wanted for Backpack hunting Colorado preferably Down,but tell me about synthetics needs to be light,compact,warm.
what do you guys use? what your opinions and what would you recommend?
Thanks Andy
Down is no good, once it gets wet you are out of luck. I have a Peak One mummy bag and it is great, lite wt and packable. I used during -20 in AK and never got cold.
down is great for winter use but like said when wet it will never dry, if you go with down you must pay absolute atention to dry packing and tent floor, the poly bags will still keep you warm when wet and you can actualy wear your wet socks to bed and they will be dry in the morning and so will your bag.
wingnut, sumed it up, are you willing to put your life on it? A good quality sleeping bag is worth the money and last you a lifetime (or till you grow out of it). Another good investment, even when using a tent, is a sleeping mat, get's you up off the floor and added insulation (good place for clothes and socks to be warm the next day, between the two). Can find a cheap one at army surplus.
I like Wiggy's bags. Used them in sub-zero conditions and when wet -- always stayed warm. And I agree with toddster -- get something like a Thermarest. Worth their weight in gold.
all of the "pro" backcountry elk hunters use the Marmot Helium 15 degree down bag. pack weight is a little over 1lb.
yip Closed cell foam mat is a must for me.
ok so down is not the way to go if it get wet (which is defiantly a likely possibility)
been looking at the Wiggy's bags they look good.
BIG AGNES.....LOST RANGER. CANT SAY ENOUGH ABOUT IT....
I 2nd the notion about WIGGY's bags.Best I have ever used and I have had down,hollowfill etc.
Let me know if you need tell #.
I have a Sherpa Gear bag, minus 40 rating, synthetic fill, mummy style. Not too heavy. You will get to see it at the Texas Sweat in a couple of weeks.
I'll go against the grain..I use to do a lot of back packing. Tried most of them at one time or an other. My vote goes to down for weight,packability and warmth. Don't let it get wet. Pretty simple.
I'm with rappstar and Mike--I would go with down, especially for your situation. I have a zero degree Marmot and its just fantastic.
But, regarding synthetics, the new Climashield insulation is supposed to the latest and greatest. TNF uses it in their Snowshoe and Cat's Meow, 0 and 20 degree bags, and I've recently seen the Cat's Meow on sale at REI for $99. I've owned one and known others who've owned them and have been happy with the fit and feel.
If money wasn't an issue and I had to have synthetic I would buy a Kifaru bag.
I have, and known others who've had Wiggy's bags, and they are also tried and proven.
If I knew I was going to flip my raft or spend a week in the rain in Alaska I would absolutely go with the synthetics. Otherwise I would go down and take the xtra precautions to keep it dry.
If you are in so deep that you cannot escape alive because your down sleeping bag got wet, then you just might want to work on your survival skills and not take gear that makes up for that lack.
Wingnut, I am sending you a PM....
I use a Northface cats meow with a compression sack. Very small less than 2lbs. It is rated to only 20 degrees but in Sept I don't have problems. I wear long underware if necessary. I love down and like they said don't get it wet. Look at Northface,Marmet and other top names. There is some great stuff out there. I have a Paul Petzel synthetic mummy bag for real cold weather, it's only 30yrs old but still a great bag. You get what you pay for
My vote is for the North Face Cat's Meow (only one I have used), won't break the bank, good to about 35-40 deg. for me, then I have to layer. Used it this past year in Colorado during elk season. Be sure to have some sort of pad to insulate you from the ground.
I live in Colorado and do a ton of back country hunting often for days. I use the marmot helium 15 degree bag it is down filled and is an awesome bag.
I highly recommend the Marmot Pinnacle. It's a 15 degree down bag and it is true to it's rating. I've spent a lot of time hunting CO highcountry in Sept and this is by far my favorite bag.
I'd definitely go with down. I own both down and synthetic bags and nothing beats down IMO.
North Face Cats Meow. I used this bag on a bivy hunt in Wyoming last fall and was very pleased with the performance.
I like the Big Agnes bags, but I don't like feather down for any location I'd backpack when things can get wet. For me, it's not worth the little amount of space and weight I'd save.
QuoteI have hunted above 10,000 feet in Colorado and it rained almost every day. Like Mike said, keep the bag dry...its not that difficult.
I did all my back packing in the high sierras, most of it was between 8000'-11000'. On one trip a buddy and I spent 35 days out. I had a down bag with me that time. Lots of summer thunder storms in the sierras. I covered my bag with a plastic trash bag and then into it's stuff sack(which was treated with rain proof)I can't recall my bag ever getting wet. I think your tent is much more important than your bag. That's where I didn't care about carrying a little extra weight. I always used a 4 season 4 person tent even it was just me. I like the extra room for when you are stuck in the tent all day due to the weather and the extra room for your gear and to cook.
And I agree with the comments about a ground pad. Get a good closed cell foam pad.
Don't forget to take lots of mountain money with ya.
:D
ok mike whats mountain money?
im thinking i might go with synthetic because i will be using a tarp/ hootchie rather than a tent
Mountain money? Never heard that term, but I figure it's either toilet paper or whiskey!
(Not interchangeable. :goldtooth:
When i first joined the army (way back when), we were issued down bags. They were totally unreliable cause they were always getting wet. Even in our mild UK climate i've seen fit and healthy men come down with hypothermia and that isn't a good place to find yourself. Later on the army decided to issue us with new, singing and dancing, synthetic bags and those bags got me hooked on synthetic bags for life. I'll never go back to down. Having a synthetic bag is just one less thing to be worrying about. IMHO.
I would rather avoid synthetics where possible, but i've yet to find anything i like better, or is more reliable, in a sleeping bag. And i really do like a reliable sleeping bag.
Check out Wiggy's bags. Super bags at a great price.
Quoteok mike whats mountain money?
;)
QuoteMountain money? Never heard that term, but I figure it's either toilet paper or whiskey!
We have a winner!...Yep toilet paper.
When back packing the order of importance is:
1. Shelter/warmth
2. Food
3. Toilet Paper
You would be surprised what folks will trade or give up for toilet paper when they run out.
The time I went out for a month we took a donkey and loaded it with beer and other heavy stuff you wouldn't normally even think about taking. We took very little food. We took one of those break down survival 22's,slingshots and fishing poles and tried to live off the land as much as possible. We had to break a few game laws doing it but it was one of the best times of my life.
We did have a friend meet us at a pass about 20 days in to bring more supply's(beer)
:D
Hmmm. Down is fine, but synthetic is good too.
A good down bag used to cost FAR more than a good synthetic. Today its not so bad, but still they are more expensive, what you get is lighter weight and packability.
I feel the packability is a non-issue as i cannot carry my backpack if i fill it completely.. Weight however,
-will you walk or camp?
-what night temperatures do you expect?
Ive spent 100s (sometimes 100 a year) nights in sleeping bags. Mostly in synthetic, and mostly between -10 and 10 deg C.
- Sleeping bags are NEVER as warm as the producer claims.
- freezing at night sucks, big time
- Sometimes they DO get wet
- Down really shines when DAMN cold, as in the arctic
- too warm a bag is bad too, but not as bad as too cold
- do not dress up inside, wool underwear is fine if cold, not more
- a silk liner (that you can wash after every trip) will make the bag last
- be sure it has a hood
- if cold sleep with a wool cap on your head
- a thick closed cell mat under, always, branches and stuff under that will help
- you will not regret carrying a tent, bigger is better, unless very cold, and , will you walk or camp?
http://www.helsport.no/helsport/producthandler.aspx?t=ringstind&containerid=23041&parentid=23032&entrypage=true&guid=1&lnodeid=5&pageid=5004
Ive had several Ajungilak sleeping bags and swear by them, but there are many good brands. The Swiss brands are usually good for such equipment too. I dont know US brands (but the US stuff sold in Europe is often crap. sorry )
http://www.nanok.no/Engelsk/index.html
http://www.mammut.ch/en/products_sleepingsystems.html?cid=292177
In Europe there is a test standard for bags, some US bags may be marked by that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EN_13537
QuoteEven in our mild UK climate i've seen fit and healthy men
UK may be mild but it is f.. wet and damp, i much prefer cold weather to wet weather.
K
I have an old, 1985 REI down that has been used countless trips. Was a great price and finally the down has been worn. Light enough to hike down the canyon(Grand). I been using a Moonstone Delt Maxima (0-18) at 3.10 lbs. I use this one when there is alot of moisture, polarguard. The Tangerine Dream is a super bag. There are so many new companies out there now. Just read in the Backbacker Magazine their yearly equipment guide their choices. That is a good start, they really test the goodies.
Mountain Hardwears Banshee SL o degree bag is a good choice. Weighs 3lb.6oz. 800 fill down with a waterproof shell.Used one in the Idaho backcountry this past fall and loved it.
Anyone else use bed rolls? I do and like them far better then sleeping bags. They are not light when you add a wool blanket but they sure are a lot more comfortable. IMHO you can't beat them for three season camping.
If you are hunting in an arid or semi-arid location, like Colorado, go with down. Just do not get it wet. On that note the Marmot Element Bags, the Mountain Hardware Phantom bags or the Western Mountaineering or Feathered Friends bags are as light and compressible as anything you will find but they are expensive. Those bags use really high-end down and fabrics and will be over a pound lighter than similar rated down bags and a pound and some change lighter than synthetic bags. I only use down so I can't really speak for the synthetic bags but their are a bunch of good ones out there from Marmot, TNF, Mountain Hardware and Sierra Designs.
Riot
Marmot Helium combined with a Kifaru bivy. Total weight 1.8 lbs. Easily fits in a daypack with essentials for a 3 day stay.
Ditto on the wiggys. Used mine on a 12 day Alaska trip and many times in other cold places. It kept me warm and dry!!!!!
Andy,
$$$ you want to spend is first question? Good down is expensive $400.00 to $900.00. Look for down bags with high loft - this is thickness of bag once laid out. You want 8"+. Down is by far best there is for weight to warmth ratio. If you are carrying it, go down if you can. Small lightweight tent is better than tarp by far and should be strongly considered for high mountain use. Wind can be ferocious and tarp will not suffice if extreme conditions arise. Consider a North Face Mountain 25 tent (not the VE25- more$$). Light, winter rated and has a tub floor with no seems in floor. Then I would invest in a good gore tex bivy sac for bag. This will prevent down from getting wet and can be used alone to sleep in on those OK nights when you want to sleep under stars. Many of the names mentioned make good high quality down bags, North Face, Marmot,Sierra Designs, Mountain Hardware. Watch the ratings, most are BS at best. I have a down bag rated for -48F it's good to about -25F (Commando style)anything colder you need to start wearing layers.
I've done a fair amount of backpacking and camping, whatever sleeping bag ya wind up with if your camping in cold weather get a G.I. Wool Sleeping Bag Liner and use two mats, a closed cell foam mat and put a Thermacell on top of that, and don't sleep in the clothes you wore all day change into fresh thermals for sleep and pack the clothes your wearing the next day into the bottom of your bag so there warm when you get into them the next morning.
Just my 2cents.
Gene
I have backpacked since the late 1960's and have done a lot of backpack bowhunting in the East where it rained al the time.I have always used down bags and have never slept in a wet one.There are some great synthetic bags these days and I'm not knocking them.Even with all the new,space age synthetics,down still compresses smaller and is warmer per ounce carried.There are water proof stuff bags to keep you bag dry while packing and it should be in the tent the rest of the time.I don't intend to sleep in a wet bag period- synthetic or down.I hear that argument all the time against down,usually by people who haven't used it.It just makes sense to keep your bag dry-synthetic or down.Definitely pick a mummy bag with hood.A very slim one will be lighter but these days they don't work for me.My current bag is a Western Mountaineering Kodiak.I think it is rated at about 0 degrees and weighs about 3 #.Take the time to crawl in the bag at a store before you buy.Next,I always insist on a bag with a full length zipper.Many bags have a half zipper and this saves a few ounces but a full length zipper is far more versatile in a wider range of temperatures.When it gets too warm,it is important to be able to open the bag full length so you don't roast.The full length zipper is worth carrying a couple extra ounces.I used to use a Therma Rest foam pad but have switched to a Big Agnes insulated air mattress.I forget what these are called but they blow up like an air mattress but have Permaloft insulation.The best of both worlds.They are about 2 1/2" thick vs the 1-1 1/2" foam pads.I sleep better on it.You decide whether you want synthetic or down but insist on a full length zipper.Keep in mind,while hunting,you carry considerably more gear than the average backpacker.That's why I like the weight savings of down.I don't think you can go wrong with either though as long as you chose a quality company.REI's website is a good place to compare types and brands.They give advice on choosing the right equipment plus there are customer ratings of different models.I find that very important.I want to hear from the guy's using it,not just the guy selling it.For extended trips I always liked a light 2 man tent as it had plenty of room for my pack and bow when the weather was bad.You can go lighter and more spartan with a bivvy sack or light weight 1 man tent and use garbage bags to keep gear dry outside the shelter.Sometimes bugs are a problem in the high country,in which case a light tent with netting might be a better option than a lighter tarp type shelter.
If price isn't an issue try the military 3 bag system. It has a gore-tex cover, (woodland camo) a green patrol bag and a thicker black bag that goes in the green patrol bag. You can use them all snapped together, or as single units. If it is warm, but damp, I use the gore-tex bivy cover alone.
If interested try U.S Cavalry online. It is a military and police supply company that sells to civilians as well.
I think the bags are around $479.00
John
I've got a Kelty light-stalker rectangle bag, down filled +5 and it weighs in at 2 pounds and 12 oz. or so. Very light, comfortable and tons of room for bigger guys especially in the legs. Good if you get claustrophobia in a tight mummy bag. A gortex bivy over the bag will make sure that you are dry.
Idabow
Good to hear you're planning a backpack trip, Andy! It's a ton of fun!
As far as sleeping bags go, much will depend on what you can spend and whether you'll be carrying camp on your back the whole time(bivouc style) or setting up a more permanent camp you come back to each night.
I have found weight to be an extremely big factor when the pack is on your back all day. Every ounce and all the space in your pack is of great importance and makes a difference with maneuverability and enjoyment of the hunt. The more area you can cover the better chance you'll have of seeing game.
I prefer the down bags for their light weight compared to their cooresponding temp rating, and their packability. Many of the stuff sacks are waterproof(or you can buy a waterproof one). Down bags are expensive, but worth it in my opinion.
I read that to reduce pack weight by one pound you're going to need to spend about $100 extra. That's about right. I'll tell you what, a good nights sleep is worth an aweful lot on extended trips.
I have used closed cell foam pads and thermarest pads. Not really impressed with either to be honest.
Hey JimB- How has the Big Agnes mattress held up for you? How heavy is it?
Matt
PS- a .45 ACP by my side helps me sleep better also! :D
synthetics are much better these days... I use them mostly these days...
I am a plus one on Marmot Bags..
But if you want a really good down bag
(fill wt- 550-800 or so) higher is better quality down...
These are the guys http://www.featheredfriends.com/
Good Luck
Oh BTW
I wore out a North Face cats meow, I was shopping for a new bag at the local outdoor store and they said I should return it to North Face... My old Hollofil bag was replaced free of charge with the latest version which weighed a lb less and worked so much better!!! SO that $60 bag I bought around 1991 is still working great for me today!!!
Hey JimB- How has the Big Agnes mattress held up for you? How heavy is it?
Matt
Matt,I have only got to use it a couple times.Mine is the Big Agnes insulated air core mummy pad,regular and weighs 21 oz. and has an R value of 4.1,rated to 15F.I read a lot of good reviews of it and I also really like it.
Lots and Lots of very good info guys! Thank you
lots of options lots to think about,
i was hoping to use a Very light tarp which i have used all over South Africa, Australia and England but im thinking it may not be a good idea using it here in the mountains, not worth it for the risk.
i would like to be able to carry my camp on my back and hunt but i dont want it in the way of my hunting/comfort. im thinking maybe setting up a small camp and hunting out of it for a few days then moving it, and repeating the process will be a better option.
thanks again for all the info ill look into all the options.
Andy
This is my most recent tent.I bought it a couple or three years ago.It is the MSR Zoid 1.Complete,it weighs about 3 1/2 lbs.the kicker is,it has a second option that is referred to as "Fast and Light Pitch".With this option,you leave the main tent body home.The rainfly(the tan part)is set up using the same poles and stakes and the footprint,is your shelter floor.This makes the same size and shape shelter but half the weight.With this option,you don't have the mosquito netting and there is some air space around ground level,where wind can come through.Your tarp shelter may work for you.It would be a good idea to take some short,"shake down" trips during the Summer when weather is less severe and you will get an idea of what you need before you are comitted on a longer,more serious trip.Keep in mind,that a shelter that you can close up to cut the wind,will make your sleeping bag feel 10 degrees warmer,than if you are more exposed to the wind.Check out www.rei.com (http://www.rei.com) there are a lot of options.They have a category for ultralight tents etc..I haven't done much shopping the past 2 years.New stuff is coming out all the time.It is a good place to compare weights and other specs plus the reviews from people using the stuff is invaluable. (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/ElkWallows018.jpg)
I have a cabelas summit -20 magnum i can say i`ve never been cold in it. Great bag for the $$
The tarp method works great in the early season, basically till the end of September. That is how I have done it for years. You just have to watch the weather before you go and if it does start raining at night I just roll up in it. As far as bags, I have 2, one is 25 degree and one is 10. You really want to try out quiet a few to make sure they fit you well, there is alot of difference from one to the other.
I'm looking at a Western Mountaineering bag. Westernmountaineering.com I'm lookin at the Badger GWS 15 degree mummy.
For a down bag Western Mountaineering hands down but see your banker first. Made in the USA highest down fill going 850. Check out their web site. There is no industry standard for establishing temp. rating on bags. This info I got last year from a long time REI employee and REI doesn't handle Western Mountaineering. I ended up with a North Face with the Climashield due to the moisture issues here in Oregon. The REI guy told me the current synthetic bags were only rated for 150 nights sleep for 8 hours before they started to breakdown, High quality down bag are rated for over twice that which helps when comparing price. Cold and dry down. Cold and damp synthetic.
For damp and not so very cold, I much prefer two or good woolen blankets, a set of long johns and a warm cap to sleep in. Throw your coat over your hips and you may be good to 20 degrees or so.
I always feel constricted in a sleeping bag and it can get clammy inside.
Woolen blankets have served well for centuries, and still can. - lbg
Go with a Wiggy's bag. Don't waste your cash on anything else..
I said earlier,I have the Western Mountaineering Kodiak and I love it.I chose it because it was a little roomier than the slim mummy I used years ago.I also liked the fact that Western Mountaineering has quite a few models with full length zipers and I consider this a must.It weighs 2 lbs 12 oz.It is a little warm for summer use and might even be more than is needed for Sept.I have been planning on getting a slightly lighter bag and the Versalite looks awfully nice.10F rating and weighs 2 lbs.Slightly less girth than the Kodiak but still not bad.Price is $410 for the 6' model.It might sound high but considering what we pay for bows and other equipment,probably not bad for a piece of equipment that could make or break a trip.The last things I want to scimp on are s.bag,mattress,tent and boots.http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=Products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=ExtremeLite%20Series&viewpost=2&ContentId=20
This might be a tad hard to track down, but well worth the search.
There's a brand of sleeping bags called "Wiggies". They supply the bags stuffed in jet ejection seats. Can be vacuum sealed, washed, etc. and it never looses loft or insulation value. The insulation is one piece, so it doesn't bunch like feathers do, it has one mean zipper AND the guy who makes them gaurantees the bag FOR LIFE, regardless of whether or not you are the original owner. I have had mine for 15 years (and I'VE USED THE HECK OUT OF IT).
Actually, when I bought mine 15 years ago it was REALLY HARD TO FIND. Now it's a click away... technology!
http://www.wiggys.com/
There ya go!
Wiggy's for me. In extreme cold, down traps the moisture from your body and when it freezes in the down there goes the loft.
I bought the -20 bag about ten years ago..Many winter campouts in the Catskills in open front leanto. There nothing better. If anything check the web site...
You can go with a pretty good bag and get away with it comfortably if you get a good bivy sack. I have spent many tentless nights with that combo.
Hi Andy,
Lots of great info on here.
Here's the bag I used in Colorado last Sept.
Gelert x-treme lite 1000.
comfort +1.0 - +5.9
Extreme rating -14.3 C
1 kg
Was quite impressed with it, not sure how cold it got but there was a heavy frost every morning and was comfortable.
I took a light bivvi bag to use in the event I decided to spike out under a tarp but did'nt get round to it.
http://www.gelert.com/products/X-treme_Lite_1000.aspx
And under £40
Tradtusker. If you're going to be bow hunting in Colorado, that means September, and quite frankly, it's usually dry and quite warm, sometimes very warm in September, even in the mountains. You might have a couple days out of the month with some cold temperatures and rain or snow. A bag rated for 20 degrees will be plenty. Go with one rated for 0 degrees if you're cautious. I've been backpack hunting for about 30 years now and have used down bags the entire time. Can't say as I ever got one wet, including two weeks of solid rain in Alaska. Folks have already given good advice re how to keep a bag dry. Given where you'll be hunting, the time of year, and a modicum of woodmanship skills, a wet bag is a non issue. Happy hunting.
QuoteOriginally posted by Wolfkiss:
Hi Andy,
Lots of great info on here.
Here's the bag I used in Colorado last Sept.
Gelert x-treme lite 1000.
comfort +1.0 - +5.9
Extreme rating -14.3 C
1 kg
Was quite impressed with it, not sure how cold it got but there was a heavy frost every morning and was comfortable.
I took a light bivvi bag to use in the event I decided to spike out under a tarp but did'nt get round to it.
http://www.gelert.com/products/X-treme_Lite_1000.aspx
And under £40
I have an X-treme Lite 800, they're well good little bags.
thanks guys
Another vote for Western Mountaineering, made in the USA. Supposedly today's down bags have more water resistant shells than before, but I still wouldn't take one sea kayaking in SE AK; Rocky mountains or the Sierras OK.
Wiggy's