Disclaimer: I am relatively new to Trad shooting having put up my wheels in March of 08. Most of what I know is from reading books, the internet, the fine posts found here.
I also know some very good traditional archers.
Having followed the last 2 CE heritage threads and having read (several times) OL Adcocks bow and arrow tuning I decided to experiment on my own.
I shoot a crow creek recurve 54@28 and my draw is 29. Brace height 7" nock set at 3/8"
I have been shooting the 250's cut at 30" this season with 125g broadhead up front and have been very happy with them. A couple of weeks ago I added 100g inserts and am even happier.
Since the previous Heritage posts showed almost equal support for the 150 and 250 in the mid 50# range I decided to cut all arrows to 30" and use 125g field points.
Here are the arrows I shot from a distance of 10 yards. Later as time allows I will move out to 20yards and then change over to 145g field tips and start fresh.
White nock = 250 cut to 30" 12g insert with 125g field point... 498g total
Orange nock = 250 cut to 30" 100g insert with 125g field point ...566g total
Green nock = 150 cut to 30" 100g insert with 125g field tip ...539g total
Yellow fletch = 250 cut to 30" 100g insert with 125g field tip ...577g total
Red fletch = 150 cut to 30" 100 g insert with 125g field tip... 551g total
Here are some of the results. My problem is I do not know how to interpret what I am seeing. :banghead:
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20125/DSCN3363.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20125/DSCN3364.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20125/DSCN3362.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20125/DSCN3365.jpg)
It looks to me like:
250 with 20gr insert 125gr point = Stiff
250 with 120gr insert 125gr point = mabe a little stiff but close
150 with 120gr insert 125gr point = weak
I would say you could shoot the 150 with 20gr insert and 125gr point or the 250 with 120gr insert and 125gr point. This is also close to what I have seen with my R&D longbows not cut to center. Hope this helps. Steve
It looks to me as 250s are your arrow. Even the the ones with the heavier inserts are still looking a touch stiff which, for me personally, is how I tune my hunting arrows in order to shoot whatever bhead design I want. The fletchings will also add spine, so some may tune a little different. Others with more experience will chime in, but it looks to me like orange nocks are your arrows.
Have fun,
Ethan
I shoot 250's with 100g brass insert and 125g tips cut to 30.25". Shoot them out of RC cut past center 54@28 and draw almost 29". Great flight. Mine scale out to a little over 600g.
Orange nocks look pretty good.
White nock a little stiff in second pic (nock right)
Green nock - weak (nock left)
That is if you are a right-handed shooter
I think JOKER is right in his assessment. I do think you'd be better if you could fletch up 3 of each and 3 bareshafts and shoot groups with them.
ex. 3 fletched 250's with 120grain inserts 125 grain head and 3 bare shafts same specs. Shoot all of them, then take a pic of the group. Do this a few times so you know they are always grouping the same. Then you will have a better idea if you need to go stiffer, weaker, etc...
I think the 250 with 245gr up front should be pretty close, though...Mike
This beginner needs a redo..I think
I just realized with your comments to this point about angles I may need to change my back stop.
Why?
I am shooting at the back stop right handed about 4yards off center to the left of the back stop.
Time to move things around and get a couple more fletched arrows and loosen up some nocks.
I did shoot the 145g at 10 yards and this is what I got.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20145/DSCN3366.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20145/DSCN3367.jpg)
At this point I lost all concentration. The wind started gusting knocking over an umbrella and dislodging a few coconuts out of the tree.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20145/DSCN3368.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20145/DSCN3369.jpg)
I moved the back stop so I was shooting straight on. The move has made a difference regarding the arrow-nock left-right alignment question. I quickly realized I I was getting tired and should stop.
here are two photos from 10 yards with 100g inserts with 145g field point. Orange nocks are CE 250's the green are 150's.
One thing I notice is that the bareshafts are hitting with the nock up and the arrow at a downward angle.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20145/DSCN3371.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20145/DSCN3374.jpg)
and at 15 yards
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20145/DSCN3378.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/bare%20145/DSCN3380.jpg)
I say the 150 cut to 30 with 175 grains up front would be perfect the 250 are stiff and you would need around 250-275 up front for perfect flight. Also lower the nock point between a 1/16th. and an 1/8th. Shawn
Double check those numbers for the arrows in your last post. You state the orange nocks are 150's and the green 120's.
A little nock high is not always bad when bareshafting - IMO - But as Shawn said, you can tweak it out easily by moving the nock. I tie on my nocks so that I can move it up or down easily and in small increments.
Orange nock arrows still look good.
Also, if you are shooting with any wind it can/will affect the arrow flight and impact angle, especially the fletched arrows.
Aggie thanks besides tired must be brain dead too. I changed the numbers. Thanks
I'm color blind...it's all just confusing to me.
The orange ones are good. Your rig is very similar to mine and your results are very consistent with what I shoot - 56# recurve, Heritage 250 30" with 210 grains up front all together. I had been shooting a little lighter point but tried heavier a few weeks ago and got good results. If you're going for FOC, shoot the 250's for sure.
I shoot the same as Aggie out of both my bows 54lb RC and a 60lb LB. CX 250 30inches 100 grain insert and 145field point. Orange looks good to me.
Shawn
My setups are very close to yours. When I shoot carbons I use 29.5-30" CX 4560 TH's (same spine as the 250) with 3-4" vanes, 50 grain inserts, and 125 grain points. They shoot just peachy...
I shoot the CX 150 with 200gr broadheads up front no brass insert cut to 29" out of hybrid longbows and recurves from 46lb to 52lb and get perfect arrow flight. When I go to around 250gr's up front they start showing signs of weak spine for me.
I'd go with the 250's and put a little more weight up front, maybe 160gr points
The 250s have an equivalent spine weight of 84+lbs. You're shooting 57# at 29" draw length. I shoot a 55#@28" and have found they shoot real well at 225gr tips.
Hey snag.. after those other posts I decided to play with both. 250's are going to be my choice for this one.
I have a new bow coming that is very similar to the 54# that will be 47@28. I think I will need to drop down to the 150 for that one. I am using this as a learning experience.
here is a little preview of what I am waiting on.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/python.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/python1.jpg)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/python2.jpg)
You're on track now! Have fun!
I settled on the 250's with 100g inserts. What I am working on now is front tip weight and final length of 30" or 30 1/2". The field tip weights are 125,145 and 175. Between 10-15 yards the grouping is great and I can't say one is better than the other coming out of the bow or its flight pattern.
This is typical group. Different weight and length just change position.
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii45/heilakka/arrows/ce%20250/DSCN3388.jpg)