Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Jaz on January 14, 2009, 07:51:00 PM

Title: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Jaz on January 14, 2009, 07:51:00 PM
I shot a 1 x 6 pine board at 10 yards with my Grizzly that I'm only drawing about 45 pounds.
Originally I wanted to see what the 300 grain Tusker single bevel did. It stuck through the board about an inch to an inch and a half on every shot. Nothing amazing.
I screwed on a 125 Magnus with a 20 grain broadhead adapter for total point weight of 145 grains, half as much as the other head. It repeately blew throught the board, splitting it quite dramatically. From my unscientific observations the Tusker's ferrule is dramatically impeading penetration, at least on a board.
These were shot with carbon arrows. I just got my first dozen carbons and I'm afraid I probably won't go back to wood.
Just thought I'd share.
God bless,
Jaz
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: sdpeb1 on January 14, 2009, 08:45:00 PM
300 gr with @45#. What arrow were you using? I just tried 200gr with a 75/95 goldtip and I thought it was still shooting a bit stiff but not much. I'm shooting 53#. I'm pretty new to this sport but wouldn't penetration be subject to a properly tuned arrow? What I mean is I think a 300gr would weaken the arrow, if the one you used a 145gr flew properly and then you put a 300gr on it. What do you think?
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Jaz on January 14, 2009, 08:54:00 PM
Vapor 2000 cut to 28". My arrows are not perfectly tuned. But the FOC is  around 21% so the head almost seems to steer the arrow. Yes, the tuning, or lack of, may be an issue, also.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Mo. Huntin on January 14, 2009, 09:06:00 PM
I'm not sure what to think of that.  If everything was the same weight and just had a different broad head design I would feel better about blaming a head.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: ChuckC on January 14, 2009, 09:47:00 PM
Man.  I haven't tried hunting boards yet.  Is it hard to sneak up on them ?   OK  OK   you aim for the heartwood ?
ChuckC   :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: StickBowManMI on January 14, 2009, 09:57:00 PM
ChuckC
You need to be careful field dressing the Boards. I hear that you can get splinters if you aren't carfeul!
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: bsigal on January 15, 2009, 10:06:00 AM
The boards that I've shot were really tough to skin and dress out.  Good eating though and worth the effort.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: George D. Stout on January 15, 2009, 10:23:00 AM
Skin, flesh, and bone are not boards.  A ferrule such as the Tusker or Ribtek can hang up in solid wood.  Skin will split open and allow pass through of such ferrules.   A good wood or aluminum arrow would do the same...has nothing to do with arrow material.   In addition, boards are not consistent throughout.  Plywood would be a better medium but still doesn't even closely approximate animals.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: NightHawk on January 15, 2009, 01:35:00 PM
A ferrule such as the Tusker or Ribtek can hang up in solid wood. Skin will split open and allow pass through of such ferrules.

There is a problem, Old Salt.Those type of broadheads do get hung up by an animals fat content as they pass through. The ferrules tend to grab and pull at the tissue as they pass slowing the arrow and clogging the ferrule
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: ChuckC on January 15, 2009, 01:47:00 PM
There is no comparison between board and flesh.  For a lot of reasons.  What you did was a good test.  Shows you are interested and concerned.  I am glad you shared the results with us.  

Try that same test with a blunt and enough bow.  I have seen the blunt outperform broadheads in the past, in solid backstop tests, as it just pops a hole in the substrate and there is no  or almost no resistance for the rest of the projectile to slow it down.

Lots of Tuskers and Ribteks and similar heads have gone clean thru critters.  We have discussed what probably are the "best features" of a broadhead, in terms of pennetration capability, but we haven't drawn a line at what is "enough".   I thnk that is an unanswerable question because there are so many factors involved.
ChuckC
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Brian Krebs on January 15, 2009, 02:49:00 PM
George  "Skin, flesh, and bone are not boards."

Yeah? What about woodchucks ????
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: George D. Stout on January 15, 2009, 03:17:00 PM
Them neither....  :thumbsup:    ;)   but those little critters are tough.  

The last deer I killed was with a Ribtek that went through with little effort from a forty-five pound longbow.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Jaz on January 15, 2009, 03:21:00 PM
I know that boards and animals are not the same. I wasn't implying that. I was was just sharing my observations. There is 10" of snow here, it's 5 degrees in the sunshine and I'm bored. So I shot a board that was laying by my target in the basement, just for fun. I do believe, however, that an arrow/broadhead combo that easily penetrates a board should have no problem penetrating a whitetail scapula.
And a good board comes in handy after  a day of bowfishing for carp. One needs a good board to to prepare the world famous "carp on a board" recipe that everyone knows!
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Orion on January 15, 2009, 03:46:00 PM
Jaz:  Pretty big change in point weight.  Did both of the arrows have good flight?  A little wiggle in either one can greatly retard penetration, as could an ever so slight change in angle on the board, or the grain in the wood, etc.  In short, lots of other things could explain your results.  

Actually, I think you were shooting the wrong type of bow.  For that type of game, you should be shooting a "board bow."  :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: STEVE R. on January 15, 2009, 07:41:00 PM
Jaz that is exactly what I thought when I read your thread. Just an observation. Now all these offended knowitalls will try to tell you everything you have done wrong, when all the heck you did was shoot a dogone board. amazing how easy it is to start a argument on this sight .
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Swamp Pygmy on January 15, 2009, 07:58:00 PM
I'm personally of the opinion that all of that kind stuff matters. Just probably not enough to make a difference, but if we're actually talking whether it impedes penetration or not I'd bet it does. Especially bone. A solid leg or shoulder hit.

Theoretically the less resistance it has the better it will penetrate. It's a pretty good question though considering the premium we put on sharp blades and thin carbons. Few people take into consideration what a wide ferrule might do. Especially a ribbed ferrule like some I've seen.

I'm sure they work fine, and it doesn't really matter though. I really think people excessively worry about these kinda things.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: ChuckC on January 15, 2009, 08:11:00 PM
Easy Steve... we're bored and having fun too.
ChuckC    :knothead:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on January 16, 2009, 12:20:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Brian Krebs:
George  "Skin, flesh, and bone are not boards."

Yeah? What about woodchucks ????
I think that completely depends on how much wood the woodchuck chucks. However, in the absense of knowing how much wood a woodchuck would chuck, I'll defer to George's expertise.   :saywhat:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Brian Krebs on January 16, 2009, 01:43:00 AM
Hey man: I was like totally serious !

  :rolleyes:    :archer:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: STEVE R. on January 16, 2009, 07:00:00 AM
all the man said was if you want to kill a board you would be better off shooting it with a magnus than a tusker. I really would like to see a penatration target made to set a penatration standard, like an amo or such, that way a person could would be able to make the best arrow set up regardless of what other people claim. just a thought.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: George D. Stout on January 16, 2009, 12:03:00 PM
It really does depend, JRW, if the woodchuck, would chuck, all the wood he could chuck.    :saywhat:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Bjorn on January 16, 2009, 12:10:00 PM
Penetration has been covered, more than a little by Dr. Penetration (Ashby) himself. Have a look at his report on this site.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: jrchambers on January 16, 2009, 09:29:00 PM
jaz i can see how that tusker would hang up, and maybe both arows flew well but the heavy one was just too heavy for optimal preformance out of your setup, and yes evry one is right boards are not flesh but neither is bone, animals are as inconsitant as it gets when you talk about densities.  hopefully with a single bevel tusker that it will have rotated enough in a scapula to open a lane for the ferrule,
 
geez steeve thats a pretty strong post, must have a pretty big chip on that shoulder,  i thought this was a fairly civil thread,  your just going to get it closed and we wont get to see any development im sure jaz would like to further his experiment, and i would like to hear about it.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: ChuckC on January 16, 2009, 10:16:00 PM
Jaz  that board recipe is pretty good actually.
ChuckC  :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Guru on January 17, 2009, 07:31:00 AM
easy boys....   ;)
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Charlie Lamb on January 17, 2009, 07:56:00 AM
"amazing how easy it is to start a argument on this sight"

You're kidding...right?   :confused:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Terry Green on January 17, 2009, 08:30:00 AM
What Charlie said.

Also, nice post Jaz.....and yes, regardless, any test like that will tell you something....and I'm sure this one did.

I did some testing long ago....and I'm still using  what I learned.  I learned that I can run a wide 4 blade slap through a whitetail time and time again.....so, that's what I'm going to do regardless.     :D

Take care sir...and hope to hunt with you again sometime.   :wavey:
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Guru on January 17, 2009, 08:35:00 AM
Ya don't need a PHD to figure things out either....
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Terry Green on January 17, 2009, 08:41:00 AM
BTW...I'm still waiting, after all these years, for George to show us a dead animal.      :D
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Swamp Pygmy on January 17, 2009, 12:20:00 PM
Ouch Terry, the point on that one was sharp! j/k lol.
Title: Re: Pine board penetration observations
Post by: Jaz on January 17, 2009, 03:03:00 PM
Howdy Terry. Maybe I'll see ya again at the PBS banquet.