In thinking that the latest releases in broadheads are getting incredulously pricey?
It all started with Silver Flames. I researched those and both import duties and the amount of precision work that goes into them are both heavily responsible for the price of these excellent broadheads. Now we have all the extremely heavy single bevel, tanto tipped, two blades and the 300 Xtreme 3 blade. All over $60 for a 3 pack. I mean I know they are all well made and are the result of extensive research and in my own opinion quite simply the cat's pajamas; but it just seems incredible to me that it's now possible for each arrow in your quiver to be worth about $100 so you quiver and arrows can now cost as much or nearly so as your bow. Whoa be it unto he that loses one of these projectiles. It would seem that luminocks are now required just to insure arrow retrival after a shot in the field. This is just a Winter's day pondering question meant to start a civil conversation and some rumnations. I was just a little stunned to realize this after getting an e-mail from the biggest Traditional Archery Catalogue about new items.
What do you folks thinks?
Well, I really don't know what to think, other than the market will bear, what the market will bear. I have to budget fairly closely in the winter season to make sure the house stays warm, the mortgage gets paid, and I can afford some few select victuals that I dearly love. Yet I do appreciate the fact that someone has the drive to create a $30.00 broadhead, and I will be extremely impressed to see it sell enough to allow for its continued existance.
Now, since I don't intend to go on any expensive hunts for exotic game that would require the use of such a projectile point, it would be silly of me to borrow from the bank to procure said items.
I am a simple hunter of game indigenous to the area in which I abide. Pennsylvania. No two-thousand pound buffalo here.
Yet I hold no condemnation for the guy who yearns for a Purdy shotgun or Bentley automobile, nor do I have any contempt for those who bandy about the Rift in search of large and dangerous game. I fear I would not make them a good companion anyway since I am a curmudgeonous hillbilly at best.
Now.....what was the question?
Nope. I'm sure they're awesome heads but like George said, I'm not huntin buffalo so it's kind of relative I guess.
Ethan
I agree with you I think that these broadheads are very well made and with the time and material put into making them may be worth every penny. And for some game some may believe they are necessary BUT I cant afford to pay 25 to 30 each for broadheads and see no need to when my old zwickeys and magnus keep killing things when I do my part.
I DONT THINK YOU ARE ALONE.I GOT CAUGHT UPIN THE BROADHEAD TEST RESULTS.BUT I COULD NOT GET THEM SHARP.I AM STICKING TO MY WENSEL WOODSMANS AND ACE STANDARDS.I CAN KEEP THOSE SHARP.AND THEY DONT BREAK THE BANK TO LOOSE ONE.THEY STILL OPEN NICE HOLES AND GOOD BLOOD TRAILS.I GUESS ITS ALL IN WHAT YOU WANT TO SPEND AND WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU...
I wear my combat boots to work, running shoes running, and dress shoes with my suits. Use what is required for the job. Special hunts are worth the extra buck on equipment.
Nevermind the popular "green" movement... I enjoy re-using (refinishing) equipment of the past and make most of my hunting needs.
Fifteen years from now if those blades are still around, I'll by them from someone for hopefully 1/4 the price and sharpen them up for my deer hunt since I can't find a buffalo in this desert of mine.
With absolutely no offense to any of the businessmen that freequent this site, business is...well business. You come up with a product, charge what you think will be paid for it, and hope to make a profit.
Animals have been falling to broadheads since they were stone. I dont need to pay 30 bucks a head to think I can kill an animal quickly.
It comes down to not what they are charging, but what you are willing to pay. Will a 30 dollar newly designed head kill any better than the 20 year old designs? I think it is all up to the individual hunter.
I might like to have one just for my arrow collection but will wait like WC to get one from someone else. Last month I saw a Kore Duryee arrow (complete w/ bear razorhead) go on E*@Y for $15.50!! I cannot see spending $30.00 on a new BH. But to each their own.
I'm sure all of the heads you mentioned are fine heads. However this is precisely the reason we introduced a 300 grain 2 blade, single bevel, tanto tipped broadhead this year at $14.99 per 3.
Our goal was to present an affordable yet quality alternative at a price anyone can afford.
Sponsor\\'s Classifieds Link - Details (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=48;t=000682)
Tusker Broadheads at Braveheart Archery (http://www.braveheartarchery.us/new_page_2.htm)
We are pleased to announce we will have a second 300 grain head coming soon at the same price. :thumbsup:
I agree with George ,if you can afford them and want them Great , but there are many options for everyone that will continue to work many snuffers woodamans and zwickeys have killed anything that walkes or flyes Just do your part shoot a heavy enough arrow put it where it counts and the game wont know the diffrence what brand killed it :thumbsup: :archer:
Tusker always has great broadheads that won't break the bank.
I fully support the research and development of such broadheads. Most things are on a continuum however. It's all up to each individual at what point they want to stop whether it be how much technology they will allow to touch a bow or how much money they are willing to spend. If at such point I can afford to hunt cape buffalo, I will revisit such research but I hunt beside guys who are killing the same animal species I am with selfbows and stone points. I'd need to see incontrovertible (or at least strong) evidence where all the variables were controlled for, that proved that a significant percentage more animals were wounded instead of killed by not using the latest broadhead, before I would spend the money. I weep already when I lose a field point! :biglaugh:
I am so with curveman.
I think that your ability to keep whatever broadhead you are using SHARP is most most most important. If your shooting a really great new style broadhead that works perfectly when sharp-- but YOU cannot sharpen them... then your better off with what you can sharpen: and shoot straight.
That would be delta zwickeys for me :archer:
I agree with much of what has been written above. That being said, I'll bet that there are still a shocking number of guys that will pay the price. If we hadn't paid it in the past, prices wouldn't be where they are now. What do ya think?
I do believe their purchase is 100% optional.
Therefore I cannot fathom the reason that anyone choosing not too purchas could care less what they cost.
JMO
Steve
It's merely an option like everything we use. Some will only buy a $100 old used Bear bow and some will insist on buying the $1000+ bows but bottom line is that both bows will kill any animal on the planet and it is our own personal choice. Same with broadheads. :)
I think it's all great. Doc Ashby certainly added a new dimension to the way I look at broadheads. There are guys (maybe gals too!) out there doing all sorts of different things today. Some computer/machinists are making any shape EDM heads that cost wise would be in the hundreds if you had to get your hands on an EDM machine. Even my hand forged heads would be as expensive as a forged knife with the amount of time I take to make 'em (not that I'd ever try to sell 'em :)
Whatever makes you happy and you fell confident in using is the way to go. But my hat's off to those that are pushing the envelope of something new & different. It's just plan fun to experiment...Doc
I think it is great that we have entrepreneurs that have time and money to research and develop these products for us. We are lucky to have these people. Now as far as cost goes there is little to argue about. High quality goes to say that they will last longer and therefore you should require less of them. For example the Silver Flame, I bought 9 of them when they came out 3-4 years ago. I still have eight! One was damaged on a trophy rock all others have been sharpened 20 times over and killed lots. Another example the 300Xtreme which I have six of at present. I killed five critters with just one of the 300xtremes. Kill stuff - resharpen - kill more stuff! Now with cheaper heads I'd have had to buy three or four more packs due to damage etc. So, I don't think there is much of an argument for high cost. If it's a quality product it will stand up to time.
That 300 Xtreme is a huge improvement in the three blade world and I think, well worth the money. Not so impressed by the more expensive two blade models simply because the Grizzly is so good at doing the same thing. I like seeing new heads as long as the old ones stick around.
There is a "letter from the boss" circulating on the net about the risks taken to build a biz and how biz owners are being squeezed.
Brings in focus what some above said, there is a tremendous investment in R&D, then mfg set up, all on the premise that the product will sell to design, find mfgs and then build/market these heads. And there are outfits overseas that are not impeded by patent laws who then knock off these quality items and sell low quality mimics.
He who risks much, must recoup. I'll never buy those pricey heads, but I would if I could! :)Just to have "the best".
Why the penchant for "the best"? Cause every sad tale I've ever heard in my life seems to have a couple "if only" in it. I prefer to not have an AVOIDALBE "if only" in my gear when trying to kill a critter...just me.
I can't afford the price restrictive heads, so I keep working on learning all I can about how to sharpen better what heads I can afford, and how to milk every bit of energy outa my arrow/bow set up... to avoid as many of the "if only" scenarios as possible.
But I still think it's so very cool that folks will push to figure out how to build a better mouse trap, invest, risk, and market improved products for those who can and will support their efforts.
...even when the $.89 cent mouse trap of my grandpa's day still kills mice dead! :)
Good responses from all.
I own one 300 xtreme broadhead and 3 Ashby broadheads. I can't afford a quiver full of any of the high dollar points, but thought I could afford a few of them. I would like to own a Silver Flame some day.
Anything that I have killed, I have killed with a Woodsman. I still wanted a few of these new broadheads.
I am heart broken when ever I loose or break an arrow. Be it footed shaft or nutter, field point or broadhead.
I went with the two types that I did because the 300 x is so much like the Woodsman and the Ashbys are so much like the Grizzly. I bought them because they are easier for the inexperienced to get and keep sharp. I feel like I owe that to the animals I shoot at. And I bought them because they help with the Extreme Front of Center set up that I now use.
I have asked every chance I get for lessons on sharpening a broadhead. Until someone can sit down with me and walk me through sharpening a Grizzly I don't think I will ever get it.
When I ask for help. They take the broadhead, take the file and say, "You do it like this". That teaches me nothing.
I've tried the suggestions on this forum. I still can't sharpen a Grizzly to my standards.
The Woodsman is the only broadhead that I have been able to get even close to my standard of "sharp". Until now.
Since the arrow is the most important part of the bowhunting set up, I have no qualms about buying the more expensive heads, and intend to do so, though I may not buy as many as I would less expensive heads. I've been killing stuff for more than 40 years with heads like Bears, Zwickeys, Magnus and more recently STOS. There's no doubt they work fine. But I also think that Ed Ashby's research has shown that heavier, single bevel heads will usually give better penetration on marginal (read that bone) hits. No one wants to make those kind of hits, of course, but they happen.
Having been in manufacturing my whole life, I can say with certainty that a good job takes time and time is money.
A handmade head is gonna be more expensive than a production head. A hand sharpened head, like a Silverflame, same deal.
I can tell you this; The reason the Woodsman broadhead has changed hands 3 times in it's short life is because the profit margin is so low, it will take 10 years to get any type of ROI.
When we 1st made the head (2XL Productions) we were making about $2 per 6 pack on a $30k investment. You do the math.
Sorry George, I didn't mean to startle you by saying $30 thousand dollars all at once....
Biggie - :D
Steve
Interesting thread and good comments by all. As I sit at my laptop using software that Bill Gates made millions developing, I have to be thankful that we live in the USA and that free enterprise exists and enables individual people to research and develop products from which we all benefit. I have a land surveying business and use GPS survey equipment that costs about $50K per outfit. I feel I need it in order to compete. If someone sometime had not spent countless hours and thousands or millions of dollars developing the equipment I would still be squinting through the scope of a total station or even a non-electric transit. Of course archery is "just" a hobby for me (well, that's what I tell myself), so I don't feel the need to keep up with the state of the art equipment. In fact simplicity rules in my archery world. I don't even shoot a recurve because I can't string it without a stringer, whereas I can my HH longbow. I like grizzly broadheads and will continue to shoot them; but believe me, if I was hunting something that I thought required just a little extra edge, I'm sure I would spring for a few of the $30 broadheads. After all, I spent over $200 on a wet/grindstone for no other reason than to be able to change the angle on the Grizzly bh's. Technology definitely has its place and we all pick and choose as to how much technology we opt to use in our lives.
I tried to make it clear in my initial post that I fully feel the heads are, for the most part, worth the money. I am floored that Tusker now makes a 300 grain, single bevel, tanto tipped 2 blade for such a fantastic price. I have shot Tuskers and they are indeed tough, well made heads. I am very much sold on extremely heavy heads and front loaded arrows. I hunted this year with over 400 grains up front and that took a heavy broadhead, a heavy adapter, and weights on a heavy adapter. So I may well have been pushing $10 an arrow for that weight and the broadheads I wanted to use, Snuffers, STOS, and Wensel Woodsmans. All got full penetration on a wet Chicago phonebook and the 1/4 inch plywood it was framed in from a mid 60's draw weight bow. I'm agree with what you have all said, at least I can see you points(pun intended).
What do you all recon a well made, artful, handcrafted arrow of stick and stone would fetch? Especially if said arrow was crafted by someone well connected to the type of art scene that would pay unbelievable money for such things as paint randomly splattered on canvas? Especially if the artist were capable of sustaining at least the illusion of living a native, agrarian lifestyle requiring intimate knowledge of the uses of stick and stone?
I have a feeling the answer to that question would be ooooodles more cash than the purveyor of the $30 broadhead, at a fraction of the productivity. I sincerely believe that such artists exist right here on this site, and that it's all simply a matter of marketing. If you pollish a turd and speak highly of it enough, someone will believe you and offer you good money for it.
I think the real situation is that super custom premium ultra special broad heads are getting more attention than they deserve.
If people want to pay for best imaginable broad head for their hunts fine.
But I think writers and editors do the community a disservice when they focus on them.
Maybe you need these water buffalo and grizzlies.
You dont for deer, elf, boars and most big game.
I don't know Dartwick, them elves can be pretty thick skinned! :knothead:
They are worth what "someone" will pay.... Exactly like a Morrison or Black Widow that is pushing $1300.00 plus.
I'm happy with a 6pk of Zwickey's for $18.00.. They get crazy sharp and alway work correctly when I do my part.
2-Big brings up a good point. Why do we pay 5 X's the money for a bow when an old Bear or Pearson will do the same job? I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. That being said, after reading Dr. Ashby's reports on different head designs I'm probably going to start using a single bevel tanto point heavy head. I'd just perfer to spend alot less for a Grizzly.
I can remember when I paid 25 cents for a gallon of gas..Last summer I paid 5.00 plus. If you had told me 20 years ago I would be paying 100 + dollars for shoes I would have said your NUTS.
Aren't all things relative ?
On the bright side not many BHs are being made in China and that money stays here.
I pay the price for good boots.......
I think I will stick to my old Bear razorhead... heck it is alot cheaper when I miss. If I used one of the expensive ones I would never leave the woods looking for it 8^)
Well shooting wooden arrows is getting expensive too, tapered cedar shafts 46.00 per dz + shipping...PR
I am a little bit different then most when reading this post. I have a 400 dollar bow, arrows that are aluminum that I fletched myself. I make my own strings, target, tabs, and so on. I cheep as much as I can whenever I can.
The only piece of equipment that I will not cheep on is the broad head. I have spent for the expensive heads and will continue to do so as long as there is no other offering with the same criteria for less money.
I believe that you owe it to the animal to shoot the most lethal type of head known. So far to date with everything I have read and experienced what I purchased is the ultimate in heads. I believe that these heads are not just for Safari. You can not possibly have too much penetration for any animal. The arrow is not like a bullet. You wont damage meet with overkill. Overkill is exactly what I do want from my heads.
I believe that you should spend the most amount of money you can afford on your broad head. I realize that not all can afford the same. I am saying that as far as a penetration goes it should be your number one priority of your equipment and your dollar allocation should reflect this. (Let it be know that shooting well and penetration go hand and hand. I you miss there will be no penetration.)
There are arrow heads costing well over $50 each. I really dont owe that to a 200lb deer than can be killed just fine with a Grizzly or my old Zwickys for a fraction of the cost.
You really can pay too much.