Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: GMMAT on February 21, 2009, 01:47:00 PM
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Sold my longbow, last night, and I sold every arrow I had with it. That's fine. I was going to go to carbons next, anyways.
I've got a Dorado 50# recurve on order (DL is 28"). These arrows are rated for bows from 50-65#'s.
I don't know much about tuning tradional bows/arrows, but how could these arrows NOT be OK for me? I'd like to shoot 125gr. BH's and shoot a 30" arrow (like I've been doing), but that isn't set in stone.
I just want to have arrows here when my bow gts here.
Any input?
Jeff
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Jeff,
PM sent.
paul
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I'm not a pro and still learning myself. But carbon is naturally a stiff arrow and takes a bit of weight up front to parodox away from your bow riser correctly. Might have to add some weight up front. Plus it will add some mass to your arrow too. you caan get brass or steel inserts to add some weight. Good luck..JB
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The 250's will be much too stiff at 30" with 125 grain point. You may get away with the 150's because the Dorado is past center. The 250's will have to have at least another 100 grains on the tip to work at 30".
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I don't mind adding tip weight, at all! I just need to know what I will need to have on hand to tune these.
What would you suggest?
Also....with the way the dorado is...could I not shoot it closer to center to offset the stiffness of the cx's?
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Definately go with 150's
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Jeff, carbons tend to be very stiff.I decided to try carbons myself.I shoot a 49-50# recurve.I was kinda suprised myself to find at my drawlength (29-29.5) that a fullength CX250 w/250 upfront was to stiff for me.Ended up with fine tuning a CX150 30.5" w/250 grns up front.And the arrow flys like a dart and hits hard(554grns) w/a 2 gpi tube,wrapped and 4-4" fletch.Hope this helps. PETE
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I'm shooting 250's full length out of a 56# bow and use 225 up front.... they are WAY too stiff for your set-up.... need more point weight. Better to go 150's
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11.1gpi x 30" = 333gr. + 11gr insert + 150gr tip = 500gr (by the time we add in a nock and feathers.
Even if I had to go with 175 gr. tips....what's the rub? Can't I weaken the spine with more tip weight....and not have to drop to a lighter arrow?
I'm just asking, guys. I can see the merit in the 150's in that I probably could set them up exactly like the legacy's I've been shooting (125gr. tip and 30"). I might could even shorten the 150s up, some????
Thanks.
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I'm shooting full length 250s out of 61-63# bows at 30" draw & I still need 100gn inserts & 200gn points to get them weak enough!
To be honest Jeff, you would need probably 400gn+ upfront to get the 250s to fly.
Go with the 30" 150s with 200gn points & you should be somewhere near.
CX shafts are waaaaay stifer than you'd think
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Jeff.....You always weaken the spine with more point weight, but you can't always weaken it enough. To get those 250s to work at 30" you are going to probably need 300 grains or more up front. I don't know who did the spining on those shafts but they are not 50/65 with 125 points. Play with one and see what it takes to get flight; we can guess all day here. Order some heavy inserts and points so you can build up the weight.
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OK....more I read....more it sounds like 150's are better suited for my setup.
So let's do the math. 10gpi X 30" (outside) = 300gr + 125gr tip = 425gr.
Now....
If I add a weight tube (let's say 3gpi) that'll get me up "close" to 525gr (incl. nock/insert/feathers).
How's THAT sound?
AND ...will the weight tubes affect spine (dynamic)?
Thanks for indulging me.
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250s will work if left 31" 100gr brass insert and tip weight of 175 to to 300gr tips will give you a real good arrow 150 will tune with less tip weight but will give ou a lighter arrow combo
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Jeff, I'd go with more weight up front in the way of a brass insert, I honestly think you'll need it!
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Gordon...
Thanks! If I could...I'd like to utilize the 125gr heads I already have. So...I'd mentioned getting to total 525 gr arrow weight with 3gpi weight tubes. Would it hurt anything to go ahead with a 5gpi tube? I could get "close" to 600gr. and still be shooting the 150's (which sound like they're going to be easier to tune) and still be shooting (hopefully) my 125gr. heads.
I'm trying to learn, guys!
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Honestly, I've never figured out why so many folks have to stick a 5 lb. weight on the front of a carbon to make it fly.
I shoot 50#'s @ 29" out of every recurve I own. 31 inch long CX 250's with 125 up front fly perfectly for me. And when I say perfect, I mean they bareshaft to point of aim at 30 yds.
I don't get it. Am I the only one out there who doesn't have to front load a carbon arrow to make it fly????
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You guys confuse the hell out of me....lol.
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I think you are on the right track now. I don't know about the weight tubes and spine. I am new to the carbon arrow thing also. However, if they don't weaken spine you may still need weight up front.
I just got back from bare shafting new bow and arrows. I am now at a 500(3555)spine carbon with 100 gr. inserts and 100 gr point and 30.5" arrow with 46# at 28" and pulling right about 28". That looks to be very close to tuned. I need to test more to make sure. I kind of want to use 125 heads and my 50# limbs. I am just guessing that I could end up someplace around a 30” arrow with the 125’s, 100 inserts, and 50# limbs.
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Don't forget the weight of your insert-nock-feathers. Hap
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Slow down bud. I don't have the charts, but the CX Heritage 250 is a 85-90# spine. You are way off the charts in point weight to make it shoot. Weight tubes will not do much of anything here to get where you need to be. Unless you are into the EXTREME EFOC, and hence not going to use 125 heads, you are way too stiff. Seriously, look at 150's. You will be happier in the long run.
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Otto, I agree, Been shootin CX Heritage 250's out of everything I own, L/B, Recurve, Hybrid, cut to center, past center, 1/8'' From center mid to high 50#'s 30'' long standard insert, 145 to 175 grn. tip ,, No problems,, Arrows are heavy enough at 10 grn./lb. All this wt. up front I dont get ...
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You guys are just special, that's all. :bigsmyl:
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Maybe it's just my Very Clean Release ........
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AdamH
I uh...er...cough cough...I ah..cough... got me one of them clean, cough, releases too!!!!!
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Otto and Adam, I'm with you guys. My ~46# bows shoot GT3555's full length with 185grs on the tip.
My 55# bows like 4560's cut to 30" with 185grs also, my 60# bow shoot 4560's with just 125gr, or 6075's with 225grs.
I tried a carbon with the weight/spine combinations others have suggested and they were always way too weak.
I believe the string material, bow performance level, and release all effect this. I'll stay with my overspined carbons. ;)
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Below is a msg I sent to CX and their response. I was using the 4560's in two different Harrison longbows of 66 and 60 pounds at my draw of 27".
I had to use 50 and 100 grain inserts and shoot them at 29.5" to get good flight.
Maybe you can talk to them too.
Larry
Larry,
The reason you are having a hard time finding the terminator hunter 4560's is because they have been discontinued for a couple years. I would recommend using our Heritage 250 as that arrow is the same weight but a little bit stiffer spine. The old terminator hunter 4560's where a .388 spine the Heritage 250 is a .373 spine. Please feel free to give me a call if you have any questions.
Greg
810 720-8908
-----Original Message-----
From:Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:21 PM
To: Ken Cooper; contact; Greg Jones; Brian Wright
Subject: Replacements for carbonexpress terminator hunter 45/60 shafts.
Below is the result of your feedback form. Tuesday, December 23, 2008 at
18:20:44
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Web Site From: Carbon Express Arrows Contact Request
message: I have been using them for my longbows. It has been both difficult and expensive to get good flight out of my bow w/carbons. I have managed to do so with the above and find them nearly impossible to acquire any more. What do you have that has about the same weight and spine?
Submit: Send
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LKH
Wasilla Alaska eh???
Tell Sarah I said hello.
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I know her dad a bit. Nice fella. Never met her.
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Adam and Otto,,You guys are cracking me up..LOL..I've shot carbons without the big up front weight and they flew great. I shoot a 60# fire fly and a 51# pitsley predator. I can shoot a radial X weave pro 300's out of the 60# bow with 225 grains up front,,shoots great,,put them in my predator and they fly terrable. The preadator really likes a 3555 gold tip "full length" with 175 up front, 50 gr brass insert. See I'm in the same boat as you, I have 125 grain stingers for my Bh's and I like them alot and I worked arrow setups around my braudheads. I can also shoot these gold tips out of my 60# bow and they fly really quick. As for arrow weight I'm safe with the game I hunt, whitetail and turkey, and other small game. I beleive that an arrow that is way to weak is worst off than an arrow to stiff. I guess what I'm saying is that an arrow that can not recover from parodox efficiently is worst off than an arrow that corrects from it prematurly. Plus center cut should give you some leeway to play with. Adam and Otto are right as is everyone else with their knowledge of arrow spine and deflection,,Lots of great info in this thread, try to take it in and pick it apart and have fun with it don't get to wrapped up in it. As far as having things on hand you can go to the classifieds and get some 50 and 100 grains brass inserts, weight tubes, if you can't find them there find them in the sponsors area and just have it ready for when your new bow arrives. By the way those dorrado's are really nice bows, what model did you get camo or black and maple?
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If you just use the shaft selector at Easton archery and have a bow cut past center with ff string it is pretty easy to pick arrows.Just use the modern longbow for the impute instead of recurve and they will work just fine.The confusion with carbons always comes when people want to load the front or try and get super heavy arrow weights for bows.jmo
btw..the selector says you need a 500spine.The heritage 150 is a little stiffer so you should be able to go up to a 175gn point or possibly even a 200.That will be planty of weight for a 50lb bow. jmo again. :)