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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: fountain on February 01, 2009, 10:16:00 AM

Title: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: fountain on February 01, 2009, 10:16:00 AM
i have been trying to find the "perfect" arrow for my longbow, again.  i am now trying a 2018 and/or 35/55 both with 200 gr. points.  i mainly played more with the 2018's yesterday.  i can get them to fly straigh, but cant get the nock high out to save my life.  i have had the nock at every possible location on the string, and still cant get it.  i am pretty sure that it is me not getting the same release consistently.  i got close and was very aggrevated and went ahead and put the feathers on.  it flew good. the final arrow weighed in at 608.  i am not a big fan of an arrow that heavy and slow.  i will give the 35/55 a shot when i can pick up a few more somewhere.  i feel that they will be 475-200  grains and that may suit me better.

what do you do when you cant get it to tune out perfect????  like i said the flight is straight with a little weak and occasional nock left with a real good release, but the nock high thing was killing me.  i even broke the serving i moved the nock so much.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: rastaman on February 01, 2009, 10:41:00 AM
How did it fly with the feathers on?
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: trapperDave on February 01, 2009, 10:52:00 AM
ignore the nock when bareshafting.  Go by where they group. my .02
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: A.S. on February 01, 2009, 10:52:00 AM
Try putting a nock set below your nock as well as above.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: Smallwood on February 01, 2009, 11:01:00 AM
I have found that being in a hurry, usually gets you results that aren't as good as they should be. slow down, stretch out your tuning sessions over a week or two, shooting for maybe 30 minutes at a time. This keeps the stress level down, and shooting the short sessions keeps your shooting while the muscles are still strong and not fatigued.
Please try using ol adcock's method of bare shaft planing instead of watching the arrow flight or watching which way the arrow is sticking out of the target butt.
i think ol's web site is  www.bowmaker.net (http://www.bowmaker.net)   or the same info is on a&h archery's site.

by taking things slow, and stretching it out over a period of time, you will be able to rule out the sessions where you just weren't shooting that good that day, or the wind was blowing a little more that day, etc.
hope this helps.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: O.L. Adcock on February 01, 2009, 11:08:00 AM
Fountain, "i can get them to fly straigh, but cant get the nock high out to save my life."

That's very common. I'll put it this way...Just because an arrow flies "straight" does not mean it's well tuned or vice versa. You want them to fly where they are "pointed" reguardless of the angle the shaft was trying to get there. You have discovered a method that doesn't work, try others till you find that does...O.L.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: mparks on February 01, 2009, 11:24:00 AM
I have the same situation with nock high.  Try this: get the bare shafts grouping with the fletched ones.  Then see if your broadheads group in the same place.  If so, mission accomplished IMO.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: O.L. Adcock on February 01, 2009, 11:33:00 AM
Mparks, Yes sir, that's the bottom line. I'd just add that they be wide broadheads and from as far away as you can keep field points on the target...O.L.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: ozy clint on February 01, 2009, 01:40:00 PM
hey O.L.- how then do you start the tuning process? do you immediately fletch a full length shaft and then try and get the bare one to group where the fletched one goes? i mean how do you establish that the fletched shaft is correct to use as a control so you can play with the variable, (bareshaft).  i'm confused. how do you tune if your not able to get consisent groups? (beginner).....hard to make an informed decision on what to do.
no doubt you've been over this a 100 times....sorry.

i too can not get rid of nock high bareshaft. but my arrow shoot well fletched.
fountain- i know how you feel  :banghead:
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: ozy clint on February 01, 2009, 01:48:00 PM
hang on O.L. a light bulb just came on. (a light bulb graemlin would be good right now) do you tune both fletched and bareshaft at the same time, changing a variable on each at the same time hoping that they group the together?
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: overbo on February 01, 2009, 02:20:00 PM
fountian,
Are you putting alot of pressure on your ring finger?That finger will be sore or start to develope a calus.If so try to put the pressure on your top 2 fingers and relaxing the 3rd before the release.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: Matty on February 01, 2009, 02:57:00 PM
Fountain, I bet we can help you more with this if you give us your set up. Bow weight Length Draw..etc.  You might be wasting your time with the shafts you are trying especially with 200 gr up front.
help us help you... unless i missed something here or anther post..
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: R H Clark on February 01, 2009, 03:12:00 PM
IMHO with some bows or some archers,you will never get rid of all the nock high.If your fletched shafts and bare shafts will group together at 20-30 yards,don't worry about it.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: sendero25 on February 01, 2009, 03:20:00 PM
I agree RH,
I have a 2007 Kodiak Mag that always shoots nock high (or I always make it shoot nock high), anyway, I put an elevated flipper on it and it shoots fine now.
As overbo said, I may be putting too much pressure on my ring finger with the short K-mag, or it was tillered for a plunger or elevated rest.
My longbows and Martin Serengeti haven't given me a nock high problem, and I shoot them off the shelf, but the K-mag drove me nuts for a couple of weeks.
John
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: Danny Roberts on February 01, 2009, 03:36:00 PM
Ignore bare shafting altogether.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: R H Clark on February 01, 2009, 05:13:00 PM
Danny
When most folks shot wood or aluminum and had a lot of experience shooting both at different draw lengths and poundage,they could pick an arrow that would probably be close enough.

I think bareshafting became much more important when trad archers started using carbon arrows.With most suppliers offering 3 spine ranges to cover everything from 35-90 lbs and trad archers not knowing even where to start it was just about the only way.

Now with suppliers offering a wider range of spine and sites where we can share experience it's a lot easier to get close to start.

All that matters is that a guy can get good arrow flight and hit what he is aiming at.The question then becomes,"what is good".I seen guys say they had good flight,that I wouldn't consider good.

The only way to know for sure is to bareshaft test.

Some of us may be happy with good enough,and some of us will always be trying for perfection.All that really matters is that we are happy with the results.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: fountain on February 01, 2009, 09:25:00 PM
yep--the ring finger is swollen and got a nice calous in it today!  my main trouble is my release.  i can shoot 25 time and get 25 different results.  i just cant get my release consistent and proper.  i am shooting with a clicker to get a consistent draw/anchor and try to pull through with bt, but just cant get the release down.
i shot the 35/55 a little more today and think i will give them a try.  they flew straigh and not much nock high at all.  gonna play with it a little more tomorrow
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: Shawn Leonard on February 01, 2009, 10:41:00 PM
If ya tell us your bow set up and how far ya draw, I bet we can get ya right on for the shaft ya need to shoot and the point weight. Shawn
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: O.L. Adcock on February 01, 2009, 11:09:00 PM
Ozy, "i mean how do you establish that the fletched shaft is correct to use as a control so you can play with the variable, (bareshaft). i'm confused. how do you tune if your not able to get consisent groups?"

Is there a distance you can keep all your fletched field tips on the bale? 20yds? 30? 40?...What ever distance that is shoot a mixture of fletched field tips and bare shafts...If your tuning isn't good your fletched shafts will be in the bale. You'll completely miss the bale with the bare shafts. Which direction they miss tells you what is wrong.  :)  Take two 2" cardboard disks and lay one over the other..That's what you want bare shafts and fletched shafts to do. Slide them apart...that's what you don't want. Take 2 18" disks..Can you tell if one is off set from the other? Sure you can. You don't have to shoot good groups to make your tuning a LOT better.  http://www.bowmaker.net/tuning.htm  ....O.L.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: ozy clint on February 02, 2009, 03:25:00 AM
gotcha.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: fountain on February 02, 2009, 11:56:00 AM
i am shooting a r/d longbow that is 66" (strung) drawing a measured 28"--using an arrow and clothes pin i measure 28" to back of nock.  the bow has 52@27 on it , but the previous owner shaved a little off i think.  i am currently shooting 2018 with 200 gr points and the arrow is 29.5 to von.  they shoot decent, but nock high.  i am going over to a full lenght 35/55 ) if i ever find any) with the same 200 gr point.  think that will work???
now--how in the world do i get a good, clean and consistent release every time.  i am also shooting a clicker.
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: mark land on February 03, 2009, 11:54:00 AM
I think alot of people have problems bare shaft tuning from either not starting out with the nock pt high enough and dealing with the contact with the shelf of the bow or inconsistent finger pressure on the string, both of these will give inconsistent results when shooting and can cause some frustration as you try to adjust for 1 or the other.  Make sure you are very high with your nock pt to start, normally around 1in and work your way down from there, and make sure you are getting even, consistent finger pressure on the string and make a good release.  Also, another point to consider, always bare shaft tune your bow by shooting the bow in a vertical position so you get a true side to side and up and down reading on the shaft leaving the bow. Bare shaft tuning is the best (IMHO) way to find the tune the perfect arrow for your bow.  Mark
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: crandog on February 03, 2009, 12:06:00 PM
I've always wondered when bareshafting, if a person underdraws a little if the arrow will act stiff because there are less pounds of bow acting on it?  Or will it act weak because it is effectivly longer?
Title: Re: bare shafting....ready to pull my hair out!
Post by: Plumber on February 03, 2009, 08:25:00 PM
IT may help to use dential floss if your going to move your knock location alot that way you dont tear up your serving. when you get things where you want then you can lock in with your brass.