considering a fit person.
i'm just dreaming about marco polo and ibex. :bigsmyl:
I don't know, but would love to find out!! :goldtooth:
I think you can become aclimated to altitude in a few hours or maybe a day. I'm a flatlander so a little altitude can get to me.
I got off of a bus this year out west and we were at 8,000 ft and it hit me like a ton of bricks. Funny lightheaded feeling in the head, weakness in the legs, couldn't take very deep breaths.
In a day I was fine and eventually went to 13,000-14,000 ft with no problems.
This is not tied to a scientific study but based upon my observations it can happen at about 4000 feet above the elevation where you normally live and function. -That differential is usually easily acclimated to in a day. As you add more you need more time to acclimate.
I think tree man is right, I live at about 2500 ft and I can tell it when I am at about 7000 and above...
Heck you guys are talking about thin air a altitude. Altitude sickness is a whole different thing and can lead to some nasty stuff. I had a partner on a high desert (11,000 ft) hunt come down with it and we had to get him down.
Here is some info:
Altitude sickness, also known as acute mountain sickness (AMS), altitude illness, or soroche, is a pathological condition that is caused by acute exposure to low air pressure (usually outdoors at high altitudes). It commonly occurs above 2,400 metres (approximately 8,000 feet).[1][2] Acute mountain sickness can progress to high altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE) or high altitude cerebral edema (HACE).[1][3]
The cause of altitude sickness is still not understood.[1][4] It occurs in low atmospheric pressure conditions but not necessarily in low oxygen conditions at sea level pressure. Although treatable to some extent by the administration of oxygen, most of the symptoms do not appear to be caused by low oxygen, but rather by the low CO2 levels causing a rise in blood pH, alkalosis. The percentage of oxygen in air remains essentially constant with altitude at 21% up until 70,000 feet (21,330 metres) but the air pressure (and therefore the number of oxygen molecules) drops as altitude increases - consequently, the available amount of oxygen to sustain mental and physical alertness decreases above 10,000 feet (3,050 metres)
Tree man hit pretty close to my experience too. When we went skiing in Colorado we always spent the first day sightseeing and were fine after that. We were going from around 900' elevation at home to 9600' at Breckenridge.
Dennis
http://www.wildsheep.org/pdf/high_altitude.pdf
rolaids helps - seriously
It can also be different on different excursions! Case in point. I made it to 12,000 once for a day and had no trouble. Next time, I couldn't get above 10,000 without BP spike, excruciating headache and a strong desire to lay down and die!
Dan
It depends on the person as well. But it's weird because it might not effect you for the first 5 trips but then it might on the 6th trip, or might not.
There is an excellent reference book called Medicine for Mountaineers. Call your library.
Clint,
Mike has all the correct info posted for you. It is not predictable who it will effect. On many an expedition the fittest fall to AMS. I have friends that have trained beyond most peoples imagination and have fallen with AMS. Now here is one for you. A good friend of mine at age 70 decided to hunt blue sheep in China. Instead of taking the helicopter to base camp 17,000 FT. He elected to walk it. An extra 10 day hike but he wanted to experience the area and new that the climatization would do him the world of good. When he gets to start of trek guides tell him to throw out all altitude drugs Dr. gave him and do as they do. So, he took their advice, they had oatmeal with a bulb of garlic in it for breakfast. Soup with bulb of garlic in it for lunch and yes another bulb of garlic with dinner! My friend says he never had any issues period and hunted at 17,000 to 18,000 ft for four days. The garlic thins the blood and helps to greatly reduce the effects of AMS. Wouldn't plan on the wife being to affectionate on night of your return but otherwise it works.
Hunted the past fours years out of Gunnison Co. up around Crested Butte to 11,000 feet. Four hunting buddies and I packed in with five horses. My close friend and I walked up the 8 mile trail, the others rode with the pack horses. last two years we hiked the last four miles at night in 1 2/2 feet of snow. never had a problem. BUT we prepared for that trip! Worked out in the gym five days a week with plenty of cardio. I agree everyone is different but preparation can save you a lot of grief! Oh, by the way, I just turned 60. Not bragging, just trying to make a point about the importance of being fit.
When I went to Colorado 2 years ago I flew into Albuquerque, spent the night, rented a car and drove to Durango, by way of Chama. I took my time on the road trip to acclimatize myself to the altitude and to defrag from normal life. The next day we went into the San Juan Mts to about 10,000' then dropped down to 9000". We hunted between 9k and 10k for 6 days. I felt something(?) when we first started our trek but after about an hour I was OK for the rest of the trip.
I live at 2600' in Western NC and trained for 8 months, mostly with a 60# pack on, and had the opportunity to hike up to 6200" on a few occasions during my training period.
The year before I went out to Colorado, my wife and a friend toured the Four Corners area and she was sick for almost her whole trip. Not too ill to do things but sick enough to where it wasn't as enjoyable as it should have been.
The more training and conditioning you can do the better off you will be. Pat
Age, shape and base altitude.
When I was young and fit and living in Montana, I was all over the mountians, especially Glacier Park. Worked there for 4 summers while going to college. Altitude was no problem.
Then later a desk job in Seattle for 20 years...
Older, fatter and sea level. Seems I would get dizzy and winded just going to the 10th floor!
Now I am retired back to Montana and on a Diabetic weight loss program. My desire is to be able to go with my sons on and elk pack in next fall. Could be up to 7600' Base here is 2800'
Got me around 8500 ft. Headache, vomitting, and the thought of dying would have been a relief. The next day and alot of tylenol later, no problems.
Drinking lots of water helps also.
Really depends on the person and the amount of time they let themselves acclimate to an area. also some people who have never had issues can get it at alts that are familiar to them a lot of variables involved.
Approximately 8,000 ft. Symptoms vary depending on physical conditioning.
As a long-time mountaineer, there are two specific things you can do, and one general thing.
First the general thing. Never walk so fast that you get out of breath and can't carry on a normal conversation without panting or gasping. You might think, if I just amble along, I'm never going to get anywhere. Well, if you rush it, you're not going to get anywhere either, and you'll get further if you take it easy. Taking it easy might mean that on a steep uphill at 10,000', you might take one step and rest for 5-10 seconds before you take the next step; whatever it takes. It's very difficult to recover once you get out of breath at altitude, and you waste a lot of energy.
The first specific thing is the mountaineers rest step. I said above to amble, but there's a specific way you amble. Your don't want to be like a slow motion film that keeps moving all the time. If you're on that steep slope at 10,000', you take a step forward, uphill, and then you pause when your foot hits the ground and relax the muscles in your front leg, while your weight is still on your back foot. This allows the muscles in the forward leg to rest for a moment, before you put weight back on them. You take a little rest with every step you take, and when you take a longer rest, you shift your weight from foot to foot occasionally so each leg gets rested. It makes a big difference in the course of a day.
The second thing is power breathing. Whenever you feel the effects of altitude, you don't just exhale. You blow the air out, with a puff like you were blowing out a birthday candle, which creates a backpressure in your lungs. You do this with each breath, and you do it all day, if necessary, so long as you feel any effects of altitude. The back pressure will enable your lungs to be able to take in as much oxygen as if you were 1,000' or so lower.
Oh, and it may be some small consolation that altitude sickness is one of the few things that seem to be less of a problem as we age. I don't know why; maybe we just don't make as many rapid unnecessary movements as we get older.
I have never had altitude sickness. Almost all my adventures here go from sea level to high in the Cascades. I have also hunted in the mountains of Colorado. It might just be my youth, 27, but I have got to believe that failure to train has a lot to do with most problems. In Colorado I had a single drink around the campfire each night. Don't know if that makes a difference.
As Pat B. said "Drink lots of water". I watched my hunting partner get so sick he couldn't even walk once in Colorado. We live at 5500 ft. It wasn't altitude sickness, it was dehydration. He said he lost 10 pounds in one week. Gained it back in two days. I don't see how that is possible, even if it was water but that's what he said. All I know was he was so sick he couldn't put one foot in front of the other. We were about 4 miles from camp. I didn't lose any weight at all. Gary
I got real sick at 13,500ft this summer. I was 6 hours into doing a 14,000ft peak summit. My husband drug me back down. I felt better at 12,000ft and walked out fine. I had done a 1/2 marathon the day before and a full marathon the day before that. Both at 9,000ft. I thought that would be enought to aclimate me. I was wrong. I think they wore me out! Ha. Next time I will spend a few days messing around at 9,000ft. Maybe camp a few nights at 11,000-12,000ft. Then go for the 14er. My husband did a different 14,oooft peak the next day with no problem. I trained for 5 months, he never trained. I beat him on the 40 mile race, but he is a mule in the mountains.
Katie
QuoteIt might just be my youth, 27, but I have got to believe that failure to train has a lot to do with most problems
To a point, yes, but when it hit me I literally just stepped off of a bus and it hit me. I didn't even have time to walk or anything or exert myself.
Kind of like some people get seasick and some don't. I don't get seasick in any kind of weather or conditions.
i have seen people here in colorado get it when we were up at 10000 ft.
one remedy i give people that seems to work is having them eat about half a roll of rolaids.
and don't forget that you might be dehydrated, so drink water, even when you don't want to.
Wingnut is dead nuts on. Pulmonary Edema doesn't discriminate. It's as much to do with sudden as height differential. In shape is a priority with daily workouts and have been for decades both lifting and cardio. I even lived in Denver for awhile where I ran 16 miles once. Went elk hunting 12K feet in Colorado a few years after moving back to Texas. Flew to Denver and rented a car to the site same day. (*Yea I know but that's the point) 3 days later I was in emergency at a Houston hospital with lungs full of fluid. Expensive trip and never hunted once. JMO, be sure to climatize and take a few days to adjust while ascending. A.S. is just plain scary.
1 yr back in the 70's I worked all summer at 10 to 12k ft and on the 4th of July went to the Grand. Because of time issues I hiked down and back up in the same day, I had plenty of water was in great shape, no issues. That night while camping ,woke up vomiting and was sick for a week . I called it mountain sickness???? Is this the same stuff we are talking about ? Only with me I did the opposite. Don't know