O.L. means is if you are shooting broadheads, you will find out if they are tuned without bareshafting. With field points, your fletching can cover up problems so they aren't apparent.
If they aren't apparent are they really problems? Frank
Frank
I like to bareshaft to the extreme because I've found that if I am not tuned perfectly it can show up at the worst times even with field points.Keep in mind I mostly shoot 3D
If I am shooting a shaft that is a little weak,I may be able to hit a half dollar size spot at 15-20 yards but if I take a 40-50 yard shot I will shoot 6-8 inches to the right even if I make a perfect shot.
If I am shooting a borderline stiff shaft, and I don't get as clean a release or I collapse a little, I think it shows up more than a better tuned shaft.
It may all be in my head,but I have improved my overall shooting by tuning well.
tecum-tha - if you read OL's method of tuning, it will debunk most of what you just posted. Group tuning is not just for Oly archers - works for everyone, even relative newcomers, if they understand and follow the method. Extremeley useful, but everyone can choose to tune their bow anyway they are comfortable with
Steve
It is not difficult and takes the guess work out. It is easier having someone with some experience helping you when you are new. ;)
I told Craig this thread of his would open a can of worms, especially since he knew he would be doing it with me regardless of the answers he got here. He was having trouble trying it on his own though, but what do you expect from a Sheriff Lieutenant anyways? He can't even spell necessary for Pete's sake. :biglaugh:
Tecum-tha SteveB is correct. To use OLs method ya do not have to be a god shot at all. Just ask OL and he will tell ya he is not that good of shot! :bigsmyl: I can tell ya that I can shoot as tight a group with bareshafts at 20 yards as I can with fletched, why because I tuned my arrows to the bow. You can do the same thing with fletched shafts by shooting a big wide broadhaed, if they group to the left for a righty they are stiff, add some more point weight. Shawn
Frank V, I'll tell on myself...I get lazy occasionally especially thinking my 40+ years of shooting will tell me what's wrong by "eyeball".
A while back I was setting up some wood arrows to a new bow. They seemed by eyeball to like 145 tips. I wanted to shoot WW's (for elk) but they are only 125 so I put 20grs of lead inside with a short taper..They were flying good and grouping well, but about 1 out of every 5 to 10 shots I'd get a "flyer" about 6-8" right (I'm right handed)...It was never the same arrow so it wasn't a BH alignment problem. I just chalked it up to "me" screwing up a release or torqueing the bow...Later on I decided to use Snuffers for deer and slapped some 145gr Snuffers on..Whoa! THEY ALL grouped a foot or more right of the field tips...They were underspined with 145 tips. I took the 20grs out of the WW's, went to 125 Snuffers and field tips...All my "flyers" went away.
Moral of the story, you can't tell by eyeball with field tips or narrow broadheads. They can "look" fine but your groups are going to be bigger then they should be and when we do screw up, you're going to miss further then you should if you aren't perfectly tuned. Wide broadheads tell you exactly what's wrong if you know what to look for. The bare shaft planing method does the exact same thing. Many of us just chalk up what we see as being our screw up instead of understanding we might not be as well tuned as we think. Had I hunted with those WW's without straightening out my tuning, I might have got one of the "good" shots instead of the "flyer". But I might also have screwed up a release and or got caught in a rain storm with wet feathers. The best thing would be a miss, the worse a wounded critter.
As for being a good shot and shooting good groups, any one of us, take a target say 24"x24" with our field tips and start backing up till we can barely keep all our arrows on the target. That might be 20 yards for some or 80 for others. Whatever that distance is, it can't be considered a "good group". Start mixing in either bare shafts or wide Bh's like the Snuffers...If you aren't well tuned, you won't keep many if any of them on the target...Which way they miss tells us exactly whats wrong..Make adjustments till you keep them all on the target and you are golden! That's the planning method in a nut shell. Group size is relative. Good tuning won't stop us from missing, it just keeps us from missing as far! If makes our arrows shoot flatter and penetrate better. No down side to doing the best we can... :) ....O.L.
Bareshaft tuning pays off when you end up shooting in wet weather, and your feathers are all wet. You'll see then! :thumbsup:
QuoteIf they aren't apparent are they really problems? Frank
Not until something else comes into the equation and you miss. A puff of wind, a wider broadhead, a sloppy release...
Tuning your arrows eliminates variables. That's how you increase your chances of having enough things go right to achieve your goal when you are wrapped up in the furball.
I was bareshafting some new arrows grizzlysticks I bought off of the classifieds. They are stiff for my 50# limbs but I bought them in anticipation of some new 65# limbs. With 250 grain heads they were still a bit stiff, though the major thing I noticed was a strong nock high on the bare shaft, and hitting much lower than the fletched arrow, which hit exactly with my weaker aluminums. Would the new arrows require a change in nock point? I was also amazed at how similar the arrow flew under 20 yards despite being much heavier and with a MUCH heavier tip, my oghhter arrows ar 2018 with 125 grain heads
By the way I truly appreciate the patience and teaching the members of this site put into us newbies.
A different diameter shaft can affectively change your nock set height. Are your shafts the same diameter?
The diameter is the same. Both take 5/16 tips.
I don't have anywhere near the experience that most of the rest of these guys do, but I don't see why you wouldn't bare shaft tune. I have tuned 3 bows using that method and I didn't find it difficult following OL's instructions. I use a field tip test kit from 3 Rivers with 6 different weight field tips and it works like a charm, and trust me, my form leaves much to be desired.
For you guys that don't bare shaft I would be interested in seeing the results if you took one of your shafts and stripped the fletchings and checked the flight.
In the '80's, after 30 years of bowhunting, I thought I knew what I was doing. I always ended up with narrow two-blade heads because the big heads did really strange things in flight. Dan Quillian convinced me that bare-shaft tuning was worth trying, and it changed my archery forever! Suddenly I had no problem shooting the big heads, and my field point groups were cut in half. I found that I had been 10 pounds underspined, based on my eyeball tuning. Now I've been bowhunting for 45 years, and my success in the last 15 has been much better, thanks to good advice and good tuning.
Sure, there's other ways to get properly tuned, but bare shaft tuning gets you there more quickly, and with better odds of success.
It came to me as I lay awake in bed at 3 this morning. If the Grizzlystiks taper the fletching end will be thinner than my current arrow. This might cause the high nock result with the bare shafts.
I just got one of the test kits from 3 rivers and plan on going back and working with my aluminums this afternoon to see if i can get any better flight.
Maine, they are the same diameter. BUT they area also tapered, which seems to give weird bareshafting results.
IMO NO its not necessary...shoot AD's!