I can only hope that those of you with great carbon experience will be as patient with me, an absolute carbon newbie, asking questions that have been asked and answered here many times before, as I try to be when the table is turned. To wit: I recently acquired a single GrizzlyStik carbon shaft with 300-grain (in fact 294) target point and 315-grain Ashby broadhead (in fact 320 even after sharpening by KME) ... and frankly don't like the results ... insofar as my accuracy and (the arrow's) penetration both are way better than what I'm accustomed to with woodies, and I want to keep loving and using woodies. Anyhow, taking this off-season experiment to the next step (or likely a step back) I was at WallyMart today and noticed they had Easton Carbon Express "Terminator" shafts on sale for $5 (normally $6), with 4" rubbery plastic fletching and aluminum inserts. So I bought one and brought it home and stuck on a 175 grain target point and shot it from my 55# Shrew and it flew great, if slightly nock-high on impact. I figured that was due to the fact that the shaft is about 2/3 the diameter of an 11/32 woodie, which I have my string nock set for. So I nocked slightly lower and -- right on. Then I tried it with a 300 grain field point ... right on again, but lower impact of course. The next test was to shoot it at a tree with the 300-grain point, at an extreme angle. As hoped for, the arrow blasted off a chunk of thick ponderosa bark and glanced off ... zero damage to shaft, even with that extreme weight up front. Now, plastic vanes aren't supposed to fly clean off the shelf, but these did. No matter, I have my limites and cleaned them off and refletched with 5" shield feathers. Still fly great but no better. In general, I'm much impressed with the forgiveness of carbons re spine and bow weight, compared to woodies. But following all that BS intro (sorry, Terry), my specific question is this: What is YOUR experience with the bargain-basement WallyMart Easton carbon shafts? Are they just for practice, or would you hunt big game with them? I can't tell by looking if they're tapered or not, as the GrizzlyStiks are. I know that in general we get what we pay for. But there are always exceptions. Thanks, Dave
They have always worked for me. :bigsmyl:
Nothing at all wrong with them.It has been a lot more animals killed with CX arrows than with a grizzly stick. :)
Dave - a carbon is a carbon is a carbon.
Wallyworld does stock name brand arrows, the ones you have are the Carbon Express (not Easton, they're a different company) Terminators. Whether you have the the Lites or the XP's I'd need to know what was on the outside.
The Terminator series comes in two spine variation - a 45/60 (.400) and a 60/75 (.340), with the major difference being the overall weight of the arrows.
You can also sometimes find arrows from Beman, Easton, or in rare instances GoldTip.
All of these arrows are typically full length and pre-glued. They're no different than the arrows you'd buy in the packing box at the sporting goods store, except they're already put together.
I usually wait until they go on "mega" sale, I've found then as low as $2.00 depending on where you are in the season and how bad they want to get rid of them.
I shoot carbons almost exclusively now, the amount of abuse they can handle (concrete walls, rebar, and other obscenely hard objects) is incredible before failure.
Sometimes you just need to find the right arrow.
:thumbsup:
Dave,
The animals I've hunted with them don't seem to know the difference. Of course, regardless what material the arrow is made of, when my arrow flies over their back, they just don't stick around too long.
I've found the discount shafting to be just as durable as shafts from anywhere else. When we head out West on hunting trips, using carbons allows us to pack fewer arrows. We know that if we were to ever run low on ammo, (fat chance), our practice arrows would fill in just fine. A carbon arrow is not going to take a bend like a practice aluminum shaft might, thus rendering it useless as a hunting shaft.
The Terminator arrow that you bought will be about 300 grains w/o point if it's a 4560 and 29" long. They're not tapered. I don't know what the heavier spine Terminator will weigh, but you might want to try it to achieve the heavier mass weight that you prefer. The extra spine would allow you to really front-load the arrow with excessive tip weight. But if you already have a 4560 spine, and it flies great with the 300 grains, by all means, stick with it because you're getting the mass weigh that you want.
I've used the Wallyworld arrows(re-fletched) on deer, and have never had an issue with them.
Have fun with your experiment.
knobby
Dave, I have about 3 dozen of those, the cheaper ones, $3.75 here in KY, Hve taken a slew of them, used them for stump shooting, mine weigh about 10GPI and are toughhhhh! I thing a lot of people overthinkg arrow tuning, bow tuning do too much of it. I usually start with a too heavy spine, and add weight till it shoots, actually only use 3 different arrow types, can get by with 2 for 9 different bows, the main problem is usually in our inconsistenf form/release, speaking for me.
Hello Dave and guys, a few years ago at are wal mart they had the easton gold alum for $0.75 each and they wanted to sell them all.. I thinks I got every last one they had all the same size all I had to do was take the vanes off.. I think I got 5 doz that year.. Man I havr not see them go for that in a long time.....
Cody
At least you can buy arrows at Walmart.Around here all the stores have quit carrying anything like that.If I want anything at all I have to oder on-line or take a road trip somewhere to get it.I used to shoot the Terminators and then the Wolverine brand they sold.I don't shoot arrows that heavy now but they worked real well at the time.
the only bad thing i have to say about the carbon express shafts is that they are made in korea instead of the states.
with that said, gold tip now has a manufacturing plant in mexico.
i believe that easton/beman are still made here in the states.
Thanks guys for all the good honest feedback, here and in pm's. Your experiences confirm what seems apparent from my short experience. I did refletch, standard 5" 3-feather so that now it looks like a "real" arrow. I have a friend with a new BW who wants to try carbons and isn't rich and I'll recommend he start with these.
New question: These shafts come with what appear to be aluminum inserts. Anyhow know what size brass or steel inserts for the 4560, and who sells them? And how is the insert glued in -- will a bit of heat get it loose, or will I have to cut the end off?
Finally, have any of you left the plastic vanes on for use shooting off the shelf? Again, I'm a woody and feather loyalist. But I'm also a realist and always interested in the possibilities of what works and what does not within the realm of what I think of as acceptable technology -- that is, wheels, gears, springs, etc. anything that offers an active mechanical advantage to shooting. What a stickbow and arrow are made of, to me, is a matter of personal choice, not traditionalism or ethics. I can't really tell any difference between how this shaft flies with vanes or feathers, Shrew Classic Hunter. But it sure looks better with feathers! Thanks again, Dave
those 45/60s will take the standard 5/16" brass inserts. 3 rivers carries them as does kustom king, and rocky mtn specialty gear in denver carries them, possibly valley trad archery in silt.
Dave, i use hot melt on my inserts...screw in field point to hold with pliers,
heat the insert, apply glue, heat till bubbly and install with a twisting motion, and submerge in water to cool and set glue.
chunck the vanes...strip the vanes off and use feathers.
if ya need different weight field points, pm me and i will send ya some.
sammy
3 rivers sells 50 and 100 grain brass inserts that will fit these arrows. I shot these same arrows from Wally World for years in my wheelie bow and would still be shooting them if they were long enough to shoot in my recurve.
Sounds like one or two "vaned" arrows might compliment the quiver for wet weather hunts.
Personally, I get nervous using heat on carbons during insert removal. Tried it only once, and was very careful....but not careful enough. Only takes a bit too much heat to render them unsafe or ruined.
Im glad you posted this, I was eyeballing the discount arrows at my local store...
QuoteOriginally posted by Smallwood:
those 45/60s will take the standard 5/16" brass inserts. 3 rivers carries them as does kustom king, and rocky mtn specialty gear in denver carries them, possibly valley trad archery in silt.
Dave, i use hot melt on my inserts...screw in field point to hold with pliers,
heat the insert, apply glue, heat till bubbly and install with a twisting motion, and submerge in water to cool and set glue.
chunck the vanes...strip the vanes off and use feathers.
if ya need different weight field points, pm me and i will send ya some.
sammy
Yep, the standard .245 OD brass inserts work great.
Or, if you pick up a set of 50gr brass adder weights from GoldTip with the long allen key, you can just screw the weights through the back end of the arrow by removing the nock.
You can remove the stock insert, screw in an old tip and VERY CAREFULLY heat the end tip. Then you can eith pull it out slowly, or I just use a piece of 3' 3/16" cold rolled steel rod to push the insert out.
Be careful with the amount of heat you use, as too much can break down the strands in the arrow, the you need to cut the end off and start over.
I you use hotmelt, I find a cup of extremely hot water works great, heats evenly, and is less messy.
:thumbsup: :coffee:
One last (?) question: For replacement insert nocks. I assume the same size as inserts: 5/16 or .245? Thanks.
Great stuff, fellers. Now I feel an urge to run to town and buy what's left of them before the word gets out and the rush starts! dave
Dave, I read where someone was shooting vanes off the shelf and only had to play with the nock height to get good flight. I just think with feathers you have more forgiveness and better flight. I haven't had problems using heat to remove inserts. Just thread a field point and heat the end of that until the glue loosens. Pops right out. Don't forget to prep the inside of the shaft when your putting the inserts in.
Good luck. owlbait
Dave, don't let where you found them fool you, those are some great arrows!
We have all the accessories for them too, with our famous friendly shipping prices. :thumbsup:
"Points and More" at Braveheart Archery (http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_23.htm)
We also have some new similar carbons, priced friendly too at just over $4 a shaft. :D
Carbon Express Arrow Shafts at Braveheart Archery (http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_29.htm)
Good shooting all!
When I first went to carbon arrows, I started with the AD trad shafts, then went to Grizzly Stick and I finally settled into Beman/Easton shafts. They are all great shafts and I've had no trouble tuning them to my bows from 48# upto 60#. Carbons will break and I've broke one or two of all the brands mentioned! LOL! It takes alot more to wreck a carbon than it did my wood or aluminum shafts. Currently shooting 400 Bemans with 100 gr. brass inserts and 200 gr. points. Cut to 29" and fletched with 3-5" high back shields I am right at 600 gr. Bare shaft very well from my 53# Rose Oak. Mike